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hi everyone,
heading off to the alps for the summer and i'm in need of a new pack, enough for a full days climbing and at a squeeze a nights bivy, its got to be light and comfy oh and durable, what to people like?
heading off to the alps for the summer and i'm in need of a new pack, enough for a full days climbing and at a squeeze a nights bivy, its got to be light and comfy oh and durable, what to people like?
In reply to robatkinson: I have a black diamond speed pack and it's FANTASTIC. Very durable, waterproof, comfortable and light. Removable lid and a roll top with buckles that attach to the main straps to make a small summit pack!
Give it a look, really is excellent!
Give it a look, really is excellent!
In reply to robatkinson: Blue Ice 30ltr... stunning attention to detail. My next pack. It's proper thought out by a climber.
In reply to robatkinson: I have recently had a bit of a rethink about Alpine packs. I have always been firmly in the "light is right" camp but a recent purchase of a Deuter Guide 45 has modified my view somewhat. It's a heavier pack but is so comfortable to carry that it actually feels lighter when fully loaded. It also has the benefit of being able to access the contents without having to rummage through the main compartment and I don't get the feeling that I could lose my axes that I get with my OMM Jirishanca. One of the problems with some lightweight packs is that they really cut back on features and the harness can feel flimsy. Another problem with small packs, as I discovered on a recent trip to the alps, is that they need packing more carefully which is not always convenient nor easy. In future I think I will be keeping the lightweight sack for day trips.
Al
Al
In reply to CragRat_Trad:
Agreed. I have the BD Speed 30 and it's far and away the best pack I've ever used. Light., strippable, really comfy to climb with - just an all-round stellar design.
Agreed. I have the BD Speed 30 and it's far and away the best pack I've ever used. Light., strippable, really comfy to climb with - just an all-round stellar design.
In reply to robatkinson: exped mountain pro 40
In reply to robatkinson:
Crux AK37 or AK47(X)depending on what size you want
Crux AK37 or AK47(X)depending on what size you want
In reply to jadias: I'll third the BD speed. Great pack.
In reply to ianstevens: Durability? Good? Compared to a mutant crux?
In reply to robatkinson:
I've got a Black Diamond 26L pack that I used over the summer in the Alps.
Awesome pack, can't remember the model name but it's bright yellow and super-light!
I've got a Black Diamond 26L pack that I used over the summer in the Alps.
Awesome pack, can't remember the model name but it's bright yellow and super-light!
In reply to robatkinson:
think what you want in more detail than just days and bivvys.
it can be safely said that 55L of MAIN PACK space (ie dont include pockets) will cover most scenarios up to about 3 days (after day 2 its really only food that changes).
with so many packs now weighing about 1000gms when stripped, its not hard to get something big that will fit all your stuff INSIDE. even a rope.
this leaves function as your main priority, and being able to chuck everything in fast and not have to repack a jigsaw everytime a function to put high on the list.
wish i had a dollar for everytime someone has wowed me with some fancy daisy loop or gimmicky tool attachment due to its 'function', but then not fitted everything in because the whole pack was too small.
for climbing you wont need a real waist belt. also avoid a lid.
any tool attachments gizmos you cant use with gloves will be a problem.
straps for cinching and in case you need to attach stuff need to be looong.
a back panel is important for carting pointy gear.
after carrying lots of packs for all sorts of reasons i settled on one of MHWs latest (i use the south col, but the diretissima may suit you better).
strippable to 1000gms whilst still retaining real carrying function, its big enough to cram everything into and solid enough to still haul 20kgs properly.
every buckle is glove friendly, the tool attachment things are too, and theres a big dyneema pocket for sharp stuff and to protect against abrasion.
for cinching and securing theres all sorts of strap configurations, even able to remove or tuck away.
take it from someone who guides all winter and has collectively spent about a day waiting while people try and jam too much into a pack, then fiddle about strapping stuff all over the outside, only to be convinced that the 200gms saved on a pack too small was somehow worth it...
think what you want in more detail than just days and bivvys.
