/ New Belay Device?

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Thugitty Jugitty on 12 May 2017
This is my belay device:

http://tinypic.com/r/21111yo/9q

I've had it quite a while and I haven't seen any others around recently. Is there any good reason to replace it with something more modern? Ta.
MischaHY - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:

It probably still works, but you're missing out on much improved handling and also semi-automatic devices such as the Edelrid MegaJul. If you just want an updated tube/guide style device then the Petzl reverso is the business.
Andy Say - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:

If it works for you and you're happy with it then 'no'.
Watch out for wear on the rope separating 'bar': they've been known to get thin and sharp. And consider asbestos gloves if using with skinny single ropes
Thugitty Jugitty on 12 May 2017
In reply to Andy Say:

Thanks. I often belay double skinnies so it might be sensible to have something which could cope with a single. And I shouldn't wait for sharp edges to form....
Coel Hellier - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:

Get a DMM Mantis, the latest evolution of these sorts of devices. It'll handle better, is a good all rounder, and is under £20.

http://dmmclimbing.com/products/mantis-belay-device/

rgold - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:

> Thanks. I often belay double skinnies so it might be sensible to have something which could cope with a single. And I shouldn't wait for sharp edges to form....

For openers, try the single-strand free-hanging rappel test. (It might be a good idea to have a belay when you do this.) If you can't do that with complete comfort, you won't be able to hold high-impact falls either. (Note: this test is necessary, but not sufficient to guarantee you have enough braking power.)
Thugitty Jugitty on 12 May 2017
In reply to Coel Hellier:

There's a bewildering amount of choice. There's been some worrying discussion on here recently about the danger of some belay devices when holding a factor two fall. I can't find the particular comment I'm thinking of (it was partly about wearing belay gloves), but along these lines:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=659241&v=1#x8506698

GrahamD - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:

The only reason I replaced mine with a basic ATC was because the seperator bar wore through. Great piece of kit.
Rock to Fakey - on 12 May 2017
In reply to rgold:

> For openers, try the single-strand free-hanging rappel test. (It might be a good idea to have a belay when you do this.) If you can't do that with complete comfort, you won't be able to hold high-impact falls either. (Note: this test is necessary, but not sufficient to guarantee you have enough braking power.)

How do you do this test?
Andy Say - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

You find an overhang, chuck a single, anchored, rope down it and then abseil as normal on that single strand. Focusses the mind...

But it's horses for courses. If you spend a lot of time on fat 'wall ropes' the old tuber will be ace: if you're belaying somebody on a thin single on a trad route with potential for a long lob then something with a bit more 'grab' might well be advised.

We are currently spoilt for choice and subject to constant marketing, especially for the 'clever' devices. And, of course, we all obsess about the latest shiny bit of kit whilst often forgetting that those old things do actually work. Double slot Sticht plate with a spring?
Denzil - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Thugitty Jugitty: still use mine! Probably bought around 1990. http://www.smhc.co.uk/objects_item.asp?item_id=33153
Thugitty Jugitty on 12 May 2017
In reply to Andy Say:
> ...If you spend a lot of time on fat 'wall ropes' the old tuber will be ace: if you're belaying somebody on a thin single on a trad route with potential for a long lob then something with a bit more 'grab' might well be advised. ..

I mainly want something suitable for cragging but I do get out on multipitch trad one in a while. Does anybody have a recommendation along those lines? I'm not overly concerned about saving 20 grams on my belay device.
Post edited at 15:58
Oceanrower - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:

> There's been some worrying discussion on here recently about the danger of some belay devices when holding a factor two fall.

If you ever do take an genuine Factor 2 fall, I strongly suspect that your choice of belay plate is irrelevant.
Oliver Houston - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:

I've got the megajul and wouldn't recommend it. It'd probably be great if you were super weight conscious, but I don't think mine will have the longevity of an older device. It can also be a pain if you accidentally abseil in "semi-auto-locking" mode.

If you want guide mode, then a reverso, or DMM pivot is probably your best bet. If you want super simple, then a mantis, or any equivalent will do fine.
Coel Hellier - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:

> There's been some worrying discussion on here recently about the danger of some belay devices when holding a factor two fall.

That discussion is about the MegaJul (and similar auto-locking devices) which are rather different beasts than a tuber-like device. I think the jury is still out on the MegaJul, some use it and really like it, others are dubious.

But, something like the Mantis is pretty much an update on your current device, and should be similar but better.

Neil Williams - on 12 May 2017
In reply to MischaHY:
I find the 2 rope tubular type devices are much of a muchness except the Wild Country Variable Controller Pro 2 which is rubbish. They are *so* fussy about ropes, thicker ones as used in walls tend to make it jam up.
Post edited at 18:05
Rock to Fakey - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Andy Say:
Cheers. I still have one of those sprung "sticht" plates, with alloy "rust" now, not in use, and my 30 yr old dmm bettabrake lives in my chalkbag pocket for emergencies.
But for this test to work, in that it tells you its ok to hold falls because you can abseil ok in control with it, the opposite is also true, in that if you feel like its too fast on abseil, or out of control,! So that's why you suggest doing it belayed. Just checking what u meant. Then you may not be going to hold falls well,... the fall would be quite dynamic, and eventually held, hopefully, but at risk of decking.
Post edited at 18:39
Rock to Fakey - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Oliver Houston:
Agree about the mega jul. Its a PITA for abseil, in either mode, locking, or with leverage bina on. Even with the leverage bina, it's very difficult and not safe if you just want to try shunt back up a bit if missed gear / want to look at something u missed etc. I've hardly used it since it came in a rope deal. Plus... why supply it / say to pair it with an alloy hms (edelrid say use strike hms). Megajul is steel, will soon chew into an alloy crab. Needs a steel one, they do make the same bina in steel version though.
I'm happy with DMM Pivot, but not tried guide yet. Mantis would be good too, same as pivot but minus guide mode. And Bug.
Post edited at 18:49
springfall2008 - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Coel Hellier:

> Get a DMM Mantis, the latest evolution of these sorts of devices. It'll handle better, is a good all rounder, and is under £20. http://dmmclimbing.com/products/mantis-belay-device/

Mantis is great, I just picked one up for £14 from Rock and Run too!
jimtitt - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Andy Say:

> We are currently spoilt for choice and subject to constant marketing, especially for the 'clever' devices. And, of course, we all obsess about the latest shiny bit of kit whilst often forgetting that those old things do actually work. Double slot Sticht plate with a spring?

Curiously enough while having a discussion elsewhere about using an Italian Hitch hand up or down I had occasion to drag out an old file of tests, still far more powerful than an ATC XP whichever way you use it.
Sticht plates are average performers, almost exactly the same as an ATC but of course the feeding is more challenging.
Basically all modern "normal" plates work about as well as each other, the best overall performer is still the ATC XP which shows how little improvement there is to be made in reality.
Robert Durran - on 12 May 2017
In reply to Oceanrower:

> If you ever do take an genuine Factor 2 fall, I strongly suspect that your choice of belay plate is irrelevant.

On the contrary, I would have thought that is when the choice of belay place would be most critical.

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BigBrother - on 13 May 2017
In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:

> Thanks. I often belay double skinnies so it might be sensible to have something which could cope with a single. And I shouldn't wait for sharp edges to form....

When the tuber was designed a skinny double was 9mm

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