UKC

Heading to the CZ for a week, hoping to get a few days climbing in whilst there and just discovered that it costs £40 (one way!) for a 15kg check in bag. For £80 I could get a new rope, carabiner, sling and belay device - especially over there.

Looking at sending the stuff over by bulk courier. All this because airport security don't understand climbing equipment. Surely there has to be a better way?

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

We went climbing to Mallorca last month with Ryanair and had no problems with a rucksack full of climbing gear. I think when we booked online it was £20 a bag up to 20kg each so going as a couple we took one each, one full of climbing gear, including 80m rope, and a full sport rack etc and the other just full of normal holiday clothes etc plus hand luggage.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Flew with Ryanair in February and had ropes, harnesses, carabiners etc in my cabin baggage. We were so short on hold baggage weight allowance that we boarded the plane in B3 boots, and helmets carrying out sleeping bags and pillows. None of the staff seemed to care!

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:


I don't understand your thought connection between Ryanair charging for baggage and airport security?

In reply to estivoautumnal:

Because airport security are notoriously unpredictable with their tolerance of climbing gear it forces the passenger to buy check-in luggage from the airline if they want any sort of security, when it could all fit in hand luggage.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

TBH I'm pretty impressed that Jack M92 had ropes (sic),harnesses(sic) and krabs in his cabin luggage.
Could you actually manage that and not fall foul of cabin luggage dimensions/ weight restrictions?

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I have often considered but not yet done the whole, no hold luggage and buy the gear out there thing. Pound isn't strong enough against the euro at the moment, plus there is the inconvenience of having to go shopping too.

In reply to 3leggeddog:

Here's a thought. If the cost of getting gear there and back is the same as that of buying when you're there, then if you save on the outward leg and only pay to bring gear back again, you could argue that Ryanair has paid for half of the shiny new gear you would have to have bought sooner or later anyway

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

A friend of mine once bought 10 new quick draws at the end of a climbing trip in France and had them confiscated at security when trying to take them onboard in hand luggage and never saw them again. This was about ten years ago so there are probably more paranoid security staff at airports these days so be careful!

In reply to 3leggeddog:
Since when was shopping for climbing gear an inconvenience ?

To puplemonkeyelephant: £40 each way. Are you sure you got that right? When I last checked it was £20 each way. and to those who have managed to get ropes etc. through security, you have been lucky. It's down to airport security NOT the airline and even then it can be down to the individual security personnel. I've witnessed ropes getting through one gate but not through the one a few yards away. For me it's not worth the risk.

Al

In reply to GridNorth:


It's not a standard charge - they seem to vary it dependent on demand. Was looking at flights to Mallorca and bags were £32 one way and £37 the other. And a bike was £60 each way. But if you're travelling hand baggage only they do seem cheaper than others - but with bags and bikes it was cheaper on Jet2.

In reply to andy:

Just checked, you are right. Is this a recent change? I try to avoid Ryanair, Easyjet is much better IMO.

Al

In reply to JackM92:

You were lucky, but don't rely on this. In particular a karabiner would make an effective knuckle duster so is very likely to be confiscated. And if I had a roll of tape confiscated "because I might tie someone up" (I decided not to mention that, if I were so inclined, which I am not, I could do that with my laptop power cable), a rope is unlikely to be OK either.

Are Ryanair playing rip-off merchants - yes. If that annoys you don't fly with Ryanair and they'll soon pack it in. They did after all discover that their policy of being unpleasant to people was starting to cost them money, and backed it off somewhat.

In reply to GridNorth:


Agreed. The Ryanair bag fee is upped in peak season, FWIW.

In reply to JackM92:

So what was your plan B if they said no to all of this? Why would you risk your holiday for the sake of planned baggage arrangements? Like Grid North's comments above I think you have either been ridiculously lucky. Quite a few climbers have lost confiscated gear they tried to bring in on hand luggage and ropes are normally expressly forbidden in hand luggage, so you risk more than just extra costs if caught.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

It shouldn't get confiscated , you'll just be asked to have it checked in. That happened to me returning from Italy. So just make sure you have a lightweight bag so you can put stuff in the hold whilst keeping valuables on you.

In reply to Lion Bakes:

Beware that if that happens Ryanair will charge you FAR more than the £80.

Don't risk it. It's not worth it.

In reply to Offwidth:


I've never seen that ?

