/ UKC Fit Club 626

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Tom Green on 17 Mar 2019

Hi Team.

I hope it's been a productive week for all Fit Club inmates?

Firstly: good chat on last weeks thread. Thanks to all who shared tips for real climbing training with us Z1 zombies!

Secondly: great reading through peoples STG/MTG/LTGs. Some awesome stuff on the hitlist and its cool to put a bit of context to the weekly training reports.

Thirdly: it's only 40 short weeks to week 666! Probably a good time to restate your devilish 666 goals.

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity. UKC fit club is a rich community with posters sharing their goals, noting successes and failures and offering support to those struggling to maintain motivation. Anyone interested in starting is very welcome to join, but to get the most of UKC fit club you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits and drive you towards achieving your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.

For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles are linked here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=274502 

Last week’s thread can be found here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/walls+training/ukc_fit_club_625-701694

Posters:

AJM: glad to hear the van is healthy again! How was Font? Did you manage to avoid the worst of the weather? Good goals, with some nice variety. What will need most work? Will it largely be training by climbing?

Tom Green: time to get realistic about the chance of getting back to Scotland this winter and shift to Q2 goals and training plan.

Ianstevens: I like the progression of your STG->MTG->LTG. With the hill reps, do you use these to help with speed for the park runs? I find I've lost a lot of speed through focussing on long, slow running. Did you make it to yesterday's comp in the end?

Lornajkelly: good work getting three good sessions in to a challenging week. Canal tow-paths are ace for getting running mileage back up -such a good surface for getting joints back used to the abuse! Did this week see that pre-Germany 6a tick?

Somerset Swede Basher: mate, that sounds like a next level rough week. One for us all to benchmark against when we are feeling sorry for ourselves with a cold or tweaked finger! Sounds like you dealt with it with more fortitude than most. Extra kudos for nicking a cheeky FA -great work! Hope this week has been good for chilling and recuperation.

biscuit: Happy Birthday! Great goals, especially the Shelter Stone routes. Every winter I decide to go to the Cairngorms in summer but I never get around to it! Did you get skiing this week? It sounded like there was some great backcountry to be had if you were careful about snow cons. Feeling on track for the Haute Route?

Alan Little: has the new rope arrived yet? sounds like a sight to behold! Sounds like a good, well-structured week 10 for you. Respect for the regular antagonist work. Think I may have to visit the Frankenjura for the apres-climbing -sounds ace! I would regard that as good recovery for mind and body! 

guy127917: good work 'listening to your body' on Tues/Weds! -sometimes forcing yourself out can be the wrong thing. Were you pleased with yesterday's trail race? Sounds like you're primed for smashing some classic boulder problems... Time to take the newly carpeted van for a long weekend in Font?

SFrancis: a solid week. Good work with the deadlifting (have you seen the thread on the other channel equating certain weights to sport grades? -made me chuckle!) I can recommend the Sudgrat of the Salbit if that's where you end up, but I reckon you'd be more than up for the 'real' one! How was the booze-control this week?!

Planetmarshall: top work with the Alpine Combine gains. You must be chuffed with that progress. It certainly bodes well for those long steep Pabbay pitches! You mention choosing wide grip pull-ups as better for your shoulders... are the shoulders niggly at the moment? What prehab do you do other than the large muscle group antagonists?

Ardo: wow, you put some miles in, each day! Makes my daily dog walks look a bit pathetic! I'm assuming the weather was similarly disruptive to outdoor plans this week? Did you get some productive indoor sessions in?

Powerpuff: sorry to hear the lurgy is back. There seems to have been a lot about. Maybe we all need to embrace some of these tactics: https://www.uphillathlete.com/avoid-sick-illness-training-healthy/ (although side effects may include development of OCD!) Re: goals, I think maintenance of current performance is a totally legit goal, with nothing more specific required.

the sheep: hope your daughter has mended -I'm always amazed that swimmers don't do that all the time! Good mileage in the second half of the week. I'd never heard of the National Forest Way but it sounds fab! You tempted to put an ultra on the to-do list?

mattrm: good work with the % days on. It's a cool approach, as it doesn't really leave anywhere to hide. That being said, I've found stuff like that a bit disheartening as if you fall off the wagon early in the process it can be hard to get the numbers back up to target. My tip would be if you are having a good week, with work/kids/life behaving themselves, try and bank extra sessions so that when you have the inevitable crappy weeks you've already got a bit of a buffer so the numbers don't fall off in a depressing way!

alexm198: so what's the leg feedback on inclined treadmill compared to stairmaster? notice much difference? Good question about maintaining a peak between your two big objectives. I would think that 8+ weeks is quite long to try and maintain the level that you will have reached by July... you will likely either see a big detraining effect, or run in to chronic exhaustion. However, 8 weeks is long enough that you have time to take a rest week, an easy maintenance week and then put in a few weeks of solid aerobic and strength base training to make a second peak. With the second trip being less techy, you don't need to be so specific with the training between trips and can just concentrate on rebuilding that high level of general fitness. 

Tyler: sorry to hear the aches and pains were a limiting factor last week. At the risk of asking the annoyingly obvious question, have you explored all treatment options with doctor/physio/shaman? Do not give up and get a road bike. Road cycling is the path to the dark side.

Bones: the Vitamin D chat sounds pretty irritating! I'd have more respect if the Doc was a bit more honest "sorry Bones, I'm not that interested in your neck and it's nearly my coffee break, so come back another day" rather than blatantly fobbing you off! Looks like those STGs are practically in the bag... any ticks to report?

Silverback38: hit us with your goals!

MIA: Ally, climb that pitch, grubes, Rebecca Ting, cyan.

Post edited at 11:45
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Powderpuff on 17 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> Powerpuff: sorry to hear the lurgy is back. There seems to have been a lot about. Maybe we all need to embrace some of these tactics: https://www.uphillathlete.com/avoid-sick-illness-training-healthy/ (although side effects may include development of OCD!) Re: goals, I think maintenance of current performance is a totally legit goal, with nothing more specific required.

