UKC

Hello- I read the Glencoce - Classic Rock in 24 hrs thread and noticed this quite a bit. Curiosity follows.

I think I understand the general idea.  Climb together- placing gear / slings etc.

With bomber multidirectional gear pass the rope through a one-way device- micro-traxion. Which will the protect the leader if the second slips.

But how is this working in practice and how is the orientation of the device ensured? Does it rotate upwards as the leader leads- if it does is this an issue.

Many thanks in advance- Ed

Hi the microtraxion or other progress capture devices only allows the rope to feed in one direction. When the device rotates upwards due to the movement of the rope the toothed cam is generally not effected and will still engage on the rope of the second falls off. One of the most important aspects of using these devices is that there is no extension on the piece to which it is clipped (eg. Clipped directly into a bolt hanger/ ice screw with a screwgate or directly into the thumbloop of a cam if possible). Hope that helps if not by far the best resource for learning about simil-climbing I have found is this choss boys article which explains everything.

http://chossboys.weebly.com/outdoor-techniques/theory-of-simul-climbing

thanks- really helpful.

Seems very useful for moving on easy ice with safety greater than traditional system. I have only done that a couple of times on (near) vertical) as opposed to ridges, for example on the lower / mid pitches of Cascade near Banff. I could see that this would be ideal on the easier portions of long Alpine ice routes - which some might solo / move together on and others pitch. For example- N Face Tour Rond.  I think I'd really struggle on rock though, unless more of a v. exposed scramble- Alpine II-III type ground, where protection is as much for psychological purposes as anything else.

Have you ever had a second actually fall on a microtraxion setup like this? I'm aware of the theory but I'm still a bit sceptical - wouldn't you still get pulled off by the sudden jerk on the rope before the cam engages? I guess that's why limited extension is important, but even so I imagine you'd feel a tug. Or is rope stretch enough to protect you?

Leader feels absolutely nothing. For the second it's like a very bouncy toprope, so they need to be aware of kicking away from ledges. 

https://m.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Belaying-the-second-with-a-MICRO-TRAXION--b...

I've not tested it in anger (and have no intention of ever doing so), but you can easily test this without any falling or jeopardy. A quick play will show that no force is felt on the lead end of the rope. The Microtraxion is toothed and engages virtually instantly with no slippage, so no tug.

Yes, once deliberately jumping off a few times when I was second (I told the leader first....). Another time when my second fell off, I had no idea, I think they told me that evening or the next day! I think it was actually falls onto a Kong Duck, but same deal. It's really a great system, allows simuling on terrain that (for me) would be unjustifiable otherwise.

The cam engages really quickly, there's no appreciable slippage.

You're right that this is why limited extension from the piece to the microtraxion is important. Imagine if the microtrax was attached to the piece of gear by a 240cm sling or similar. When the leader is going upwards the microtrax is lifted up by the friction of the rope running upwards through it, so it's about 200-240cm above the piece of gear. If the second falls the microtrax will end up 240cm below the piece. So about 4m ish of slack removed from the rope between the piece and the leader, which definitely could/would be enough to pull the leader off. If the microtrax is attached to the piece by a screwgate then the amount of slack that's removed between the piece and the leader is only a little more than double the length of the screwgate, which isn't realistically going to be enough to bother the leader. This is all explained in the choss boys article Ian linked above (highly recommend), but just thought I'd put a quick explanation here.

Interesting idea! If you're planning on long pitches of moving together, would you take several devices? Otherwise the leader is only protected once they place the device and then not protected again as soon as the second gets to that piece. Imagine it's tricky to decide where to put it in this instance; you've basically got to choose which part of the pitch you're protected for. I guess you'd place it straight after a cruxy bit?

Yeah, most I've taken is 4. No reason you couldn't take more though if the route suited it.

Yeah, that's why having more than one is useful for longer 'pitches'. It works best on relatively clean faces so you can simul with a lot of rope out, so you can go as far as possible between devices.

Yeah, after cruxy bits is good. Tbh I mainly place them where they're most convenient, e.g. a peg or bolt (rather than a piece of trad gear) which is inline with the climbing so won't add lots of drag. Happily this is often after cruxy bits, given that lots of alpine routes have belays after cruxy bits anyway.

The leader can still place other protection, you don't need an ascender on every piece, but you would need several of them to move together for a longer time.

I meant more protected from getting pulled off by the second or from taking a monster whip on slack. You're not protected until you place it and then not again once your second gets to it and cleans it. 

Yes that's true. Seeing protected and leader in the same sentence made me think of them falling off, but it's the second falling off they're more protected from.

Bear in mind that if you climb from the ground (on belay) to 50m off the deck and place a traxion, then your second sets off and climbs to that piece, you'll have climbed a 100m 'pitch'. Hence if you have 2 you can climb 150m 'protected', and so on. 

Obvs you might want less rope out and you might consider other variables when placing them, but you get the idea of how far and fast you can climb with this technique. 

And if you've made a glaciated approach in the Alps, a Microtraxion is an enormous aid to any crevasse rescue system — so if you and your partner both carry one for that purpose, you'll already have two between you anyway.