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I know we've discussed this before, but a funny thing happened down at The Edge last time I was there.
When I go to walls I rarely boulder but on this occasion I glanced into the bouldering area at The Edge to watch the hot shot teens happily cranking up desperate looking problems. I then noticed an overhanging jamming crack just asking to be climbed. I resolved to finish the session with it.
Perfect Jam followed perfect jam, outside and a couple of meters longer it would be a three star HVS 5a (its quite steep), A bit longer and if you had to stop and place gear it might scrape E1.
Anyhow at the top I didnt fancy jumping off (even with the mats its a bit high for my old bones), and the happy crankers directed me to an easy problem to down climb.
"That was amazing" they said,
"Why, surely you've seen somebody do that before?"
"Yeh, but we've never seen anybody jam it!"
Somebody on here must have done this crack, how the bloody hell do you climb it if you dont jam it? Its given V2, I think, whatever that is. Anyhow it proved to me that you can make good jamming cracks on walls, should there be more of them so it doesnt become a lost art to wall climbers?
When I go to walls I rarely boulder but on this occasion I glanced into the bouldering area at The Edge to watch the hot shot teens happily cranking up desperate looking problems. I then noticed an overhanging jamming crack just asking to be climbed. I resolved to finish the session with it.
Perfect Jam followed perfect jam, outside and a couple of meters longer it would be a three star HVS 5a (its quite steep), A bit longer and if you had to stop and place gear it might scrape E1.
Anyhow at the top I didnt fancy jumping off (even with the mats its a bit high for my old bones), and the happy crankers directed me to an easy problem to down climb.
"That was amazing" they said,
"Why, surely you've seen somebody do that before?"
"Yeh, but we've never seen anybody jam it!"
Somebody on here must have done this crack, how the bloody hell do you climb it if you dont jam it? Its given V2, I think, whatever that is. Anyhow it proved to me that you can make good jamming cracks on walls, should there be more of them so it doesnt become a lost art to wall climbers?
In reply to Al Evans: i think one of the reasons you don't tend to get craks indoors is that they're not actually that great for training crack technique on. Say you go to an wall and they've got 3 good cracks (Rock Antics for example). You do all of them after a few goes, and then do them again each time you go to the wall. So after a few weeks you've got them wired. So have you learnt any crack technique? not much, you've probably just learnt the ins and outs of those particular routes. Now if these were "normal" indoor routes, you just wait a few weeks (years if its the foundry) till the routes get changed, but obviously featured craks at indoor walls can't be changed, so you're stuck.
If you think about people who are good on cracks, they did it by climbing lots of different crack routes at tons of different crags over time, not from working two or three cracks to death. You just can't get that variety indoors.
If you think about people who are good on cracks, they did it by climbing lots of different crack routes at tons of different crags over time, not from working two or three cracks to death. You just can't get that variety indoors.
Al
V2 is normally top end 5c. Do you mean the crack through the bulging overhang across from the door??
V2 is normally top end 5c. Do you mean the crack through the bulging overhang across from the door??
In reply to Al Evans:
I love that crack, and it's my standard way down off the wall. The problem with cracks in walls in general is that they're often done badly and are a waste of space. I'd love to see an indoor wall with a proper, decent offwidth though.
I love that crack, and it's my standard way down off the wall. The problem with cracks in walls in general is that they're often done badly and are a waste of space. I'd love to see an indoor wall with a proper, decent offwidth though.
In reply to Dave: I'm not sure I agree with you there. There's a good jam crack at the Brunel University wall, and if you regulary climb this using both hand and foot jams that gives you the basic technique which will get you up a large number of gritstone cracks.
In reply to midgets of the world unite: I recall having a rather difficult time trying an offwidth at Alien Rock, Edinburgh. Good luck.
In reply to midgets of the world unite:
Much as I hate to advertise the place the Rockface bouldering wall has a reasonable offwidth if you eliminate holds.
Much as I hate to advertise the place the Rockface bouldering wall has a reasonable offwidth if you eliminate holds.
In reply to John2: thats a fair point, certainly theres a lot of grit hand-cracks, but i suppose it won't help you much on right eliminate.
In reply to Steve C: Thats the one but its not 5c!