In reply to David Riley

I was told at airport security that was the case in several european countries but having done a search I may well have been gullible. It seems its the luck of the draw on who you get in security. Climbing rope is allowed checked baggage in the US as its on TCA regs.

https://apps.tsa.dhs.gov/mytsa/cib_results.aspx?search=climbing%20rope

In reply to Offwidth:
I see your link (thanks) does show rope as being ok inside hand luggage. I thought the same was true for Europe.
Nervousness to do what we are supposed to be allowed to do is acting against climbers interests.
We would be better off standing up for our rights and normalizing it with the few that have incorrectly objected.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:


Not sure where the 'CZ' is - but anyway isn't the 'problem' here that you've been lulled into an assumption that air travel should be super cheap, irrespective of any considerations (including environmental ones)?

That's just consumerism. I'm as guilty of it as anybody, so I'm not trying to be a smart-arse - but maybe you want to take a step back and think about what costs what, and what actual values are.

In reply to David Riley:

I'm sure that sentence made perfect sense to you..

In reply to David Riley:

It's doesn't seem like much of a right that needs fighting for to me. I'll stick to putting the rope in the hold baggage and sticking other things in my hand luggage and avoiding the potential hassle and possible extra expense.

In reply to Oceanrower:

Which sentence do you think has a problem and why ?

In reply to Offwidth:

The subject obviously matters to a lot of people since we've had threads about it for years.
Fighting is not necessary. We just need to stop worrying about the risk of misunderstanding and follow proper complaint procedures if airport security breaks its own rules.
I will continue carrying allowed equipment in hand luggage if I wish. If it ever does cause me a problem, I will do my best to improve the situation for everyone else.

In reply to Neil Williams:


Nope, it was Ryan Air I was flying with and they charged me nothing. Clearly different to your own experience where you got charged.

In reply to David Riley:

Agreed but it's little consolation knowing your are right when you are unable to climb because some jobsworth thought otherwise. IMO it's not worth the hassle and in any case packing the climbing gear in a duffle and clothes in hand baggage is an easy remedy.

Al

In reply to GridNorth:

Last night we booked flights to Switzerland for a family party and the Jungfrau Marathon.
We are only taking hand baggage. So our climbing harnesses will go in there or not at all.

In reply to Rob Parsons:

It's a primarily a security issue not a price issue. If they were all crystal clear about what's allowed then your point would make more sense, but the fact that some people take the risk and have no problems shows the issue here.

Also, CZ = Czech Republic.

In reply to GridNorth:


It's not fair to categorise security staff at airports as 'jobsworths' or to state that you are right and they are wrong. They look at the baggage, look at you and form a view. If they're not comfortable with your profile, the item you've got doesn't go on. You can always ask to speak to the supervisor, but if the supervisor forms the same view you're stuffed. If you kick off, you've got no chance. Smile and wave, nothing to see here, just a nice person going about their lawful business. Ropes go in hand baggage, hardware in the hold, no problem. Moody, stroppy, 'entitled' person meets security guard who's been there for hours and just wants to go home? You might get the person who's happiest looking at the abstract pictures on the scanner screen, but the rules say he's now got to do the bag checks, and he's fed up talking to people who are being awkward. Play nicely.

In reply to Lion Bakes:

I've never been caught out because I don't take the risk. No stress. On most airlines if you can't afford the bag fee you can't afford the holiday. On Ryanair, well, if you don't like their policies don't use them, they'll soon pack it in.

I near enough always put a bag in the hold. When comparing prices, the hold baggage price is included in my comparison.

In reply to nniff:

There is what railway staff often call the attitude test. Play nice and they will be reasonable. Play not nice, and they will do what they legally can to make your life as awkward as possible.

In reply to Neil Williams:


Then what do you base your they'll charge you an extortionate fee on? You've also made a number of assumptions there which are somewhat wide of the mark.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Allegedly, by the way, though I've not done it, Sleasy will put a cabin sized bag in the hold for free, provided you don't then also carry one on. This may be helpful for those in this position, though don't rely on it in case it's not universal or they have changed their policy!

In reply to Lion Bakes:

The price of a hold bag at the airport, which is much higher than one purchased in advance. The figure is on the fee page on their website.

In reply to nniff:

I'm not categorising all security staff but anyone who confiscates an item that is "officially" allowed is the very definition of a jobsworth. In any case your lecture is wasted on me, I never take any chances with what and how I pack. Climbing gear in the hold, clothes in hand baggage.

