/ Hydration on the go

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Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
I have a couple of long races coming up at the end of the spring, including my first Ultra (34 miles). I've generally used a combination of gels and water on longer runs, up to marathon distance. I use High 5 gels with Caffeine and these work well for me.

My concern, for the Ultra in particular, is that water and gels alone won't work for the replacement of lost salts in the body.

I am working on a different approach to feeding on the go, and some more solid type foods will replace some of the salts, but does anyone have any other tips around feeding on the go. I keep hearing about Shot Bloks, so will give them a trial, and Chia seeds (huh?)

Ta

M
drunken monkey - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:
Hi mate - I use either High-5 or Tailwind powders in my water to help with calorie and salt intake on longer runs.

I've tried the shot bloks but didn't like them. I'm assuming that for your ultra there will be bag drops for you to leave food and drink. For ultra races I try and run (Carry) with as little as possible, pick up supplies at bag drops then eat whilst walking up any steep hills.

Something I've heard a couple of folk recommend last year, was sushi rice balls - they are decent for both savoury and sweet. Haven't tried myself though.

Hope this helps. Good luck your race, my first race of this year is in march.
Post edited at 09:15
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to drunken monkey:

Thanks - the tablets might be a really useful thin to try.

I will be going as light as is practical and I do have support.

Oddly enough, to add to your sushi rice balls, I heard of people taking cold boiled potatoes...
drunken monkey - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

This is what I used to supplement food intake last year - I found it quite easy on my stomach and not overpowering/sickly in taste either:

http://www.tailwindnutrition.co.uk/category-16.html

Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to drunken monkey:

Thanks - I have time to experiment, so will give them a go. I know I get on well with malt loaf too...
dread-i - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

I tried shot blocks, and found them very chewy. You need to wash them down, which is not very practical if you're running and breathing hard as well.

I've used SIS Hydro tabs on ultras. Throw a couple in your camel back and they fizz away and give things a nice lemony flavor.

I for food, its nice to have something different from sweet cloying foods. (I once had a strange craving for veg samosa with chilli sauce.) I don't really get on with butties, the bread is too dry and you cant take a bite and throw it in a pocket for10 mins then have another. A tube of primula or tartex might be a good addition, as you can eat small amounts with no mess, though I've not tried it.
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to dread-i:

Thank you

I like the idea of the tube. I am going to have to get into the habit of eating on the go, rather than just taking a gel. I have never been good at breathing/running with a mouth full of food. Time to learn.

I recall using SIS products some years ago and not having any issues with them except they felt particularly sweet or harsh in taste. Can try again though...
bentley's biceps - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

I make sure I eat regularly and just use water or dilute cordial. I generally go with pork pies or similar, basically something I like, and eat small amount frequently. Not very scientific, but I have found gels etc upset my digestion. It's worked for me on everything up to the Lakeland 100.

There is also a good argument to avoid gels on longer events and train yourself to use your own energy stores.

Endurance Store blog is worth an explore: https://www.theendurancestore.com/blogs/the-endurance-store/metabolism-and-endurance-performance
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to bentley's biceps:

Thank you very much!
alisonk on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

Try using http://www.otesports.co.uk/ as the carb drink is ph-neutral so easy on the stomach and the tabs aren't sweet. They are bit more expensive but in the case of the protein recovery products the whey protein is a very good quality. They also do very nice flapjacks and protein bars.
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to alisonk:

Thanks for the tip.
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to bentley's biceps:

> There is also a good argument to avoid gels on longer events and train yourself to use your own energy stores.


Just having a read of this now. Very interesting...
1
RX-78 on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

for long cycles I used to use chia seeds (or frog spawn as my family called it), you mix them with water and stir, only a small amount of seeds is required to make a usable goo, but it is tasteless so I used to stir in a bit of runny honey. I guess you could add in a drop of soy sauce etc instead.
Curry - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

I get on well with bananas, cold buttered herby new potatoes in a zip loc bag, watermelon and plain crisps. It's an eating contest!

I've read that making sure you're mixing up the types of sugar means that you're able to absorb more g of carbs, maltodextrin, glucose etc, and not relying on one source. I like the Wiggle gels, £9.99 for 20, wouldn't want to go 6 hours on them though.

Eating for the pace you're going at is another thing, I like the cashew Nakd bars when walking up a hill, and gels for when I'm going at a more steady clip. Having a savoury and a sweet option available to hand is also key.

Found a simple riceball recipe in Jason Koop's book Training Essentials for Ultrarunning, soy sauce and honey or bacon and egg, both really palatable.
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to RX-78:

Is that something you eat prior to your long cycle or on the go?
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Curry:

Thanks - another good perspective, and I found a potato fan!
galpinos on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

Not an ultra expert but have done plenty of Mountain Marathons and the High Peak Marathon a few times.

Hydration - nuun, https://nuunlife.com/ There product range has increased and what I use in now called nuun active, used to be salts only, now contains 1g of dextrose. I prefer to get the calories via food/gels etc so I know what I've had.