Hi Tom,

Enjoyed reading the link, thanks. Ive already been watching my diet and alcohol intake for this reason.

Monday: easy climbing at the wall up to v3 on the bouldering wall and then climbed a few easy routes on the auto belay. Trying to get the flow back by climbing more moves. Finished with theraband for shoulders.

Thursday: climbed three v4 problems and then worked a v5....God I'm weak after back to back illnesses but I'm very motivated to train . 3 sets of 20 reps on press ups and sit ups. 3 sets of 10 eccentric wrist curls and leg raises 

Sunday:max fingeboard session first thing. I'll try and fit in some exercises later on similar to Thursday. 

Better week this week. Still need to get that bike to shift some of the weight though.

Pull hard this week people!

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AJM - on 17 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> AJM: glad to hear the van is healthy again! How was Font? Did you manage to avoid the worst of the weather? Good goals, with some nice variety. What will need most work? Will it largely be training by climbing?

Hey Tom, thanks as ever. Font was basically a chill out holiday. I've been on-off ill throughout, never horrendously but just an ongoing hacking cough and occasional further grottiness which wasn't really conducive to climbing hard. I decided by about Tuesday to just take it as an opportunity to chill out and kick back a bit, and that went pretty well, a nice week with friends and the family. Home today, on the ferry now. 

Looking forwards, none of my goals were in Font anyway so it's time to start looking at the spring/summer and how to get those goals done.

Fit Club 666 goals were:

- Mark of the Beast (or Blue Planet/Privateer);

- E5 (or equivalent);

- sport onsight/“quick tick”;

- some from Colors/Tennessee/Paradise Lost/Bird of Paradise/Return of the Gunfighter

Some general musings on them, in response to your thought provoking question:

- for all of them, I probably need to be fitter. I'm probably strong enough for all of them, but the fitness especially for the onsighting isn't really there yet.

- for all of them, I probably need rock mileage. I've not touched rock much of late

- fall practice would probably also help on all of the onsight objectives. I'll climb more smoothly if falling off isn't such a big deal

A lot of that really is a question of rock mileage, I think. Apart from the first, which is easy indoors.

The hardest objectives will be the ones in the head. Im quite good at redpointing (or bad at onsighting, depending on which you take as your baseline) because I can work out sequences reasonably well and remember them very well. That doesn't help onsight, where I faff more committing to sequences, doubly so on trad. So E5 will probably be hardest, then probably Privateer (I find Swanage DWS scary, and this is soup up 7b+ that's not likely to be overburdened with chalk) and Mark of the Beast (because the bottom is quite close to a reef. The crux I'm not too bothered about even if it is rather high). The logistics of getting enough time on Tennessee in particular are also challenging, but my musings above are about the pure climbing challenge outside logistical considerations...

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AlanLittle - on 17 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Thanks Tom. The rope is looking vividly pink but disturbingly thin.

STG: Get outside some more when the weather improves again. Left leg pistol squat.
MTG (2019): Double digit 7's including Frankenjura 7b+ project 
LTG (2021): Redpoint 8a before I hit 60 

Tired: turned into a bit of an involuntary deload week.

M: Rest day. Stretching, mobility, foam rolling while watching Dawn Wall on Netflix. Much better than I was expecting (the film that is)    
T: Wall, Thalkirchen. Mediocre session, but all mileage is good mileage, right? 
W: 
T: Left hand max hangs plus shoulders, wrist extensors, squats etc between sets while watching the second half of Dawn Wall (I have a sore pulley on the right)
F: 
S: Listened to Mark Twight on the Enormocast. He was talking about barely surviving an epic retreat in a storm on Nanga Parbat; I was cycling to & from the wall (Thalkirchen) to clip bolts on plastic. Self conscious postmodern irony is my middle name.
S: Considered going back to Thalkirchen for some ARCing but forearms are feeling generally battered, tweaked & sore, so thought better of it. Went for a bike ride instead.

Am doing the pistol squat progressions "grease the groove" style - have a box in the living room so I can do sets throughout the day whenever it occurs to me. Seems to be working - should be ready to move up to a bigger box in a week or so.

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Somerset swede basher - on 17 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Thanks Tom, back up to maybe 90% by the end of the week, should be back to normal this week. Plus side is ive lost 1/4 stone! Quality stating by the way, good work.

Mon. First day back at work. Pretty wiped out afterwards so just chilled in the eve.

Tues. Gentle boulder session at the works. 45mins of reasonably continuous probs just up to about 6B+ then 15mins on the circuit board with plenty of rest between laps, grades pretty meaningless now I know the circuits so well but nominally a 7c and 7a+.

Wed. Shoulder theraband exercises, wrist curls etc. All the stuff I should do loads of and generally neglect!

Thurs. Finger board. Started out as repeaters but a toddler wanted to dangle off me at the same time so I binned it at the second set and just had some fun with the boy. Sort of max hangs but more wriggly! 

Fri. Feeling stronger now. Down the wall and got on the woody next to the circuit board. Highlighted the need to work on my 8 to 12 move limit rather than plodding round 30 move circuits! Good session.

Sat. Family trip to awesome walls 4 x 10mins on the auto belay. 7a on the ups and 5+ on the downs.

Sun. 36km on the roadbike

As for goals... I'd like to tick a font 8A this year. Ideally 2 or 3 but I'd take one! I'm not sure what type of goal I'd class that as but it might take me to wk 666! Just need the tor to dry out after all this rain and I'll get stuck in.

Post edited at 20:50
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mattrm - on 17 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

STG - 14st

MTG - Goblin Girl (6b) 6c at Navigation, then WFD

LTG - Definitely bouldering, bearing in mind Trad will be hard for the next few years...

Weight - 14st 8lbs

M - 2.5 mile run

T - 3 mile walk

W - Rest

T -"HiiT"

F - Rest

S - Rest

S - "HiiT"

A good week.  Got the 'HiiT' in.  Got a run in and the a walk.  No climbing, but I'll have to get down the wall next week.  Have a goal for the end of the year.  Non-climbing related, but it's a good one and at the moment fairly motivating.  I've also got a good climbing plan for next year as well.  Probably a bit odd to look at that now, but I've got this year to get my fitness back and then next year to do something fun.

