UKC

My 2 friends and I (2 indoor lead climbers and one ex-mountain rescue team member from way back) are heading to little Tryfan for our first foray into trad climbing next month and I'm wondering what we'd need in terms of a starter rack. Do we need cams or would nuts suffice? What size nuts/cams? How many and what length slings? How many and what length quick draws? Etc

We have the basics covered (harnesses, atcs, shoes, 5 sport quickdraws, 30m rope, etc) plus a couple of old nuts that have been restrung with new accessory cord.
 

Thanks in advance. Happy to answer any further queries

Cheers

Set of nuts, set of hexes, mix of QDs.

No need for cams (although it’d take them there’s plenty, like shed loads, of nut / hex placements).

Plus your usual screwgates, slings etc.

30m won’t get you to the top, but fine if you want to pitch it. You’ll obviously need enough for a stance

Cheers!! Any preferred sizes for nuts and hexes or will it take pretty much anything?

It depends if you stick to the obvious crack lines large gear will do. If you want to pad up the middle of the slabs the gear needed (nuts) will need to be small and the protection can be quite spaced.

Cams are actually very handy for the slab climbs between the crack lines.

My favourite pastime on the crag is to solo traverse back and forth at night with a head torch: it makes the slab feel much more expansive and gets you away from the worst polish.

A ‘set’ of nuts which generally means 1 each of sizes 1-10 (any brand) often sold as a pack. Cheaper than buying them individually. 5 bigger items (cams or hexes or a mix) to cover up to fist sized placements. 3 x 120cm slings, 1 or 2 240cm slings. A few krabs to rack all this on. 2 or 3 more longer QDs.  For little Tryfan you can get away with less than half of all that but if planning on doing more in future you’ll probably end up wanting all this.

Nut placements on the easier routes, the ones with obvious deep cracklines, are the most bomber gear you will ever place - double up on the bigger ones if you can!

You could get away with little more than you own on Little Tryfan if you are bold climbers but i would look at the following:

minimum (£130ish): set of nuts (you don't make yours sound at all appealling to fall on), nut key, 5 more QD (can use a few for racking krabs), 240 sling, locking krabs x3

offset nuts/cams/hexes, 120 slings x2, longer rope

Thanks all for the great info. Looks like I've quite a bit of gear to buy 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗

I've ordered a few WC hexes and to keep costs down, I'm eyeing up a set of "lightly used" nuts on eBay and decathlon slings, rope and quick draws. With regards to the used nuts, should I feel comfortable buying used hardware?

Thanks again!!

Wire nuts and other metal kit like extra krabs are fine secondhand if they're in good condition visually and gates work smoothly etc.

Anything on slings/tape/cord best avoided due to the potential for invisible damage, unless you're *very* confident about the source (ie it's from your mate and you trust them!)

What elliptic said is correct as far as I know -- but if you feel iffy about it, the Wild Country Classic Rocks set is a cheap and solid option.

Keep a lookout on alpinetrek, as much as local shops are good to support, this place has some amazing offers. 

Go to v12 in llanberis when you're up there. Very good shop and the guys will look after you. Buy  cheap buy twice.

And dont just buy off alpinetrek. Support the UK market.

For minimal hassle compared to clicking round on Ebay I would also second V12 Outdoors.  Had a full set of Cams from them last year and received some invaluable advice plus the bonus of them willing to price match a couple of items that were cheaper online.

They seem to have almost every possible climbing item from almost every manufacturer in stock, plus a load of cosmetic seconds from the DMM factory down the road.  You could combine a Saturday morning trip here with breakfast in Pete's Eats and then go on to do Little Tryfan in the afternoon (it doesn't catch the sun until the afternoon anyway).

Breakfast in Pete's Eats? They wont be able to get off the ground after that!

Errr yes good point!

Strong plan there!

It will provide ballast, and a sense of fortitude! Also a deep spiritual connection to British climbing heritage, transmitted through the medium of grease!

Sounds like that's breakfast and lunch sorted!!
While we're on the subject of refreshments, where would you send us for post climb pints?

I believe Plas Y Brenin at Capel may be open to the public for drinks etc

And the Siabod Cafe in Capel is excellent for food too.

Is Pen Y Gwryd worth a stop for a drink and to check out the history (will it be open?)? Tried to stop in back in January after a camping trip but it was shut (Sunday lunchtime ish)

Not been in there for years. Only because we usually stop elsewhere. 

