UKC

I have often wondered if my geographical perception of the variance of the heat of Indian food was governed by my initially uninitiated tongue, which would later have less ability to perceive spice heat in food with as much sensitivity.

I first had Indian food when I went to Glasgow University, eating mainly somewhere around Gibson street, including the Koh-I-Noor which fell down over one Christmas holiday, into the Kelvin River.   It seemed very hot to me, especially on the first occasion, when I had a gut full of pints of heavy and 80/-.

When I had food in the nearest town to me, Huddersfield, it was still reasonably hot, but not as hot as in Glasgow. Since then I have always had the sense that Indian food is less "hot", the further south you go. Certainly that also happens if you go from Indian restaurant food and Indian Take-aways, to food bought in the supermarket.

What do others find?

In reply to veteye:

The further you are from Bradford, the tamer the curry. 

In reply to bouldery bits:

I've eaten in Bradford in the past, and Leeds, with the latter at the time possibly being a little hotter, but neither features in my memory being as capable of incapacitating my tongue as the supply of Indian food from Glasgow, and environs.

In reply to veteye:

Interesting, I found the Glasgow curry to be relatively moderate. 

The Glasgow kebab, however, is a thing of wonder. Why is the chilli sauce weird and creamy? Why are the polystyrene trays there seemingly totally different dimensions? Why is it served on a WHOLE NAAN BREAD? That's right people, not a lightly puffed pitta, not some disappointing chips, no. A proper, pillowy naan bread. It's just so good. 

All of these are positives in my book. 

Apologies for the thread jacking,

BB

In reply to veteye:

I live in the south - UK (not India), I tend to find curry tamer than it used to be too (tabasco too), without having to move around. Have to ask for everything to be madras hot to get close to a medium curry as far as heat goes. Not sure its a North south thing, just curry chefs are getting softer - maybe been away from homelands longer? Which is strange as available to purchase chillis seem to be getting hotter on the bucket of water scale (I forget the name). I also suspect the paying public are a little less bland on their tastes than in the meat and 2 veg last century - so cant be dumming it down for the masses?.

When I do curry further North, I have not noticed any massive difference. You always get some variety from establishment to establishment. adds adventure. 
 

My young son however thinks tabasco is excruciatingly hot. Much like I remember my first foray into heat (and tabasco). Maybe I've fried my tongue? Cos the next day is often still the same as its always been. 

Brother really struggles with it. He'll insult the waiters just to get a hotter curry. Hes a bit braver in more than one direction than I am. 

In reply to veteye:

I had the least spicy curry of my life in Inverness.  

In reply to veteye:

India is a very large county, and their taste for spices varies from state to state. Maybe immigrants from certain parts of India cluster in certain parts of UK and that is reflected in how hot Indian food appears to be across the UK. 

In reply to DaveHK:

You you were on a hyperborean overshoot.

Inverness is obviously the UK Indian blandsville.

Glasgow's the centre of Indian food devilish fires. Inverness just purgatorially gastronomically uninspiring (?).  :-}

In reply to Stefan Jacobsen:

You could well be right.

In reply to veteye:

I've not noticed any pattern to be honest. Certain restaurants definitely calibrate their scales differently (eg I equate a 'medium' at one local Indian to between 'hot' and 'very hot' at another), so wonder if a perception of it changing in general is just down to random chance and a small sample size?

Thinking about it, it does seem like curries were hotter in general when I was a kid, but that may just have been because I was used to the heat then, or my taste buds have changed maybe.

Scientific study needed! If anyone fancies giving me some money to do some proper research then I'll systematically sample curries in all corners of Britain and put together some proper data :p

In reply to veteye:

I have a choice of "Indian" Restaurants run by people of Bangladeshi and Pakistani origin or heritage, but with a predominantly white clientele, or restaurants run by people of Bangladeshi and Pakistani origin or heritage, for people of Bangladeshi and Pakistani origin or heritage. Where there is menu overlap, the latter is significantly hotter than the former.

In reply to veteye:

In traditional style, here's something else.

