/ FRI NIGHT VID: Hayes, Claassen and Harrington in Mallorca
Some of the videos lately are of some cool climbing, but then the guys and girls spending the duration of the narration blowing sunshine up each others arses, maybe i'm getting old and grumpy but We already know they're awesome, they're in a la sportiva sponsored video. I'd Much rather listen to them talking about how awesome the climbs are. Apart from that it's a kool video
Way too much talking - couldn’t finish it.
Sieging up a wall, slaydies - the elnglish language is being massacred.
Not to mention some of the most irritatingly edited climbing footage imaginable.......
Can you imagine ever paying a climbing partner a compliment? Whillans will be spinning in his grave.
> Way too much talking - couldn’t finish it.
I've tried twice and failed at about half way. Even turning the sound off and playing some loud music over it doesn't work - as the ever observant Rob Durran says, the editing just too irritating. Having seen some some pretty good CLIMBING videos of each of them separately it seems a shame that La Sportiva (presumably?) want to put such an annoying slant on it. What's wrong with some great climbing footage for a film promoting climbing shoes? Yeah, yeah, old and grumpy...
I stopped at 'we couldn't think of a hashtag for this trip'.
Gone to bang my head against a wall.
Watched the vid on Friday but didn't want to post a negative comment as the first response. But given that others have cast the die.
That was awful. Assuming that Lasportiva coughed for flights etc then they could have saved themselves the cash and filmed it in a climbing wall or pub back home. There was absolutely no climbing footage of any value whatsoever in there. Actually, there may have been in the second half, like everyone else I switched off before then
TBF, given that it had FingersDownAChalkboard as one of the main protagonist I was never going to like it
> Yeah, yeah, old and grumpy...
To be fair, I think the tone and editing was probably aimed at the teenage girl market with an attention span of three nanoseconds rather than at discerning but grumpy old men.
Some people do stuff really well - some people say clever and interesting stuff. You hardly ever get both - they are the first type . Not Oscar Wilde except with climbing but ok with the sound down. That bloke camped out for days with Emil H on a huge rock face . They seemed to get on ok. The kids will love it - they know what a hash tag is.
> > Yeah, yeah, old and grumpy...
> To be fair, I think the tone and editing was probably aimed at the teenage girl market with an attention span of three nanoseconds rather than at discerning but grumpy old men.
Its a shame that the core demographic of UKC is grumpy old men, but probably not surprising.
> To be fair, I think the tone and editing was probably aimed at the teenage girl market
So they could spend their pocket money on expensive rock shoes? More like it was aimed at the hard of thinking.
Discerning grumpy old men... like it!
exactly. all the grumpy old men need to cheer up
Jaysis - what is this? The new anti-feminism? Commoditised empowerment? For all the talk of personality at the start of the video, I was struck by the apparent lack of it on show. The earnestess of it all made me sick into my mouth.
In light of the feedback above I know this is going to be an unpopular decision, but on the whole I enjoyed it.
I took it to be a film about a few people (gender aside) heading on a holiday and having fun. In fact, it didn't really seem so different from trips I'd had away from my own friends, insofar as it seemed like they weren't taking each other too seriously (for the most part). I particularly enjoyed the literary climbing puns (because that is something I do pretty much all the time), the eating of raw olives (because that's something I've done once and will never, ever do again), and also the soundtrack (which added to the generally playful vibe of the film).
That said, I'll admit them talking about each-other was a bit awkward/unnecessary and detracted from the positives outlined above. It almost made a film that was a little tongue in cheek into something needlessly formal and I think that femininity/masculinity could have been dealt with in a far more implicit way (i.e. they didn't need to use the word fierce 5-6 times).
Still, overall I really did enjoy it. Clearly it's more than a little different to the Pertex Elemental Series in which Rob Durran has featured (which also liked, albeit in a very different way!), but I guess that isn't for everyone either - pretty bloke heavy, trad orientated, and somewhere far less 'accessible' for the majority of rock climbers to visit (let's face it, most people would choose the easy ride of a quick trip to Mallorca over a weeks stay somewhere potentially more challenging like Jordan).
