UKC

Watched a programme - BBC 4 9pm last night - about this historic loco. Most of the footage was on the footplate.

Unlike modern railway engines a steam loco was almost like a living, breathing animal involving teamwork. The very movements of the driver and fireman almost seems to me to be artistic. Move the regulator, open a valve, look out of the window, blow the whistle, shovel coal(a skill in itself)

I remember back in the days of steam as kids we would wave as the train went past. Never was our wave not returned.

In reply to FesteringSore:
I also watched it with interest as I was there when it was filmed. The false start from Bridgnorth appeared to us as just a delay but watching the driver trying to sort the problem in such a calm way was brilliant. I could see that many people watching the programme would dismiss it as dull & boring but I thought it was great and I learned a lot about driving such a beast. Also no annoying music - just the sounds of steam.

In reply to FesteringSore:


I remember, in our youth, that the Flying Scotsman was something very special, with a mystique all of its own. We lived for a while in the early 50s near the main line through Knebworth and would see it frequently on its journey to and from Scotland. Sometimes we'd be on Knebworth Station platform as it went thundering through, wreathed in smoke and steam. It was particularly impressive coming from the north, as the stretch from Stevenage was a long straight and you could see it coming from about three miles away.

In reply to FesteringSore:

I used to go to school on a steam train. It's romantic now to look back on those days, but we quickly forget things like getting dirty clothes in particular having to change your grubby collar at the end of a journey, getting dirty hands from every surface you touched, having to close the windows when the train went through a tunnel and the worst of all getting soot in your eye - quite a common occurrence.

In reply to Trangia:


All part of the magic and nostalgia, surely

In reply to Trangia:


Yes, it's as well to remember this, and not to exaggerate the 'romance' of it. I remember that when we 'went up to London' from Hertfordshire, we'd come back really dirty. As you say, one's hands and collar were black. As was the whole of London. Indeed my memories of London in the 1950s are in black and white, not colour, because all the buildings were black and all the businessmen in their bowlers were dressed in black too.

I also watched a Youtube recently showing the Flying Scotsman in the sixties(when it was owned by Alan Pegler) recreating its non stop run from London to Edinburgh.

Got me thinking as to what the driver and fireman would have done if they got caught short.
I'd also be interested to know what they do nowadays.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

... not to mention the smog that was quite common in the winter in the '50's and early '60's!

In reply to FesteringSore:

Yes, I enjoyed that. Heavy metal in motion.

I used to meet the guy who used to own the Flying Scotsman, Alan Pegler. I worked for the Ffestiniog Railway and he had a place nearby. He regularly came to see what we where up to. Lovely bloke and to think he saved the old girl from the scrapies torch.

In reply to John Stainforth:


I remember the Great Smog of 1952. I was 8 and was with my mum and dad when they drove up to London. Going across Westminster Bridge the smog was so dense that my dad, who was driving, couldn't see the road or kerb. My mum got out and walked along the kerb with her hand on the windscreen directing my dad.

In reply to FesteringSore:


Of course, when the non-stop run was done as a scheduled service they didn't have cameras on the footplate so I wouldn't be at all surprised if occasional use was made of a handy container which then got chucked out of the cab. The bit of the railway alongside the track isn't called the cess for no reason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_United_Kingdom_railway_terms#/med... I believe this may still happen on some long-distance freight workings which involve few, if any, suitable intermediate stopping points.

IIRC they were using the corridor tenders for the recreation run - as they did for the scheduled service, in fact - which allowed two crews to work the non-stop run in shifts. I don't know about using the corridor to access a loo if caught short; I suspect the shifts were short enough for that not to be much of an issue. Remember as well that working on the footplate was both busy and involved physical effort. I don't know about you, but I'm much less likely to suddenly need the loo if I'm working hard, it's when I take a rest that the need asserts itself (hence, perhaps, the occasional threads on here about poos on belay ledges!) Also, a combination of hard work and heat means you sweat more which tends to reduce the need to pee.