Al

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:


If it's not a 'price issue' then I've misunderstood the point of your original post. Fair enough. But then the solution is easy: just put all your climbing stuff in checked-in baggage.


I'm not trying to defend the various (often confusing rules - and confused) rules about what is or isn't allowed in airplanes. But I'd never blame the outcomes on the lowly-paid folk whose job it is implement those rules - and for whom a mistake could have hideous consequences.

Nor would I expect that those folk should be expected to understand the details of climbing equipment - or the particular details of any other activity. There's a simple fix: put anything potentially objectionable in your checked baggage.

>Also, CZ = Czech Republic.

Ok thanks.

In reply to Neil Williams:


Jet2 also - they're happy to do it because it reduces the hassle of having gazillions of on-the-limit trolley bags trying to squeeze into overhead lockers. We just check in the hand luggage having taken out ipad and earphones etc - no need to mess about with liquids at security either.

In reply to GridNorth:


A jobsworth is someone who follows the rules of their job despite common sense suggesting otherwise. An example might be where a passenger goes to a ticket inspector on a train to report a mugging, but the inspector fines them for having no ticket (which they only didn't have because their wallet was nicked). Technically correct per the rules but rather silly.

With regard to airport security *nothing* is officially allowed per-se. The rules absolutely ban certain items, but because there are lots of things that might be vaguely weapon-esque but you couldn't realistically have a list of them there does need to be a bit of discretion. While it seems perverse to me to ban a rope but not a laptop power cord, there are many items of climbing gear that could easily be used as weapons (e.g. a krab as a knuckle duster), therefore to me the hold is the place for them.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:


How much was the price for hand baggage only? I believe you have to look at the total all in price to assess value, how its divied up between the various charges is arbitrary

In reply to kevin stephens:


Agreed - the per head price on Ryanair for our Mallorca trip was about £80 and Jet2 was £140-odd. But overall price for the party with bags etc was slightly cheapar with Jet2m and that's with 22kg bags instead of 15kg.

In reply to andy:

Yep.

FWIW, personally I won't do any more than one night, or possibly two at a push, hand luggage only.

In reply to Neil Williams:

I don't understand your post. You won't "do any more than one night"?

In reply to kevin stephens:

I think for the dates we needed it was about £120 each. To ask £80 on top of that for an extra 15kg seems a bit steep to me, especially when the stuff could fit in hand luggage and isn't listed anywhere as banned. But I guess that's just the situation we all have to deal with.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

If I am staying 2 or more nights at my destination I will near always take a checked bag.

In reply to GridNorth:


You miss the point completely - there is a list of stuff that is not allowed, not a list of stuff that is allowed. The security staff look at baggage, and the passenger with them and attempt to identify whether or not the two together present a potential risk to the aircraft, its passengers or crew. If you turn up with something that has the potential to cause trouble, and your demeanour and appearance is anything less than ideal, then you can guess what's going to happen.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I've always thought the issue of climbing gear in carry on luggage was something the BMC should resolve with the caa. Either a yes or no would be better than sometimes, and it may be a yes...

In reply to jonnie3430:
1. I can't see the BMC's case being taken seriously by the IATA (not CAA) just because climbers are too penny pinching to pay for hold bags
2. A karabiner is potentially a knuckleduster, which is on the banned list. If you are allowed through it means that the security teams are not doing their job, not being "jobsworth" when they stop you

In reply to kevin stephens:

I think you'll find a knuckle duster is a knuckle duster. A crab is a bit of sports equipment used by climbers and it would be really useful if the BMC could at least clarify what climbing equipment is allowed in carry on luggage to prevent the need for the gamble on the future.

A crab is a POTENTIAL knuckle duster, until you punch someone using it and you break your? knuckles. You are much better off with a belt buckle, or some keys.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Whilst the charges for hold bags / bikes/ skis can seem excessive and frustrating, I try to look at the total price. Even if this comes to say £150 to some sun-rock destination, it usually compares very favourably with the cost of a long rail trip in Britain.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I have been lobbying the BMC to something about this for sometime now. This is what our national body should be doing something about. What we need is consistency, can we take rope, QD, and Krab in cabin, yes or no.

