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Hello.
A short question....
What would loose someone a onsight of a trad route?
Sav
A short question....
What would loose someone a onsight of a trad route?
Sav
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In reply to Mountain Spirit:
The idea is to try to lead the route without falling off or resting on the gear. At the elite level where the climb is reported on the UKC news etc, then things like having a little look at the holds on abseil or knowing something about the crucial gear or whatever might be considered important. But for an ordinary climber, 'onsight' generally means 'led first go without cocking it up' regardless of minor details like having watched someone else climb it a while ago, or if their mate said that you need a little blue camalot in a slot just before the crux, or if there was chalk on the holds, or any other trivia.
On the other hand, some people, even though they're by no means part of the elite, *do* care about such trivia. It is up to each of us how to judge our own climbing; and how to judge these people.
The idea is to try to lead the route without falling off or resting on the gear. At the elite level where the climb is reported on the UKC news etc, then things like having a little look at the holds on abseil or knowing something about the crucial gear or whatever might be considered important. But for an ordinary climber, 'onsight' generally means 'led first go without cocking it up' regardless of minor details like having watched someone else climb it a while ago, or if their mate said that you need a little blue camalot in a slot just before the crux, or if there was chalk on the holds, or any other trivia.
On the other hand, some people, even though they're by no means part of the elite, *do* care about such trivia. It is up to each of us how to judge our own climbing; and how to judge these people.
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In reply to Mountain Spirit:
Forbidden.
If queuing you should really face the other way.
Or just not care, climb the route by any style and just enjoy climbing for climbings sake.
> Thanks....What about photos on UK Climbing?
Forbidden.
If queuing you should really face the other way.
Or just not care, climb the route by any style and just enjoy climbing for climbings sake.
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In reply to Jon Stewart:
Thanks.
Very interesting.
I love watching videos on YouTube of people climbing.
Elite level, are you talking about E7 and above?
What if someone saw a video a fews ago of the route being climbed and forgotten the moves, gear etc involved?
Thanks.
Very interesting.
I love watching videos on YouTube of people climbing.
Elite level, are you talking about E7 and above?
What if someone saw a video a fews ago of the route being climbed and forgotten the moves, gear etc involved?
Post edited at 21:29
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In reply to Mountain Spirit:
Wearing a blind fold once cost me an onsight.
> What would loose someone a onsight of a trad route?
Wearing a blind fold once cost me an onsight.
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In reply to Mountain Spirit:
Bordering on retro-flash where you actually did the route years ago but have forgotten it - also known as a grey-point
> Thanks.Very interesting.I love watching videos on YouTube of people climbing.Elite level, are you talking about E7 and above?What if someone saw a video a fews ago of the route being climbed and forgotten the moves, gear etc involved?
Bordering on retro-flash where you actually did the route years ago but have forgotten it - also known as a grey-point
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In reply to Bulls Crack:
I thought a retro flash required a Rab Kinder Smock, some manky old ron hills and Boreal lazers?
> Bordering on retro-flash where you actually did the route years ago but have forgotten it - also known as a grey-point
I thought a retro flash required a Rab Kinder Smock, some manky old ron hills and Boreal lazers?
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In reply to Mountain Spirit:
Err Savvas, given that we've agreed to forget about grades, why not go for the double and forget about style as well.
As long as we don't damage the rock, we're as safe as can be and we're scrupulously honest, well... it's pretty much all good.
Come down to Portland when the weather's better and we'll just... go climbing.
Mick
Err Savvas, given that we've agreed to forget about grades, why not go for the double and forget about style as well.
As long as we don't damage the rock, we're as safe as can be and we're scrupulously honest, well... it's pretty much all good.
Come down to Portland when the weather's better and we'll just... go climbing.
Mick
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In reply to Mick Ward:
Agreed....
Just wandering.
Thanks for the offer.
What's wrong with talking about style?
I never knew we agreed not to talk about grades.
Agreed....
Just wandering.
Thanks for the offer.
What's wrong with talking about style?
I never knew we agreed not to talk about grades.
Post edited at 23:18
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In reply to Mountain Spirit:
Does watching someone climb it with bad beta blow the onsight?
What about incorrect gear advice. I'd take the onsight if someone assured me I needed to take a size six cam for the crucial runner only to arrive at the crux to discover it was a size five.
