UKC

/ COMPETITION: WINNER - Win a Beal ESCAPER detachable abseil system

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
UKC Articles - on 03 Mar 2018
Escaper Thumbnail, 3 kbBeal are giving you the chance to win a Beal ESCAPER detachable abseil system.

Read more
PPP - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

A double lottery on UKC! You have to win the device first and then not kill yourself. 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I know it’s a specialised device not for everyone. Just being cheeky  

1
jayjackson - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to PPP: it’s a clever idea, but love the fact the chap demonstrating leaves a back up knot in it when he abseils that then  must have been removed for the retrieval!

 

I’m going to triple-lottery, if I don’t win I may make one of my own!!

 

d_b on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to jayjackson:

That is in accordance with the instructions.  Last person down resets the device and takes the knot out.

Gwilymstarks on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to davidbeynon:

I would be very happy to use this unless I was last

MFB - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

Hope I don't win!

Red Rover - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

If you were abbing down a route which had a lot of ledges on it or just wasnt that steep, do you think going over the ledges might end up tensioning and releasing the rope at least 8 times?

Red Rover - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

'Did he cross 8 ledges or only 7'? Well to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, i kind of lost track myself. ...  you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well do ya, punk?

Post edited at 11:03
Phil Lyon - on 03 Mar 2018

Anyone else rather use the Yorkshire rope trick?

 

Wayne S - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to davidbeynon:

I lost all confidence seeing the demo with back up knot if I am honest.  Bit of a faux pas really.

 

2
Red Rover - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to Phil Lyon:

 

What's the yorkshire rope trick?

Phil Lyon - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to Red Rover:

put rope through crab at anchor.

tie fig 8 in one end, put a crab on

clip this crab back to the main single abseil rope

also clip in an equal length of thin cord

once you've abseiled down the single rope, retrieve it by pulling the cord.

 

http://people.bath.ac.uk/dac33/high/10GettingBackDown_files/image077.png

I'm not sure of the benefit of clove hitching the crab in rather than just clipping it through the fig 8?

Red Rover - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to Phil Lyon:

OK I use that in caving but I've never done it in climbing, I always thought the thin pull-down cord would wrap itself round the main rope and jam everything if its windy, does this happen?

d_b on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to Wayne S:

They really should have explained that bit better.  It's the thing everyone has picked up on and all it would have taken is a single subtitle.

Having tried one out I wasn't able to make it slip at all with the usual bouncing up and down and kicking off ledges etc.  Personally I'm confident that it's not going to drop me but I completely understand why people are generally skeptical.  Anything new in such a critical part of the system deserves a certain amount of skepticism.

My confidence doesn't currently extend to retrieval in complex terrain but I'm hoping to test that soon.  I'm prioritising playing in the snow right now.

rgold - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

See also https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/that_scary_beal_escaper_thing-678812 .

As for the "Yorkshire Rope Trick," it has been standard for years in places all over the world.  For example Petzl has a diagram at https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Belaying-and-descending-on-multi-pitch-climbs-on-a-single-rope .

Post edited at 16:39
Wiley Coyote2 - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

Second prize? Two ESCAPER

d_b on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to Wiley Coyote2:

One for each half rope?

jayjackson - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to davidbeynon:

Fair enough - cheers for the clarification, I’ve not had a chance to read the instructions. Just seems an odd thing not to explain in their demo video that’s all. 

Does look good though, I’d happily have a play - not sure about how easy it would be to retrieve on complex terrain  

 

alx on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

This is the first UKC Comp I have absolutely no desire to win the prize!

Simonfarfaraway - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to alx:

yeah me to

d_b on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to alx:

You can't tell me it's not worth carrying one just to troll your climbing partner!

smollett - on 03 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

What if you need to prussik back up for some reason. Eg. If rope doesn't hit the ground.

 

Mark Collins - on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

Please can someone send me a link to beal's own information about this product, so far I've come up empty?

d_b on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to smollett:

The rope would remain under tension so from the point of view of the anchor there is no difference between prusiking and abseiling.  When under tension it doesn't move.

john arran - on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to davidbeynon:

I'd imagine it would still be pretty scary though. Prusiking is hard enough in itself without trying to do so without bouncing at all.

Having said that, I can well imagine that the actual risk of it slipping while prusiking could be less than the risk of the rope cutting by abrasion over an edge anyway during the exact same process.

d_b on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to john arran:

I tried bouncing on it.  Nothing really happens.

According to the instructions you should keep a load of at least 10kg on the rope.  My experimentation suggests you can get away with less.  It is actually quite difficult to unload the rope to that degree when you are on it.

Wayne S - on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to davidbeynon:

Enjoy the snow, it looks a good system to be honest.

Engineers let down by marketing dept!