In reply to Martin W:

Thanks. Quite interesting. I now recall hearing about the corridor tenders.

On another point, what system do they now use on single track line to ensure no conflicting traffic? I presume the token system is a bit too antiquated now.

In reply to FesteringSore:
Heritage railways like the SVR still use electric token instruments interlocked with the bell telegraph instruments and the lever frame which operates the signals and points. As it happens, I'm told that the southern part of the SVR actually uses a different system called tokenless block which relies on track circuits to detect occupancy of a single track block section. OTOH I'm pretty sure that there are some low traffic sections of single track on the network railway which are still operated using physical tokens. UPDATE: just checked and the Heart of Wales line for one still works on electric token instruments, although they are controlled from one central signal box rather than the signal box at each station.

The West Highland Line uses RETB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Electronic_Token_Block which is fundamentally the same idea as physical tokens but uses radio to allocate and retrieve electronic tokens. There is no signalling on the line, apart from fixed distants on the approach to crossing points (IIRC you can see one of these alongside the line from the road as you approach Tyndrum from the North).

More modern signalling systems such as ERTMS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Rail_Traffic_Management_System are different again - ERTMS doesn't actually have lineside signals at all, it's all done by radio signalling direct in to the cab. That theoretically also allows an even greater degree of interlocking with the locomotive's control systems than is currently provided by AWS and TPWS (in the UK; other countries use different systems).

By the way, having now watched the start of the SVR programme, I do think the driver is being a bit of a bad workman blaming his tools. Flying Scotsman used to haul trains of twelve or more coaches happily up the 1:105 gradient through Gasworks Tunnel on departure from Kings Cross, after all. And after its recent overhaul it is almost literally a brand new locomotive (it was something of a 'Trigger's Broom' throughout its working life anyway - as were a great many other steam locos). I suspect he just had it in slightly the wrong gear, and he might also have been a little unlucky in the position the pistons and valves had come to rest in when the loco was buffered up to the train (a bit like getting caught with your pedals in the wrong place for an uphill getaway on your fixie!) It seemed to work OK once the NRM's traction supervisor explained to him how to do it. As an SVR volunteer driver he probably wouldn't have had a great deal of experience on FS (unless he also drives for one of the mainline steam operators) and, as was suggested in the OP, driving a steam locomotive well does require a feel for the particular characteristics of the class, and sometimes of the locomotive itself.

For those who might be interested, the programme is being repeated on New Year's Day with the voiceover track removed, so all you get is the ambient sound/footplate chat.

In reply to FesteringSore:

Get in touch with your inner train nerd and diesels are living, breathing monsters as well.
I take my boys to the local deisel gala and they love it just as much when a Deltic roars and makes the ground shake!

In reply to Martin W:

Glad to hear there are a few train nuts on here.

My boy is a signalling engineer for Network Rail. Surprising how much the staff are into the history of the railways.

In reply to Martin W:
I always thought that the regulator was an analogue device where its position reflected the state of the valve. In this film on Scotsman it appears more to be an indexed device where push = open & pull = close - more like a motorbike gearbox. Anyone got any ideas about this.

In reply to FesteringSore:

I live near the ELR heritage railway. When they first ran the rebuilt loco earlier in the year, the town and all the stops, and all the fields in between were rammed with sightseers and photographers. The local schools used it as a talking point. My kids did poetry based on Auden's "Night Mail". There were some stats in the local paper about how many millions it brought into the local economy. All from it just chugging up and down a few times. I believe it is coming back at some point, as a thank you to the chaps in Bury who rebuilt it.

In reply to alan moore:

>

I'm not really into trains but I worked for BR in the 80's and being in the engine compartment of a diesel train as it thundered along was quite an experience.

In reply to aln:

I worked for BR 1978 to 2001, being in the guards van of a freight train was the most boring experience I've ever had.