The averages are a funny thing.  I often have a good start to a year, it drops off in the middle and then I finish fairly strong.  Basically I do less of the small stuff in the summer, so it looks worse.  I agree totally about banking some 60/70% months.  As I'm two months behind, I really have to get a good wodge of solid 60+ months otherwise it's all for naught.

I've found it to be a good tracker as previous years when I was fit, I was averaging 50+.  The last few years when I've been ill and un-fit, it's been 18% or less.  Hence the push back to 50%.  It's already working, the push ups are considerably easier now and with much better form.

Jan overall - 41%

Feb overall - 25%

Mar so far - 52%

2019 - 38%

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guy127917 - on 17 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Thanks for statting Tom, you're doing a sterling job.

> guy127917: good work 'listening to your body' on Tues/Weds! -sometimes forcing yourself out can be the wrong thing. Were you pleased with yesterday's trail race? Sounds like you're primed for smashing some classic boulder problems... Time to take the newly carpeted van for a long weekend in Font?

Monday: Easy 7km evening run to keep the legs turning

Tuesday: Easyish 8km lunchtime run

Wave session- felt strong, made progress on LH green, I think I've now done all the moves... links required. Progress on RH pink also, can sort of cheat do the crux move using a smear on the side wall now. Put effort in on RH grey crimp dyno but still feels nails. (obviously these notes are not supposed to make sense to anyone else!)

Wednesday:  FB session- got 33mm 10s one arm hangs down to -8.75kg which is a pb for me (previous was -10 last year). That's quite surprising given the low commitment level I have shown on the FB in the last few weeks, the combo of 1 FB and 1 limit bouldering session is obviously working. Also found out I can deadhang the 12mm edge for 10s but 10mm just feels ridiculous.

Thursday: Rest

Friday: Rest

Saturday: Endurance life Sussex Half marathon. Did 1:51, 37 out of 407 runners. Was really enjoyable and was happy with result but very hard work due to high wind. I didn't train in any focussed way for this event so didn't have specific expectations of times/positions. 

Sunday: Sore legs Was intending to do a routes session but needed to make a visit to see my Dad who has some health issues. 

Will wait and see how Brexit pans out before planning a trip to France! To be honest I'm just as psyched for peak and welsh boulder problems right now. This week I am to just get 3 runs and 3 climbs in but it depends a bit on how things pan out with my father.

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Tom Green on 18 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

A good week. Made the call that, unless there are some standout late season conditions, the focus is shifting away from winter and I'm starting my Q2 a week or so early. Q1 was a bit mediocre, but probably to be expected after a pretty slothful Q4 last year. The end goal for this training cycle is longish alpine rock routes, so the process between now and then is to work on aerobic fitness and climbing strength and technique. Hopefully the intermediate goals will be good progressions toward this.

Week 11:

Thanks to some good Fit Club tips, this has been the start of my specific training for rock. There's probably still some work needed to refine my plan, but I'm more motivated to train than I've been for a while.

M: Indoor climbing at boardroom. Limit bouldering + ARC session.

T: Rest

W: Core + General Strength. Good progressions -getting back to where I was last summer.

T: Trail Run. 7km, avg 5:45/km. Flat, non-techy. Felt easy with no return of hip pain.

F: Indoor Climbing. Max hangs, AnCap bouldering (6 sets, 3 reps), AeroCap.

S: Trail Run: 10.7km, avg 6:05/km. 295m vert, moderately techy.

S: Shoulder prehab (had planned max strength session, but felt a bit overcooked).

Week 12 Plan:

150min Z1

2 Core Sessions

2 Strength Sessions

2 Climbing Sessions

STG/Q2:

Lancs Aretes (666 goal)

Average 300m vert running per week

Bowland run/climbathon

Welsh 3000s

MTG/Q3:

Cuillin ridge traverse

Lancs aretes (666 goal)

Average 300m vert running per week

Some of: Salbit Westgrat, Piz Badile Cassin, Grand Montets ridge, Innominata, Cordier Pillar, etc...

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Lornajkelly - on 18 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> Lornajkelly: good work getting three good sessions in to a challenging week. Canal tow-paths are ace for getting running mileage back up -such a good surface for getting joints back used to the abuse! Did this week see that pre-Germany 6a tick?

Thanks Tom,

Yeah I think I've got a good idea for the main trigger for my migraines.  I've upped my prophylaxis dose but if I'm right then I should have a lot fewer going forward.

Pretty good week for training:

M:  Rest

Tu:  Couch to 5k week 4

W:  Rest

Th:  Really hard session at the wall!  Was not a strong day - I struggled on something I'd managed before but I still really pushed myself.  I tried to keep it all vertical which is probably why I tired super quickly but I managed most of about 4 vertical 6as before switching to the easier route on the line to finish (rather than give up and lower off - I've set myself a challenge to climb the height of K2 in whatever time frame it takes so the mileage is needed).  A 6a lead isn't going to happen before Germany but my original goal was any 6a so I've already hit that.

F:  Migraine (uh oh) and some stress that it was the start of another 2 week cluster, so nothing achieved.

Sa:  Couch to 5k week 4 (postponed from Friday)

Su:  Couch to 5k week 4 - this felt better than any run has been recently, so I'll press on to week 5 next week.

(New) STG:  Lead 6a indoors by Easter

MTG (2019):  5 outdoor VS leads

LTG (2021):  Comes The Dervish before my 35th birthday.

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planetmarshall on 18 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> Planetmarshall: top work with the Alpine Combine gains. You must be chuffed with that progress. It certainly bodes well for those long steep Pabbay pitches! You mention choosing wide grip pull-ups as better for your shoulders... are the shoulders niggly at the moment? What prehab do you do other than the large muscle group antagonists?

Yeah thanks, it's always pleasing how quickly the strength comes back after a bit of training. I've some way to go before reaching my high point of 14 consecutive pullups, though...and I won't be doing any leg strength work for some months.

