UKC

People can be seen wearing belay glasses at climbing walls and I think I may be misunderstanding why. My assumption is that they are worn to stop tilting the head back so the belayer can look up at the leader and hold that position for the duration of the climb. This can lead to an aching neck and belay glasses solve that problem.

When we do lead climbing at the wall it's often regarded as a training exercise and one aim is to make muscles stronger and build stamina; in the arms and shoulders for example. If the head is tilted back when belaying then neck muscles are involved in that. Can't they be trained to hold the tilted position for longer and so avoid an ache? Is there something else going on that means this thought is not appropriate? I'm curious about this and think I'm misunderstanding something.

Check out the neck on this guy

You're overthinking this. Watching the leader from start to finish is really bad for your neck - that strained position is something to avoid. The glasses mean that you can watch the leader from start to finish with no pain or discomfort. Anecdotally, people who don't use glasses don't pay as much attention. I use them at the crag too, whether it's sport or trad. Big crags like Pembroke and Gogarth are especially good places to use these things.

If you fancy training your neck that way,  go for it. Me, I'll stick to my belay glasses! 

I personally hate people using belay glasses to belay me indoors. They give a distorted perspective for the first few clips and in my view make decking extremely more likely. Indoor walls are so short they're not necessary. In my view at least.

Outside I wear them if the crag is big. But I won't slide them on until the climber is three or four clips up. 

Exactly. You just have them on the end of your nose (or within reach) for the first few clips, then stick them on as the climber is out of the danger zone and your neck is starting to hurt. It’s not rocket science. I love them. Got a pair a few years ago from Decathlon for about £16 I think. Best money spent there in ages. 

I have to disagree with this. Belay glasses are appropriate to some styles of rock / sector but an unnecessary luxury. All belaying issues can be resolved with appropriate communication and / or simply rope tension control - which is all you have on some sectors eg. esp multipitch when the leader has disappeared round a corner / over a bulge.

It's nice to understand what the leader is up to - just look up occasionally and rest your neck otherwise.

If you've got a badly arthritic neck they are really quite helpful

Personally, having experienced and given rise to 1-2 hour stints of belaying at Kilnsey and Malham, I'd say belay glasses are near essential for days of sport RPing. Whenever I've had a prolonged RP go with a belayer who disawows belay glasses, I inevitably look down and find they are resting their neck and not paying attention.

I see countless belayers (indoors /outdoors) with belay glasses, grigris, all paying lots of attention ... with big loops of slack ! This is not satisfactory for me. Attention to the tension is in the fingers - if the leader learns the right timing to shout Rope! then everybody has better control at the moment of clipping.

As a physio I would say they are worth it. Really you want to avoid spending ages in any position other than ‘neutral’. It’s a bit like the debate about standing desks Vs sitting - the real key is changing position regularly, but having a setup that puts minimal strain on your back/ neck is important. General posture is also important - if you have a rounded upper back and chin poke, looking up to belay for long periods is only going to make aches and pains worse and in the long run may cause arthritis/neuropathy. That said, I find that I end up tilting my head back even when wearing glasses if the climb is very steep. So be mindful of this. I’ve seen someone with adjustable ones where you can tilt the prisms, so this may help fix that issue. 

Agreed! As good as it is to pay attention to the leader it is arguably more important to pay attention to the rope and the amount of slack, with pretty frequent checks upwards. It's all well and good watching the climber intently while they think about moves but you really aren't doing your neck or the leader any favours.

If I have to shout "rope" every time I clip and there's constantly tension on the rope, my belayer is shortroping me. Imagine having to do a route with dynamic moves in those condiditions, you'd be pulled off.

Just because you aren't constantly watching the climber does not mean you will short rope them. If you leave an appropriate amount of slack at all times and pay attention to the rope tension, you won't need to shout every time. Communication doesn't just mean shouting each time you mean slack, it is being able to let your partner know how much slack is appropriate for all times.

Obviously look at your partner and keep an eye on them, but you don't need to look at them every second of the climb. 

But if you read the message I actually responded to, it's precisely what Lee described. Besides, anticipating what move the leader is about to do is key to knowing what to do with the rope.

I understand that is what Lee described, I am personally saying it is not always necessary. Of course looking at the climber and anticipating the move is important, I am just making the point that it is not necessary to bend your neck back and watch the climber for the whole pitch.

I am thinking more in terms of trad climbing, which might be partly why there is disagreement. Indoors I would be watching for most of the climb, giving my neck a rest during easier sections of climbing.

There are plenty of cases while trad climbing where it is also impossible to see the climber, so learning good rope tension and feeling the movement of the climber through the rope is a very important skill.

Absolutely, along with how run out they are, any ledges they might hit/need to avoid, etc etc. I don't see how anyone can really argue against something that helps you watch the leader more closely. It seems like a win-win when you consider this along with the benefits to your neck as Isabelle Booker says above

Yeah, I'm approaching this from a sportclimbing perspective, trad is a different story as a lot of the time they cannot be seen at all. When sport climbing, the right time to have to shout "slack" is never.

I completely agree, sport climbing is a different story altogether, especially since the likelihood of falling is much higher. I want to make it clear too that I am not trying to argue completely against belay glasses.

Indoors they are a great idea and for sport climbing I think they definitely have their place, I just personally think that for people who are getting into climbing it is more beneficial to learn tactile rope work before buying glasses.

Part of it might be the fact that on the few occasions that I have worn them, they have made me feel quite disoriented and a little unwell.

Same with me. I bought a pair and abandoned them. Does it get better if you persevere?

