UKC

So. Let's talk plastic and specifically why some walls are just better than others. Maybe they care more?? Maybe they're just better run?? Maybe the owners have more of a clue than others??

Let's start with Sheffield and shuffle around the UK, everyone feel free to pipe up with opinions or if you want to just blast me, please, feel free.

Awesome Walls, Sheffield. To start, it's not awesome. So far from it. Contrived, competition style setting. I hate that about modern walls. Everything has to be 'competition' style. WHY!!! 90% of any climbing walls clientele have no desire to compete or go to competitions or have any idea about the IFSC, they probably think it's a rubbish bank. And what are these people offered?? Jug ladders..... now I'm no setter but if I was paying a setter a, not inconsiderable, sun of money so that my clients could enjoy my facilities I would expect them to have a slight bit of imagination. You can use big friendly holds in interesting ways so as to encourage and show progress,  not just go jug to jug and hey presto, it's a 4+ that's almost identical to the one on the opposite wall. I'm not going to talk about the bouldering because I can't think of enough negative adjectives to describe it.

The Foundry. I like this wall but it needs to sort itself out. A fantastic centre if you lead in the high 7s and above. Same as awesome walls if you're climbing in the 5s & 6s (the majority of their customers) you'll get bored very quickly with the poor display of jug ladders and the even more poor selection of old, tired, slippy holds. Bouldering is decent. A nice change from the plywood monoliths going up around the country and the moon board is a joyous little novelty.

And finally.....

The Climbing Works. Unit E. Why? Yes the works may be the training center for the elite boulders in the UK but do they make up your core customer base? Are they the ones pushing the capacity and the limited space to dangerous levels on a weekly basis? No, they're not. Because they climb during the day. Unit E is the biggest waste of money since the double gate carabiner (I mention no brands) if it was mine it would be aimed for everyone to ease the congestion in the works. Keep the competition wall for the hardcore and elite. There is a new wall opening early 2019 and with the current standard in the works I worry they wont be able to compete as people will be drawn to a different experience if indoor bouldering. Light and airy with dust free facilities. 

As a final disclaimer just so people dont get too offended (I'm not trying to deflect shots and I wholly welcome a solid debate about the above points) I genuinely quite like all the above walls. Yes I've focused on the negatives but theres enough people blowing smoke up arses and I thought I'd see what other peoples opinions are.

I'm very jaded with the Sheffield indoor scene as it never seems to progress and the same poor route setting is on show with the same people thinking that just because its Sheffield climbers will love it

Comments please!!

Kendal wall. Now awesome due to the new route setting dude who's super mental keen. Constantly refreshed routes and bouldering, always top notch. Cheers Ben, it's made a *huge* difference. Grades are a bit soft though, I prefer sandbaggy indoor grades, encourages harder training and outdoor climbing seems easier (which is the ultimate aim of the membership fee for me). 

Ah Jon, you ruined my next review. Hopefully I can elaborate on your points.

Wow a 99 year old who is computer literate and still able to climb in the high sevens, or did you just get an assessment of the quality of those routes from the punters?

Anyway, bit dissapointed really, thought you were going to have a rant about the amount of plastic rubbish left behind at climber centres daily, you know, all the ropes, harnesses, chalk bags, some clothing is largely plastic too, drinks bottles, single and those meant for multi use, that careless people leave and seemingly often can't even bother to go back and re-claim.... Going by the amount piled up in some climbing wall lost property cupboards. Oh well, at least it can sometimes be donated to schools, charities etc., I think.

I think it is a general problem with indoor climbing as a sport: you charge up to a natural limit where you aren't willing to commit more effort or accept more risk to keep progressing and then you stop.  At that point there isn't ever enough in the sweet spot between too easy to be interesting and too hard to be worth trying.  Without the other attractions of somewhere like Font indoors gets boring when the progress curve flattens out.

I know!! Shock!

Maybe we can touch upon this in a future thread. If I'm being honest it's not something I've ever thought, or cared about.

If you want to say that indoor climbing is boring and outdoors is better, please do. I wont disagree! In terms of having an outdoor playspot like Font I think Plantation has something to offer!

Please don't

Blimey - if your three walls are the works, the foundry, and awesome walls and you're still moaning then you are spoilt indeed. 