I have long-standing shoulder problems from a Bankart repair that was done about 10 years ago to stabilize it after it kept dislocating. The repair was successful but I've been weak on that side ever since, so the wide pullups are good for strengthening the support muscles. Another good exercise is the Turkish Getup but that's hard with the leg.

I sketched out a rough plan for training between now and my Pabbay trip at the end of June.

Last week's goals:

Continue strength and conditioning and leg rehab. Increase load on some exercises, and continue with the wide grip pullups - I think these are better for my shoulders. Maybe add a dumbell shoulder press. Another short wall session.

Done, though I didn't add any dumbell work. May do that this week.

A bit of a light week, though I increased volume on the Strength and Conditioning exercises.

Tue - Strength and Conditioning
Core - 2 Sets
Weighted crunch, Knees to elbows, Hindu pushup, Plank
Max Hangs (BW-5kg)
Main - 3 Sets
Wide Pullups (BW-15kg), Raised Pressup, Ring Dips

Sat - Strength and Conditioning. As above

Sun - AW Sheffield. 6 easy routes, managed 1 lead on massive overhanging jugs. Still using rainbow for feet.

STG - Crack on with the Strength and Conditioning work. Maybe add a 3rd session? Try to get a 3rd Max Hang session in at least. Try and get 2 sessions in at the wall. Leg rehab

MTG - Complete 3 more weeks basic fitness/transition before moving onto more specific strength work. Leg rehab

LTG - Pabbay end June.

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the sheep - on 18 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> the sheep: hope your daughter has mended -I'm always amazed that swimmers don't do that all the time! Good mileage in the second half of the week. I'd never heard of the National Forest Way but it sounds fab! You tempted to put an ultra on the to-do list?

Cheers Tom, daughter is fine and back swimming again. I suspect given the discomfort she was in its something swimmers only do the once!

The National Forrest Way was lovely and we plan to do some more sections before the main event. Ultra wise there isnt anything on the cards, however the Saltmarsh 75 looks like an amazing one and im really tempted for next year. There is a half marathon in October that does part of the route so the wife and I are going to do that and see how we like it  

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FppSFsKz4o

Had  a good solid week gone by

Monday, 2km lunchtime swim an 5km evening run

Tuesday, easy weights set then 2km lunchtime swim and a 16km cycle home in the evening

Wednesday, tougher weights set and 2km lunchtime swim, 7km evening run

Thursday, 2km lunchtime swim and stretch class, 5k run in the evening helping with the clubs couch to 5k group

Friday, Weights and 2km lunchtime swim

Saturday, rest, beer and watching rugby 

Sunday, somewhat hungover 20km run in very windy conditions.

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Ardo - on 18 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Thanks for stat-ting Tom. Walking mileage increased when I had back issues and couldn't train properly. It's become a habit now and I try to use it as mindful/decompression time. Correct re weather and indoor sessions, though food and alcohol intake killed any potential gains!

Mo:    Country walking, 10.9 miles.

Tu:    General walking, 7.7 miles. 10 probs; MH, (4*12/180); IDH, (5*4*10:10/90); 6 probs, (up to v5).

We:    General walking, 7.2 miles.

Th:    General walking, 11.3 miles.

Fr:    General walking, 10.4 miles.

Sa:    General walking, 7.3 miles. 12 probs; MH, (4*12/180); IDH, (3*4*10:10/60), ARC: 10' on/10' off * 2

Su:    General walking, 8.9 miles.

Weight: 10st 4lb/bf 15.5%

Good sessions on Tuesday and Saturday. Plenty of walking during week, but a lump of this involved walking to/from the curry house/pub for pal's birthday celebrations, which spread over two nights. This has had a noticeable effect on weight and bf! No outdoor due to weather.

Next week, look to refine training plan for some increase ARC, maybe some recruitment and get some outdoor climbing.

STGs, (Jan-Mar)
• weight target 10st 0lb/bf 14.5% (started at 10st 3lb/15.1% 1/1/18)
• e2 trad leads ✓
• lead 7a indoor

• start 7a project outdoor

MTGs, (Apr-Jun)
- weight target 9st 10.5lb/bf 14% (started at 10st 3lb/15.1% 1/1/18)
- e3 trad leads
- lead 7b indoor, 7a outdoor

666 goals: Satanismo En El Alpinismo & Invocando de Onan

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alexm198 - on 18 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Hey Tom, thanks for doing the stats again. As others have said, you're doing a stellar job. And thanks to everyone for weighing in on fingerboards, ARCing when you're a total pedestrian, and multiple peaks in a training cycle.

> alexm198: so what's the leg feedback on inclined treadmill compared to stairmaster? notice much difference? Good question about maintaining a peak between your two big objectives. I would think that 8+ weeks is quite long to try and maintain the level that you will have reached by July... you will likely either see a big detraining effect, or run in to chronic exhaustion. However, 8 weeks is long enough that you have time to take a rest week, an easy maintenance week and then put in a few weeks of solid aerobic and strength base training to make a second peak. With the second trip being less techy, you don't need to be so specific with the training between trips and can just concentrate on rebuilding that high level of general fitness. 

Leg feedback is that inclined treadmill is easier than stairmaster. It's just less steep, I guess. Standard treadmills only go up to 15% slope which is about 9° so difficult to get a good quad burn. However, one advantage is that it's really nice and easy to stay in Z1. And when there are only 4 stair machines in a busy gym, I can see it being a necessary evil occasionally.

I spent a lot of the last week poring over the relevant sections of TFTNA and doing some other research online about how to cope with a prolonged peak period, and what I've taken away is exactly what you've said. There is long enough between them that I can take a week of hardcore rest, then put in a short 4 week cycle of aerobic and strength training to (hopefully) have another peak for the second trip. And yes, definitely a good job that the more technical trip is the first of the two!

An OK week for me this week, though towards the end I felt the beginnings of some lurgy which had been going around the office so went into damage limitation mode.

Last Week (Base Week 17/30)

M: 2h Z1 stairmaster. These long indoor Z1 sessions are savagely dull. Watched Dawn Wall which helped stave off the boredom.