Australian sh1t the bed sauce.  One for the connoisseur.

There's also a stronger, Black, sauce.  One for those wishing not to taste much for some time afterwards, possibly measured in months.

T.

In reply to bouldery bits:

Why did I read that in Billy Connelly's voice ?

In reply to The New NickB:

As you've mentioned many 'Indian" restaurants are not actually run by Indians. The ones that are, tend to do dishes like dhosa, chaat, puri etc. They usually have a good range of vegetarian dishes.

What we get in the UK is BIR (British Indian Restaurant) food (google will tell you more). Food sorta from the Indian sub continent, made by Bangladeshi cooks, served in Pakistani owned restaurants.

You're not getting the owners family recipes, handed down over generations. You're getting a commercial product, made in bulk, that can be cooked quickly. The dishes are based on pre cooked ingredients and some base sauces that can be modified easily. Its surprising in the consistency of dishes. A Korma at one end of the country, tastes pretty similar to one at the other end.

I've noticed a blandness in some curry houses. The sauces are smooth and dont feature any veg, just the main ingredient. The same sauce gets used in multiple dishes, bombay potato and madrass, for example. I expect they get fewer complaints if a dish isn't spicy enough, than if it is too spicy and people cant eat it.

Top Tip: If you want a spicy version of a dish say 'can you make it spicy, its for a bet!'

In reply to veteye:

Well, there's always the Dorset Naga Jolokia. Not exactly a chili for pussies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naga_Morich

You don't get much more south than Dorset. Well, in the UK, anyway...

In reply to dread-i:

Which aren't necessarily bastard hot. Not IME of eating food cooked to family recipes, for families.

In reply to veteye:

Your premise is wrong.

India is a hugely varied country, and it has a huge variety of regional cuisines. If you are seriously interested, then you need to ignore what you think of as 'Indian' cooking as found in British 'curry houses.'

The same general comment applies to UK ideas of 'Chinese food.'

In reply to Rob Parsons:

My premise was not based on what I think of as food solely coming from the Indian subcontinent. It was based on the fact that there is a food garnered in most parts of the UK which is down as, if you like, "Indian" in inverted commas, which has been worked like putty into the defect in a window frame, into the British mix of life. It consists of some names which are familiar in some degree to most people. It was not aimed at a self-righteous "better cuisine than yours", expectation. It was a comment of the variation in the degree of spicy-heat for the same broad style of cuisine across different temporal coordinates and geographical loci, within the United Kingdom.

I expected a little light-hearted discussion of variance in the way that different examples of supposedly the same food had a different effect on the tongue.

In reply to captain paranoia:

Im growing the Dorset Naga from seeds together with about 30 other varieties this year, including the California Reaper. These things are bonkers but great in jams. 

In reply to veteye:

This is true. When I lived in Glasgow there were lots of good curry shops to choose from. Inverness has a few but they are really poor. The sad thing is lots of residents don't know just how poor and will rave about the quality of places that just serve up brightly coloured generic slop.

In reply to veteye: the vast majority of “Indian” restaurants or takeaways in the UK are not Indian but Bangladeshi. Many customers would not actually had real Indian ( as it is known since partition) food.

some years ago I was fortunate to have work trips touring India and its Horlicks factories; they love the stuff and have factories spread around the country. The food was varied and very enjoyable but not like the “real” Indian food I enjoyed back home.

it’s only when I had a work trip to Chittagong in Bangladesh that I was entertained with the food that I associated with UK’s “Indian “ restaurants and takeaways. Since then I enjoy chatting to the waiters and staff asking where they or their families originate from, always confirming Bangladesh

In reply to kevin stephens:

And likewise the Bangladeshi have revealed their origins in our area too. Usually they're an amiable bunch.

In reply to DaveHK:

So hyperboreanically, does it get worse in Orkney and Shetland? Or does Indian food just die out?