In reply to Neil Williams:

Got it, thanks - and your wording does make sense although only with the benefit of hindsight! No criticism of you - I know what it's like when you know what you mean in your head and your sentence looks unambiguous.

I am about to do 5 nights in Italy with hand baggage only, I am treating it as a challenge especially as there is a work day involved in that so I need to have some reasonably smart clothes!

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Sorry. after about half way i only started skim reading, but currently Ryanair are the only airline i use, and i use many a month, that allow 2 carry on bags. A Rucksack, and a seperate smaller bag or carrier bag of whatever you want.

I re-use this huge hemp shopper i bought from duty free ages ago full of my shit as well as a huge hiking pack.

Sorry i just had to butt in as i didn't see anyone mention the 2 bags things.

In reply to jonnie3430:

How can they clarify the varying policy which is a combination of what airport you're at and what air line you're flying on? I've had permanent markers taken off me at security, i've had magnets taken off, yet been waved through at morocco with 2 fishing knives. It really depends where you are.

In reply to J1234:
And what was the BMC's response?

In reply to J1234:

Do you really think that the bmc can influence airport security?

I agree security regulations are illogical but I cannot see airports bowing to pressure from a minority sports governing body just so that your sun rock trip is more comfortable.

We should all just grow up on this one. Check your gear in or buy it on arrival. You could even post gear out and back if you feel so agreived at the cost of hold luggage.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I haven't flown for many years, thank f*ck for that going by this thread. What happened to, I'm going from here to here, this is is what I have, what will it cost, can I buy a ticket please?

In reply to aln:


The simple answer is that nothing happened to it.

Some people just have a crazy sense of entitlement, just as people did 40 years ago, 100 years ago, and really all through human history.


There is a more nuanced answer, but I can tell that you can't be bothered so I shan't bother either.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Yes, certainly a challenge, good luck

In reply to J1234:


The only possible answer if you want a consistent one is "no".

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I can tell that you can't be bothered so I shan't bother either.

Can you indeed? I can tell that you're a bit different from many other users on here, you always were, and you're slightly different from you used to be. But still, please don't assume you know what I'm thinking. So go on then...

In reply to aln:

Ok I will play along aln.
I quote your post. Try to read it as if you are reading it as cold text without nuance , body language etc

"I haven't flown for many years, thank f*ck for that going by this thread. What happened to, I'm going from here to here, this is is what I have, what will it cost, can I buy a ticket please?"

If you can't see that - whether or not it was intended this way - this could very easily come across as smug judgemental rhetoric, then you really need to stop and think about how to express yourself clearly and diplomatically.
It just doesn't read , to me, like sincere relief that you don't fly. It potentially looks like an irrational attack on people who fly and discuss pricing systems.

I accept that maybe you really are just innocently saying "wow this looks like a nightmare , I am glad I don't fly much" but there is a perhaps inadvertent aggressive tone to your post

In reply to Blue Straggler:

>you really need to stop and think about how to express yourself clearly and diplomatically.

Wow, do I really? You've come back in full effect, as strange as before. There's nothing at all aggressive in my previous post.

In reply to aln:

You admit that you have not flown "for many years" but still express a strong opinion about how things are today in passenger aviation. That's aggressive. That's like someone saying "I haven't seen a film in the cinema for many years because cinemas and audiences are awful today".

In reply to aln:

I already acknowledged that I may have misinterpreted your intention in the post to which I was originally referring, so no further explanation or disclaimers can be demanded of me at this point. Calm yourself down

In reply to Blue Straggler:


Oh FFS Straggler, calm yer self down. C'mon over here, give me a kiss. Do you want a cuddle?

In reply to aln:
An oily massage please, seeing as you already think I am being weird!

In reply to 3leggeddog:


Yes. They could approach the government and have the discussion.

Why can you not take a Krab but you can a Bottle of whisky, which would make a far better weapon.
Is a rope a threat to security. If it is, then fair enough, we do not even need to be told why, if some security export says it is, then it is, but if someone from G4S with no training thinks so, its not good enough.

There is another dimension to this, in the current climate of terror, these staff should be trained to pick up real threats not just pick on daft things.

Think on this. Why are people caught at security with bottles of "water", not arrested and the the "water" not taken away and analysed. Think about for a moment.

Sampled my Damson Gin last night, very good

In reply to Neil Williams:


Then you should not be able to take bottles of spirits onto planes.