Does watching someone climb it with bad beta blow the onsight?
What about incorrect gear advice. I'd take the onsight if someone assured me I needed to take a size six cam for the crucial runner only to arrive at the crux to discover it was a size five.
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In reply to Brown:
I fell off a mega classic route I'd saved for years due entirely to duff beta. Can I still claim the onsight?
I fell off a mega classic route I'd saved for years due entirely to duff beta. Can I still claim the onsight?
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In reply to Bulls Crack:
Thought that was Alzheimer's onsight
> Bordering on retro-flash where you actually did the route years ago but have forgotten it - also known as a grey-point
Thought that was Alzheimer's onsight
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In reply to Jon Stewart:
I once fell off a mega classic route at Avon Gorge owing to some loose holds. Fortunately there were some Portaloos on site in the Avon car park because I was literally crapping myself – I guess it was a loose bowel problem combined with a literary problem ... [I'll get my coat]
> I fell off a mega classic route I'd saved for years due entirely to duff beta. Can I still claim the onsight?
I once fell off a mega classic route at Avon Gorge owing to some loose holds. Fortunately there were some Portaloos on site in the Avon car park because I was literally crapping myself – I guess it was a loose bowel problem combined with a literary problem ... [I'll get my coat]
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In reply to Mountain Spirit:
Onsighting a traditional route in good style is the satisfaction of climbing well.
It only matters to you.
DC
> Hello. A short question....What would loose someone a onsight of a trad route?
No one gives a flying fortress except yourself.Onsighting a traditional route in good style is the satisfaction of climbing well.
It only matters to you.
DC
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In reply to Mountain Spirit:
Not turning up. That'll do it every time.
> Hello.A short question....What would loose someone a onsight of a trad route?Sav
Not turning up. That'll do it every time.
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In reply to digby:
Thanks
I posted this original when I was at a Pret A Manger with time on my hands before my Spanish class.
Thanks
I posted this original when I was at a Pret A Manger with time on my hands before my Spanish class.
Post edited at 19:55
In reply to Mountain Spirit:
Following the scratch marks where everyone else before you has gone off route?
Following the scratch marks where everyone else before you has gone off route?
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In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:
No, that would never do it.
> Not turning up. That'll do it every time.
No, that would never do it.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
No, what you're describing there is a flash. A flash ascent and an onsight are two different things. If you've done any of the above you've flashed the route but not onsighted it (aside from chalked up holds which are acceptable for onsights too.)
I suspect there might be some confusion because before sport climbing onsight in this country was more about doing a route ground up - that is not pre-inspecting the route by abseil, checking out runner placements, routefinding etc..
Well it's not trivia when it's part of the meaning of the word to describe it. If people don't understand the difference it's good to point it out. If people do understand the difference but still claim they've onsighted something when really they've flashed then they're simply not being honest about what they've done.
I suppose the reality is that aside from non elite climbers no one really cares what you've done anyway - the only significance is to the climber. If you rest on the gear, or pull up on a friend and claim an onsight you can do that too if you want.
> But for an ordinary climber, 'onsight' generally means 'led first go without cocking it up' regardless of minor details like having watched someone else climb it a while ago, or if their mate said that you need a little blue camalot in a slot just before the crux, or if there was chalk on the holds, or any other trivia.
No, what you're describing there is a flash. A flash ascent and an onsight are two different things. If you've done any of the above you've flashed the route but not onsighted it (aside from chalked up holds which are acceptable for onsights too.)
I suspect there might be some confusion because before sport climbing onsight in this country was more about doing a route ground up - that is not pre-inspecting the route by abseil, checking out runner placements, routefinding etc..
> On the other hand, some people, even though they're by no means part of the elite, *do* care about such trivia. It is up to each of us how to judge our own climbing; and how to judge these people.
Well it's not trivia when it's part of the meaning of the word to describe it. If people don't understand the difference it's good to point it out. If people do understand the difference but still claim they've onsighted something when really they've flashed then they're simply not being honest about what they've done.
I suppose the reality is that aside from non elite climbers no one really cares what you've done anyway - the only significance is to the climber. If you rest on the gear, or pull up on a friend and claim an onsight you can do that too if you want.