Historical signatures of Himalayan mountaineers etc on the ceiling might still be there.

I think you could probably get up Little Tryfan in first gear if you take it steady.

Apologies for dragging this thread back from the dead.

Regarding rope, is 60m enough it should I be looking at 70m/80m. Bear in mind I'd like to future proof it as much as possible so I can use it in other areas of the UK.

Currently eyeing up decathlons 9.5 single. Price seems hard to beat unless anyone has seen any other sales/options?

Cheers

All of this is my opinion:

I'd stick with 60 because any route longer than that is probably going to need two pitches or more.  Tremadog is about that high and most of that is done in anywhere between two and five pitches.  For little Tryfan, I'd recommend doing most of the routes in two pitches if you know how to, because you'll need a lot of gear with you to protect the full length of the crag without having quite substantial run-out patches.  It's difficult to know how much to space your gear out, certainly if you're relatively new to trad leading, so I wouldn't be surprised if you lace the first 20m or so and then run out of extenders for the top section, which is when you'd want your gear closest to you to avoid a long fall.  

Whether you multipitch or not, try and space your gear rather than placing something wherever you can see a placement (because there's about three bomber placements for pretty much every move) and then running out the top section.  Also, if you haven't climbed there before it's difficult to tell initially where exactly the top is (it sort of gets gradually much easier until you're basically scrambling), so belay where the real difficulties stop and scramble up and off to the right from there.  If it's a nice day you'll probably be able to follow several people because it's a popular spot for teaching and for introducing people to outdoor climbing.  

Have a great time - it has a special place in my heart.

 I have two Beal Cobra II  8.6mm 60m ropes. Great for long meandering routes, or long abseils. Sometimes use just one doubled when at shorter crags. 

GO OUTDOORS were selling them recently at a good price.

As they say. "You can make a long axe short, but you can't make a short axe long".

Back in the day I instructed here with an old 120ft 11mm rope, so what is going on with talk of a 70/80metre ropes. You will be coiling it for hours. If you want to set up an ab then two 50's tied together with fisherman's or overhand is all that's required. I'm sure that not only Johnny Dawes could walk up this sans hands. A few nuts should suffice plus a couple of slings for setting up a belay. Keep it simple. Lots of gear just gets in the way, especially on a slab when it dangles in front of you, so obscuring where to place the feet. The more equipment, the more faffing! Besides all the gear shops are happy to impress that you will need all sorts of gear to cope with such an extreme ascent. They have to keep up with sales targets you know.

If you split the pitches your 30 metre rope might suffice if you are setting up belays halfway up the slab. Guidebook has it mostly as 24/25 metre pitches.

I would go for a 60m single rope which would enable you to climb all routes in a single pitch if you preferred to do that. However, as Lorna said, the slab does swallow gear so in addition to a full set of nuts (eg DMM Wallnuts 1-11) and some hexes I would recommend buying a set of Wild Country Superlight Offset nuts (pack of 6). These are incredibly versatile and cost approx £45, which is roughly the same price as a cam that you don’t need to use!

Some of the routes are 55m so make sure you’ve got plenty of quickdraws (min 8) plus a few slings. I’ve made a few ‘alpine draws’ using 60cm slings which are versatile and often prove handy. Having plenty of nuts also ensures that you’ve got enough of the correct size to build a solid belay at the top. 

My favourite route there is Stepped Crack so try to climb that one when you’re there. 

Enjoy!

Where's all the MIA trainees Gone? perfect opportunity here guys!

Anyway, agree with what most have said, with the exception of maybe the rope! I'm not a great fan of this trend of going for longer and longer ropes for trad, this all seams to have stemmed from sport climbers who want to be lowered all the way to the ground after the climb. What's wrong with the standard 50m? With the pro you've got, or about to buy you'l have run out of gear by 30m, unless your very bold! plus 10m extra is a lot of weight and a lot of extra back coiling, flaking out, space on the stance etc. As a novice to Trad I'd recommend a single 50m of somewhere near 9.5mm. Decathalon ropes are great value for money BTW, I have several. Oh and one other thing, but some 60cm slings, then you can make up some alpine draws/extenders using the wiregates from some quickdraws, or buy them separate, Another vote for V12 by the way.