In reply to J1234:

That one always has confused me, I must admit. It would make more sense if it was given to cabin crew to store for the journey.

In reply to Neil Williams:

It tells me that in the balance between security and revenue, revenue wins, which does rather fly in the face of that in the interests of security, we should put up with anomalies at baggage check in.
Also from an environmental and securiy standpoint, everyone should if they want water, have to have a reusable bottle with a place to empty (with a big sign that says empty water bottle now or you will be arrested and be denied boarding) before security and a free water fountain the other side.

In reply to J1234:


When is the last time that you went through airport security?

In reply to Blue Straggler:

About 5 weeks ago. I see people trying to take fluids through and not being arrested. What are you trying to say?

In reply to J1234:

There is no possible consistent set of rules that can be applied to millions of people a year, quickly, when stressed at security, by probably not very clever or motivated staff. Every interest group around will have a list of things they want to take that, to them, are harmless and should *obviously* be allowed but going though each and every request is impractical. A set of somewhat arbitrary, somewhat ambiguous rules with security staff allowed to make final decisions is the only possibility. Frustrating, but there we are.

In reply to MG:


I think they are poorly trained, which is not their fault, I have no reason to doubt their intelligence.

I carry harness and binners in hand luggage all the time accepting the risk of loosing them to security minions.
One trick which worked for me is to turn around and walk away if security officer is not willing to get you pass with carabiners. Go have a coffee and try another scanner with different security officer.

So far I have carried carabiners, harness and slings on about 100 occasions and was turned off only once because of harness. Once or twice they asked why I am in helmet. Sometimes they cheer then see me in ski boots

Many airports in Europe have post offices as well. So as last resort it may be efficient to send items to yourself.

In reply to nutme:



So why is a harness a risk and not a belt or a bra?

In reply to J1234:




Are these people getting their fluids taken off them and disposed of?

In reply to Blue Straggler:


Yes. However if the suspicion is that these could be bomb makiing materials, why are these people not being arrested. Or put another way, if you were a terrorist you could make multiple attempts at getting the materials on board, with minmimal risk of detection, the terrorist only needs to get through once.
I believe that much of the security rigmarole is about being seen to do something, and allaying fears so people will fly.

In reply to J1234:


Most airports do have such a facility, you know. It isn't well signed (because they want to flog expensive water) but you certainly can near universally do it. If you don't know where the drinking water facility is airside ask the staff to point it out.

In reply to J1234:

Because they COULD be bomb making materials; there is no workable means of detecting this. It doesn't mean they ARE.

You don't get them through security, anyway, so I'm not sure why you think it is necessary to arrest people rather than just confiscate and dispose of the material as happens now.

In reply to J1234:


Well done, this is the first thing you've said that makes sense! And not bookended with "Think about this" and "Think on it" either.

Think about this. I once had half a bottle of water confiscated at security as it had rolled into a broken-yet-hidden compartment of my carry-on baggage. I wouldn't have been happy if I'd been arrested for it.
In 2007 Ryanair confiscate a massive jar of Marmite I'd bought to take to a friend in Spain who I was visiting and who was missing Marmite. They claimed it was "liquid". My unhappiness at having had Ryanair steal my Marmite, would have been tenfold if I'd been arrested for it. Just think on that.

In reply to J1234:

I can't see why a harness is a risk at all, it's basically a piece of clothing.

It's krabs, trad gear and ropes that are the issue.

In reply to Neil Williams:

No, but Nutme a couple of posts up says that a harness was the issue.

I know people who take ropes but not gear. People who take gear but not ropes. If they are dangerous, why are some people letting them on, if they are not, why stop people.

This is the conversation I feel the BMC should have with the CAA or whoever.

In reply to J1234:

It's because, as has been outlined above, there is a list of definitely banned items (knives, guns etc) and then the rest is down to the discretion of the individual screener, which most of the time is final.

I don't think it can be otherwise, unless they simply went to a list of *allowed* items, which if they did would be very restrictive indeed.

In reply to J1234:

No point talking to the UK Civil Aviation Authority, it's the International Air Transport Association (IATA) who make the rules in consultation with various governments and their security bodies (MI5/6, FBI/CIA etc). you really need to put your case to them over the unfairness of having to pay to check your climbing gear in as hold luggage. What did the BMC say (if anything??) in response to your lobbying of them?