it can be safely said that 55L of MAIN PACK space (ie dont include pockets) will cover most scenarios up to about 3 days (after day 2 its really only food that changes).
with so many packs now weighing about 1000gms when stripped, its not hard to get something big that will fit all your stuff INSIDE. even a rope.
this leaves function as your main priority, and being able to chuck everything in fast and not have to repack a jigsaw everytime a function to put high on the list.
wish i had a dollar for everytime someone has wowed me with some fancy daisy loop or gimmicky tool attachment due to its 'function', but then not fitted everything in because the whole pack was too small.
for climbing you wont need a real waist belt. also avoid a lid.
any tool attachments gizmos you cant use with gloves will be a problem.
straps for cinching and in case you need to attach stuff need to be looong.
a back panel is important for carting pointy gear.
after carrying lots of packs for all sorts of reasons i settled on one of MHWs latest (i use the south col, but the diretissima may suit you better).
strippable to 1000gms whilst still retaining real carrying function, its big enough to cram everything into and solid enough to still haul 20kgs properly.
every buckle is glove friendly, the tool attachment things are too, and theres a big dyneema pocket for sharp stuff and to protect against abrasion.
for cinching and securing theres all sorts of strap configurations, even able to remove or tuck away.
take it from someone who guides all winter and has collectively spent about a day waiting while people try and jam too much into a pack, then fiddle about strapping stuff all over the outside, only to be convinced that the 200gms saved on a pack too small was somehow worth it...
In reply to robatkinson:
Mountain hardwear trad 35 litre. Loads of feature's, hard to beat in my eyes.
Then the south col 70 litres. For exped
Mountain hardwear trad 35 litre. Loads of feature's, hard to beat in my eyes.
Then the south col 70 litres. For exped
In reply to jadias:
Serious question to all those recommending such small sacks for summer alpine use. When you are flogging up from the valley on a hot day wearing nothing but a pair of shorts to a bivi before a climb, where are you actuallg going to put all your stuff?
> Agreed. I have the BD Speed 30 and it's far and away the best pack I've ever used.
Serious question to all those recommending such small sacks for summer alpine use. When you are flogging up from the valley on a hot day wearing nothing but a pair of shorts to a bivi before a climb, where are you actuallg going to put all your stuff?
In reply to Robert Durran: I agree. Recommendations without context or further explanation can be misleading. I have a similar problem with many reviews. You read something and start thinking this could be good only to find right at the end words to the affect "This product was excellent on my ramble in the Chilterns."
Al
Al
In reply to robatkinson: POD Black Ice...nothing else matters!
In reply to robatkinson: In my experience, I would recommend two packs ( especially if climbing in Chamonix ).
1x small 20 litre pack - I use an alpkit one, used for one day hits off the top of the midi or for rock routes without a bivi or with a hut approach. I used mine for routes such as the Chere couloir, kuffner and the rebuffat on the midi.
1 x larger pack around 30 litres - I use a blue ice, a larger pack allows space for bivi kit. (Light down bag + a chopped down Z-lite - jetboil and some food) my personal approach is to go as a fast and light as possible and sacrifice a little comfort, so what I carry may be less than others but this method seems to work for me.
Hope that helps.
1x small 20 litre pack - I use an alpkit one, used for one day hits off the top of the midi or for rock routes without a bivi or with a hut approach. I used mine for routes such as the Chere couloir, kuffner and the rebuffat on the midi.
1 x larger pack around 30 litres - I use a blue ice, a larger pack allows space for bivi kit. (Light down bag + a chopped down Z-lite - jetboil and some food) my personal approach is to go as a fast and light as possible and sacrifice a little comfort, so what I carry may be less than others but this method seems to work for me.
Hope that helps.
In reply to efrance24234: nice pack, mine got ripped first time I used it
In reply to Robert Durran:
I've taken my Speed 30 on a 4-5 day winter ice trip. No tent but bivvy gear, most of the food for that time, tools, crampons, harness...
Only things I had on the outside were my helmet, trekking poles (when not using them on the walk in) and foam sleeping pad if I remember correctly.