For those that are about to flame me for my opinions, take solace in the fact that I don't pick the Friday Night Video...
Well I'm the King of unpopular opinions this week so I'm going to throw my lot in with you - I enjoyed it. On the one hand it it was nothing like trips I've been on, I don't think my usual travel companions would be so kind when asked to describe each other and it'd be hard for us to find enough hair between us to plat. On the other hand all of this could be explained by differences in age, gender and possibly nationality, the underlying theme of going on a climbing trip, working each other out and having fun are pretty universal. I'm also a fan of punning.
But what about the fact that they hardly ever showed more than one move at a time and, if they did, felt the need to speed one of them up? How can't anyone not be deeply irritated by that?
> I particularly enjoyed the literary climbing puns.
I think I found them most irritating of all; I could almost, in a perverse sort of way, enjoy the pure awfulness of all the rest, but the puns were just plain, banal irritating.
This may be a statement of the obvious, thus it sounds more condescending than it's meant to be, but climbing doesn't always have to be the sole focus of a climbing film. The focus of the film at hand (at least in my eyes) was the trip, and the relationship between the individuals involved, and not the routes they were doing. That said, the routes - alongside the other scenes from Mallorca - provided a nice backdrop to it all. As such I didn't feel extended sequences of moves being made were entirely necessary, because that wasn't what I was watching it for (if I wanted to see routes/beta I'd browse YouTube). I guess I'd have said the same were I to have seen climbing overtake the cultural aspect in the Pertex films, because it was the latter that really made it interesting - not the climbing.
Regarding the puns, I refer back to your earlier post about being a grumpy old man and will leave it at that ;-)
> Can you imagine ever paying a climbing partner a compliment? Whillans will be spinning in his grave.
No doubt he would have come up with a pithy and amusing put-down, but to repeatedly use Whillans as a reference point is to ignore sixty years of welcome progress, both in climbing, and in social attitudes.
everyone's getting a bit too deep about an 8 min youtube vid. If you don't like it oh well if you do great.
> The focus of the film at hand (at least in my eyes) was the trip, and the relationship between the individuals involved
I'd have thought that a good film maker would have been capable of focusing on that aspect without them coming across as vacuous. They are certainly far from that and deserve better (unless of course it was their idea...?) That said, I can think of other videos, magazine articles, and even those (almost embarrasing, to us) 'appreciation' threads on Supertopo which have a similar slant. Maybe the American public is so used to this stuff that it's become the norm and they just don't notice...? Serious comment, by the way, not trying to score points or be grumpy.
> ...........climbing doesn't always have to be the sole focus of a climbing film.
I agree. And, yes, the Wadi Rum film is a good example, so I'm hardly going to disagree ;-) But they could have at least made what climbing there was less irritatingly edited; it was the silly speeding up nonsense which was dreadful.
Although I did somewhat enjoy it, I think video fails as a piece of marketing when it fails to attract it audience (all of us!). Ok some have said that it's aimed at teenage girls, but the climbing market isn't that big to start sub-dividing into niche markets. There's no reason why this video couldn't appeal to all of us with a bit better script, a thoughtful writer and less self-congratulatory yank-pap. I agree with Rob that I mirror myself in the essence of a buddies trip, though how it is narrated to the public (if you must) makes all the difference. I think branded marketing can be an amazing opportunity if done well, the Pertex series one being of the better examples, but it can also repel some of us if not carefully thought as proven in this video. Rab with the Bothy culture and the Place of Gaels are also good examples how you can appeal to ALL audiences, entertain, promote good values and sell gear at the same time.
Yep, I came away from watching that thinking, they all seem really nice and it sounds like they had a great trip. Plus, Margo's pencil in off something at Diablo was boss.