T: ME session, done at the wall instead of the gym. In retrospect this isn't a good idea. The temptation to sack it off early and go climbing is too strong, and I ended up subconsciously not putting in max effort on the circuits as I wanted to have some energy left over to climb afterwards. In future will stick to doing these in the weights room. 2 times through the circuit, even though I had intended to do 3. A short but good bouldering session (mainly on slabs for arm reasons) afterwards. 

W: 1h30 Z1 inclined treadmill.

T: Felt the first signs of lurgy during the day at work. Took a load of vitamins, stayed super hydrated and drank cup after cup of ginger tea all day and felt OK by the end of the day. Ummed and ahhed about whether to go to the wall, and decided to risk it. Not the best session, but not the worst either.

F: Still felt a little lurgyish, decided to rest.  

S: Big 3h session at the wall in the morning. Warmed up with 3x7/3 bodyweight repeaters on middle edge (4 fingers, front 3, back 3), 20° slopers, big 2-finger pockets (front 2, middle 2). 30 mins easy bouldering followed by working some of the trickier things that I had tried earlier in the week. Made good progress and ticked two of the problems that had eluded me before. Finished with some time on the circuitboard: 5 laps (120 moves), 10 min off, 4 laps (96 moves), 10 min off, 3 laps (72 moves). Felt really good throughout this whole session which I have taken as a real positive for my endurance (I'd never have been able to sustain 3hrs of significant effort at the wall a year ago) and strength (bouldering harder than I ever have, even if it's only indoors). 1h45 Z1 in the afternoon.

S: Rest. 

Last week's goals:

[Only managed 5h15] 7h Z1 volume

[2/3] 1x ice/mixed muscular endurance workout (3 times through the circuit)

[x] 2x climbing sessions (alternatively, Scotland at the weekend)

Goals:

Good idea about restating 666 goals. Mine were:

  • 1938 Route - this isn't going to happen. Spoke to someone who tried it a couple of weeks ago and it's in terrible shape, with the local guides alleging that it may take a season or two for the snow/ice features to reform properly. Will have a think about suitable replacement goals...
  • Versant Satanique - still on track for this. 

This Week

  • 7h Z1 volume
  • 1x muscular endurance workout (3 times through the circuit)
  • 1x max strength maintenance 
  • 1x 45min Z3 weighted stair workout

STG (End of April 2019)

  • [Rolling average: 5.25] Average 8.5h Z1 across the 7 weeks between now and end of April
  • [Current: 3] Build up to 5 times through the muscular endurance circuit
  • [Current: 0] 2 alpine lines >700m (not necessarily rock)
  • [Current: 0] 1 alpine rock lines >700m >6b in preparation for Bugaboos (might be touch and go with conditions this early)

MTG (End of July 2019)

  • 2 more alpine rock lines >700m >6b in preparation for Bugaboos 
  • All Along the Watchtower (5.12a)
  • Bob Graham round (probably over two days)

LTG (End of September 2019)

  • 6x5000m peaks on the Bezengi wall, Caucasus.
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planetmarshall on 18 Mar 2019
In reply to alexm198:

> 1938 Route - this isn't going to happen. Spoke to someone who tried it a couple of weeks ago and it's in terrible shape, with the local guides alleging that it may take a season or two for the snow/ice features to reform properly.

If you're serious I'd be interested in tackling this in maybe a couple of years time. I'm a long way behind in Alpine experience though, I think the key to the 1938 route other than getting good conditions is having as much technical ability and fitness in hand as possible. I definitely want to do NF of the Dru first.

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alexm198 - on 19 Mar 2019
In reply to planetmarshall:

Awesome! I'll keep in touch about it. But as I say, sounds like it could take a while for it to be a sensible idea again. 

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biscuit - on 19 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Cheers Tom. Quick post from me as it's exam revision time and i'm trying not to get distracted.

Illness stopped play i'm afraid this week so no skiing. Sorted to go out a couple of days early for the Haute Route now and get some more practice in beforehand. So if the weather is kind i'm sure it'll all be good.

Climbing wise I had 3 sessions.

Depot - WBL. Did OK I think. I'll have to see where I end up on this one. Fingers crossed for a 3rd place. 

Autobelay session before coaching. 4 routes, short rest x3. Just doing low sixes. Felt hard

BUK - random boulder. Not feeling very strong, doms in forearms from aero work???

I then got ill that night so at least that explains why I was a bit under par.

Nothing since as I was poorly and now it's all about revision for exam next week and then holiday the day after. Can't wait.

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SFrancis - on 19 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

I haven't seen the deadlifting thread I'll have to check it out. 5 reps 2xBW seems to be the benchmark I'm aiming for, although this is unlikely to be achieved until later in the year.

Still in two minds, Sudgrat has been high on the agenda for a few years, so we may end up going for this, and then decide if we fancy the West ridge. Possibly do the Sudgrat and then head
over to do Motorhead. The final goals will probably depend on how fit we are feeling at the time, and if I manage to get enough big days in with my partner before we go.

No binge drinking at least, had 1 or 2 beers fri-sun evenings.

Week 11/03-17/03

M: EH Strength workout. 8 boulders, 8 Boulders, FB max hang 7-53 x 3 1/2 crimp (99.6kg), 2 x open3 (99.6kg), still feel I could go higher on the 1/2 crimp. 6 x med rung campus ladders, 3 Laps of Wideboyz crack currently full height of the wall really enjoyed this (Fists into perfect hands into thin hands) Fist and perfect hands - easy, thin hands where i can't jam but cant fingerlock felt impossible, 3x3 94kg pull ups.

T: Gym session - 3 x 5reps - 60kg bench, 3 x 3reps 110kg deadlift, 2 x 12reps 30kg overhead press.

W: 30min run

T: EH Strength workout - 4 max problems / 4 limit boulders, 3 x 7-53 1/2 crimp (99.9 kg, thought I had increased a kg but due to weight loss was below 100kg), 1 x open3(99.9kg, tired), 6 x med rungs campus ladders, 3x3 weighted pull (94kg). Hanging leg raises 2x 10. 2 Laps of wideboyz crack still finding thin hands hard, went home and watched episode 8 of "Wideboyz crack school", take home was for thin hands go thumbs down and squeeze thumb in.