For summer alpine use over 1-2 days I'd imagine it would be great unless you're carrying way too much!
I've taken my Speed 30 on a 4-5 day winter ice trip. No tent but bivvy gear, most of the food for that time, tools, crampons, harness...
Only things I had on the outside were my helmet, trekking poles (when not using them on the walk in) and foam sleeping pad if I remember correctly.
For summer alpine use over 1-2 days I'd imagine it would be great unless you're carrying way too much!
In reply to robatkinson:
I have a Mountain Hardwear Dihedral, which is 50l and I can only just fit in a rack, plus rope, harness, clothes, water, food.
How the hell do people fit this stuff into 30l sacks?
I have a Mountain Hardwear Dihedral, which is 50l and I can only just fit in a rack, plus rope, harness, clothes, water, food.
How the hell do people fit this stuff into 30l sacks?
In reply to Kid Spatula: They don't. Quite often in the Alps the harness is put on early, the helmet fastens to the outside and the rope hangs over the top of the sack. I've done routes that require a bivi with a 35 litre pack many times.
Al
Al
In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:
Not much fun walking up from the valley on a hot day though, especially when an afernoon thunderstorm shower comes in and all the stuff dangling outside gets soaked. I use a POD black Ice (about 60l and pretty light); everything goes inside and can be accessed ok.
> (In reply to Kid Spatula) They don't. Quite often in the Alps the harness is put on early, the helmet fastens to the outside and the rope hangs over the top of the sack. I've done routes that require a bivi with a 35 litre pack many times.
Not much fun walking up from the valley on a hot day though, especially when an afernoon thunderstorm shower comes in and all the stuff dangling outside gets soaked. I use a POD black Ice (about 60l and pretty light); everything goes inside and can be accessed ok.
In reply to Kid Spatula:
I still use a twenty five+ year old Troll Trolltind sac, which is 40L. Ice axes, crampons, helmet and sleeping mat go on the outside, the rope just loops over the top. More than enough room inside for everything else.
I still use a twenty five+ year old Troll Trolltind sac, which is 40L. Ice axes, crampons, helmet and sleeping mat go on the outside, the rope just loops over the top. More than enough room inside for everything else.
In reply to Robert Durran: I don't disagree but using a small pack does focus your mind on only packing what you need. Modern materials have made the size of the pack much less of an issue these days but you still see lots of Brits carrying packs which are far too big. I would ask the opposite question how do they manage to fill them?
Al
Al
In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:
Only for the weak minded! I prefer to be strong minded and have the user-friendliness of a larger sack.
> (In reply to Robert Durran) I don't disagree but using a small pack does focus your mind on only packing what you need.
Only for the weak minded! I prefer to be strong minded and have the user-friendliness of a larger sack.
In reply to Robert Durran: I think that between us we are proving that there is no "best alpine pack" and that what suits one person does not suit another.
Al
Al
In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:
Ttue, but there does seem to be a an unthinking received orthodoxy on UKC that one should always use the smallest sack you can possibly cram everything into (or indeed not!) and I think the counterargument should also be put forward.
> (In reply to Robert Durran) I think that between us we are proving that there is no "best alpine pack" and that what suits one person does not suit another.
Ttue, but there does seem to be a an unthinking received orthodoxy on UKC that one should always use the smallest sack you can possibly cram everything into (or indeed not!) and I think the counterargument should also be put forward.
In reply to jadias: Another vote for the BD Speed 30. It seems far bigger than 30L. Still light and strippable. I have a POD Black Ice swell, but tend to use that for expel time stuff.
In reply to Robert Durran: Historically Brits have been renowned in the alps for carrying too much so the term "big pack" can be read two different ways. I would stand by the argument that carrying 60 litres worth of gear is too much unless of course it's all air in the form of a sleeping bag or empty space in which case the size of the pack with modern materials is fairly irrelevant. Most Brit packs I've seen in the alps look pretty heavy.
Al
Al
In reply to Robert Durran:get the speed 40 or 55 then!