My closest wall is situated in something that can best described as a large(ish) cow shed.  The few lead routes it has are around 6m high, you have to supply your own quickdraws, and there's not lower offs - so you need to reverse lead to get your stuff back.  The bouldering wall covers around 40 square metres, and every third hold spins - which is handy if your main training goal is to acquire injuries.  The entrance fee (the last (and only) time I went) is 16 euros, plus 2 euros to enter the premises, plus several euros more if you want the lights turned on (?!).  If you want heating turned on too, then you need to present a blank cheque and your house deeds.  And you're only allowed an hour.  I think the routes are changed around once a decade (only joking - they're never changed).

Think you should have used your original username too, rather than just re-registering to be 'anonymous' - whatever that means in an internet forum context.  Coward

It would be good if you could have posted as your proper user name and we had some idea of your experience and age as I suspect your not really aged 99.

I enjoy using all 3 Sheffield walls so don't really agree with your comments. I use them for training for the outside and taken as a whole there is a lot of variety to use to train on. 

Awesome walls - rotate the routes frequently and lots of different sorts of holds to work your weaknesses on. I quite like the endurance circuits in the bouldering area as well and the autobelays are changed frequently and they appear to use a range of route setters to give some variety

The Foundry - The route setting is generally pretty good and I still like to boulder on the Wave and use the woodie area. It would be good if the routes got changed a bit more frequently on the main walls

Climbing works - yes I admit the new area is too hard for me but its additional space so will get used by someone. The works changes the climbs on a regular basis and has some really good route setting so no complaints on that front. Yes its busy but thats because people like to go there.

Looking forward to the Depot opening next year to give even more choice. 

As I say at the end of my comment, I'm bored with them. They dont so anything different and there are better walls out there.

Yep! And proud

Not the point though is it. My age and experience is irrelevant compared to my opinions of these 3 centres.

The most recent routes up are pants in my opinion.

You climb or have climbed 8a, therefore you are fitting nicely into the category of climbers who climb in the high 7s and 8s and benefit from better route setting.

I like to go to the works too. I dont like feeling like its overly busy and having to squeeze through everyone. 

I've not been to the places you're talking about, so have no comment on them.

A few thoughts, though:

You're talking about climbing in the 5s and 6s and resenting running out of routes, and about being bored by the problems. One problem here is probably how you train and the challenges you set yourself, avoiding unusual problem types - e.g. the volume-based 'competition' problems - because they're different and troubling to your perceived ideas of your abilities. It's easier to dismiss walls as 'shit' than to deal with your own training problems.

Having said this, I think walls often do set lots of very juggy problems, and it's hard to get enough problems with very small holds in the 6s. I think this is partly the nature of plastic and plywood; partly because lots of strong young climbers with poor technique really want problems that flatter them; partly because of the time and work pressures that no doubt sometimes lead to setters making compromises to fill space.

Walls get busy - another theme of your comments. Well, yes - there's a kind of 6pm/7pm rush hour, as people pile in after work. To be honest, the idiocy of the 9am - 5pm, 5-days a week working day can hardly be left at the door of climbing walls. And it effects everything else, too - from the commute to the national parks. Maybe blame your boss instead of your climbing wall, and demand flexible working hours and more time off.

Personally, I think climbing walls have come on a long way in the last ten years. If you visit enough walls, you come across the old fashioned places and those with failing business models, where holds are old and greasy, problems are never changed, and the atmosphere is cold and dank, as though indoor climbing were meant to be a form of punishment. But, where I live, in Lancaster, I have the small Lancaster Uni wall as an easy regular place to go, Kendal for high quality sessions, and Boulder UK for a fun boulder training jaunt - all within 40 minutes drive. There's talk of a new bouldering centre opening in the city, too! These places certainly have problems, but probably it's the practical issues (transport - I don't have a car; cost - I'm fairly broke; and crowding, at times) that bother me more than the setting, as I always seem to find something to go at.

The place I find most lacking in terms of quality is the LU wall - mostly because it's very small so doesn't have as much to go at as somewhere like Kendal. But, I go often because I can get there walking/cycling/on the bus after work. Although it's small, I still normally manage to occupy myself. Once I've completed all the problems below V6, I either have to try harder on the V6s or make up my own problems or do training exercises and drills - e.g. traverses, laps, eliminates, setting big moves or no hands corners, or linking problems into long endurance exercises. Then the month is up and the problems are changed. The only thing that is impossible to do easily and well is build leading endurance on the 9m walls. But, I've still had fun doing 5 laps of routes with a friend who is masochistic.

So, maybe think about what's wrong with your approach rather than with the plastic..!