F: Planned rest, but decided to do a light recovery aerocap 2 x10mins ARC on, then persuaded an acquaintance to try the crack.  2 laps of Wideboyz crack felt very easy to the thin hands bit and then focused on thumbs down for the thin hands crux at the top, and it worked, I cruised it to the top! Massive smile. 30 min run to finish off.

S: Rest - felt knackered.

S: Chanced weather forecast and headed to Portland. Stunning day, too hot if anything. Headed to Road rage area, abseiled in warmed up on "Cruise control" felt a bit too easy for a warm up, then decided cont. "warming up" on "No Turn Unstoned", missing hand holds as it was completely clean, messing up sequences, found it tough, and very sustained. Poor rock reading / difficult style for someone with no PE, Meant what i was hoping would be a warm up turned into the target for the day. Sorted out a sequence and then waves picked up and made it a bit greasy so that was the end. Disappointing, but it was a stunning day and a really good route. I think the amount of training I've been doing really took its toll here, so its hard to be too annoyed. Road rage looked very good, definitely will be back after some PE training and a bit of rest.

Goals 18/03-24/03

Last week focusing on strength before starting to be more strength endurance focused. In the process of getting a lattice assessment booked for 3 weeks time which will be interesting, should provide some areas of focus for the next training cycle.

*Hoping to get out to the peak at the weekend for some trad, if not may end up back on Portland.
*1 x EH Workout (2 if weekend gets cancelled, otherwise I'll do a 1/2 a session)
*1 x gym session
*2 x run
*Few laps the wideboyz crack before it goes.
*Continue with diet / sleep focus. Experimenting with skipping breakfast.

I've got a question for the fitclub runners, should I be increasing the length of my 30min runs or should I be aiming for more than two times per week if I want to improve my fitness? I am doing enough for maintenance but not really seeing much improvement. 

Post edited at 10:15
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guy127917 - on 19 Mar 2019
In reply to SFrancis:

To answer your running question- it depends

By fitness I assume you mean general stamina/endurance for long days etc, rather than specifically running further or faster?

What is 30 minutes your current "default" duration? By which I mean is that a comfortable maximum duration for you, is it easy to schedule etc? What kind of effort level do you usually run at? (10 max effort, 1 a walk). 

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SFrancis - on 19 Mar 2019
In reply to guy127917:

Your right my primary goal is for increasing my general stamina/endurance for long days, whilst using how I feel on my usual 30 min run as a metric. I am assuming if I feel fitter on a normal run then that will equate to more general endurance.

30 mins is easy to schedule in, and a comfortable distance of around~6k, but mainly because its habit to run the same track. Effort wise I usually run at around 6/7, I am not able to hold a conversation, but not far off it. Would be happy to increase distance/time or intensity with in reason if it would yield more returns.

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guy127917 - on 19 Mar 2019
In reply to SFrancis:

In general as you run the same route more and more you will feel better because you get more efficient at running and well adapted to the specific demand of that energy system. Definitely try and mix up the distances and paces to keep your body guessing and adapting. Habits are good though because they make getting boring stuff done easier, so you want to strike a balance. 

Based on what you have said I would suggest just trying to add 5-15 minutes to your runs each week for 4 weeks, then dropping it back down a bit and adding an additional run in for the next few weeks. Alternatively try doing one longer run (still gradually build it up though) and actively try to keep the intensity nice and easy.

For me personally adding more runs in the week has the added benefit of building mental discipline and keeping my diet in check, but other people can find the opposite effect so your mileage may vary

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planetmarshall on 19 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Looks like I'm going to be working in Oxford for the next six months or so. Any fitclubbers in the vicinity? I seem to recall there might've been a couple.

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Tom Green on 20 Mar 2019
In reply to SFrancis:

Firstly, throwing a big caveat out there... I’m no pro runner!!

However, my running was/is geared up to improve fitness for big approaches, help with long days climbing and relatively large amounts of ascent. 

Leading up to my main mountaineering trip last year I followed the TFTNA plan of building a fitness base by large volumes of low intensity running. This started as 120mins of Z1 per week, split over three sessions (1 x 50%, 2 x 25%) and built up to 350mins Z1 per week over a 24 week period.

This worked amazingly well for getting me ‘mountain fit’ -I’ve never felt so comfortable load carrying/steep approaches/hardish climbing at altitude. However, there were two downsides! Firstly, the training was a massive time commitment. Secondly, it RUINED my running speed. 

So, to summarise my waffling, I think if you are trying to get fit for big mountain days, you will need to increase the total weekly time running, but drop the intensity. This could be two longish runs or one long and a few shorter runs, but ultimately the total time will be more than you are doing at the moment and at least one of the runs needs to be long duration. But if you are wanting to get fit for running objectives as well as ‘mountain fit’ you’ll have to keep some fast work in there otherwise you’ll soon lose your pace. And then you start running out of hours in the week!!

Maybe the first step is distilling down exactly what you want the end result to be. 

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Cyan - on 20 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Hi Tom, thanks for stats.

It's been a bit of a frustrating few weeks, I've been having some unpredictable muscle spasm problems with my back - sometimes it's totally fine and sometimes it's really not. Everyone has been nagging me to see a physio and if it's still bad by payday next week I intend to! Also currently cold-y and feeling quite burnt out.  

Mon: Rest.

Tues: Wall.  Boulder up to V4, good chunk of session struggling on 45 degree.  Back fine?!

Wedns: Rest.

Thurs: Wall. Similar to Tuesday.

Fri: Rest.

Sat: Yoga. Felt fine at the time but back seized up again afterwards.

Sun: Long beach walk which set my back off again.

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alexm198 - on 20 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Out of interest Tom, did you stick to that 3/week structure all the way through? So by the end were you doing 1x180min run, and 2x90min run?