> Rab with the Bothy culture and the Place of Gaels are also good examples how you can appeal to ALL audiences, entertain, promote good values and sell gear at the same time.
As a teenage girl into bouldering I have to disagree with its twee imagery and macho, dick swinging ("We are the fellowship, hewn from granite and grit....", purlees!). What's a bothy anyway?
> Some people do stuff really well - some people say clever and interesting stuff. You hardly ever get both - they are the first type ....
I did not enjoy the video, essentially for the same reason than most others on here, but I'd like to point out that Margo Hayes can say clever and interesting stuff, as I have listened to her do just that. It's unfortunate that none of that is in the video...
Ah gents, lighten up a bit. At least it's not the standard climbing vid format: nature shots, fall off crux 10x, philosophy of breaking through to the next level, try hard face, send, sunset. If these women want to have fun and were able to convince a sponsor to foot the bill good for them. Personally, I think there are lots of better films out there, but at least this one was different from most. If all you blokes want is sick climbing footage with no character or plot development and no ads of any kind try this one from Jimmy Webb, aptly titled "Just Climbing". https://www.vimeo.com/204369331
> If all you blokes want is sick climbing footage with no character or plot development.........
You have completely misunderstood. We want character and plot development. Not inane shite about hashtags and crappy puns. Some proper climbing footage would be fine too.
> You have completely misunderstood. We want character and plot development.
I get it. I want those too. Best two recent character-based climbing films I've seen are from Cedar Wright: Stumped and Safety Third. Both are far better than the linked trailer would suggest. Stumped is powerful but also hilarious. Safety Third will make you laugh and have your palms sweating. On demand here (god forbid you should pay the artist and climbers for their work): https://vimeo.com/ondemand/137976
This is a boss comment! I do however think you are not a teenage girl into bouldering as a look at your photos seem to show a preponderance of Pembroke trad photos...
This is an interesting thread which serves to reveal the older male bias of the UKC commentariat here. In actual fact I hated the film too but mostly because I felt it utterly failed to show the protagonists as they really are, and played to really crass reductive stereotypes of 'women in sport' as frothy, bubbly pathologically unserious etc etc.
This contrasts unfavorably with an arcteryx video a while back which was a sort of homage to women in climbing, showing some what you might call feminine aspects, but doing so without rendering the subjects as shallow object.
I also hated the classic 'frenemies' bullshit that seems to be so beloved by filmmakers of women in the competitive arena. It doesn't matter that it is true in this case, it has been so overdone by the media across so many different narrative threads from business to politics and so on - it serves no one and is like a fungal growth on the portrayal of women in classically male arenas...
All of these women climb harder than 99.9 percent of all of us, have insane focus and strength of will and attention, can turn on extreme bravery in harsh situations and totally deserve our respect - I just think this film did not achieve that for anyone, teenage girl or not.
Still I'm a privileged white male with all my hair in my forties - what do I know?
Or maybe we could have a different plot for a change. How about they try a hard climb, and in the end they do it?
> Can you imagine ever paying a climbing partner a compliment? Whillans will be spinning in his grave.
Given that he maxed out around f6b/c, and these ‘complimenting’ girls max out at f9a+, it seems he should have given it some thought ;-)
The number of teenage girls climbing in gyms in the US is probably larger than the entire climbing population of the UK. That's the target of this video and will appeal for sure.
Bunch of middle aged men slagging off young women who happen to be really good at their sport.
Nothing new on UKC today then.
> Bunch of middle aged men slagging off young women who happen to be really good at their sport.
No we are not. We are slagging off a film which, for whatever reasons, sets out to portray highly talented and no doubt interesting and intelligent young women as shallow caricatures.
I think the lack of responses from female climbers re this topic and others on UKC is more concerning/thought provoking than simply old guys having a grumble at a Climbing Film.
I watched it on YouTube - genuine question, isn't this a (long) trailer, not the whole thing?