Punter who climbs in the 5's and 6's reporting in. I rarely climb indoor routes but if I do it's at the Foundry. The routes are often a bit cruxy but overall I find the setting interesting. If anyone disses the Wave bouldering in any shape or form, like Liam Nesson "I will find you, and I will kill you." The Works is my local wall though. I prefer the setting there to the Depot in Manchester, which imho flatters to deceive a little. Too high, mats too stiff for my old knees, and some boring hold sets apart from the red Font style ones which are brilliant. Knowing that a large wall of similar nature is opening this year, I think the Works have made the right call by opening an elite climbing/training room - it'll give them a USP which just more of the same would not have given them. This is despite it being too difficult for me. Does the Works feel small and cramped by modern standards? Perhaps, but to me setting is king and nowhere is better. The one thing missing - more circuit board space. I like the Manchester Depot having 2 different angle boards, and it stays cooler than the main wall area due to its location.

Totally agree.  My daughter loves his settings and because Ben is so enthusiastic, the way he discusses why/how he sets is brilliant. My daughter is 11 and will happily discuss the merits of his settings with him 1 to 1.  She even got on his recent settings and graded them herself.   Tbh the centre is very open with conversations on the reasons for their settings.  We keep asking for more 7c’s on the King Kong wall for her 4x4’s but they responded by explaining average grades and what putting a couple of those routes on would do to their solid customer base who use it.  Once explained we had a new awareness of how they structure routes around the centre.   The bouldering settings are also a highlight.  There is plenty to keep everyone interested.  

We also climb at Eden rock.  Must say, we have climbed all over the country and I still haven’t found a centre who can match Carlisle for the walls and settings.  They don’t have the competition ethos in their setting which can be slightly difficult when you come up against entire climbs on volume type holds but there is such scope and variety.  The only negative lately is I haven’t seen/noticed any new holds in a long time, I hope Edinburgh isn’t getting all the new ones.  I would say boulder uk is the most similar.

The other centre I would offer praise for offering something different is Rock Over.  The hub is great but when we visited it was closed so a LOT of the comp holds were out on the main walls.  It made it a fantastic set of climbs.

So to summarise:

1) You can’t do the competition style problems and therefore don’t like them

2) You’re surprised easy routes have jugs on

What do you expect? Where I live I have a converted squash court to train in. It’s reset every 4 months (at best) and I often volunteer to help out with this so never really get to try and flash anything. I’d kill to have even half of one of the Sheffield walls within an hour drive.

I haven't said anywhere is shit, just that these are the bits I don't like! And theres no need to be rude. I can train however I want. Alot of the problem for me when people set routes 3 bolt holds wide and expect it to be decent. it never is.

The only wall in Sheffield I've been to that's gets overly busy is the works. Foundry is busy but manageable. Awesome walls echos it's so empty. The works is crazy levels of busy. When you look down and people are wandering around beneath you you do start to wonder what the actual capacity of the place is.

Maybe, maybe I just hate indoor climbing. 

Another thumbs up for Kendal wall's recent setting.  I'm Manchester based, so not a regular, but have had a couple of visits recently and was very impressed.  

I particularly like that the problems tend not to be reach-dependent - I'm not very tall so this does make the experience much more enjoyable.

You've tried to summarise and haven't 

Didnt say I couldn't do them just I'm not a competition, plastic rat, vest and beanie wearing gym whore. So the whole concept of jumping and throwing rather than using technique is a foreign concept to me.

I think you may want to have another read.

Meh, not my problem.

Jumping and throwing is a technique in itself. Just one I suspect you can’t do and therefore don’t like.

I can read thanks, no need to be condescending. If I’ve mis-understood it would be helpful if clarified your point?

I never said it was, just portraying some context for you. Walls in Sheffield are about as good as it gets IMO. The point I’m making is that although they’re not perfect, but are far better than many other offerings.

As an expat I haven't tied a rope on at a UK wall this century, so I'll refrain from commenting on routes.

But I would say the bouldering walls that I visit somewhat regularly, because they're near where members of my family live - Manchester Depot, Loughborough Climbing Station, Norwich Highball - all, especially in the lower grades, set more interesting and rock-relevant movement than the Bavarian walls I go to. And these include some well known and supposedly world  class places like Cafe Kraft & Boulderwelt. (Haven't been to the new one in Innsbruck yet)

Perhaps some of this is the "always a bit bored with one's home wall" effect, but I suspect not all of it.

I'm  not allowed to be condescending but you're allowed to insult my ability? Interesting stance.

See the above.

