UKC

On 25th January 2018 Elisabeth Revol (France) and Tomek Mackiewicz (Poland) reached the summit of Nanga Parbat 8,126m in Karakoram, Pakistan. The French-Polish team climbed the Messner-Eisendle-Tomaseth route in "alpine style", with minimal support and equipment and without oxygen. Unfortunately, Tomek became ill after summitting and their descent turned into a rescue ordeal that is as yet inconclusive, with Elisabeth undergoing treatment for frostbite in France and Tomek officially reported missing on the mountain.

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In reply to UKC News:

That is properly heroic, heart breaking stuff.

In reply to UKC News:

Thank you for this report Ola.

In reply to orcnys:

No problem!

This will go down as one of the most daring and impressive big mountain rescues ever performed. The decision not to try for Tomek, though difficult, seems like the best decision under the circumstances. Oh, and I'm surprised UKC didn't have this story much earlier.

 

In reply to UKC News:

This is very tragic... escpecially for Tomek and being left behind...

Am I the only one that is kind of like what the F*%&?  That is crazy first to leave someone just to help yourself.  In mountaineering spirit I think this is way off the mark and even more strange that a similar thing happened with Revol in 2009...  Seems to me there are a lot of flags here and questions that need to be answered.  There are so many stories of people that want to fight, making a recovery, and coming down alone.  Of course there is the opposite but isn't better to try then try and 'just' save yourself?  Something about this whole thing seems fishy to me.  

I hope Tomek the best and to his family...very sad stuff.

In reply to Thatoneguy:

That comment comes across as ignorant of just how difficult and risky it can be to get someone down from high altitude. 

In reply to Thatoneguy:

We don't know yet the details of what happened. If Tomek was incapacitated, it would have been all but impossible to bring him down, especially in the condition Revol was in. There's a reason that all those bodies in the high mountains are still up there. I think it's premature to start making any accusations.

In reply to Rad:

As so often with UKC news, there was an earlier  thread, although in this case the title didn't obviously link to the story -  https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/expedition+alpine/while_i_drink_my_coffee...

In reply to Thatoneguy:

No-one doubts that.

But it's just not as simple as 'leaving someone'. He was c.1,000m higher up the mountain, and possibly already beyond help. That's a lot at that altitude, on that terrain, and in winter. When this was unfolding at the weekend, I just couldn't see how they'd be able to get to him and get him down, so was sorry but not surprised when they said they couldn't. It's terribly sad, but shouldn't detract in any way from the stunning rescue of Elisabeth Revol.

In reply to Thatoneguy:

Next time you're up in mountains - say on the top of Helvellyn - knock your mate unconscious, then try and get him back down on your own with no other assistance.

Whilst your struggling to physically carry/drag him down, imagine you're on an 8000 metre peak in winter.

Imagine you're already exhausted and suffering from frostbite. You're in the teeth of a raging storm with temperatures of  - 60 and 70mph winds.

You know that you can't sit it out and wait to be airlifted off, because helicopters can't fly to that altitude. You also know that the chances of surviving a night in the open are pretty much zero.

So what do you do?

Stay with your mate and both die, or try and get down yourself?

There's nothing remotely heroic or courageous in dying pointlessly in the mountains.

If you choose to climb an 8000 metre peak in winter, in alpine style, without suplimentary o2, and it all goes tits up, then that's just the nature of the game you chose to play.

Basically, it's tough shit. 

As for the team who came over from K2 to help try and rescue them, well, that actually is both heroic and courageous.

 

 

An interview with Elisabeth Revol (in French)

http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article/2018/02/01/l-alpiniste-elisabeth-revol-...

 

In reply to Michael Gordon:

I can admit I am ignorant about high altitude but I have plenty of experience in Polar conditions... It just doesn't make sense to me.  The rescue itself was amazing and unbelievable!  I am not blaming the rescuers at all as they did their best and were super... Just strange from Revols part... And makes it more strange that the same situation happened twice.  

