/ Macbook pro driving me crazy

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
pjcollinson - on 11 Sep 2017

I've just bought a refurbished mac book pro and have installed the latest os. When using Pages I'm finding it impossible to get "Save As" to work correctly. If I edit a document and "Save As" a different file name, both the new file and the original have been modified. I'd be super pleased if anyone has an explanation or fix for this. Thanks in advance.
Post edited at 19:52
Gordon Stainforth - on 11 Sep 2017
In reply to pjcollinson:

I gave up using Pages recently. Pages 09 was quite good but seemed temperamental on the last operating system, and the new Pages is crap. So I've gone back to using Word for Mac. It's working pretty well except for one relative minor quirk.

But, doing a Google, I see there's this, which might help:

http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-enable-save-as-option-in-mac-os-x/
SouthernSteve on 11 Sep 2017
In reply to pjcollinson:

The Apple implementation of save is SO annoying for Preview and Pages. If you are doing any decent amount of work I would get MS Office or one of the freeware alternatives such as Open Office. Apple have not got this right; why break a decent model which is universally understood and used in all other programmes?

pjcollinson - on 11 Sep 2017
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Thanks for that. I was aware of the shortcut to get "Save As", but it simply doesn't work which is really annoying. I think it's going to be a case of a move to Word for Mac.

Martin W on 12 Sep 2017
In reply to pjcollinson:

The 'explanation' is that the Save function in the Apple document handling applications is basically redundant. They save the latest version of the original document every time you close the document window or quit the app (which is kind of handy if you are the sort of dimwit who is always forgetting to save) or when you do a Save (which makes sense) but they also do it when you do a Save As. I think the idea is that you don't have to remember to do a Save As when you want to 'fork' your document - hence why the function is 'hidden' on the File menu - because the application keeps a history of all your versions of it.

This background saving function uses a variation on the Time Machine functionality. AFAIK you don't actually have to have Time Machine enabled for them to do it, which is just as well because otherwise a "fix" might be to turn Time Machine off, which would be flippin' daft.

You can get back to the previous version of the original document via the Revert To function lower down the File menu. It offers the previous version to the one that's on the screen at the time, or you can choose the Browse All Versions... option to get a Time Machine-like display of all the previous versions it has saved, and pick the version you want from that.

As well as Preview and Pages, TextEdit also works this way.

I think it's one of those 'features' which careless users, or users who can't be arsed to understand how files and directories actually work, find useful. It might also be something to do with MacOS/iOS convergence, ie making a PC behave more like a tablet, which is obviously a brilliant idea*. (The fact that, IIRC, the Google Docs apps - which are web-based apps with nothing in common with the Apple applications in terms of underlying code - work in a similar way is I think indicative of the same thing.)

As others have said, the "fix" is to use a non-Apple application like Word, or one of the free, open source office suites that can play with Microsoft document formats, like Libreoffice.

* In case you were wondering: I too find this functionality confusing and not nearly as helpful as it is no doubt supposed to be. I've spent forty-odd years managing files and folders, way back to when I was a coder on PDP-11s. I don't want the computer to do it for me, and when it comes down to it I don't trust the computer to do it for me!
pjcollinson - on 12 Sep 2017
In reply to Martin W:
Thanks for that Martin, very clear. I wondered how I'd eventually got my files back and I guess I must have unknowingly used the revert to function. I totally agree with you that I want to have control of my file management, not just leave it to the computer. I too have always managed my own files from back in the days of ms-dos. Looks like I'll have to try different software!
Post edited at 19:23
captain paranoia - on 12 Sep 2017
In reply to Martin W:

> I don't want the computer to do it for me, and when it comes down to it I don't trust the computer to do it for me!

Exactly. I want a computer to do what I tell it, not what it thinks I want to do.

If I edit a file, and then do 'save as', I want it to leave the original file alone, and save the changes in a new, forked version.
mik82 - on 12 Sep 2017
In reply to pjcollinson:

rather than Word for Mac, have you tried LibreOffice?
Luke90 on 12 Sep 2017
In reply to Martin W:
> (The fact that, IIRC, the Google Docs apps - which are web-based apps with nothing in common with the Apple applications in terms of underlying code - work in a similar way is I think indicative of the same thing.)

At least in Google's case, they don't confuse matters by including options like "save as" in their menus. If you're going to use a new model, you've got to embrace it fully. Re-using old terms but trying to give them a new meaning is just asking for trouble. What a ludicrous decision by Apple.
Stig - on 12 Sep 2017
In reply to captain paranoia:

Yes that used to annoy me, the sense it was trying to override my preference.

I gave up on Pages just a few weeks after first getting a Mac and moved to Office. I'm still on Word 2011 although I don't think they're updating it anymore. It's mostly been brilliant but seems not to be working quite as reliably recently. For instance the ctrl-cmd-V shortcut went awol the other day which was a disaster for me!

I rely on dropbox to share across platforms and with colleagues (much to the distress of Uni IT departments) and the Pages thing was impossible, having to resave as a word document all the time. No-one I know uses pages even though most have a Mac.

The only advantage of Pages was auto-synching across my other Apple devices (iphone and pad) but I can live without that.

On a similar note, why on earth does pdf Preview on the Mac not have a Save As function?? So annoying!
Gordon Stainforth - on 12 Sep 2017
In reply to Stig:

Just to reiterate: I'm having a good time now (after an initial bad time with Pages etc) using Word for Mac (version: 15.37, if that means anything) on my MacBook Pro (OS 10.12.6 Sierra). It's the only word processor I've found, apart from the old, quite good Pages 09, that has a good enough outline view mode, which is essential if you're writing a long book. Plus excellent footnote facilities, also essential for non-fiction, even if only for personal use for references, cross-references, notes etc., while in the process of writing.

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.