They are average compared to walls in Manchester IMO. 

You must be something approaching the above if you can manage to live in an area with easily accessible, year round climbing and yet  somehow still claim to be bored of three large climbing walls. 

Oooooo!!!! What do you suspect it is?? Do you smell an ulterior motive!

Must I?? Please, elaborate. 

I'm guessing from most peoples replies that they're happy and content with the walls in Sheffield? Thats fine. I'm not!

You really are coming across as a bit of a tw*t.

How I am insulting your ability? I’ve presumed that you can’t do comp problems and therefore don’t like it when they’re set. If someone can’t do something, then stating that fact is not insulting. For example: I can’t play violin. If someone tells me I can’t play violin, I accept it as a fact, not whinge that I’ve been insulted. If I’m wrong, and you can get up these things, then that’s an error on my part I’ll happily apologise for. FWIW I am terrible at comp problems, but accept its one of my weaknesses so put my ego to one side and try them in an attempt to push myself and become better at climbing all-round. 

Thats your opinion. I’ve not been to any Manc walls so can’t compare. If the walls in Manchester are so much better either a) go there or b) wait for the depot to open in Sheffield and go there instead.

Hence the anonymous profile I suspect

Best wall I've been to. Great friendly atmosphere, great build (unlike kendal bouldering where there's far too much slab wall and roof, and nowhere near enough 30 degrees overhang), great setting. 

Usually I climb indoors for training, but I actually go up to Eden for fun! 

Sounds like you need to climb outdoors a bit more mate

I may have done so in the past but indoors my current experience is between 6a and 7a+ and it was climbs of those grades that my observations were based upon. 

Apologies if it came across as rude - it wasn't intended as such. Using words like 'shit' is how I normally speak in friendly settings. 

I guess I'm speaking in part from where I'm at right now with my own indoor climbing, which is trying to work out how to use it to progress further and faster. Mostly, I find myself compartmentalising, so that some sessions might be an end in themselves - about trying having fun with friends trying hard problems; whereas other sessions are more a means to and end - trying to use what is there to train.

And, it's all with an eye to going back outside as soon as possible! Tried to get out recently but the crags were too dank. Soon it'll be time for winter climbing, hopefully! And I've done some good climbing in January and Feb before, so maybe we won't have to wait too long  

Hence why I'm using an anonymous profile exactly! People dont like reading about opinions the dont agree with. This way people can shout and scream at me without cares or worries. And I can accept any and all criticism of my opinions,  because that's exactly what this is about. My opinion and not giving a shit what other people think.

Dont like it dont read/comment but its everyones right to display and opinion just like its everyone's right to not agree and debate against my opinion!!

Happy Christmas everyone

You do realise that it is possible to express an opinion without coming across as a tw@t. Your opinion is not the tw@tish bit.

climbing outdoors is the problem, there you find a subtlety of movement even on low grade easy angled rock which can't be reproduced when the average angle indoors is overhanging.

Perhaps the solution is more slabs indoors, but they tend to bruise the strongman's ego and their shins as they slip of a smear and crash into the juggy beginners route set on the same piece of wall. 

I appreciate a good slab that is well set. You can have some lovely balancey routes with interesting footwork and body positions. ????

Yep, totally agree.

Sadly when you have a negative opinion on the works you get shouted down.

Maybe I am just a t!@t and enjoy winding people up?

Maybe people just need to chill out?

Apologies for the ignorance, but can someone explain to me what a 'competition' style wall route is? 

(I don't get 'in' often)

When you're bored of The Foundry then you're bored of life

Yes, Ratho has had some masterpieces up the lead slab, but the sticking out holds on the beginners' routes are offputting (at least that's my excuse....... ).

On a lead route it means the bottom third is a waste of time because it's so easy and the top bit is so hard that you might as well have gone bouldering. It generally isn't worth the bother for the middle bit.

For bouldering it's all slopey presses on volumes to wreck your shoulders and daft parkours style jumps and you're almost invariably left thinking it's not of any training value for actual climbing.

Gets progressively harder, without any proper rests. In order to better separate the competitors, and make for a better spectacle.

If I understand correctly, competition style problems are set primarily with grippy fibre-glass or resin volumes, rather than conventional resin holds, and often involve big, dynamic moves and real concentration on body position even to hold on! This is based on what has appeared on one board at Kendal, anyhow, where there are a few "doable" problems as well some space-age enigmas, involving massive double dynos, etc.

