/ Bolting man made structure.

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Stephen3005 - on 09 May 2017
I've been asked if I'll help but a few routes up on a local sandstone bridge. Anybody got any advice?
Otis - on 09 May 2017
In reply to Stephen3005:

Best advice I can give you (if not done already) is to get permission from the person who owns the bridge first!

6
Dr Toph on 09 May 2017
In reply to Stephen3005:

Find a friendly structural engineer to assess the integrity of the bridge and the age/solidity of the sandstone itself?
Then make sure to use glue-in staples, since expansion bolts will fail quickly on sandstone. Ideally, also put in an extra bolt low down, somewhere away from the routes, and get it pull-tested?
And if this is your first time bolting anything, get someone to help who has some experience.
JLS on 09 May 2017
In reply to Stephen3005:

Used long (100mm ish) glue-in bolts. Expanding anchors are not great in sandstone. If anyone asks, it was bolted years ago by person or persons unknown.
3
Stephen3005 - on 09 May 2017
In reply to JLS:

You know what I'm talking about.
stp - on 11 May 2017
In reply to JLS:

> If anyone asks, it was bolted years ago by person or persons unknown.

In which case it might be an idea to paint the bolts to blend it. Nice new shiny, highly visible bolts will give the game away.

daWalt on 11 May 2017
In reply to Stephen3005:

there's a limit to what a structural engineer can tell you and even more of a limit on any assurances they can give....
Short of having cores drilled and samples tested - it would be worthwhile to drill a couple of pilot holes as deep as you can: get a feel for the size of the blocks and if the stone is solid (grout or fill with lime(y) mortar) - you can occasionally find (pretty unlikely on a bridge) pitch-faced ashlar facing pined to brick......

you might be able to get some history (pos even drawings) from the local authority; for armature local history research purposes obviously.
you might even find useful stuff in local history books that could tell you about the construction.



Timmd on 11 May 2017
In reply to Stephen3005:

The main thing might be to think about the size of the stones you're bolting, and if they could be pulled out in a fall? You couldn't happily place bolts in a brick wall - I have been told.
MischaHY - on 11 May 2017
In reply to Stephen3005:
Maybe get in touch with the lads who did the bolting of the bridge at New Mills Torrs?

Was done with full permission of the council and made for some nice additions to the venue at reasonable grades (6a-7a).

All done with glue-in ring bolts. Andy Turner was involved so maybe drop him a bell?

http://andyturnerclimbing.blogspot.de/2011/07/gritstone-bolts.html
Post edited at 13:36
Stephen3005 - on 11 May 2017
In reply to MischaHY:

Cheers, exactly the same time of bridge as the New Mills one so we are pretty hopeful of getting some half decent routes up. Permission, not so hopeful.
ads.ukclimbing.com
radddogg - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Stephen3005:

It's better to seek forgiveness than permission
2
GrahamD - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

> It's better to seek forgiveness than permission

seems to be the official BMC line right now
1
StillTryingForTheTop on 12 May 2017
In reply to Stephen3005:

more North, or South than New Mills?

if more to the south, please drop me a message once done as to it's location

Thanks
Stephen3005 - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Stephen3005:

Would anyone have an email address for Andy Turner?
eltankos - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Stephen3005:

You might want to check this out
Blantyre Towers

The advice seems to fly in the face of what's been said in the thread here but the towers seem similar to your project
JLS on 12 May 2017
In reply to eltankos:

In hindsight, Willie, if he were alive today, wouldn't use expanding anchors to bolt at Blantyre Towers. I believe the vast majority of the expanding anchors he used went in fine but I think occasionally he had trouble with them not gripping properly. It remains to be seen how long the current bolts will last before they start to work loose, if they start to take lots of falls at say a crux. I imagine there will need to be an on-going checking and replacement (with glue-ins) program.

The comments in the crag notes about the quality of the bolts used were there to put people off using cheap short mild steel bolts which would only have a very limited life-span. I'll reword that paragraph.
eltankos - on 12 May 2017
In reply to JLS:

Thanks, I know nothing about bolting etc., just Blantyre towers immediately sprang to mind when there was talk of bolting man made structures.
BrendanO - on 14 May 2017
In reply to JLS:

Nice write-up JLS! Have only been to the Towers a couple of times, used the 7a Max guide book, and really enjoyed it! Near enough for after-work (an hour from W Embra depending on traffic), big long routes without giant runouts, some great moves, and the option of a top-out for a lovely view or a photo. And there's a pie shop in Blantyre! A unique venue (can be midgy in summer).
JLS on 14 May 2017
In reply to BrendanO:
Cheers. Yeah, the Towers turned out to be a good sport venue. Probably havent yet really received the attention they deserve. A bit too hard for beginers, a bit too easy and esoteric for hardcore climbers. That may change. They've seen a bit of action this spring with a few teams pitting themselves against the challenges and a recent send of an old project at 7c.
Post edited at 19:32
sheppy on 16 May 2017
In reply to JLS:

In fairness depending on the hardness of the sandstone expansion anchors should work just fine, especially if 12mm and longer than 130mm with double collars. Many of the original bolts in the Angus quarries (all sandstone are expansion and have been in use for nearly 30 years.
Usually the sandstone used for civil projects like retaining walls and viaduct piers is of a high quality though may look worse on the surface through weathering.
If there's no good reason not to though just use glue ins.
ads.ukclimbing.com

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.