If it's the whole thing, it's pretty poor as a climbing film. I didn't mind the (to us Brits) slightly cringey reflection on your buddies, but it didn't really show any climbing? It was all snippets which I took to be sections from a full release...
> I think the lack of responses from female climbers re this topic (...)
Mrs J is away working this week and rarely looks at UKC. I sent her a link to the vid. Her reply was (and I quote)
> Aaarrgghh, I couldn't finish it...
Watch again from 5mins 30.
Do you think the last 3 minutes is any better? I gave up watching the first time and for no particular reason thought I'd watch the last bit and give it a second chance. It was pretty good I thought.
Not sure if that's just hot water warm water cold water or if the last bit is genuinely much better
> No we are not. We are slagging off a film which, for whatever reasons, sets out to portray highly talented and no doubt interesting and intelligent young women as shallow caricatures.
Unless of course, it’s an accurate portrayal of some young people out on a climbing trip, in which case some of the emails in this thread exhibit at the least casual misogyny.
> Unless of course, it’s an accurate portrayal of some young people out on a climbing trip, in which case some of the emails in this thread exhibit at the least casual misogyny.
It is either an accurate portrayal (though I doubt it) or they have been put up to it by the film maker. Either way, a negative stereotype is being reinforced by the film, not by any comments on this thread. On the contrary, what we hate about the film is it's unflattering portrayal of young women - no misogyny from us.
It's a bit presumptuous to think this will appeal to teenage girls just because it has some hashtags and people their age and gender in it.
Teenage girls have taste too!
Indeed. It's worth pointing out though that none of them are teenagers.
It's only a negative stereotype from your point of view. You are the one imposing your opinion on what exactly is a negative stereotype. Are young women only allowed to behave in ways which you prescribed as being positive? It may not be your cup of tea but it seems like you are the one with the problem here, not them. It seemed to me like they were having a nice time, whether or not I enjoyed the video I did not think that the film maker was portraying them as anything, and I think it is your bias that is distorting that way. And it's only unflattering because you are uncomfortable with it. It'd be great to know what the young women in the film thought of their appearance. I'd like to hope they wouldn't give a shit what you thought.
> Indeed. It's worth pointing out though that none of them are teenagers.
Fair. I was just picking up on Rob Durran's "teenage girl market"...perhaps "young female climbers" would be a better choice of phrase.
A crap climbing film is a crap climbing film though. I don't think it's getting a poor response simply because UKC is full of "grumpy old men".
Are there any young female climbers out there who enjoyed this?
> > Rab with the Bothy culture and the Place of Gaels are also good examples how you can appeal to ALL audiences, entertain, promote good values and sell gear at the same time.
> As a teenage girl into bouldering I have to disagree with its twee imagery and macho, dick swinging ("We are the fellowship, hewn from granite and grit....", purlees!). What's a bothy anyway?
My favourite post on UKC for a long, long time.
> Are there any young female climbers out there who enjoyed this?
Well, I can't really still claim to be young, but I am female, so here goes.....
Overall I quite liked it. The relationship between the three women was reminiscent of an era in my climbing life a few years ago. Me n my good buddies, Tanya and Becky, had great laughs on the catwalk at Malham, mooching around at Kilnsey and occasionally going off on adventures far afield. The tone was similarly positive and encouraging - we congratulated each other and celebrated the successes, rather than picking on flaws and laughing at mistakes like my blokey friends seem to do.... Also we had a fair amount of silly banter.
It was good to see these incredibly talented climbers getting on well together with no cattiness, even though they could easily be rivals.
One annoying niggle was the lack of info about the climbs filmed. Personally I would love to know what routes they were on, that would be more inspiring to me as I have climbed in mallorca quite a bit, would love to do more.
On balance I would prefer more climbing featured in a film like this. And I don't get the whole hashtags thing, but that's definitely my age talking. However, I found it interesting and sweet overall.
