UKC

Hey all, I'm starting to build my trad rack on a very limited budget and looking for some do it all quickdraws that would also work reasonably well for sport.  Does anyone have any thoughts on which ones to go for? 
DMM spectre seem like the obvious choice (in 18cm length), but they're quite pricey. Is anything cheaper out there that would do the job?

I'd get whatever you can find on the best discount. It really doesn't make as much difference as many folk will lead you to believe. In another 5 years time when you know what you are doing and what you want, you might have a job that means you can afford more fancy ones.

For "do it all" ones, I'd look for keylock plaingates on the gear end (easier to get off old school bolts when lowering off sport routes) and wiregates on the rope end. Mammut, BD and probably some others do QDs like that. I'd see what Go Outdoors or Decathlon have cheapest, but specialist climbing shops have good deals sometimes too. V12 Llanberis do DMM cosmetic seconds sometime which can be great value. Rock and Run have good deals etc.

My suggestion would be make sure the carabiners in whatever you get would be suitable for trad quickdraw slings (which often have fairly narrow rope end loops, where rubber retainers are; DMM ones certainly do). Then in 5 years time or whathaveyou, you can repurpose them into dedicated trad quickdraws, and get some sport draws then.

[late thought] Or of course, do the converse! Buy quickies with chunky carabiners now to be repurposed as sport draw in future, and get thinner 'trad' ones then.

What actually is the difference between trad and sport quickdraws, or is it just a bit of marketing to get you to buy two sets? I do have a set of "sport draws" but really only so that I don't damage the krabs on my usual quickdraws on the bolts. But they are quite a bit heavier - wouldn't matter if I was a proper redointing sportsclimber, but since I almost entirely onsight, I sometimes wonder if it makes sense for me.

Other than having some longer ones for trad draws have got to be one of the least specialised bits of kit. So while it's nice to have 2 sets it's really not necessary.

Chunky nylon tapes are easier to grab and yard on than skinny 8mm dyneema when you're working a route, and full size solid gate krabs are less likely to hang up on bolts in weird ways then poky little trad wiregates. 

But yep, having two sets is definitely a luxury. 

Funnily enough, one of my partners has long sports draws and if he leads the same route after me, will even take my short ones off as he goes and replace them with his long ones (claims it reduces drag, which I don't really get on a straight line of bolts). As far as I am concerned, the shorter the better because it means I won't fall as far!

I snapped up a set of ocun hawk quickdraws a while back they are usually easy to find cheap, as a jack of all trades they work well as supplements to both my trad and sport draws, quality seems really good too. 

I'm the same, having two sets but totally accept it is a luxury. I do take a few falls sport climbing although being a wuss, not huge numbers! So my sport draws are a bit more chewed up at the bolt end. I have some mates who despite being very experienced don't seem bothered about rope end/gear end krabs, and my trad/winter/ice draws tend to be wiregates - sometimes the same model krab at both ends - so sport climbing draws with straight gate/bent gate makes it much clearer which way round I want my draws used at least! Basic wiregates also can hang up on old school bolts more readily than plain gates too.

I like slightly beefy big krabs and fat tapes for sport, just like I'm happier with my 10.2 rope than on a single 9, even though rationally I know both are safe. So I don't care about my sport draws being heavier and bulkier as at least the sport crags I go to tend not to be epic walks, but walking up the Ben or to Scafell I'm happy for my gear to be as light as possible! 

I prefer wiregates for my all-rounders as well because I used to pure ice climb a lot, and still winter climb in the UK when I can and wiregates freeze up less than plain gates in my experience.

But it's all marginal gains type stuff, so OP - like originally said, don't worry too much about it. Having enough is your no.1 safety consideration before all those little things! Hence cheap and more is better than fancy but fewer.

I've just been looking at some shops I use to see what deals they have - this looks the cheapest so far for nice krabs https://rockrun.com/collections/quickdraws/products/black-diamond-hotforge-... a few quid more and you can get the plain gate top end wire gate rope end version which are really nice and adaptable quickdraws. 

As others have said, any quickdraw will do both jobs; however, short draws with chunky tapes will do a pretty good job of unseating nuts - so if buying one set for both jobs, I'd make the priority protecting those trad runners by using thinner, longer tapes. Something like the 18cm Spectres would be ideal, and would also work fine for sport.

You might want one or two shorter ones for those odd occasions where a few extra cms of fall is a critical issue; e.g. the first two bolts on some sport routes, and also consider a couple of slingdraws for trad, to extend off-line runners.

At the risk of stating the obvious, make sure you always use your draws the same way up, especially on sport - the top crab can get quite a beating, and you want to reserve the nice, smooth surface for your rope.

The other day I was at Tremadog and saw Steve Mac taking his kids up The Plumb using a sport rope and a load of fat Petzl quickdraws. You quite often see photos from the not-too-distant past of the wads of the day leading trad on very sporty-looking draws (see Steve on Choronzon for example).

On the other hand, floppy 'trad' dogbones can be safer for sport as they're less likely to unclip themselves from the rope or bolt. 

I think the main difference is length (sport tend to be shorter), 'floppyness' (sport tend to be more rigid), and durability (sport tends to be a bit chunkier, and because of that, heavier). 

For me, the ideal allrounder would be a light but solid-gate gear-end krab (feels chunkier and more robust for ragging on bolts, has a cleaner nose than wire-gate so won't snap itself), a 16cm dyneema 'dogbone' (floppy and light enough for carrying a few on trad), and a light wire-gate rope-end krab. 

Really good advice here. Thank you

Hadn't thought of that. Good shout!

Mega, cheers for the recommendation

Yeah, I'm allocating cash for 4 alpine draws too, so hopefully I'll have enough of them to avoid unseating nuts on most routes. 

As was noted above you can repurpose the carabiners later - I'd go for something with solid carabiners first and worry about lightweight for a specialist set later. I once left some lightweight trad draws on a popular sport project for a couple of weeks and the two on the crux got retired - sport specific carabiners last ages.

I used to have a set of Simond draws for sport that were long and a bit too floppy to be the ideal dedicated sport draw - but that would be a bonus for an all round set. 

I've replaced the tapes since, but the carabiners are still in good nick after a lot of use (and abuse) projecting routes. 

This looks like the closest to them now:

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/climbing-and-mountaineering-quickdraw-klimb-m...