It can be like that, but depends how well set it is. The difference between the bottom and top doesn't have to be so exaggerated and would probably be a better route if it wasn't.

Thanks all, it was a genuine question. An interesting range of definitions!

I disagree with quite a lot of your OP but sadly must break from the tradition of the internet which would normally require insulting you because I want to pontificate at length about my own opinions.

Awesome walls - I don't really know what "competition style" is but I've seen footage a few comps and I don't think it bears any resemblance to the setting in the 6s at awesome walls. I've never found the need to leap several feet and then pinch a weird shaped volume while heelhooking another slopey volume, for example, while leading a 6a. The setting at Awesome walls is quite variable in quality as well as grade stiffness. They used to have a problem with very long reaches with the next holds needing full stretch or more and with no intermediates. I'm 5'9''with positive ape index so while I'm slightly shorter than the UK male average I'm not especially short on reach. It turns out they had a couple of really tall setters though who was just set jugs but spaced them for their own height. This has been less of a problem recently though and there are plenty of crimpy or sloping holds on the slabs or vertical walls in the mid 6s. Sure, on the steep walls there are jugs on 6a+s but there sort of have to be. I basically agree with your comprehensive assessment of the bouldering there and have nothing to add.

Foundry - I like the Foundry, especially the Furnace and I disagree with your comment about "jug ladders" below 7a. My hardest clean leads have been on pure crimp 6c and 6c+ up the middle of the Furnace. Last time I went, there was a white 6a which topped out on small crimps, a yellow "6c" (6b really) that featured positive but non juggy holds followed by a rockover off thin crimps and a sort-of mantel on a big yellow ball. There was a 6b+ (orange or mango maybe?) which featured bridging and cranking on rounded holds after which I ended up almost horizontal on a pair of thin, crimpy pockets. The fact that I can remember them now sort of suggests they weren't boring jug ladders. Like AWS, on the steeper walls you obviously get jugs on 6a but I don't see how you avoid that. I will accept your point about tired, slippery holds and I think the wave is great.

The Works - I notice that you don't criticise the climbing at the works at all, mostly focussing on something called "Unit E" which I have not heard of. (I've skipped the Works since October as a hand injury prevented me pulling hard enough for indoor bouldering) The works has great setting with many, even super easy problems which don't rely on jugs. The works style is the closest to Font weirdness I have found anywhere indoors. When I've (rarely) travelled to indoor bouldering walls elsewhere I've found them to have more in common with the grab and pull monotony of AWS bouldering than interesting problems of the Works. That said, I look forward to the new Depot opening in March. The Work's is dark, worn and insanely busy and I hope they never discover something called "climber's lung" because if they do that place is going to kill me. I was once told "there is no such thing as good dust" on a health and safety course and I think that's a fairly sensible mantra.

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking!

It is becoming my favourite wall to climb at atm.  I know a couple of others who feel the same too. 

Keep up the good work Kendal! 

Clearly not if you're hinting that they're overpaid.

Someone mentioned the 'USP' of the Works being facilities for the uber-strong.  I see what you're getting at there and I agree that it sometimes feels we punters are being short-changed a bit.  That really isn't it though, the USP of the Works is its location in leafy suburbia.  The Depot won't challenge that, however good it is.  (And I have no doubt that it'll be very good indeed.) 

I suspect it will stimulate its own demand, what we will end up with is a city that has even more indoor climbers than it does now.  Location-wise, what the Depot will have that the Foundry and AW do not is a tram stop right outside.

It's annoying that the Works is often so over-crowded, and probably quite fair to note that the new unit might be a bit of a wasted opportunity to alleviate that somewhat.  And dear god a bit of tactful floor-walking now and then to remind people not to sprawl about on the mats and leave water bottles lying about everywhere when it's busy wouldn't go amiss.  But then the new unit is still almost a secret while the Mini-Works is also frequently near empty when the main centre is rammed.  Perhaps it's just in the nature of having several separate units that it's hard to use one to ease the crowding in another.  People just don't want to put their shoes back on and scuttle across the carpark mid-session.

It does seem a bit weird to suggest that the wall is failing somehow because it's absolutely heaving so much of the time.  You know they're running a business right?

I was back at the Manchester Depot this week for the first time in a while (only about the 4th time ever).  It's really very very good, I like the setting and I appreciate having a lot more space to breathe than you get in the Works on a weeknight.  (And more importantly space to explode off a fluffed move, being a big daft lad trying hard and all, and land on the mat instead of some hapless idiot who's randomly decided to have a bit of a sit-down in the middle of the piste.)