> Are there any young female climbers out there who enjoyed this?
I'm 29 (don't know if this counts as young but not exactly 'teenage'), and I enjoyed it.
It was fun, they weren't taking themselves seriously and they were crushing! What's not to like?
I only wish it could have been longer with more of an explore into the relationships between the women. There's plenty of climbing videos out there, but when do you get the chance to see what goes on off the rock? That's what I'd like to see more of.
P.s I love the hashtag an intend on using it as much as possible!
Happy International Women's Day
Fair enough, thanks for the response.
Now I think about it, I do congratulate/encourage my mates while climbing. Maybe I found it a bit much in this context as it was a large proportion of the film, and said to camera (as you say, not enough climbing?). I would encourage my mates but would probably draw the line at praising them on camera/to others! ;)
Definitely didn't find it interesting or sweet, but then I am a cynical contrarian! (prob a grumpy old man before my time).
> they were crushing! What's not to like?
I can only assume they were "crushing" (since they are so good), but this wasn't shown? I think there was only about 3 seconds' climbing footage at a time!!
> Happy International Women's Day
Same to you
Perhaps I am watching this from a male perspective. Didn't expect your responses to be honest! Glad some people enjoyed it. Each to their own
> It's only a negative stereotype from your point of view. You are the one imposing your opinion on what exactly is a negative stereotype. ..............it seems like you are the one with the problem here............. And it's only unflattering because you are uncomfortable with it.
Ok, so you disagree with me that a negative stereotype is being portrayed. This does not mean I have a "problem" any more than it means you have a "problem"; it just means we disagree. In the end I think it would be better to have films where women (or men for that matter) came across as being more thoughtful and reflective with intelligent and interesting things to say rather than bland and frivolous.
Yes I'm sorry, 'problem' wasn't the best choice of words. However, what's intelligent and thoughtful to some, is bland and frivolous to others. And vice versa. It's all very subjective and is all a result of judgement.
Edit : spelling
I really enjoyed this film, although as someone in her 40s I don't think I am the target demographic. It's not so much a film about climbing, its a film about three climbers, and friendship based around climbing. I often work with teenage girls in the outdoors and I reckon the film would resonate strongly with them.
> I often work with teenage girls in the outdoors and I reckon the film would resonate strongly with them.
Some, definitely. Definitely only some.
What is your beef dude? :-/
> What is your beef dude? :-/
Ideally one of those brick like steaks you can get in Patagonia that is so big that it hangs over the side of the plate so that you need a second one for your chips. Is that smiley with the slanty mouth chewing on one?
Ah, now that's great. Why can't you be equally light hearted about harmless (if not to your taste/understanding) climbing related video?
As for your preferred beef, I'm gonna pass, and refer you to krs one.
> Ah, now that's great. Why can't you be equally light hearted about harmless climbing related video?
Because I don't think it is harmless.
Really!? Please explain exactly what harm you think is going to be caused by this video...
> Please explain exactly what harm you think is going to be caused by this video...
The reinforcement of a negative stereotype. And yes, I already know you disagree.......
Really struggling to understand what negative stereotype you think is being reinforced by this video - perhaps you could explain.
I see three women you are very confident, very determined and prepared to push their boundaries, but also be supportive of each other
> Really struggling to understand what negative stereotype you think is being reinforced by this video - perhaps you could explain.
See my earlier posts. We're only going round in circles now.
I did read your earlier posts but all I could see was you going round in circles
I'm at a loss to know how I could make my view clearer.
You’ve made 14 entries on this thread, I can see that you don’t like the camerawork and acknowledge that the film isn’t aimed at a grumpy old man like yourself, but I honestly can’t see an explanation of the negative stereotype you think they are reinforcing?
my best guess is that you object to the use of the word “hashtag”, or more precisely the suggestion that teenagers use this term.
but I’m very reluctant to suggest something so absurd
It's a US/UK cultural thing and reflective of a common UK reaction to US climbing films.