In reply to dread-i:

There seems to be an increasing number of South Indian or Keralan restaurants opening up. As you say, they offer quite a different (and tastier) menu to standard curry house fare, especially when it comes to vegetarian options. One of them, Theravadu in Leeds, does the most amazing range of breads, including these incredible flaky buttery parathas that are making me drool just thinking of them!

Living on the outskirts of Bradford I'm lucky enough to have 3-4 within 25 minutes of travel, though sadly (or fortunately for my waistline) none close enough for takeaway.

In reply to veteye:

Judging by French 'Indian' restaurants you might be right. I can think of one exception but apparently that's run by some Afghans & not the usual Bangladeshis.

In reply to veteye:

Risky business going for a curry in Orkney.

In reply to veteye:

I wouldn't say Scottish curries and stronger than you find in parts of London.

In reply to Kevster:

Assuming that you haven't just gradually killed off your taste buds with too many phalls, I'd say it's more likely to be about the British demographics who go for curry these days and less about the chefs' tastes - maybe more people nowadays treat curry as a nice treat for the family and not just a test of manliness for pissed-up lager lads?

In reply to Ramblin dave:

I'd assume that something similar is behind regional variations in heat level - ie Glasgow lager lads are harder than Winchester lager lads - although I'd believe that there's something in the idea that you'll get generally better (not necessarily hotter) curry if you aren't far from a place with a big South Asian community, even if the restaurant you're actually in isn't mostly catering to that community...

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

I think I prefer strawberries in my jam...

In reply to climbingpixie:

Lots of cafe style places (stainless steel multi-compartment tray stylee) in Reading. Catering to their own community as well as the wider community. Good, cheap and friendly. Can be a bit hot for me, but I'm southern, obviously...

In reply to Kevster:

The Scoville scale.  The Black sauce I mentioned comes in at 99,000 units.  I wouldn't go hotter myself.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoville_scale

T.

In reply to veteye:

I live in West London which has one of the biggest and most varied South Asian communities in the UK and a lot of very good South Asian restaurants. Some of it is quite mild, some of it is very hot, it really just depends on the restaurant and the dish. Nearly all of it is very good because there are hundreds of thousands of discerning consumers. If you want to experience the genuine range and quality of the subcontinent without getting on a plane, then London is where you have to go I'm afraid. A view shared by plenty of desi foodies: https://vittles.substack.com/p/60-south-asian-dishes-every-londoner?s=r

I'm also part of a Sri Lankan family via my partner and I regret (note do not really regret) to inform you that for us North Indian food counts as very delicious but fairly mild.

In reply to Tony Buckley:

Indeed. Im a massive chilli fan and grow a wide variety of mild to devilishly hot 1k shu to ^1.5mshu. I have eaten 300k habs whole before and they make me drool for about half an hour. I tried a small slither of a home grown ghost chili last year (c900k shu). 

Holy moly.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Which begs the question of why anyone would want anything this spicy? In my enormously tame experience anything more than a mild tingle overwhelms any other flavour, making ingredients’ taste and texture redundant.

Not to mention leaving me weeping and snot-nosed for the rest of the meal

In reply to nufkin:

Someone has to provide the ingredients for pepper spray.

T.

In reply to nufkin:

There's a chili arms race which is fun to watch. We in the uk are doing pretty well too.

I use ferociously hot chillis in things but they have to be diluted. There's a bunch of cultivars called 7 Pot Primo/Bubblegum/Doulagh etc named because 1 chili would satisfy 7 pots. There's no fun in heat over flavour, that's true.

In reply to veteye:  Two spiciest things I've ever experienced were a chefs special stuffed paratha in Sheffield, and the lunchtime goat stew provided for a buffet in Lagos.  The former was served by mistake as it was indeed the chef's lunch.

I'd agree with the sentiment that the SE Asian food in West London is very variable in 'heat', and very, very good.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Same, I grow a variety of hot to superhot plants each year. The really hot ones get made into a sauce which lasts until next year!

In reply to veteye:

When did you go to uni? I found that 30 years ago when I was in uni most of the Indians focused on heat and cheap meats rather than flavour. Remember large square blocks of what was labeled chicken? Now we have chains like Dishoom and other good independent curry houses that focus has somewhat shifted to flavour and quality. 

