UKC

What's the usual descent after the Mittellegi Ridge these days? I read western flank is prone to rockfall...

In reply to GStone:

I had two pairs of friends summit last year, one had a total epic/benightment descending the west flank, the others got down super fast via the south ridge.

In reply to GStone:

South ridge is the normal route, did it last summer. But I thought it was the similar standard as the MR and took about the same time.

In reply to Woolly:

That presumably involves going to the Eigerjoch and then descending to the Berglihutte?

In reply to GStone:

An interesting article about the West Flank here :

http://www.summitpost.org/eiger-west-flank/743270

It does NOT sound appealing!

In reply to Simon4:


There are two Eigerjoch and you need to traverse the ridge between them, which is good but graded AD. Then the glacier to the Monchjoch hut, normally, or the Berglihutte (have you been, I have mild fascination with it).

In reply to MG:


Presumably hence the names on the map, Sudliches Eigerjoch (without the umlaut!) and Nordliches.


Ah, I see. Looking at it in more detail, it seems clear that you could make a parallel traverse across the glacier from the Sud Joch (in good visibility, I dread to think of trying to do it without clear sight or tracks), then a descending traverse to the Monchjoch hut.


Not done it, not climbed the Eiger. Though the Mittellegi might be a suitable objective this Summer, after a couple of other objectives are achieved (if they are!). Certainly the descent looks as serious as the climb, especially as it would mostly be on unknown ground.

In reply to GStone:

Hi GStone

In 2013 after an ascent of the Mittellegi Ridge, my buddies and I descended via the South Ridge (graded AD) which is probably the Voie Normale nowadays and the guides would not go near the West Flank as it is very loose/dangerous most summers. Although the South Ridge is probably the normal route nowadays, it should not be underestimated, especially crossing the North and South Eigerjochs which have some rather tricksome climbing and it is rather a loooong way to the Mönchsjoch Hütte!

There is quite a good description here:

http://cosleyhouston.com/eiger.htm

Hope this helps!

Dave

In reply to GStone:

Did it in 2003, up the mitt and down the south ridge, it's a nice route but expect a long day out

In reply to BALD EAGLE:

I think Dave, as with most alpine routes, the West Flank is very conditions dependent. My diary records the summit to Eigergletscher as three hours. Now this might not sit well with those that have had an epic on it... or more likely those who've heard horror stories of loose rock, stonefall, difficult route finding etc second or third hand, but the fact is that for me it was fine - we were sunning ourselves on the Eigergletscher café terrace by mid morning. I'd say that if conditions are favourable then it's a good choice, if they aren't... well, it's not. For info, the rock was completely dry and I remember some orange painted steel abseil stanchions, though I have no recollection of using any of them. Moving together all the way, zero rockfall. We did meet two very heavily laden young men plodding UP the West Flank - now that didn't look much fun!

In reply to ashpreston:


Rather the impression I had gathered, a big day, that will leave you pretty spent at the end.

In reply to jon:

Well with all due respect Jon, to judge by reports both generally on the net and UKC specific comments, it seems as if your experience is the exception rather than the rule.

In reply to Simon4:

Like I said Simon, conditions. With all due respect, of course.

In reply to GStone:

Thanks chaps.

I'll start studying the south ridge.

I know someone who attempted that descent and had en epic which resulted in getting airlifted off as the weather turned!

In reply to jon:


Ha ha good effort Jon but was this descent of the West Flank in the 21st century or the last?!
I remember going to a talk given by Kenton Cool and he said that his descent down the West Flank was one of his most harrowing days in the mountains...
Cheers
Dave

In reply to GStone:


To the best of my very hazy memory from the Eiger summit it is an easy plod down the South Ridge for a short while until you come to very steep rock. From here you do a couple of raps from the 2 equipped belay stations to reach easy but loose ground in descent for quite a long way before you reach the col before the first Eigerjoch. This Eigerjoch is pretty easy to scramble over but the second Joch had some pretty tricksome and exposed climbing with possibly the odd bolt to protect? I certainly remember a crux stepping over a exposed gap with a fearsome pull (maybe VS 4c in big boots + tired) onto superb rock before easier climbing to it's summit. Then a straightforward snow plod along a snowy ridge before descending down a wee way before a short pull up to the Monchjoch hut and salvation! I think the whole descent took us about 6 hours and one of us said it felt like doing a third of the Cuillin Ridge with snow! The classic traverse is an epic day out though and one of the best in the Alps...
Cheers
Dave

In reply to BALD EAGLE:
9 August 1994, Dave. But the nature of it is that it doesn't progressively change with climate change - as for instance the Gouter Couloir does as its permafrost thaws and releases tonnes of rubble into it. It changes over the course of the season. Which is why I said 'if the conditions are favourable'. For what it's worth, the mountain was so dry that there was no snow ridge at the top of the Mittellegi - the N face ice had shrunk down and left a sort of U-shaped channel between it and its underlying rock ridge which we just walked up with no need for crampons, occasionally getting glimpses down the N face. So mundane was it, that I only realised that I'd reached the summit when I started going down! It was in a way a relief as I detest snow ridges, but at the same time was far less satysfying! I wonder how many of the posters on this thread and the others like it, who decry the W flank, have ever set foot on it or are they just unwittingly contributing to yet more internet lore?

As for Kenton, what does he know....?

In reply to jon:


74 and 90 for me

The AC guides at the time did not have a topo of the descent, so we followed our instincts both times, and both times doing some abseiling when drawn into a cul de sac. These abs should be avoidable with good luck or routefinding.
Luckily both times were under a reasonable snow cover but in 1990 there was a fair bit of downclimbing easy, soundish but slippery limestone slabs. All OK as long as you did not fall off.