In reply to robatkinson: I would mention that though the Black Diamond Speed packs are very good, much of their reputation was gained on the previous version. The current version is slightly heavier, but still keeps much of what made them a great packs in the first place.
The Osprey Mutant is a what I currently use, and comes in three back lengths which is handy if you are on the short or tall size. I am looking at moving over to either the Lowe Alpine Alpine Attack 34:45 , as it is only 1150g but should be tough and offer a good carry due to the back system which is where some climbing packs try to save the weight; or the new Arc'teryx Nozone 35 which is even lighter but still looks quite burly.
The Osprey Mutant is a what I currently use, and comes in three back lengths which is handy if you are on the short or tall size. I am looking at moving over to either the Lowe Alpine Alpine Attack 34:45 , as it is only 1150g but should be tough and offer a good carry due to the back system which is where some climbing packs try to save the weight; or the new Arc'teryx Nozone 35 which is even lighter but still looks quite burly.
In reply to robatkinson:
I guess most people will respond with what they use / have knowledge of which means you will get loads of different recommendations. This is good, just means you will have to spend time trying different sacks on in shops. If you can, try them on with a couple of ropes in and your harness on - you may feel a bit silly but it is worth buying the sack that is comfortable for you.
For me, I use Pod Black Ice as it takes all bivvy gear and carries heavier loads comfortably, rather than a squeeze, and can then be stripped down to a much lighter sack for climbing. Tough as old boots. Two packs in one.
I guess most people will respond with what they use / have knowledge of which means you will get loads of different recommendations. This is good, just means you will have to spend time trying different sacks on in shops. If you can, try them on with a couple of ropes in and your harness on - you may feel a bit silly but it is worth buying the sack that is comfortable for you.
For me, I use Pod Black Ice as it takes all bivvy gear and carries heavier loads comfortably, rather than a squeeze, and can then be stripped down to a much lighter sack for climbing. Tough as old boots. Two packs in one.
In reply to CragRat_Trad:
While I agree on the versatility of the BD Speed (got the 40) I'm questioning it's durability. Just one short haul caused several bruises and holes in the rather thin fabric.
While I agree on the versatility of the BD Speed (got the 40) I'm questioning it's durability. Just one short haul caused several bruises and holes in the rather thin fabric.
In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:
I am in the 45-55L camp. Climbing with a full 55L pack sounds excessive but using 55L walking in to huts is reasonable if you are carrying a few days food, particularly if like me you like to wear trainers and put your boots inside your pack.
> (In reply to Robert Durran) Historically Brits have been renowned in the alps for carrying too much so the term "big pack" can be read two different ways. I would stand by the argument that carrying 60 litres worth of gear is
I am in the 45-55L camp. Climbing with a full 55L pack sounds excessive but using 55L walking in to huts is reasonable if you are carrying a few days food, particularly if like me you like to wear trainers and put your boots inside your pack.
In reply to efrance24234: seconding the exped mountain pro 40! epic bag, really well thought through! Ive seen quite a few guides in Switzerland using them!
In reply to robatkinson:
don't really get why trying to save the size of the pack is necessary when the weight comes from what's in it. Get a pack that's comfortable and slightly bigger than you need so you've got some leeway and can just bung everything in in a heap if you get to the top of a route in bad weather and want to get down quick.
Osprey Mutant 38l is mine
don't really get why trying to save the size of the pack is necessary when the weight comes from what's in it. Get a pack that's comfortable and slightly bigger than you need so you've got some leeway and can just bung everything in in a heap if you get to the top of a route in bad weather and want to get down quick.
Osprey Mutant 38l is mine
In reply to robatkinson:
I've used a 30 litre pack for long routes with planned bivis in Jordan but I wouldn't adopt that approach in the Alps.
POD Black Ice (often stripped down for routes) for me, but check build quality on them since they've been taken over.
I've used a 30 litre pack for long routes with planned bivis in Jordan but I wouldn't adopt that approach in the Alps.
POD Black Ice (often stripped down for routes) for me, but check build quality on them since they've been taken over.
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