In reply to midgets of the world unite:
Try out the Beacon in North Wales - they have a couple of new off-width/chimneys that offer great struggle!!!
Try out the Beacon in North Wales - they have a couple of new off-width/chimneys that offer great struggle!!!
In reply to midgets of the world unite:
Try out the Beacon in North Wales - they have a couple of new off-width/chimneys that offer great struggle!!!
Try out the Beacon in North Wales - they have a couple of new off-width/chimneys that offer great struggle!!!
In reply to midgets of the world unite: Yeh, an offwidth at that angle would be a real George Smithy, good traing for Ray's Roof.
In reply to Al Evans:
and its no 5a either. (Im only saying that because I couldnt do it all).
Its people like you who scare people off jamming. You lure them in using Heather Wall at Froggat warm them up to VS on Holly Groove and Hawks Nest Crack then humiliate them on Joanna at Bailden at VS and Jam and Blast it at Baslow at HVS. :-o
and its no 5a either. (Im only saying that because I couldnt do it all).
Its people like you who scare people off jamming. You lure them in using Heather Wall at Froggat warm them up to VS on Holly Groove and Hawks Nest Crack then humiliate them on Joanna at Bailden at VS and Jam and Blast it at Baslow at HVS. :-o
In reply to Al Evans:
Some indoor cracks I have tried:
double roof crack at the newcastle bergaus wall
-evil, needed yorkshire hands
Peapod at rope race
-too many holds for a proper struggle
brunel wall
-three good cracks, easy, but one twists a lot and another is pretty flared
Guidford wall
-one crap one, an ok sitting start.
Indoor cracks are usually to contrived or bristly for fun (I go to the wall for fun as I don't do training indoors) buildings have the best flatland cracks.
Royal holloway (me old uni) has two of the best; chemistry crack- a solid 20' 4" wide severe, and the bane of my life- physics chimney- a 10', 1 1/2' wide engineering brick horror, still cant get more than 1 ft of the deck. Its like hollybush crack at birchens without the chock or jamming crack, whilst being covered in goose fat.
oops I'm enthusing
soz -hose
Some indoor cracks I have tried:
double roof crack at the newcastle bergaus wall
-evil, needed yorkshire hands
Peapod at rope race
-too many holds for a proper struggle
brunel wall
-three good cracks, easy, but one twists a lot and another is pretty flared
Guidford wall
-one crap one, an ok sitting start.
Indoor cracks are usually to contrived or bristly for fun (I go to the wall for fun as I don't do training indoors) buildings have the best flatland cracks.
Royal holloway (me old uni) has two of the best; chemistry crack- a solid 20' 4" wide severe, and the bane of my life- physics chimney- a 10', 1 1/2' wide engineering brick horror, still cant get more than 1 ft of the deck. Its like hollybush crack at birchens without the chock or jamming crack, whilst being covered in goose fat.
oops I'm enthusing
soz -hose
In reply to Dave: Don't some Americans use crack simulators? It's like the cellar at Leeds but with a crack with size adjustment built in. You can go from finger crack to head size. Jamming also gives you a different type of pump so you probably need to get the different muscles strong.
In reply to Al Evans: The crack by the emergency exit at High Sports (spit!) is probably only 5a but when I've done it, it seems to attract similar comments from younger (I didn't say less experienced) climbers. But then I was brought up on High Rocks cracks!
In reply to Steve C: I did offer E1 5a if it was a bit longer, do you really think its harder than 5a, maybe just 5b, what does anybody else think?
In reply to rasher:
There is indeed..... It's not a continuous crack though but there are some really bomber jams along it. I think the crack itself is OK but the moves from one crackline to t'other are rather "interesting"
For what it's worth I think there should be more crack routes indoors. Obviously it's not as good as crack climbing outside but it's a safe introduction to the art of jamming.
Ade
There is indeed..... It's not a continuous crack though but there are some really bomber jams along it. I think the crack itself is OK but the moves from one crackline to t'other are rather "interesting"
For what it's worth I think there should be more crack routes indoors. Obviously it's not as good as crack climbing outside but it's a safe introduction to the art of jamming.