The mid 90's AC guide topo was a revelation. Oh, so thats where we should have gone

Be wary of some topos on line as they are for a "winter" descent line which goes a lot further towards the Monch, the usual summer line is fairly close to the NW ridge, but does a big loop to avoid the crag band running across from the upper section of the Geneva Pillar.

Jon, regarding the knife edge ridge, the Mittellegi is the most exposed I have been on.
I wonder which is the scariest in the Alps?

In reply to Rick Graham:

Ha, for me the E ridge of Liskamm, no question! Tightrope walking right on the horizontal razor-sharp top, impossible on that occasion to get down below it due to the nature of the wind/storm the previous day.

In reply to jon:


Wowser no snow ridge on top of the Mittellegi! That must have been a one helluva hot and dry summer...

In reply to Rick Graham:


A great call of Lyskamm from Jon but the Rochefort Arête and the NE Ridge of Wyssi Frau on the Bluemlisalphorn traverse are also quite "out there" and deliciously exposed! Though some might say scary...
Cheers
Dave

In reply to BALD EAGLE:

I found the E ridge of Lyskamm far narrower and more sustained than the Rochefort arête. The N ridge of the Gran Paradiso linking to the Piccolo is also quite something. I am perhaps odd in enjoying snow aretes. The Bionassay is on the list. How does that compare? Will look out for the Bluemlisalphorn.

In reply to GStone:

Sorry for the hijack onto scary ridges, perhaps someone should start another thread.

Descending the Rocher de Reposire once on the GJ was quite scary under heavy snow.

Heavily mushroomed and corniced, had to plough down unsure which side you could break through, conditions, eh Jon?

In reply to jon:
There is also some pics of the GJ traverse that look distressingly scary.

Edit, but not on UKC, I think it was in a Martin Moran magazine article.

In reply to GStone:

Back on topic,

What about descending the Mittellegi?

In reply to Rick Graham:


Well, though I'm pretty sure the OP means descent FROM the Mittelegi, it's interesting to note that although the Japanese climber Yuko Saki and his guides Amatter, Brawand and Steuri are credited with the first ascent of the Mittelegi in 1921, the ridge was first descended by M von Kuffner with Biener, Burgener and Kalbermatten in 1885!

In reply to Rick Graham:


Can I add the ridge to the summit of the Aiguille Verte from the Grande Rocheuse? Also a knife edge crest on the Diable arrete of Mont Blanc du Tacul?

(After all, the Mittellegi has already been comprehensively covered, so why not hijack?)

In reply to jon:


Indeed, conditions are everything.

I was well impressed with a native of Uzbeckistan, when he revealed that he clearly understood what "with all due respect meant". He was also sharp enough to instantly, without any explanation at all, to understand what the old Yes Minister phrase "that would be a very COURAGEOUS decision minister" meant, which had him in cascades of laughter and left him with the intention of using it in the very next meeting with his boss.

That is real, near-native, command of English!

In reply to GStone:

Hijack away! I've got my descent route covered now.

In reply to rif:

That looks like a very COURAGEOUS ridge to descend.

Where is it?

In reply to Simon4:

Low on the Innominata. Absolutely not an attractive descent option, though no doubt somebody has skied it by now.

In reply to GStone:

I came down the West Flank some years back. Little difficulty but an enormous amount of scree. One small rock band we abbed for speed but most of the time it was simply walking or scrambling. Took about two/three hours I recall.

The angle is generally easy so little risk of rockfall unless you have parties above you on some of the steeper rock bands I'd have said.

In reply to Simon4:


I had a similar trip down it. Didn't see any ab points though and thought route finding was tricky; the 'cairns' tended to be tiny!

In reply to rif:


I have always regarded the Innominata with a vast (possibly excessive), respect. It seems ferociously remote and serious to me.


Probably. But then what hasn't some superhero skied. (Some of the superheroes are even still alive)

In reply to Andy Say:


Well in the event that I do in fact attempt it this Summer, I am still inclined to go for the South ridge descent.

In reply to Simon4:

South Ridge? It's the way all the guides go; which might tell you something......

In reply to Andy Say:


Not all the guides, Andy.

In reply to jon:


All 6 guides descended via the South Ridge with their clients when I stayed in the hut in August 2013!
So shall we agree that "most" of the guides descend via the South Ridge nowadays?! Cheers Dave

In reply to BALD EAGLE:


No, I think 'not all' is probably more accurate.

In reply to jon:


Hmmmm I think "not all but most" covers all bases quite nicely...

In reply to BALD EAGLE:

I'm not sure how you can say that on the basis of just one (I'm assuming here!) ascent and six guides. Of all the guides I know around Grindelwald and Chamonix, they nearly all think as I do - straight down when conditions are right or s ridge when they're not. However, I think Simon should settle it by descending the w flank this summer.

In reply to BALD EAGLE:

Just tried to edit that but left it too late. Reading it back I realise it was a bit of an exaggeration to say nearly all. It's just not as clear cut as you think.

>I remember going to a talk given by Kenton Cool and he said that his descent down the West Flank was one of his most harrowing days in the mountains...

I fully concur with that. Never again. Only bonus is a view across the N face.

In reply to jon:

Ha ha no worries Jon and I totally agree that Simon should settle it by descending the w flank this summer. After ascending it first to have the complete and unadulterated West Flank experience...

In reply to jon:


Entirely true. A Japanese guide with two clients followed us down the West Flank. But he'd not been on the mountain before