In reply to Thatoneguy:

I give you "Touching the Void", and probably more relevant, "The Endless Knot", as counter points.

In reply to GrahamD:

Aren't those examples of how not to be? I am not familiar with the endless knot... but know touching the void

In reply to Thatoneguy:

You said it

In reply to UKC News:

Nanga Parbat is actually at the Western end of the Himalaya for the record, not in the Karakoram. 

In reply to Doug:

The horrible situation and the decision she had to make comes across even in the automated translation:

"In Tomek she leaves then, she says simply: "Listen, the helicopters arrive in the late afternoon, I am obliged to go down , they will come to recover you" . She sends the GPS point of her position, protects her friend as well as possible and, persuaded of a happy outcome, leaves "without taking anything , neither tent, nor down, nothing" . "Because the helicopters arrived in the late afternoon," she retires. But they did not arrive."

"The future, Elisabeth Revol tackles it day by day. "Recover as much as possible" , perhaps avoid amputation, and especially "go see the children" of Tomek. Go back to the mountains? The teacher from Drôme recognizes that she "needs this" . "It's so beautiful," she says."

In reply to Thatoneguy:

No, they are examples of how it really is.   Endless Knot is by Kirt Diemberger, who received a load of flack for leaving an immobile Alan Rouse on K2

In reply to Thatoneguy:

At high altitude the body and mind are slowly decaying, and it can be hard enough just looking after yourself. Even harder if you also have bad frostbite.

The same situation happening twice is tragic, but I wouldn't call it strange.

In reply to Thatoneguy: If you read her description of his symptoms in this BBC report then ask yourself what else would/could you do in that situation ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42909586

 

 

In reply to L.A.:

Despite the ordeal, she has not ruled out climbing again, saying: "I need this."

Any takers?

In reply to Graham Mck:

Maybe she and Joe Simpson should be partners? Talk about lightning striking twice...this is like what happens when you strap a piece of buttered toast on the back of a cat and then drop them. Great GIF there.

In reply to Goucho:

Detailed account with topos, photos etc. (based largely on info/media from Denis Urubko) on Alan Arnette's site:

http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2018/01/28/nanga-parbat-1-saved-1-lost-and-...

Which all just brings home what an achievement it was to get up there and save one of the pair!

 

In reply to Thatoneguy:

Well I have a reasonable amount of experience of both, and I can tell you that it's not a useful comparison. Altitude is MUCH harder, in terms of physical effort and toll on your body. Helping someone who can't walk is impossible, and staying with them in such a situation (7300m on Nanga Parbat in winter without O2) is suicide.

I'm actually not surprised that Denis climbed 1000m vertically at 166m/h, using fixed ropes, on a route he'd been on before, as he is pretty much the strongest high-altitude mountaineer of the last 20 years, proven over and over. The photos afterwards show look like he's barely been outside, let alone halfway up Nanga Parbat in winter.

I am surprised that Revol was able to surivive so long in that place, alone without a tent, food etc. She's already proven to be stronger than most (3x8000ers in one trip, only the 3rd person to do that) but a couple of days exposed at 6000-7000m in winter, having just been to 8100m, with frostbite, no food or shelter, would kill most people.

There are actually many layers to this story, that most don't know, particularly re Tomek's criticism of Moro (regular winter partner of rescuer Urubko) and others for the FWA of NP, doubting them, criticising them etc. He was quite unpopular in some circles, making his death like this even more tragic, really.

As for Revol and former partners, again, ironically Bielecki has had similar issues and criticism, but this time he's the good guy: http://www.planetmountain.com/en/news/alpinism/broad-peak-first-winter-asce...

 

In reply to Damo:

Thanks for that reply... Quite interesting.  I didn't know that Tomek was so unpopular among some circles.  Crazy stuff the whole incident.  

 

In reply to Thatoneguy:

Hello. I don't usually comment on any actual climbing threads, let alone high altitude mountaineering threads (as I have no experience in the latter) but your posts caught my eye.

