UKC

Looking for recommendations of European sport climbing destinations where: a) there are lots of pleasant climbs in the 5s and 6s, and b) the majority of those climbs are bolted so that a 5 ft tall person can reach the clips with a normal quickdraw from the intended clipping stance.

We have found that most sport climbing in San Vito Le Capo fits the bill, which may be why there are tons of kids climbing out there. By contrast we had a lot of problems with reachy bolting in El Chorro. Any other ideas?

In reply to SXPembs:

Kalymnos. Most tightly bolted place I can think of.  Was just put there and a friend of mine who is also 5ft had no complaints.

In reply to SXPembs:

I can recommend a panic draw to extend your reach by up to 10 inches. It can open up a lot more routes to the shorter and slightly nervous climber.

In reply to SXPembs:

A lot of the really new stuff at Leonidio has bolts so close that you are never climbing above the bolt. It can actually get a bit fiddly trying to pull rope out to clip the next bolt when the previous one is still at chest level.

In reply to mountain.martin:

I would second this, it's a nice bit of kit and although I don't own one myself, I use my friends one quite a bit when climbing with him.

In reply to SXPembs:

I was also going to recommend Kaly as the place with the friendliest bolting. I'm a shortie and didn't have any issues there. It was also one of the few trips I've been on where I wasn't climbing with my 6ft partner (who often goes up a route first and hangs the draws) so I was more conscious than usual of it. I seem to recall Chulilla was ok too but there's not a great deal of sub-6 routes. Worst I've experienced is the Verdon, where the easy pitches are sparsely bolted with long run outs and bolts are placed so that the average height person can clip from a big hold just before a hard move... 

In reply to mountain.martin:

panic draw? please call it by it's proper name - A stiffy! especially if extending by 10 inches. (gutter humour sorry).

In reply to SXPembs:

Ulassai Canyon

In reply to PaulJepson:

Good shout. Lovely climbing there too.

I remember the occasional place where the anchor was awkwardly placed for shorter climbers in Kaly (on an overhang above a slab so you had to lean out awkwardly) but only the very odd route and other than that don't recall any major issues. 5'3", and a short one! 

In reply to SXPembs:

Moy Rock, the Riglos of the North. 😀

In reply to Iamgregp:

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it . To clarify, we don't need super frequent bolts, just bolts that are within reach from the intended clipping stance and sufficient for safety. Some routes with bolts every 4m are fine for that.

In reply to henwardian:

Blimey, that does sound like a lot of bolts! I assume the routes are short? Otherwise how would you carry enough drawers? To clarify, we don't need super frequent bolts, just bolts that are within reach from the intended clipping stance and sufficient for safety. Some routes with bolts every 4m are fine for that.

In reply to mountain.martin:

We have a long, stiff drawer. It helps for the occasional reachy clip, but it doesn't resolve the problem in areas where reachy clips are common. I fear that the existence of these drawers encourages bolters to think reachy clips aren't a safety problem. I recently saw a route that was bolted such that a 5 ft 10 inch buddy needed the stiff drawer to clip from the ledge, and thus the bolt is waaaaay out of reach for us shorties.

In reply to DaveHK:

Ooooh, this sounds lovely! Yet another reason to move to Scotland.

In reply to SXPembs:

I think the area where it really stuck in my mind was Yellow Eyes. The grades in the guidebook I had were properly all over the place too - like saying 7b when it was about 6c+, but a few routes over actually being pretty accurate. The pitches there are 20m to 45m, you just take a lot of draws when you start off.

Crickey, if that is your yardstick then almost anywhere will do! I'm cacking myself long before I'm 4m above the last bolt!

In reply to Derry:

We like to call ours the compensator. 

In reply to henwardian:

Depends on the route. My goal is to find sport that is as safe for me as relatively well-protected trad lines. Sometimes a clip I can't reach from the intended stance means risking an ankle-breaking fall onto a ledge or a nasty swing where I'll hit a corner. If I'm really unlucky the bolter has put multiple clips off to the side where I can't quite reach them from anywhere on the climbing line. But I've done much longer runouts on trad than I've ever done on sport, so I personally don't feel the need for very tight bolting if the potential falls would be perfectly safe anyway.