I've been trying to spread my Z1 work more thinly but now that I think about it, doing fewer sessions but making them longer is probably a good way to time manage. I find I am seriously running out of hours in the week at this stage.

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Tom Green on 20 Mar 2019
In reply to alexm198:

Kinda!

The longer the sessions grew the less of them I did... So my transition block I averaged 2.7 x Z1 per week. The max strength block I dropped to an average of 2.0 per week (but I was cramming in some Z3 days too... don’t know why!) then stayed at 2.1 per week through the ME phase  (although those averages include the odd low volume lurgy week in each phase).

With regards weekly volume, in the transition phase I hit target 66% of weeks (and near misses most of the others), 70% in max strength phase (and close enough in most of the fail weeks) and 60% of endurance weeks (the rest were hit and miss... some close, some miles short of target!)

So I tended towards spreading target volume between two long sessions per week. It worked pretty well, but I don’t know whether it would have been better still split three ways?

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Tom Green on 20 Mar 2019
In reply to alexm198:

Guy is probably the best person to quiz. He has an encyclopaedic knowledge of TFTNA!

Guy: what did you do when you were TFTNA-ing for your Kyrg trip?

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AJM - on 20 Mar 2019
In reply to Cyan:

Sounds rubbish, hope you manage to get over it soon! Climbing once you do?

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alexm198 - on 20 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Interesting, cheers. I'll wait to hear Guy's two cents but I think I'll try condensing some of my Z1 into fewer and longer sessions. Academic right now as I'm battling the lurgy, but should help free up time for other stuff (e.g. wall sessions). 

> I was cramming in some Z3 days too... don’t know why!

I think you were right to do this. The analogy that's always chucked around on UA is that Z1 is the grains of the fitness sandcastle, and Z3 is the water binding it together. Make of that what you will!

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guy127917 - on 20 Mar 2019
In reply to alexm198:

Haha I hate that sandcastle metaphor they used, IMO it's harder to understand than the core concepts of training. I can't remember if it was Mark Twight in Extreme Alpinism on TFTNA but he says somewhere that 'running for an hour on the flat isn't going to do a whole lot' and I like to keep that in mind even though it's not the whole story. I haven't read TFTNA this year so may be a little rusty Tom ;)

I think we all agree we're not talking about training to be runners so being able to complete longer runs isn't the goal. Further, this phase of training isn't really about the massive 24 hour workload either, it's about building your endurance up so you can deal with a high workload in TRAINING. The end result is be able to sharpen your body with a very high load in a short period close to your objective. I think TFTNA says that most of your climbing fitness will come in that last period as well. I included ARC time as Z1 time last year, including 1:1 rest time like 15 minutes on/15 off IIRC, and felt that was reasonable.

From personal experience I definitely don't think that 3 one hour runs are equivalent of one 3 hour run- either from a mental or physiological perspective. That said, I'm not sure one is better than the other- the long run stresses your system a lot on a single day, will require more recovery and probably impact your strength training more. Regular short runs can allow you to build overall load without necessarily impacting other training as much. For me, adding a 45 minute - 1 hour run into a training day adds general training load to to my schedule without removing anything, because I can do it at lunch when it's hard to get other training in. 

As you get toward the end of the base phase I don't think there is any escaping that your life is going to be brutally full of z1 cardio. What is the max hours per week in your plan? 

From a scheduling vs life perspective, I think a good tool TFTNA gives you is the progressive schedule- increasing load for 3 weeks and then dropping it down for a recovery week. I just tried to cram as much social stuff in on the lower load weeks as possible. Maybe find someone who doesn't mind talking on the phone whilst you are running... keeps you at conversational pace. 

My biggest week was essentially:

5 x 45 minutes run (lunch)

1 long run 3 hours (sat)

1 long run 2 hours (sun)

2 x 1 hour stairmaster (mornings)

2 x 1 hour ARC (2 evenings)

2 max strength (2 evenings)

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SFrancis - on 21 Mar 2019
In reply to guy127917, Tom Green:

Cheers for the replies. The only real running objectives I had were to be used as a metric for how I would be able to cope on long days.

Guy, I think your suggestion of adding 5-15mins is a good idea with the possibility of adding a longer run as the weather improves and I can get out easily in to the local hills.

Tom, that is a seriously impressive amount of mileage, and not something I think I will be able to achieve. I could possibly incorporate a cycle commute to really increase my endurance training time and possibly reading all this Z1 talk. Maybe i should buy a heart rate monitor.

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Tom Green on 21 Mar 2019
In reply to SFrancis:

With the Z1,2,3,etc I decided quite early on that I was going to settle for 'ball-park' measures rather than go down the heart rate monitor route. 

I used breathing to categorise my effort and, from what I've read, this gives a reasonably consistent measure. Basically, if you can comfortably nose-breathe you are below your aerobic threshold, which equates to Z1-2. If you need to breathe through your mouth but can still speak a sentence in one breath then you are between your aerobic and anaerobic thresholds (Z3-low Z4). Above your anaerobic threshold is sprinting style exercise -stuff you can't do for more than a minute or two.

Practically speaking, I use the nose breathing to stay in Z1-2 and refine this further by gauging whether I can easily chat (Z1) or not (Z2). 

The advantage of this compared to HR monitoring is that it 'auto-calibrates' to your fitness so, despite seeming a bit rough and ready, is actually really accurate. You don't need to periodically do max heart rate tests, or rely on formulae that are fairly unreliable, to work out your heart rate zones. And you don't need to fork out a load of dollar for a posh HR monitor! For me, it's also good as I would probably obsess over the detail if I had a HR monitor, so it keeps me from wasting my life looking at numbers that aren't that relevant anyway!

Useful info here: http://www.uphillathlete.com/breath-intensity-monitoring-part-one/ 

P.S. My mileage was nothing compared to Guy's last year -I have literally no idea how he managed it!

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SFrancis - on 21 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

After I posted I read his last post, outrageous.

Thanks for the article, I didn't like the idea of wearing anything else whilst running, not to mention buying more kit, so the breathing method sounds bang on.