In reply to J1234:

I wish to know myself. But one thing I learned the hard way is not to crack jokes with security officers in airports. It's better not to talk to them at all besides answering questions as straightforward as you can. I had a job with a lot of travelling involved and stopped questioning their logic long time before I became weekend climber warrior.

When I broke a leg and was travelling with crouches I found out that you can carry long tubes of metal on board and keep them by your seat or in top locker. Not to mention forgotten screwdrivers and powertools in backpack during my travelling network engineer job. Unfortunately it narrows down to that single person who makes a choice on every occasion. Or doesn't makes a choice at all. For example knife taped to a big power supply of computer will not be visible on scanner monitor.

In reply to nutme:

Listen to the podcast Broken Windows here http://www.npr.org/podcasts/510308/hidden-brain, in particular listen to Jamals account of a conversation with a Police Officer, it revolves around a pocket knife. This conversation puts me in mind of dealing with security at airports. The conversation is about half way through.

In reply to kevin stephens:

I may attend my Area meeting and bring it up. My club BMC rep was a total waste of time. Also if I attend my area meeting I will be asking that the BMC AGM be moved to 6pm to encourage climbers who are not retired to attend the AGM and go climbing/walking during the day.

or

However I may decide in reality I do not really care and go climbing instead. Its odd committees and organiastions ask for engagement, but actually they are asking you to help perpetuate what they are doing, and when you push for something new they get a bit upset

In reply to nutme:

I think it would be visible on a power brick as they aren't that big these days. However, it wouldn't on a laptop, which is why you have to get those out.

I'd imagine if you had a huge 1980s style power brick you'd be asked to get it out.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

£80 should be considered adequate in my mind for quite alot of customer care. So present myself as being handled with care and if it seems to be the cheap queue then try to bring out the best in myself. If more bad luck occurs like moody staff member taking over from helpful one.. consider how bad it is for refugees. Maybe a holiday is an excessive luxury, certainly being British no longer means you can find help from a consular or diplomatic type official.
Anything that might be described as a tool in the main baggage hold! Or lose it. I think climbing kit does not class as tools until axes and gear pick which have sharp bits anyway so would be worth wary packing anyway.
As said, quickdraws have gone before but it is a pure choice of the customs, it seems to be their right as it is a character judgement like "just go with this, of course it costs you but if you don't mind sugar, this is my job, "
Travel without expecting what you paid for like working without expecting pay. Jimupdate.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

We got stung on Sunday for baggage coats, having expected Expedia to book hold luggage for us, or at least let us know that we'd not have it & needed to book it ourselves.
It cost us £26 each at the check in desk, but £12 each online (done just as this thread reminded me!) to book return baggage. Robbing gits, and it's Lufthansa too, who you'd expect to be better than that.

In reply to Neil Williams:


A friend had a carbon avalanche bag canister refused. It was fine on the way out and fine according to airline rules. It was spotted in hold baggage, identified and given the all clear by security but the airline still refused point blank to agree to allow it on board. Effectively, it was binned! I don't know if he was successful in getting reimbursed afterwards but it shows the fickleness of 'officialdom'.

In reply to earlsdonwhu: Avi cylinders are allowed but you need the airline's permission - I've had several debates but a copy of an email from the airline and the IATA regs has always worked.

In reply to andy:

Same airline out and back - they were fine at Heathrow but not when returning there. No amount of referring to T and C's made a difference.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:
Had he asked the airline and got confirmation from them though? The specific IATA reg says you have to have written confirmation from the airline - if he had that and they still refused then he'd have strong grounds for complaint.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Dont forget if you fail to check in 'on-line' and print off your own boarding card, Ryanair will charge you £50 / €50 for the privilege of their check in staff doing it for you at the airport. It's especially true for your return flights, particularly if you're not staying anywhere where you have easy access to a printer.

In reply to Bimble:


Not since at least 10 years ago. Not sure what happened but they went downhill very quickly and suddenly. Many of my colleagues will not fly with them

In reply to andy:
The slight problem is that legally the Captain is in control of the aircraft, and so if he says no, it's no. You can debate it afterwards and seek financial redress if he breached company policy, but there is no provision for the decision to be overridden on the day.

In reply to Neil Williams:

Yep, but in the case of security staff saying "no" to an avi bag I'd be amazed if they asked the captain.

In reply to andy:
Fair point, I thought the OP said the *airline* (not normally involved in security other than in making decisions about dangerous materials) refused it.