Wayne

smollett - on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to davidbeynon:

That's good to know and makes sense. I guess u bounce a lot but not enough to reduce the load to the less than 10kg required for release. Looks like an interesting bit of kit. 

markalmack - on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

So if the system doesn't work lose if you keep 10kg of force on it, this suggests to me that the elastic part of the ESCAPER has a similar amount of force pulling upwards... 

How many times have you had so much friction when retrieving a rope from an abseil that it takes half your body weight to pull the ropes? For me lots of times! If this happens, will the elastic part of the  ESCAPER provide enough force to overcome this friction and lift the weight of the rope too which looks like what needs to happen for the system to release? I have my doubts.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Hmmmmm.

Looks great.

BUT it says keep it under tension. Regularly on long abseils the rope is not under tension.

I fear there will be many accidents with this piece of kit.

Sod using something as dodgy as this!

 

 

Post edited at 19:59
john arran - on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

> BUT it says keep it under tension. Regularly on long abseils the rope is not under tension.

I think that if you were using one of there gizmos and had even the slightest awareness of the issues involved, you'd have to be pretty dense to completely unweight the rope half way down on a ledge, even if that may be the most convenient action.

Prof. Outdoors on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

Is it possible for UKC to let us know how many people enter this competition? It would be interesting to know if there are fewer entries than "normal" competitions.

1
In reply to john arran:

Stuff happens on abseils that is not expected

john arran - on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

> Stuff happens on abseils that is not expected

Of course it does, but I'm struggling to think of a situation where you would unwittingly end up unweighting the rope despite knowing full well that would be a terrible idea. I often abseil without a prusik backup - in situations where rockfall from above is highly unlikely - and for some reason I've never found myself letting go of the brake rope due to 'stuff' happening.

1
mag - on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

Absolutely ridiculous. What next cam things that stick in parallel cracks?

Rich W Parker - on 04 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

They can't give them away!

beardy mike - on 05 Mar 2018
In reply to mag: wouldn't find me using them... sounds well sketch.

 

In reply to john arran:

You ab down and are suddenly on a wide ledge on which you have all your weight on your feet?

Rope gets stuck in a crack so you find a ledge from which to flick the rope?

You intend to ab to a ledge you can see but on arrival realise you can ab further but have unweighted the rope already?

Having a fertile open mind is a good thing when it comes to mountain safety.

Horses for courses though.

Safe climbing mate!

Post edited at 09:40
Mark Collins - on 05 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

Struggling to find any official information about this other than some videos at trade shows and outside, demonstrating how it works. Surely there should be a specification on the manufacturers web site. I know its pretty new but can see it is for sale at several retailers. Is my usual verification method of the validity of a product via the manufacturers website out of date? Does it have the manufacturers name on it? Admittedly seeing it associated with UKC has peaked my interest thus far.

d_b on 05 Mar 2018
In reply to Mark Collins:

Bit weird that isn't it?  You can get them in the shops but if you looked at the Beal web site you would get the impression they don't exist.

john arran - on 05 Mar 2018
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

The point is that all of those things are within your control, so you simply will not do them if you're using this device, or, if you do so, you will be very aware of the implications. I don't think anyone is suggesting using this will give you as easy a time and as much flexibility of movement as when you're on a double rope ab, so it's a case of balancing such drawbacks against the advantages of carrying only one rope.

pauls911 - on 05 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

As had been mentioned by many, this product seems to be a potentially dangerous solution to a problem that doesn't exist, or at least one that I've never had to solve in 35+ yrs of varied active climbing of many types (trad/ice/alpine/sport). As I said in my comments on the earlier video review & posts on this product, I will vote with my wallet and ignore it's existence. I certainly won't try to win one.

Think for yourselves, how often have you HAD to solve the problem this product addresses?? ie I have only one rope and I must abseil its full length or I die.....

As for comparing this 'innovation' with the advent of SLCD devices I think that seriously misses the 'single point of failure' nature of the ESCAPER. With many lead protection scenarios your protection system will have multiple protection points, and likely multiple ropes in a UK Trad context.

Good luck to anyone that uses it, I just hope I'm not near you, and certainly not beneath you or your climbing partners!

3
top cat on 05 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

I reckon it would be fine on dry rope.  I was struck by how 'difficult' it was to retrieve.

However, all my epic retreats have occurred in storms; either soaking wet or frozen ropes.  Not so sure about that !!!

markalmack - on 05 Mar 2018
In reply to UKC Articles:

Who needs one of those when you can do this:

 

https://www.facebook.com/HansjoergAuer.official/videos/10156275046798216/

 

d_b on 05 Mar 2018
In reply to top cat:

That's going in my tests if I can figure out how.

Rope and escaper sitting in the bath for half an hour before I go out is the obvious one for wet but I'm just far enough from the crag that I don't see how I can keep the thing frozen...

FWIW the rope part of the device is dry treated.

Post edited at 21:19
Seymore Butt - on 14 Mar 2018
In reply to markalmack:

I think I'm going to be sick


This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.