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In reply to stp:
That's your view, but I don't differentiate between an onsight and a flash in my mid-grade trad plodding. It doesn't seem appropriate to me. Even less appropriate is your use of the word 'honest' which has no relevance at all when there is no attempt to deceive, nor anything to be gained in any theoretical attempt to deceive.
Can I refer you back to the last sentence of my post?
That's your view, but I don't differentiate between an onsight and a flash in my mid-grade trad plodding. It doesn't seem appropriate to me. Even less appropriate is your use of the word 'honest' which has no relevance at all when there is no attempt to deceive, nor anything to be gained in any theoretical attempt to deceive.
Can I refer you back to the last sentence of my post?
Post edited at 20:15
In reply to Mountain Spirit:
Oh does it bloody matter? Does no one climb for, you know, fun, anymore?
Oh does it bloody matter? Does no one climb for, you know, fun, anymore?
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In reply to Chris Craggs:
I wonder as I wander
And the wandering gets stronger
It can't really be much longer
Till I wander my way through
With wandering comes doubt
And it seems like no way out
Unless I whisper, laugh or shout
All my wonders to the world
Mikelangelo & The Black Sea Gentlemen
I wonder as I wander
And the wandering gets stronger
It can't really be much longer
Till I wander my way through
With wandering comes doubt
And it seems like no way out
Unless I whisper, laugh or shout
All my wonders to the world
Mikelangelo & The Black Sea Gentlemen
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In reply to Jon Stewart:
So why not just use the term 'flash' then?
> I don't differentiate between an onsight and a flash in my mid-grade trad plodding.
So why not just use the term 'flash' then?
In reply to stp:
I don't want people to think I'm a f*cking boulderer!
> So why not just use the term 'flash' then?
I don't want people to think I'm a f*cking boulderer!
Post edited at 23:26
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In reply to digby:
Might cost you the onsight though
> Lose not loose for heaven's sake.
Might cost you the onsight though
Post edited at 23:32
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Wearing a beanie?
Got yer top off??
I rest my case!
Mick
> I don't want people to think I'm a f*cking boulderer!
Wearing a beanie?
Got yer top off??
I rest my case!
Mick
In reply to stp:
I think these terms have evolved (by which of course I mean they are now used incorrectly).
Back in the day we climbed pretty much everything by carrying all our gear, putting it in as we went, or 'leading' as we called it. 'Ground-up' would have been redundant because we would have qualified any other way of leading.
Assuming you hadn't done it before, the lead was 'on sight', although, again, this tended to be assumed and wasn't really a big thing; you'd generally say (or note in your diary) if you'd done it before.
'Flash' wasn't really a standard term but we tended to use it for a smooth ascent, with no downclimbing or faffing about. For a proper lead, you could downclimb as long as you didn't weight the gear, although real purists would pull the ropes and reclip on the lead (and always if you took over the lead from someone who had given up but even then it didn't really count as a lead because you hadn't placed the gear yourself).
A 'flash' required there hadn't been any such messing about but also implied the pitch had been dispatched with some style - you might be disqualified for unseemly gibbering or obvious trembling, even if you hadn't infringed more seriously.
Of course, everything we did was piss easy and everything is different now.
> So why not just use the term 'flash' then?
I think these terms have evolved (by which of course I mean they are now used incorrectly).
Back in the day we climbed pretty much everything by carrying all our gear, putting it in as we went, or 'leading' as we called it. 'Ground-up' would have been redundant because we would have qualified any other way of leading.
Assuming you hadn't done it before, the lead was 'on sight', although, again, this tended to be assumed and wasn't really a big thing; you'd generally say (or note in your diary) if you'd done it before.
'Flash' wasn't really a standard term but we tended to use it for a smooth ascent, with no downclimbing or faffing about. For a proper lead, you could downclimb as long as you didn't weight the gear, although real purists would pull the ropes and reclip on the lead (and always if you took over the lead from someone who had given up but even then it didn't really count as a lead because you hadn't placed the gear yourself).
A 'flash' required there hadn't been any such messing about but also implied the pitch had been dispatched with some style - you might be disqualified for unseemly gibbering or obvious trembling, even if you hadn't infringed more seriously.
Of course, everything we did was piss easy and everything is different now.
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