Despite numerous replies from knowledgeable people politely explaining their interpretation of Revol's actions, and despite you having acknowledged that there are many cases of people "coming down alone" having had to abandon their partner/party, you seem to be singling her out as some sort of malevolent person. Seemingly because it has happened to her once before, in 2009. 

You may not have thought of this so I'll spell it out:

Following your morals and logic (as outlined in your posts) you think she should have either died in 2009 with Matin Minaret, or retired from mountaineering after that incident.  

Just checking Ola's article again, it says only that Minaret died on the descent and that Revol was rescued.

It doesn't say she "left him behind to descend alone". Maybe you got that info elsewhere though (although the nature of your posts suggests that they are informed only by the current UKC article and that you are imagining that Revol made quick and callous decisions to abandon people - you actually imply that she made NO effort to try to assist either Minaret or Mackiewicz  at any point, which is quite an accusation).

I am not having a pop at you, nothing personal here, but as I say, your posts caught my eye. Please just think about what you are writing, and take the time to absorb the informed comments from experienced/knowledgeable posters above. Thanks

In reply to Thatoneguy:

It isn't crazy stuff at all.

It's what happens when things go wrong on an 8000 metre peak.

Some get down, some don't.

The history of Himalayan climbing is full of these incedents.

As I said earlier, it's simply the nature and risks of the big mountain game.

 

In reply to Thatoneguy:

It's also quite a regular event that climbers get called upon like this in Pakistan to form part of a rescue team. It even happened to me once. The army just send the helicopters and pilots. There's no proper mountain rescue beyond that.

In reply to Thatoneguy:

In reply to Blue Straggler:

To the best of my knowledge Elisabeth was tired but well when she reached the summit of Nanga Parbat. She then had to assist Tomek, who was nearly blind, on the way down, which couldn’t have been easy. The original plan was to send the helicopter as high as 6000m, however there was a delay securing funding and in the meantime weather conditions had changed. Elisabeth secured Tomek the best she could and set off without taking any gear with her, convinced someone will be on their way soon. She was then forced to camp without a shelter, food and drink for another night, when she experienced hallucinations and suffered frostbite. If she “just left” Tomek behind and only cared for herself she would have been able to reach the basecamp without any problems. She suffered a great deal trying to help rescue him and I think that none of us is in any positions to judge anyone, unless you have successfully climbed 8000m peak in the winter.

I don’t know the details of the 2009 Annapurna expedition and the death of Martin Minaret. Adam Bielecki was in similar situation on Broadpeak when two expedition members died (two survived) after reaching the summit.

here is a link to video showing the conditions and the state of Elisabeth at the moment of rescue (first video below the article) https://sport.onet.pl/alpinizm/nowe-nagranie-z-wyprawy-ratunkowej-pod-nanga...

In reply to Blue Straggler:

So much of what you said about me is not true... You have no idea who I am or what morals I have...not once did I say she deserves to die or anyone for that matter.  Coming from a point of view where I have rescued some people in the mountains and artic regions I don't think those comments are required.  I have plus 20 years in the mountains (skiing/climbing/ice climbing) so I know something about it and have some experience.   The main point is that noone seems to be looking from the other side of the story.  Just disturbs me that is all... I don't know Revol or her personality but somehow something is strange.  

In reply to Thatoneguy:

You clearly have no knowledge, experience or understanding of climbing 8000 metre peaks.

If you did, you wouldn't be posting this tripe.

 

In reply to Goucho:

Ok mr. know it all.  You must have climbed all the 8000 meter peaks and noone knows anything else.  

In reply to Thatoneguy:

Is it strange? If you don't put yourself in these situations you have zero likelihood of needing rescued from an 8000m peak, but conversely if you do push the limits then there is a far greater risk of needing that assistance, or being forced to make these decisions. Revol has been in these situations by virtue of trying to push limits, and has therefore had to make those decisions. I don't think anyone goes out to do a high Himalayan peak in winter not aware of the risks, and the potential consequences of those risks.