But oh my god you can forgive the Works a lot for not having those bloody stupid iPads bolted to the wall and asking you to repeatedly fill in the same form with the same information on a greasy touch-screen app running at a snail's pace, struggling to click pinhead sized boxes with fat calloused fingertips that the iPad intermittently refuses to recognise as even human.

I climb indoors, almost daily at the minute and I'm lucky enough to live close by to what is in my opinion the best bouldering gym in the north - Boulder UK.

I just can't get on with anywhere else - the boardroom is pretty good, the depot at Manchester not so much. 

As for leading, Kendal is awesome - pity my nearest lead wall is Westview.

Westview if you are reading please get Ian Vickers back to set some routes!

Very little comment so far on the two most important factors, the quality of the music and quality/price of the coffee

Of the Sheffield walls AW has the best music; good mix of classic rock music and more interesting modern music, followed by Works - I'll put up with some of the rubbish to get sessions with the good bits and worst the Foundry - relentless modern dance crap totally at odds with the age span of clients.  All 3 Sheffield venues do good and reasonably priced coffee.  I also occasionally visit Kendal when in the area for work.  I don't mind paying a higher entry fee for such a big facility but the price of the coffee is unjustifiable.

As well as hanging out for music and coffee I also use the walls for training. Generally all of the modern bouldering facilities are not as good for training as the much loved and lamented former Broughton wall in Salford. 

I think the lead wall setting at AW and Foundry is certainly good in the upper 6s.  The AW auto belays at AW are usually excellent for training and very well set, The Foundry is limited for auto belay training.  I mainly use the Works for its excellent but limited circuit board - very well set flowing endurance circuits. For me too much of the rest of the bouldering at the Works seems to be gymnastic puzzles rather than realistic climbing, but the problems are well set and fun. Despite having a large bouldering area the boulder setting at AW continues to be unimaginative.  The circuit boards have lots of potential but the setting has not been done as well as at the Works (the original setting was best), flow interrupted by stopper or excessive reach moves. I would suggest putting a lot of thought into getting the circuits right then leaving them.  Why hasn't the Foundry got a circuit board?

Having said all that we are blessed with a range of excellent walls, with generally excellent commitment by the owners and staff

Another vote for Kendal wall, which is also rarely crowded outside the “honeypot” hours of 6 to 7 pm on weekdays. 

I did write what I thought was going to be a well informed reply but I've ended up editing it to this.

You're either a troll, or you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

When you can either open your own wall, or manage one, that achieve a better standard than the Sheffield walls then you'll be a very rich man. Good luck with it.

Well, let's see what we've got:

• One major lead wall with some fairly iconic bouldering.
• A *huge* lead wall, with admittedly a bit of a missed opportunity for much better bouldering than they actually have.
• A major bouldering wall in a leafy residential district within easy distance of loads of climbers.
• Another major bouldering wall opening soon, which seems likely to be even bigger than the (enormous) Manchester branch.
• A cheap and very decent converted squash court bouldering wall in student land.  (Which hasn't even been worthy of a mention so far, but even this one is better than many people have within commuting distance.)

I'm guessing that, failing 'happy and content', we are at least aware that we're better served for indoor climbing than just about anywhere else in the country if not the world. 

Yes there is always room for improvement, but if you're really feeling the need to whinge about it you should try living in Ipswich or somewhere for a bit while you 'check your privilege' as they say.

Is that at the Goodwin sports centre?  is it open to the public?

Yes, and yes. 

I think.  At least it was the last time I went there, which has been a while now.  (A couple of years at least.)  It was always rather warm in there, so being a bit nesh I tended to go for one or two sessions a year when I just couldn't face the sub-zero temperatures in the Works.  More recently I've been hiding from the cold in the Mini-Works or just sacking off the bouldering entirely and doing something else instead.

It's called 'The Matrix'.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/listings/info.php?id=464&t=wall

I'm guessing youe user name means you will be critiquing various walls around the country?

I look forward to a review of Ratho.

Have been to all the Sheffield Walls, I think London is better served these days.

You have me at a disadvantage there, I've never visited any of the London walls.  But London is a huge sprawling city of about 9 million people, it's all relative innit.

If you live right next door to one of the Sheffield walls you can still cycle to any of the others within about 25mins or so.  If you fancied a change, in about the same time it takes to schlep from one side of London to the other you could also (just about) jump in the car and drive from Sheffield to Nottingham, Derby, Leeds, Marple, Stockport or Manchester. 