Ade
In reply to Ade:
E4 6a if my memory is correct. Nottingham has a jamming crack at about VS 4c right by the cafe. Great entertainment can be had watching those who can't jam lead it whilst enjoying one of their excellent cups of tea.
> (In reply to rasher)
>
> There is indeed..... It's not a continuous crack though but there are some really bomber jams along it. I think the crack itself is OK but the moves from one crackline to t'other are rather "interesting"
>
> There is indeed..... It's not a continuous crack though but there are some really bomber jams along it. I think the crack itself is OK but the moves from one crackline to t'other are rather "interesting"
E4 6a if my memory is correct. Nottingham has a jamming crack at about VS 4c right by the cafe. Great entertainment can be had watching those who can't jam lead it whilst enjoying one of their excellent cups of tea.
In reply to Al Evans:
I find that crack at the Edge horrible, and indeed all cracks on indoor walls. They always seem a lot harder than crack climbs (of a 'similar grade') on the grit...
For the ultimate fusion of hot shot crankers and old trad crack climbers, you occasionally see people do the overhanging crack entirely footless. I'm sure Stu will oblige with a demo if you ask him nicely.
Cheers
> I know we've discussed this before, but a funny thing happened down at The Edge last time I was there.
> When I go to walls I rarely boulder but on this occasion I glanced into the bouldering area at The Edge to watch the hot shot teens happily cranking up desperate looking problems. I then noticed an overhanging jamming crack just asking to be climbed. I resolved to finish the session with it.
> When I go to walls I rarely boulder but on this occasion I glanced into the bouldering area at The Edge to watch the hot shot teens happily cranking up desperate looking problems. I then noticed an overhanging jamming crack just asking to be climbed. I resolved to finish the session with it.
I find that crack at the Edge horrible, and indeed all cracks on indoor walls. They always seem a lot harder than crack climbs (of a 'similar grade') on the grit...
For the ultimate fusion of hot shot crankers and old trad crack climbers, you occasionally see people do the overhanging crack entirely footless. I'm sure Stu will oblige with a demo if you ask him nicely.
Cheers
In reply to Gavin:
Nottingham give their entry crack(s) HVS 5a but thats hands and feet in the cracks only (there are some other good features). I'd say its just a little harder than The File. The better one is the discontinuous line of finger locks just right on the bouldering wall that sees even less traffic (5b??). They also have an overhung narrow chimney that I think is trad VD but others swear must be at least VS.
In reply to Nick Smith
I take it you havent climbed Jam and Blast It or Joanna??
Nottingham give their entry crack(s) HVS 5a but thats hands and feet in the cracks only (there are some other good features). I'd say its just a little harder than The File. The better one is the discontinuous line of finger locks just right on the bouldering wall that sees even less traffic (5b??). They also have an overhung narrow chimney that I think is trad VD but others swear must be at least VS.
In reply to Nick Smith
I take it you havent climbed Jam and Blast It or Joanna??
In reply to Al Evans: How about the nasty slimey off-width at the Richard Dunn centre in Bradford (its years since I've been so I'm guessing it still exists)? Or the crack at Guiseley wall (again going back as i think this has been retro fitted) - great for laybacking and depositing yourself in the unpadded corridor
In reply to Gavin: Have been tempted to bring down a few friends to do the crack at the Tower trad style but I suspect some people might not be amused and more importantly the crack would probably break when I inevitably peel off....
As I recall the route's mostly 5b except the first move to grab the crack at about 5c & the stretch between cracks 2 - 3 panels from the top which goes at about 6b and is well out of my league! The only person I've seen do this (and he cruised it) is Dr Read.
But good fun & there should be more. The crack in the Block's rather good as well, if a little painful (smears & crack only for feet of course)
As I recall the route's mostly 5b except the first move to grab the crack at about 5c & the stretch between cracks 2 - 3 panels from the top which goes at about 6b and is well out of my league! The only person I've seen do this (and he cruised it) is Dr Read.
But good fun & there should be more. The crack in the Block's rather good as well, if a little painful (smears & crack only for feet of course)
there's a finger crack on a lead wall in the wicc wall near cardiff that i had a great time on - all technical fingers, the occasional gaston and even a thin hands at one point.
it felt like 5.12 maybe c or d to me, using features for feet - well worth a try if anyone's planning a trip to the valley
it felt like 5.12 maybe c or d to me, using features for feet - well worth a try if anyone's planning a trip to the valley
In reply to hoseyb:
Your right about Chemistry Crack at Royal Holloway, 20ft of cracktastic climbing, best sampled after copious quantities of beer.