Also, I am told I have a posture issue with my neck bent forward, so I tell myself that bending it back while belaying is good therapy. But maybe thus is wishful thinking.

It should do. The brain gets used to them pretty quickly. It didn’t take me any longer to get used to belay glasses than it did to get used to my reading glasses, which also made me feel pretty unwell initially.

It's likely to be wishful thinking unless you are straightening your upper back as you look up - most people with a hyperkyphotic posture just add a sort of s-bend to the neck when they look up  (see Isabelle's post above).

In my yoga for climbers classes I usually include a section on posture for belaying - if you're interested there's some tips on my website (the posture tips are towards the end of the page):

https://verticalyoga.org/2021/08/19/yoga-for-mindful-belaying/

As Stuart Williams said above, it should do. It's a bit like driving on the other side of the road when you're abroad.

For me, the most disorientating phase would be when the person leading is near the ground. So I don't use them there. 

I have the belay glasses over my neck, and ease them on when the person leading is either just by the second or just by the third bolt. When lowering, I ease them off when the person is getting near the ground (again usually by around the second or third bolt). With sport, I'm always using a Grigri and paying good heed to it, i.e. I'm not advocating dodgy belaying practices on the changeover!

I could eliminate the easing on/off by peering over the specs but don't want to. Instead I want a strict standard operating procedure that works for me. And this one does.  

I was probably OK without belay glasses until about 60, when my neck well and truly seized up after a good 45 years belaying. These days, can't imagine lasting five minutes at somewhere like Kilnsey without 'em! 

A mixture of using them and (careful) exercises has helped my neck dramatically. 

Would suggest you give them another go. I use the Decathlon ones 'cos they're cheap and I'm Mr Clumsy. I accept some people just can't get on with them but belaying with a bad neck isn't a whole bundle of fun either. 

Hope this helps!

Mick 

Using them with glasses was a pain in the neck too (not literally).

You've proved my point about the lack of attention that's paid by belayers without these glasses. You don't think it's necessary to do more than occasionally look up at your leader, whilst keeping their ropes snug. You paint a picture of yourself as an inattentive belayer whose leader is often fighting for slack to clip their runners. Instead of paying attention, you advocate this weird "rope tension control". I wish your partners luck.

I've found putting them on but resting them at the end of my nose works best for me. Once my leader is a couple of clips up I can then push them up to the bridge of my nose and look through them. Maybe it's because I've often got a hairband or a hat on but I find it a bit of a fumble putting them on from around my neck mid-belay.

I think I was only 30 when I bought a pair! It was inspired by getting mega neck ache in the Gorges du Tarn from two weeks of craning my head up to look up the steep crags. Wouldn't be without them now and have even started taking them trad climbing. I definitely find it easier to watch my leader if I'm not fighting with belaying pain!

The only potential risk I do notice with them is that it's easy to get so focused on what's going on above that you can lose track of the things below. That might be trip hazards (shoes, a rope bag, rocks etc) but, more importantly, I don't naturally see the amount of slack that's out unless I specifically look down to check. This was rarely an issue when I used them purely for sport but it does require a bit more attention when using them with half ropes on trad.

Definitely. I felt a bit seasick when I first tried them but got used to it quite quickly. Funnily enough, I borrowed a friend's pair recently (different make to mine) and the seasickness reappeared immediately so it would appear that not all glasses are the same.

I've got a pair of clip on belay glasses that go onto my regular glasses. They flip up and down so I can flip them up when belaying closer to the ground and lowering near the floor with a single finger. Not cheap but worth every penny. 

But being able to tell when people might fall by there behaviour (and other useful cues) is information not communicated by the rope. Also, if they fall off and you've got a bit of rope drag, how will you know they've fallen before the rope starts coming tight? 

All of the arguments against belay glasses presume that people who use them don't know how to manage a rope and use rope 'communication' to manage when the climber goes out of sight. 

Personally, I'd want a belayer who pays attention visually, belays well and can read a rope.. 

I think I may have jumbled what I was trying to say a bit. I think there are lots of aspects of belaying that make a safe partner, and all of them are important. Watching your partner and understanding when they need slack, are stressed etc is very important in conjunction with all other aspects, and I think using belay glasses (for me) stop me from giving focus to these other areas.

I think belay glasses definitely have a place, especially in sport and indoor climbing. From a trad perspective it is obviously still important to watch your partner and be attentive, but that is not always possible nor always necessary (up to your discretion and varies on every situation). 

I do not think belay glasses are inappropriate for trad, I just don’t think they make you more attentive, especially when there is more in that situation to belaying than just watching. This is all personal preference anyway, if glasses work for you they work for you, they just don’t for me.

The reduced peripheral vision is both a feature and a bug. It focuses your attention on the leader but, as you say, you need to have noted your immediate surroundings before putting on your glasses. Manageable with a little fore-thought. Belay glasses might make it harder to avoid falling rocks or dropped quickdraws, hopefully a theoretical concern the vast majority of the time.

I've not noticed the optical effects reported but I was an early adopter and have one of the original reassuringly expensive types. I hope this means a higher quality prism. Those who have struggled could try borrowing a different brand?

As an old and decrepit sport climber, belay glasses have been a game-changer for me for belaying prolonged working sessions. I wouldn't use them for a two minute redpoint. I make a choice on a case-by-case basis when belaying onsight sport or trad.: depends on the angle of rock, trip hazards of the belay area, potential loose rock, whether my leader is known as a cheetah or a sloth, and how my neck is feeling today.