There's also the weird correlation between eating hot curries and being strong and tough. My 25 year old can out chili me by some degree, but as I'm almost a foot taller and 50kg heavier than her I would win an arm wrestle any day. Glasgow and Bradford are two prime examples of the hard-as-nails-because-I-can-eat-a-vindaloo places. 

In reply to Le Sapeur:

^^This! Not sure any of those big tough lads could hold a candle to my 4’11 mother in law when it comes to spicy food. 

In reply to captain paranoia:

I bewail the loss of the Standard Tandoori on Caversham Rd. I can't cope with a hot crry, but kormas are too sweet. The Standard was run by Nepalese folks and the korma was different every time, depending what mood the chef was in, never sweet, sometimes almost too hot for me.

I see a new Nepalese place has now opened there, haven't tried it yet.

In reply to veteye:

I once tried the Koh-I-Noor Lamb Vindaloo. It was over 40 years ago. I am still recovering from it.

In reply to Stefan Jacobsen:

Not really- almost all 'Indian' restaurants are owned and run by Bangladeshi people- usually from Sylhet and most of the dishes are heavily Anglicised.

Try a Sri Lankan crab curry

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

For a few years I grew a variety of superhot chilies from 'The World of Chilies- plug plants- very good. 7 pot, Bhut Joloika, Carolina Reapers, Nagas and Armageddon (the latter possibly being the unconfirmed hottest).  I have sometimes made chilli sauce. Magma- very easy. Equal parts super hot chilis and mango, some sugar, some cider vinegar, lime juice, some salt, assorted spices (cumin, corriander, etc) boil, a bit of leaf coriander- put in sterilized jars or bottles. Unfortunately the fumes are the tricky bit. Uncontrollable coughing in all parts of the house for about a week. It is best done outside. I still have quite a bit left- I usually get people to just try a tiny drop on the end of a toothpick. It is a bit like sucking a soldering iron. I then have a chortle.

In reply to freeheel47:

Really...?

I'm sure the assorted spices and coriander make all the difference...

In reply to bouldery bits:

By this metric, the curries in India must be some of the mildest in the world.

In reply to veteye:

Out of interest, has anyone here tried a Phaal?

Sounds absolutely deadly (and originates from Birmingham, shifting the epicentre of hot curries by some 125 miles!)

In reply to broken spectre:

I wouldn't forget Leicester in this discussion.

The tamest curry in the world for me was in St Helens, one of the whitest towns in the country at the time.

In reply to SouthernSteve:

My abiding memory of visiting a curry house in St Helens isn't of the food, but that the music they played included a version of the wombling song on a sitar.

This would be back in the mid eighties and I think it was the only Indian restaurant in the town at the time.  As you say, it wasn't an ethnically diverse place.

T.

In reply to veteye:

Worst Indian meal I ever had was in the Buenos Aires. A great city for food, but not Indian food. It wasn’t my idea. It was part of a great night out, so I won’t complain too much.

In reply to veteye:

I don't understand the obsession with extreme heat. It's such a crude way to flavour food. I much prefer gentle heat, just lifting a dish in which cardamon, for example, is to the fore.

The Chinese Dragon's Tongues I grew last year and am again this year are wonderful. They are easily dried on a low oven heat. They look great in a big jar and are easily crumbled into any dish, lifting it without dominating it.

In reply to veteye:

Yes, it does get worse.  

In reply to broken spectre:

I've had a couple of them.  A candle only burns at one end.

In reply to mbh:

I agree that too hot can be totally detrimental to the taste experience: But certain "Indian" meals give me a better experience w a little more bite to them than is found in some restaurants.

It depends on where the balance is for you, between adding a little more from the spice generator, and blowing your good experience away with misery and burning discomfort. The heat is not just about the taste, it adds another dimension, which is slightly out of phase with the taste. In fact it is temporally as well, as the receptors for this, seem to be wired up by slower neurons to the brain.