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AlanLittle - on 21 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

As a hayfever sufferer who is prone to sinus infections, I have maybe three or four months a year in which nose breathing at anything above walking pace is even remotely feasible.

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guy127917 - on 21 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

You're the one who did an ultra for fun

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Ardo - on 21 Mar 2019
In reply to AlanLittle:

Deviated septum kills my nose breathing, but has the advantage that snorting cocaine is not even worth trying! ;-)

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Tom Green on 21 Mar 2019
In reply to guy127917:

Fun... yeah, maybe!

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Bones [:B - on 21 Mar 2019

Hey Tom, great post. Feeling motivated.

> Bones: the Vitamin D chat sounds pretty irritating! I'd have more respect if the Doc was a bit more honest "sorry Bones, I'm not that interested in your neck and it's nearly my coffee break, so come back another day" rather than blatantly fobbing you off! Looks like those STGs are practically in the bag... any ticks to report?

It was very annoying but I went to my osteo with my MRI results this week and he has recommended some exercises for me. Looks like the vertebrae in my neck curve the wrong way which can cause all sorts of issues such as pain, stiffness, spasms etc. I don't know if that is how it has always been and that is why I have had neck problems from an early age or if that is a more recent thing but got some exercises to do to correct it. Will do them daily for at least a month or two and see how I get on. The info/exercise is on youtube if anyone is interested:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8baXHPjYeg&feature=youtu.be

Mon: Morning gym - weighted front squats sets of 5 up to 50kg. Stuck at 45kg for most of them to work on my technique as I am mainly putting my weight over on my right and pushing with that leg. 12kg clean and press and 24kg kettle squats.

Tues: Meant to climb but ended up working. So rest day.

Weds: Morning gym - single leg squats to the level of the higher bench, skin the cats, 1/2 skin the cats to horizontal. Improvements on front lever strength.
Evening bouldering on the wave. Seem to have lost a move on the pink. I have found it hard the last three sessions. Will do another session next week. Currently got 4 moves in sequence.

Thurs: rest

Fri: rest

Sat: rest

Sun: boulder session, trying new routes in the pen. Quite a tricky grey on there and strong v5/v6 that I almost got. I almost didn't go as I felt tired but it was a good, slow session.

STG:
Power: Complete a wave route and 1, 2, 5 campus on each arm -  no progress. Pink wave, got 4 moves
10 pull-ups - got 9 this week. Pretty sure I can get 10 soon.

666 goal:
front lever - progress made this week. Able to get further on the skin the cat moves on the rings.

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ianstevens - on 21:49 Fri
In reply to Tom Green:

Cheers for the stats as always Tom. To be honest, my running has got zero structure to it at the minute as I’m focussed a little more on climbing goals now, before races later in the season. As such I generally do whatever the club training session dictates - but in the past have found lots of long and slow makes you good at exactly that. I suspect that’s why my park run times are at the quicker end of the scale - i’ve been doing intervals rather than longer stuff.

Changed STG 3 as I’m going to do zero structured training whilst away, going to have a break from the regimented plan and just have fun.

Did go to the comp as the weather was horrific - info below...

Goals

STG: 1) Max hangs on the AA slot to 96kg total by 30/03; 2) 7 x 7a routes by 31/04; 3) Complete planned sessions to end of March (18/18 so far); 4) Feel like I've run well at Nant yr Arain and Lake Hayes trail halfs (23/3 and 19/4); 5) Weight to 70.5kg by 01/05 (current 72.3).

MTGs: 1) 100kg on the AA slot by 01/06; 2) Parkrun PB by 01/06; 3) Cadair Fell Race PB (currently 1:44:08); 4) Find a 7c project for the summer (Orme or Quarries probably).

LTG: 1) Do the project (see MTGs); 2) Under 7.5 hours in Snowdon Skyline (Sept).

Last Week (2019.11)

Mon: Climbing, boulders <7A and circuits <6c

Tues: 1) Yoga; 2) 90% Hangs x 2 - aborted as fingers felt bad; 3) Turbo (race - NP248W) 25km, 396m 

Weds: 1) Yoga; 2) 90% hangs x 6 @ 85.3kg; 3) short indoor climb (still a little tired)

Thurs: 1) Yoga; 2) Run - 4/5/6/5/4 min efforts @ 3:32/3:45/3:54/3:46/3:43 min/km, 15.2km, 164m

Fri: 1) Yoga; 2) 90% Hangs x 6 @ 85.5kg; 3) Strength: shoulder shrugs 3x5, pull ups +2.5kg 5x5, dips 3x6, TRX IYT 3x10

Sat: Indy Comp - managed 44/78 problems, solid 4 hours of bouldering. Wrecked after, but managed 8th so pretty chuffed. Felt like I climbed well too.

Sun: 1) Yoga; 2) Crimpd static holds and floor core (bit tired of course!)

Next week:

Bit of travel and a race (trail half) so could be tricky to get all the sessions in. Will try hard though!

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Tyler - on 22:01 Fri
In reply to Tom Green:

> sorry to hear the aches and pains were a limiting factor last week. At the risk of asking the annoyingly obvious question, have you explored all treatment options with doctor/physio/shaman?

Cheers Tom, unfortunately I think the aches will be limiting for a while yet. I've tried different treatments  (not shaman to be fair but not sure my work's medical insurance covers that!) but really it comes down to whether I get a hip renewal or not and there's no cut and dried answer for that.

Last week I did nothing other than a couple of trips to house of pain, Pete has kindly added some big holds to the less steep board - he's finally accepted I'm not putting it on and I am actually that weak - I'm looking forward to getting more involved.

Weekend was spent on my annual drinking trip to watch the rugby. I managed some moderation and obviously enjoyed the two results so managed not to feel too rough on Sunday.

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Climbthatpitch - on 05:40 Sun
In reply to Tom Green:

Hi Tom

Sorry for being absent. Got a lot going on at the momment. Will be back to posting normal this week.

M - Indoor climbing

T - 10k run

W - Inddor Climbing

T - Rest

F - Rest

S - 10k  run

S - Rest

Lee

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