Airline policy usually has precious little to do with it, though. Until a few years ago easyJet banned all razors from hand luggage (they now follow standard rules in permitting cartridge razors where the blade can't be easily got out). In practice there was nothing they could do about it unless they could be bothered mounting their own bag searches at the gate, which they didn't. So on, presumably, went the razors - and at a certain unnamed European airport Swiss army knives, too.

In reply to Neil Williams:

Is the Swiss Army knife thing true? The rules actually allow blades up to 6cm so I assumed anything they sold airside would meet that requirement. But to be fair I'd never try to take a 6cm blade through security!

In reply to andy:

It is, though I'm not saying which airport so as not to aid those with nefarious intentions (though it isn't hard to guess).

In reply to andy:


It definitely is - I've seen it with my own (wide) eyes.

JW

In reply to John Ww:

I went in said shop out of curiosity to ask them how it worked, i.e. do they put them in the checked baggage, hand to cabin crew or something. I was astonished to find you just carry them on.

In reply to Neil Williams:

I had a Swiss Army Knife confiscated a few years ago at Basel - we had forgotten it was in the day-sack,


Chris

In reply to Neil Williams:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396327/Airport-security-farce-Deadlier-knives-used-9-11-sold-duty-free-taken-London-flight.html

Been doing a bit of googling - According to Victorinox their airside shops (of which I think there are several) only sell knives with blades less than 6cm, which officially are allowed (but good luck getting one through a UK airport). I'm amazed that any blades/scissors etc are allowed - and the UK govt website isn't entirely clear as it says "knives with a sharp point/blade and/or longer than 6cm" aren't allowed - which I think means sharp/pointy blades under 6cm are allowed!

https://www.gov.uk/hand-luggage-restrictions/personal-items

In reply to andy:
I think by UK rules and/or would mean the sharp point disqualifies it whether over or under 6cm (the "and" is spurious, the "or" overrides it). This is certainly how the checkpoint are likely to see it, and would be consistent with UK airport cafes having blunted knives and forks. (And is one reason why the UK does not trust any other country's security, only its own, so you have to pass security again on a transfer).

Though TBH I doubt a plane will ever be hijacked using a small knife like that again, as the game has changed. It used to be "sit down, shut up and you'll be fine". Now, I'd take my chances against someone with a Swiss army knife.

In reply to andy:

I lost a Swiss army knife to security at Geneva airport. Once through security, I was greeted by a large victorinox stall.

In reply to Lord of Starkness:


Good advice but also worth knowing that you can dodge the printer issue by using their app. It allows you to display the boarding passes on your phone rather than having to print them. That allowed us to avoid having to pay extra to check in for our return flights before we left. Just checked in online for free while on holiday.

In reply to Luke90: I find it's a ball ache now when i can't use a mobile boarding pass - I think Jet2 still insist on flappy bits of paper but most airlines now seem to have them on your phone.

In reply to Neil Williams:


So far so good
It is scorching hot so I perhaps could do with one more T-shirt which I could have crammed in. There is a drought so I could have ditched the RAB pac-a-mac.
Could also have ditched the wool-blend sports jacket but tbf that was never IN the baggage.
Aside from that, and perhaps a slight feeling of stretching the description of "acceptably clean" on some clothes, I feel I've got this spot on.
Long trousers, smart shorts, one t shirt, one smart short sleeved shirt, one smart long sleeved shirt, three pairs of socks, 4 pants, one CSC, sunglasses, peaked cap, wash bag, various adaptors and chargers and camera batteries, and a miniature guidebook for Venice. Not bringing a laptop was a very good move
All this apart from long trousers, one t shirt and the jacket, fit into a Quechua Diosaz Raid 17l backpack. I have a "bumbag" for overspill and souvenirs / gifts. And there is always the option of popping some skanky clothing into a launderette or something

In reply to Neil Williams:


I cottoned on to this years ago, I always approach people using my none aggressive,smiley, victim persona which tends to get me what I want without much fuss. It makes them want to help you, instead of wanting to punch you in the face.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

You'd not want to be anywhere near me if I had 1 T-shirt for several days...

In reply to Neil Williams:

The t shirt just about worked for two half days and one full day, with plenty time to "air" in between times. It is so warm here in Italy that The long sleeved shirt is not seeing much action, it feels clammy even though it is 100% cotton.