UKC

Of course the best sea cliff climbing in the country is on Pabbay, Mingulay and Lundy but there's also the eternal Pembroke vs Gogarth debate. Cranking hard on solid, well protected, mostly single pitch limestone vs ledge shuffling in abject terror on crumbling, gearless, multipitch cheese. I know it's not as simple as that, there are plenty of adventures to be had in Pembroke and there's a reasonable amount of solid, hard cranking at Gogarth, but I think most people would agree that Gogarth generally wins in the 'grip' stakes.

On the whole, I prefer Gogarth as it's more adventurous and there's also more variety. That said, I'm off to Pembroke for the second weekend running as at this stage of the season it's useful to rack us some hard but safe cranking, plus there are some routes I'd like to do which I didn't get to try last weekend.

What do other people think and why?

As a straw poll, like = Gogarth, dislike = Pembroke.

In reply to Misha:

I vote for Pembroke, but it feels wrong to select 'Dislike' when you actually mean 'Like'!

In reply to Misha:

The most memorable routes: Gogarth. But as a place: Pembroke!

In reply to Misha:

pembroke. more variety, more cliffs, better scenery, and I'v never quite seen the attraction of rock that crumbles away underneath you . Some great routes at gogarth but not a place I want to return to again and again

In reply to Misha:

I'd have to disagree with your assessment of Gogarth - there really aren't that many ledges (aside from the belays), and there is plenty of gear. Whether you'd want to test 50% of it in isolation is another question! I think the snapiness of holds and sheer exposure of Gogarth is part of its character - tops it for me by a mile. Plus there is a good cafe at the top for when its all over. My favorite place for sea cliffs by along way (although I haven't been to any of your non-Welsh alternatives, only Swanage!)

In reply to Misha: See link to Cornish Climbing Festival and make your judgements based on very solid evidence.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=642253

In reply to Misha:
Pembroke world class. Gogarth very good but overrated (as is Lundy - absurd to bracket it with Mingulay and Pabbay anyway)

In reply to ianstevens:
Ledge shuffling is just a humorous way to describe pokey trad which is bold but not as hard as what you'd do on good gear. Of course Gogarth can be both steep and reasonably well protected - Main Cliff for example.

In reply to aostaman:
Yeah Cornish granite is good as well, though if given a hypothetical choice I'd opt for Lundy as there are more 'big' routes there and it's a very special place. Or perhaps it's just because I haven't been there anywhere as often. Anyway, no right and wrong answers with these things of course.

In reply to Misha:

I think if I had the luxury of going more than occasionly, I'd run out of new stuff I could do at Gogarth much sooner than the whole of Pembroke. But that's being unfair, because Gogarth is a reasonable base for much of Snowdonia whereas Pembroke is just Pembroke.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Spot on!

Pembroke for overall venue, beaches, tea shops, pubs, swimming, kayaking, waterskiing, walking and generally dossing - some epic routes at Gogarth mind!

In reply to Misha:

Your summary is not how I see it at all.

Here is my subjective take

My first sea cliff climbing was a Gogarth. It 's all along time ago now but I loved it. The only route with poor rock i have climbed there is Mouse Trap. I have not been into any areas since with poor rock, that of course does limit your choice.

I cut my teeth at Castell Helen with Light House Arete, Pel, Rap and Blanco. I also did DWH, Mouse Trap and Gogarth fairly early on. I had a summer in North Wales which was one of the few times i ever really had any climbing ability. I did Strand, True Moments's Free Bird's, Hypodermic, Emulator, The Moon, Big Groove, Backed of Positron and I've done the top Pitch of Citadel. In general I was really happy on the cliffs at Gogarth. The day I did the top pitch of Citadel my partner aid climbed the first pitch of Mamoth as the cliff was wet, the sea rough and the tide rising. I only felt bored as it took so long


Pembroke I've never felt as secure. Army dreamers and the Arrow I never really trusted wires in those knobbly cracks. Ironically I felt better on the harder routes the summer of my climbing career. I lead Sun Lover Direct, The Butcher, Star Gate, Bloody Sunday, and some other stuff in hunt's man's leap. I only felt really relaxed on Herod. The runners seemed better in the harder routes but they were steeper so it was more about not pumping out which weakness as i had twig arms

But in summary Gogarth for me. Less scary, bigger better routes

Your mileage will vary

Ok i wasn't completely relaxed on The Big groove. But we didn't have a guide book "I can see a big groove I'll climb towards it". My second, despite having lead White Wall the week before was too nervous and scared to help much. But mainly I was developed a fever mid route due to us drinking contaminated water cheeky camping in the pass. So by the top i was delirious talking to the rock in my head

In reply to Misha:


Fair enough - I think that's a fair review of the place. Just depends what you're into I suppose! I often find that as I'm a bit weak, boldness is my way up the grades (plus I love getting scared).

In reply to John Clinch (Ampthill):
<So by the top i was delirious talking to the rock in my head>

Lovely expression, very evocative of being 'out there'

In reply to Misha:

Different beasts hey. Pembroke will always appeal more to the consumer climber due to the ease of access, simple sporty style of climbing, and sheer quantity. Buy despite the available adventures to be had at pembroke (darkness at noon ranks high on my adventure list, and there are clearly bigger ones to be had), i've always found that the trickier approaches to main cliff for example, and the heather bashing make routes at gogarth a bit more memorable. Plus I just really prefer the main cliff quartzite to limestone in of any type