(Oh, and btw..  none of the walls in any of those places will charge you an entry fee if you're just belaying the kids.)

Climbing walls have to accommodate several different categories of climbers, with differing requirements.  Off the top of my head, I can think of the following:

1) Beginners, who've come to learn how to climb because they've been told that this is the way to start, together with scout groups, birthday parties, stag and hen dos, etc

2) Those climbers who positively enjoy climbing indoors and who want to climb ever harder routes, and want them to be interesting.

3) Gym rats for whom the wall is a means of specialised training

4) Boulderers

5) Punters, probably climbing in the 4s, 5s and lower 6s, for whom it is mainly a way to keep climbing during the grim winter months.  What some walls appear to forget is that these are not necessarily novices, and they also want routes which are interesting and challenging and not simply there to make up the numbers.

There are probably others, and of course they may overlap.

Add in that some will want routes to be reset frequently so they don't get bored, while others want them to remain for longer so they can continue to work them until they succeed.  It is hardly surprising that many walls struggle to satisfy all these different needs. 

Cities with a relatively large number of climbers can support a number of climbing walls and this allows them to diversify and focus on particular segments of the market.  This probably why Sheffield can accommodate an elite training area, even though the OP seems to think this is a waste of space.  In other areas which can only support one wall that will have to try to satisfy everyone, and will probably only partially succeed.

I have the privilege (or not) of working all over the world and UK. I can honestly say the UK is incredible well stocked with walls. Compared to somewhere like the states where you could be driving 3/4 hours to your local wall!

So the good, my local is red goat in York imo it's one of the best bouldering walls in the country. Awesome training area lovely vibe cheapish friendly etc. The setting is good on the whole and the only criticism is that sometimes a circuit maybe considerably easier or hard than the last one. But it's consistent across the whole circuit so no issue. And easy problems are set with real care. 

Another shout goes to the YMCA cube in port talbot. The essence of a " climbers" climbing wall. No gimmicks just a house of power good setting clean and a bluetooth speaker perfect ????. 

The bad, Another of my locals doesn't allow screw ons and uses very harse grip paint. I climbed there recently after a long lay off of going. It's has truly woeful setting that basically involves huge jumps or locks between jugs. With 0 intermediate foot holds to allow for any adaptions. Also the setting which is always dynamic (nearly) is exasperated by holds that have the friction of cheese grater. Oh and the grading is mental V2 that feel V7 and V7 that's feel V2.  Shame on the whole the angles at the wall are excellent and it could be a truly amazing. 

Lead walls in the UK are in a really poor state, last year I climbed at the main lead wall in Rockville in DC and that is amazing.

Ratho is ok but Baltic cold and most others are to short or un inspiring. 

I think for lead walls you've go to go all out and go for an Oslo or Innsbruck style setup or just don't bother build an awesome bouldering wall. Half arsed lead walls are crap.  

But it could be far far worse. Lost of countries don't even have walls outside the major cities. Think about the Nordic countries States etc. Going to a wall night be a weekend affair. 

Someone should probably tell Alter Rock that they shouldn't bother with a half arsed lead wall..

This is an interesting post...... But the comment about Nordic walls seem strange. Helsinki has some of the best walls I've been to. I realise that it is the capital but even the small boulder wall in Jyvaskyla is pretty decent and I think there are new walls opening up all over the country.

The best thing about Finnish bouldering walls was when you bought an annual pass, you got a key and could climb whenever you liked. I can't imagine that happening at the UK walls. The setting can be a bit hit and miss, as they let members set their own problems, but for those complaining about the style, there is something that you can do about it.

"Location-wise, what the Depot will have that the Foundry and AW do not is a tram stop right outside."

Have you looked at how you will get from the tram stop to the Depot? I have

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Nunnery+Square/@53.3854581,-1.442537,11...

The Depot is the triangular (ish) building Parkway side of the tramline.

Rumour has it that the Depot will include a resurrection of Broughton, cast from a plaster of Paris mould taken before the original was demolished.  Can anybody confirm?

Not heard that rumour. Black Nick is too tight to spend the petrol money coming over from Manc so it will be under used I wonder if they will still have the old mats as well!

But then again the rumour was that the Depot was opening in the old Virgin gym just up the railway from the Works https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Virgin+Active+Sheffield+Millhouses/@53....