For those who haven't done it - think of the first pitch of Valkyrie at Froggatt but made of bricks and mortar and a bit easier. Similar quality climbing too.
Andy.
Never liked Physics Chimney though.... horrible in the extreme.
Your right about Chemistry Crack at Royal Holloway, 20ft of cracktastic climbing, best sampled after copious quantities of beer.
For those who haven't done it - think of the first pitch of Valkyrie at Froggatt but made of bricks and mortar and a bit easier. Similar quality climbing too.
Andy.
Never liked Physics Chimney though.... horrible in the extreme.
In reply to Al Evans:
It's true what you say about some of the younger climbers not being able to jam. But boy can they do some things without them! I think I've told the tale before, but I was amazed when I saw a youth come within an ace of laybacking the bottom section of Rasp Direct. And I mean laybacking, not just bracing / laying away. Get out there and give it a go.
Come to think of it, perhaps that what Chris did to get it up to E4 for the guide?
It's true what you say about some of the younger climbers not being able to jam. But boy can they do some things without them! I think I've told the tale before, but I was amazed when I saw a youth come within an ace of laybacking the bottom section of Rasp Direct. And I mean laybacking, not just bracing / laying away. Get out there and give it a go.
Come to think of it, perhaps that what Chris did to get it up to E4 for the guide?
In reply to Al Evans: The castle has two decent roof cracks for the jamming connisseur- needs loads of tapethough as they are sharp...
In reply to ice: Yes I've tried those roof cracks,but they really are hard as jamming only cracks, incredibly hard for the supposed grade. The long VS crack at The Rope Race is good but unfortunately its mostly laybacking.
Jamming can be a pretty convoluted technique indoors. On a local Uni wall I climbed the 'traditional' (& now ignored)fist jam problem on exactly the same holds without jamming any of it, and downgraded it 3 grades (5b to 4c max) as a result. Ludicrous. I'm sure jamming is not supposed to make your life harder...
In reply to Sarah:
You may have done it without jamming it but you miss the point. it was put there to give you some practice at jamming and if you do it another way you have not got the practice in.
Next time you get on a rounded edged crack that does not yield to any method but jamming you will wish you had tried it in safety.
You may have done it without jamming it but you miss the point. it was put there to give you some practice at jamming and if you do it another way you have not got the practice in.
Next time you get on a rounded edged crack that does not yield to any method but jamming you will wish you had tried it in safety.
In reply to sutty: Well quite. Thats the point isnt it, most of us just use walls as training, in fact I've yet to see a crack move on a competition route, might be worth considering though?
In reply to Al Evans:
You're forgetting the quite infamous BICC in which Chris Plant set a baggy hand crack thru the roof of the foundry. Caused quite a few strops as steely competitors plopped off, only to see have-a-go-hero John Barton cruise the crack, waving to the crowd. Priceless.
Vickers still won though.
You're forgetting the quite infamous BICC in which Chris Plant set a baggy hand crack thru the roof of the foundry. Caused quite a few strops as steely competitors plopped off, only to see have-a-go-hero John Barton cruise the crack, waving to the crowd. Priceless.
Vickers still won though.
In reply to midgets of the world unite: That's brilliant lol , Good for Chris they should try it again, after all cracks are part of climbing aren't they? Can Chris Cubitt and Jamie jam? I expect they can though.
In reply to Al Evans:
It'd be an offwidth for Chris ; )
Judging by the amount of time he takes on his Yosemite epics, I'd say he can jam, but he'd be timed out whilst trying to set up his portaledge...
It'd be an offwidth for Chris ; )
Judging by the amount of time he takes on his Yosemite epics, I'd say he can jam, but he'd be timed out whilst trying to set up his portaledge...
In reply to Al Evans:
One of those Yosemite off width thrutches with no pro would be interesting, 20' to the first runner and just one awful thrutch.
One of those Yosemite off width thrutches with no pro would be interesting, 20' to the first runner and just one awful thrutch.
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