In reply to SXPembs:

Briançon area! Lots of friendly crags, beautiful setting, varied rock and interesting climbing (limestone, quartzite, conglomerate). I toproped/lead about 50/50 there. I'm also a shortie and clipping was almost never the issue, just the climbing! As it should be. Can only think of 2 instances where the reason I didn't lead a climb was specifically because of a reachy clip with dangerous fall potential, both were at le Rocher qui Répond (fun but very polished).

In reply to SXPembs:

Get a big pal to go up first and put long draws in!

In reply to JimR:

My usual climbing partner is my husband, who is 6 ft 1 and very competent but hates leading.  He'd be pretty cross if I made him lead it first and even crosser if I abandoned him as a partner.  So for the sake of marital harmony I'm just going to seek out routes that work when I lead and he seconds .

In reply to SXPembs:

30l rucksack, if you´re planning on having to change the ones you´re wearing after every clip

In reply to SXPembs:

I'm just in my way back from El Chorro, my wife is 5,7 and pretty cautious, had a great time on most of the 4s and 5s she got on. 

In reply to ebdon:

I've had a bunch of problems reaching bolts in multiple areas at El Chorro, so we blacklisted it. Glad it worked out for you, but then your wife is many inches taller than me and presumably has a heck of a lot more reach.

In reply to SXPembs:

Definitely blacklist Verdon, in that case !

In reply to SXPembs:

Sorry to here that, for the benefit of anyone else interested in this thread specifically we found for easier stuff, the bolting around Desplomilandia sometimes wasn't the best but generally around Escalara Arabe, cocina caliante and Serena the bolting was more in a 'Kalymnos' style.

In reply to SXPembs:

isn't the best place to clip right up beside the clip? extending your arm will only make the fall longer if you stuff up the clip.

In reply to mutt:

Depends on the facts, doesn't it? I've given a bunch of examples higher in the thread of where reachy bolting is actively unsafe, not just inconvenient (e.g. ledges). I've never seen anyone standing on a nice ledge with a clip at head height decide to climb up until the clip is it at harness height before using it, but I suppose people have different levels of enthusiasm for breaking their ankles. 

In reply to SXPembs:

i cant believe no one has mentioned Costa Blanca loads of 4 & 5's with easy reach bolts. i.e Sierra de toix, Echo Valley 1.5, Alcalali and Font d'axia to name a few.

In reply to SXPembs:

I think you'll find that bolts are always placed appropriately where there is a ledge to hit. Close bolts might make you  feel safe but real safety comes from clipping next to your harness in pretty much every other situation. Perhaps even embarking on a route where you can break your ankles is is not such a good idea.

In reply to SXPembs:

I am 5'1" and have the longest length Kong panic stick (which we call the Stick of Power). It extends my clipping position by over a foot. I don't leave the ground without it. 

And I completely agree with you that it's not always better to clip from a higher position. If the bolt has been placed to protect a hard sequence you don't want to be clipping mid sequence. 

In reply to Paul Hy:

Thanks for this suggestion! I've been wanting to go to Costa Blanca and am waiting for the next edition of the Rockfax guidebook to come out (because the last is apparently very out of date). Even more excited now

In reply to mutt:

‘Always’ is a very strong choice of words there, given that half a dozen counter examples sprang to mind immediately…

I pretty much always climb with a panic draw - me (5’5, t-t-Rex proportions) and my 5’1 partner found some of the newer sectors in Sella in Costa Blanca quite necky for being able to put the clips in. Currently in Ulassai and so far the bolting seems very thoughtful/non stressful!

In reply to mutt:

A statement involving "always" is often wrong.

I fractured my calcaneus on a route in El Chorro as the bolts definitely were not placed to stop me hitting a ledge.