I would guess that the women will be quite happy with the way they are portrayed in this video.
All three grew up in Boulder Colorado and/or went to CU Boulder. What you see is the way that young Colorado climbers generally talk and act - like it or not. Most of the US climbing filmakers - and La Sportiva USA themselves - are also Boulder based. They know what resonates with their target audience - and that's not you or I.
I remember vividly standing round a campfire in Indian Creek during Thanksgiving shortly after I moved to Boulder, as 36 climbers sincerely and solemnly declared to each other what they were thankful for in life. Some were moved to tears. As an ageing Brit I had to control my impulse to say something ironic or clever and generally British.
I'm habituated now and like the inherent openness and positivity - (multiplied by 10 in the privileged "Boulder Bubble" compared to the rest of the US).
I also recommend Cedar Wright's two Reel Rock films for a more irreverent take on the Boulder scene and some heart-stopping climbing, as mentioned earlier.
> I honestly can’t see an explanation of the negative stereotype you think they are reinforcing?
Oh well, you clearly see the film differently. Fair enough.
> I would guess that the women will be quite happy with the way they are portrayed in this video.
I do wonder - I thought Margo came across best and seemed maybe a bit uneasy with the the whole thing. Is it not possible they were put up to it by Sportiva in a (hopefully misguided) attempt to target the teenage girl market rather than the film reflecting how they really are?
No offence, but that does come across a bit like "Thanks for the excellent explanation as to why I'm wrong, but I think I'll keep on believing I'm right anyway and find a way to justify it to myself"!
> No offence, but that does come across a bit like "Thanks for the excellent explanation as to why I'm wrong, but I think I'll keep on believing I'm right anyway and find a way to justify it to myself"!
No, I don't think so. I just see a lot of terrible inconsequential froth which puts young women in a poor light whereas he presumably sees strong, confident women doing their stuff and putting them in a good light.
I wonder if opinions are skewed by knowing that they are three of the best climbers in the world. How would a similar video of three women climbing 4+ rather than 9a go down?
If they climbed 4a I still wouldnt be judging their behaviour based on what I thought was valid. I'm sure when you were young a lot of your behaviours seemed odd to the generation above you. I have daughters, I can understand that sometimes the younger generation express themselves in ways that can seem a little baffling, but I wouldn't describe it as harmful, or attempt to dictate what is valid or not. If they were sitting around sniffing glue or vandalising things then it would be a different matter, but I think the girls in this video are just being themselves, and living a healthy, not harmful, life.*
*Generally, without going deep into what is harmful (global travel etc).
Well, I'm 60 and can be grumpy at times. I liked the film. Young climbers having a good time, beautiful scenery, terrific rock. What's not to like.
Even we were young and foolish once upon a time Mick, it was great! Wish I could climb that hard though
No argument about their climbing ability.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Paige Claasen's parents (particularly her mum, I think) used to do an horrendous commute in New York traffic to get her to climbing walls. And this went on for years - which, of course, is part of what it takes. For instance, when Shauna was 10 and 11, she'd be at the Awesome wall in Liverpool, courtesy of her dad, Mike, at least five times a week. OK, they didn't have as bad a commute from Runcorn but Mike's job involved a fair amount of up and down the motorway. Every night he'd be belaying her, no matter how knackered he was. His social life? Not much. But without his dedication, (he also coached her), all those years ago, would she be where she is today?
If I were making this film, I'd think, OK, three young ladies climbing hard and hanging out with each other. I'd like to have told a little of their stories, what got them to this point. I'd have liked to ask them what messages (if any) they have for the multitudes, back in US gyms, who wish to emulate them. I'd have liked to ask them about climbing/life balance. Competitiveness versus helping each other. (Is climbing unique in that, even when directly competing, you still want the other person to succeed?) Their hopes for the future...
I could go on - but I won't! You get the picture.
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