That rumour was put about by Steve Dunning

With all the climbing wall development going on its a great shame that a facility as good as the former Bendcrete Broughton wall is not included, it really was a brilliant and very effective training facility, got me up my hardest sport and trad routes, and a lot more fun than a finger board for finger strength

Sorry just for clarity as I think you misunderstood me. I'm not criticizing Nordic walls. Ive worked over in Finland and the closest wall to me was maybe 3 hours away. I was 8 hours north of Helsinki. 

My point was most UK cities even small ones have one perhaps 2 or more walls usually of an ok standard and whilst Nordic wall imo are truly world class i.e the ones in Helsinki, Stockholm and Oslo, get out of the big cities though they are few and far between in comparison to the UK meaning lots of travel. 

In that respect there similar to the states. I was working in Nebraska this year for example and there was one actual dedicated wall in the whole state. 6 hour round trip to go to a wall. 

So no criticism of quality just geography and population size etc.

Called in to Eden Rock this weekend, and as usual had a great and fun session, never overcrowded whe I’ve visited.

the take home message for other walls might be that it doesn’t matter how good the facility is if it’s overcrowded.

Graeme it looks like a couple of minutes walk across the park and ride car park at nunnery square tram stop. Have I looked at this right?

I think that there is no pedestrian access through the Supertram tramsheds. When I go to Makro or the M1 at rush hour I drive out on Cricket Inn Road so have an awareness of the area.

The problem with Broughton, and that whole generation of unchangeable cast concrete walls, is this:

I used to go there regularly in its heyday in the 90s & thought it was the bees knees. A decade and a half of climbing hiatus & emigration later, I made it back for one nostalgic visit just before it finally closed for ever. It was polished to death & barely climbable.

That would certainly scupper my "tram stop right outside" theory.

I mean it is, the southbound platform at Nunnery Square is all of about 15m away from the building - looks like it would only need a little ginnel to reduce Paul's couple of minutes' walk to about thirty seconds.  It seems ridiculous if you can't walk from one to the other, but looking closer it does look like you might be right. 

I didn't notice it being too polished at the end, however if  I didn't go for a while I found the Broughton Power ebbed and needed some solid training to replenish

It looks like a 5 min 0.3mile walk around on the road from Google Maps, is this wrong? Should be manageable with a couple of rests for most boulderers! 

I moved to Sheffield in ‘86 and the ‘indoor scene’ was cellar boards, AP’s Garage (before it caught fire), and pull-ups in the Polytechnic Gym then the Al Rouse Wall. Apart from cragging, there was traversing Red Lane, Mushroom Lane, Broomgrove Wall or hitch from Hunters Bar to Minus 10 wall at Stoney. All in all, the ‘Sheffield Indoor Scene’ has fantastically progressed. Actually, my very favourite wall (while Percy was routesetter) has been and gone.

my only gripe is desperate overcrowding, which Ive addressed by building a full height moon board and cave in my garage. The problem setting is really pants compared to the Sheffield walls though

I think whether it's of training value for rock climbing depends on what sort of real climbing you want to pursue.

If your aims are mostly based around "old school" crimpy technical challenges it's going to be of limited use, but if you want to climb steep sport routes in Spain, competition style boulder problems are brilliant for learning to maintain body tension through complex movement patterns.

After not touching plastic for many years, and having hit something of a plateau on Spanish limestone, l came back to gym climbing this year and I'm making progress with this type of problem... I'm quite excited to see what this will do for my climbing when I get back out there.

Anyone like to analyse what it is about the Kendal setting that makes it so good?

I have my own opinions but wonder what other folk think.

I moved up to Sheffield from London this year. I enjoy 6s and 7s and my kids climb 5s and 6s.

In London I was fortunate to live nearby several amazing climbing centres. We'd go climbing twice a week and there were always fresh new very well set routes for my kids to climb, and loads of bouldering too.

The Foundry doesn't have much for them, no bouldering really, and the easier routes are not set often enough. The main lead walls are great. The Autobelay walls need to be reset more often and the vertical walls in the main hall not neglected. We really like the vibe though, and it's really good value so we keep going back. 

Only been to Awesome Walls once - they didn't have any kind of family discount so it cost a bloody fortune for the 3 of us. The Autobelays were a bit shit. The the  easier routes seemed plentiful and ok. Harder routes were good. 

Re the Works I always compare it to the Stronghold in Tottenham, London which is far cleaner, is very reset very often and very well, their holds are new, and is never crowded. The best wall I have ever bouldered at. The Works just doesn't match it.

Having said that I've now got the Peak on my doorstep now so I'm not complaining!