In reply to Thatoneguy:

No I haven't, but I know enough about how hard it is to get an incapacitated climber down off any mountain single handed, and enough brain cells to be able to comprehend how it must be virtually impossible to do so on an 8000 metre peak.

I'm beginning to see the reason behind your choice of username?

In reply to Olk:

Thanks Ola, this was the point I was trying to make to Thatoneguy

 

In reply to Thatoneguy:


> but somehow something is strange.  

Well now that your comments are rather becoming less polite in spite of patient and courteous comments made by myself and others, I'll end by asking if you would outline precisely what is "fishy" and "strange" here, as you seem to be making some sort of unpleasant allegations.

I am not posting again on this thread but I hope - sincerely - that in the interests of being generally respectful given the context of this discussion, that you will have the courtesy to stop being vague and say what is on your mind, clearly.
 

 

In reply to Goucho:

Nobody said it was easy.... As an recent example with Conrad Anker... I also like ho wyou like to attack that I haven't climbed an 8000m peak as you haven't either...  

Choice of username doesn't have anything to do with anything...I very rarely make comments on posts.. same as you name? 

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Most of the comments have been polite but most have been direct and rude... So how is it unpleasant to respond in the same way?  What I mean by strange as stated as before is that there seems to be a  lot of unanswered questions.  We will never know what truly happened and I think it is strange to accept her word of exactly what has happened.  Just blodly happened like this....How many climbing tales have two stark versions?  Also from her interviews there didn't seem to be that much remorse.  Maybe I am missing something...?  

In reply to Thatoneguy:

As it happens, Goucho has made the most harrowing of retreats and paid dearly - very dearly indeed - for his knowledge. If he - and others - are prepared to freely share their experience/knowledge on here perhaps a better response might be gratitude.

Just a thought...

Mick

In reply to Thatoneguy:

Can I just point out that that is exactly what we have to do because there is no other way to deal with it. There were no witnesses to the events, so you might have to accept her version of the story. Tomek is not going to be able to tell his side of the story. As for remorse - blinking heck man, really? What do you want her to do? What level of bellowing and crying would be suitable? This women is a tough cookie otherwise she wouldn't have been trying to climb the hardest of the 8000m peaks in the winter. It's unlikely that she wears her heart on her sleeve.

In reply to Thatoneguy:

So what exactly is the "other side of the story", and what unanswered questions are there? I'm not aware of either, so you'll have to spell it out for me. 

In reply to Thatoneguy:

Maybe read up on the stages on grief. She looked to me like someone still in the initial stages of denial/disbelief, which is entirely expected.

In reply to Doug:

Yes, sorry about that. It just seemed strange that I was picking up on this on Reuters and nothing on UKC, and the forums didn't seem to have much to do with climbing. I thought nobody was really interested.

In reply to Mr. Lee:

I don't think she should feel any remorse. Sadness at the loss of a friend, yes, but remorse, or guilt, certainly not.

By all accounts, she did everything possible in her power, to try and get her partner down.

And bearing in mind the altitude and rapidly deteriorating weather, combined with the seriousness of Mackiewicz condition - snowblind, exhaustion, frostbite and probably oedema - the fact she stayed with him as long as she did, putting her own life further at risk with each passing hour, is testimony to her courage and strength of character.

Now she has the agonising wait to see whether or not she is going to need amputations.

Having been there myself, sitting in a hospital for days, hands and feet bandaged up, being pushed around in a wheelchair waiting for the outcome, I know how she must feel.

 And when the doctor finally makes that visit a few days later and says "sorry, we're going to have to amputate", well let's just say, it's not going to go down as one of your better days

Hopefully though, she may get lucky and be ok? I certainly hope so.

In reply to Thatoneguy:

Go careful with assumtion, that is what all this is – we weren't there. We're basing opinions on what we read in the media, hear from friends etc. I know from experience that this is often way off the mark. I heard that she was instructed to descend by the Pakistani authorities as a helicopter was on the way, but that's just something a friend told me. We should be cautious when pronouncing judgement, especially in the mainstream media, where reputations are trashed.