Food - I used to swear by SIS gels but they seem to taste a bit harsh now, I also use Torq but they require more water to get down. Shot Bloks are fine but little more than glorified jelly cubes in my opinion, my sugar hit/mental uplift comes from Jelly Babies. My running partner and I often struggle with all the sweet stuff after a while so we normally have a couple of LAMM pittas*. These are cheese and ham pittas, but they have been microwaved just enough so the cheese has melted and sticks the whole thing together. Once cooled, you can then tear bit off, stuff them back into pockets etc and they don't fall apart like a sandwich would. Good for Scottish Winter too!

Total aside but I watched one of the Salomon TV films about Kilian Jornet attempting a skimo/running day of 9000m/77km and his nutrition plan was four snickers.

*Named by someone on the FRA Forum
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to galpinos:

I remember climbing with Smiler Cuthbertson one day. At lunchtime I got out my drinks, sandwiches, chocolate bars, crisps etc. Smiler opened a plastic box and took out 2 pies. That was all!
ianstevens - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

> Oddly enough, to add to your sushi rice balls, I heard of people taking cold boiled potatoes...

Cold roast potatoes are miles tastire though. Whack a load of salt on them too
1
drunken monkey - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to ianstevens:

I like the sound of that!
More-On - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

To pull several answers in to one I use SIS gels (including the electrolyte and caffeine ones) and cold roast potatoes for marathons (or longer), as well as climbing.
Add in the odd bit of hard cheese and/or sausage and you're good to go!
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to More-On:

Cold roasties!

Where do your salts come from? Is that the SIS gels?
More-On - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

As Ian said before me put some salt on the potatoes, but yes to the majority from the electrolyte gels. You get both energy and salts that way and I find them more palatable than electrolyte powders in your water. Plus there is no faff with putting powder or tablets in your bottles or bladder. Works for me but you might find the gels too salty - I can forgive this as I also know exactly how much electrolyte I've had vs taking it in liquid format.
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to More-On:

I have to try the roast spuds approach.

Thanks for the contribution.
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to All:

A quick question to the thread in general on a related theme - pace.

What kind of pace do you do for an Ultra? Example - I'm a sub 90 min half marathon, but for a trail Ultra would be aiming at something closer to 9-10 min miles rather than 7. What are other experiences out there?
Curry - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

I'm also (just) sub 90 for a half, it would depend entirely on the terrain/profile of the ultra, I did the Highland Fling in 2015, 53 miles and 6000ft approx of climbing, I averaged 10 minute miles, most of the climbing was in the latter half and I suffered for it.

I've done Jedburgh Three Peaks three times, 37 miles and 4000ft and I averaged about 8/9 min/miles, 90% of the ascent was the Eildons in the middle.

I'd try and go with your sustainable pace as much as possible, walking the hills. Going over your threshold too early puts you in a hole.
Rampikino - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Curry:

Yes - that sounds very much in line with my approach. Thank you.
Dave Kerr - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

> I have a couple of long races coming up at the end of the spring, including my first Ultra (34 miles). I've generally used a combination of gels and water on longer runs, up to marathon distance.

I'm not sure you need to think about changing too much for an extra 8 miles. Not unless the terrain is much hillier meaning you'll be out for hours more. How long do you expect the ultra to take?

I also don't think you need to worry too much about the whole electrolyte thing. I have a vest with 2x 500ml bottles and pop a zero tab in with maybe every third or 4th bottle. I'm not entirely convinced that makes a difference.

As for the food, I think you're on the right lines with trying to eat more 'proper food' particularly in the early stages. I try to start like this but often find I need to switch to gels and jelly babies later in the day. Whatever you decide to try use your long training runs to test it.

Bwox - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

> I keep hearing about Shot Bloks

They're a bit more manageable than gels, but as mentioned above quite chewy, which I've found a bit awkward for running. Better for cycling, where there's less jolting around when trying to breathe. I've also found them feeling 'present' in my stomach somehow, again when running, though that might just be due to having not drunk anything when taking them.
steveriley - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Bwox:

I'd go along with that - if you're working hard they can be a bit chewy to get down. If you're taking your time on a big climb for example they can give you something to chew and distract yourself with. Jelly babies I can chomp at higher efforts without a drink. I like buttered hot cross buns in small chunks for proper food, but they don't really address the salts.
iusedtoclimb - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

I use salted peanuts, marbars and caffeing gels - I also suck Nuun tablets and only drink water

At feeding stations I eat anything and everything and like a coffee if available

On some of my longer training runs I go passed a couple of farms where the kids make cakes/flapjacks and sell them using an honesty box. That and a bottle of water is a nice treat.
Stig - on 09 Jan 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

Um, does this ultra not have feed stations??

I have only done two ultras (41 and 53) but didn't carry any food. Just two gels, a powerbar or similar, some sweets, (ie I don't necessarily use them) and a small amount of water.

I eat and drink plenty at the feed stations. Salt-wise I've really appreciated pork pies or scotch eggs, and sometimes crisps.

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