UKC

According to a report on the bbc website today a recent survey,(forget the group who did it), claims that the average UK citizen debt, (excluding mortgage ), is £3,175 per adult in the UK ..On credit cards etc.....

Supposedly double the EU average...


Phewwww.........bit scary

In reply to Keith Roughley: and loads of ads for it on TV?

credit cards, laughable really, credit=debt.

not being high and mighty about it, it scares me a bit too.

at least if someone pays off all their debts they get a good credit rating...

In reply to Keith Roughley:

i'm a student and i owe that, so no.

i probably will be worried in a couple of years though

In reply to Keith Roughley: Mine's probably about 4 or 5 grand (student loans)

In reply to Keith Roughley: Personally I think £3175 is quite a lot. I hate having more than a couple of hundred quid on mine. Credit card ebt is manageable for most people, as long as they don't keep adding on interest to it.

This is easy to do-keep transferring the balance to cards with 0% on transactions for however many months, and pay off at least the minimum each month. Easy to do, set up the DD, and from time to time save cash to pay into it. Not doing this is just plain daft.

In reply to Keith Roughley: Crikey, £3,175 sounds trivial to me!

In reply to Keith Roughley:

Quite frankly, compared to over a hundred thousand on the mortgage, three and a half thousand is a drop in the ocean.

In reply to Marc C:

OK..But how are you going to pay it off...???

In reply to Keith Roughley: Well, I don't like having debt, but as long as I've got capital to cover it, I aint that bothered - I know I can get rid of it at some point (NB The USA has a massive debt!). Some of us are more reckless with money - and some of us like to speculate to accumulate. If I'd simply tried to save and only spend what I had spare, then I wouldn't have enjoyed myself so much, or amassed capital assets.

In reply to Keith Roughley:

Dear Keith

Not scary to me, I am not in debt.

Norrie

In reply to Norrie Muir:

Don't you owe me a fiver..???

In reply to Keith Roughley:

Well im at £3050 now, and its about to go up by another £1000.

The student dream...

In reply to Keith Roughley: I liked it on the news when the reporter said something like "We spoke to two people who found themselves in trouble". Found themselves? Got themselves, more like it.

In reply to Keith Roughley:

I owe the Student Loans Company approximately £9000, so a touch over £3000 doesn't exactly sound so bad to me right now..

I don't like being in debt much, but that said a Student loan isn't so bad really, I'm currently planning on paying that off sooner than I have to, and I've no interest in having a credit card or such (hey, if it's not my money then I'll end up paying for it anyway.)

I'll see how it goes.

In reply to Chris Harris:

Well, but some people don't realise that debt is actually debt. I know somebody who recently got herself a 10 grand loan and used about 9 grand to pay off other debt and then got all excited that she had a 1000 quid to spend on whatever she wanted. (And there's no student loan or anything like that involved, it's more shopping and car and whatever related)At the same time she was annoyed that she couldn't get a mobile phone contract because of her bad credit rating. As long as she'll get loans to pay off other debts she won't realise that she's in trouble (or probably she won't care).

Maybe it's too easy over here to get credit cards/loans/etc/ (unless your account is well kept, never overdrawn but you've been only in the country for 10 months, then they give you nothing)

In reply to Marc C:

Me too; mine is considerably more than that, due to not having a proper job for a year and a half. It is coming down now though, until we go on holiday next month.

"Another day older and deeper in debt"

At least I don't owe my soul to the company store.

In reply to violentViolet: I don't want to have a go at your mate, but if that was her mindset, why didn't she take out a million pound loan? She'd have been able to retire then.

In reply to Chris Harris: Have as many goes as you like, she's not my mate, but somebody who winds me up endlessly, because despite me not being in debt, I can't go on "retail therapy" (I hate that word, just because of her frequent use of it) once a week.

In reply to whiting.jp:

Student Loans aren't too bad though. The money's taken out of your wage before you get it (unless you're self employed) so I never see it going, my budget is worked out on my "take-home" salary. It only increases by inflation, so is the cheapest loan you'll ever get. They don't dseem to affect your credit rating/mortgage amounts etc.

Why pay it back sooner? If you've got the money invest it. If invested wisely, your capital will increase more than your loan. Job's a good 'un.

In reply to Keith Roughley:

Isn't that amount of debt trivial when you look at the size of the average mortgage nowadays...?

I have a mortgage of around £90k, and therefore consider myself £90k in debt...

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

No, it's easier if you use your credit card, as I do, as merely another way of accessing your current account rather than a form of borrowing. WhateverI spend on my Credit card I pay off at the end of the month. I have a card that gives me airmiles so when I get petrol at a Shell garage(usually always)I get double airmiles, one lot via my CC and another lot through Shell Points.

few debt related news items:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/13092006/325/homeowners-struggle-meet-mortgage-pay...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4976180.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5387502.stm
and i get called a doom monger for suggesting all is not well in the economy. at the end of the day 700 billion odd consumer level debt racked up in the last 10 years has had a strong impact on growth of economy but as with all debt funding spending has to be paid back or written off.

In reply to 1234None:

There are 2 factors which are worrying. The first is that this headline was about unsecured debt (so if the bubble bursts it will not be recoverable) and the second is that it is an average. If you take out children and babies (who are unlikely to be in debt), and the large number of adults who are not in debt, particularly the elderly who seem to be better at debt control than many, I wouldn't be surprised if between 50% to 75% of the population are actually debt free (again disregarding mortgages). This means that true average amongst those actually in debt is more like £6000 to £7500.

In reply to galpinos:

Indeed they are which is why i didnt pay mine back but used it for my house to keep the mortgage down

In reply to Trangia:

I agree that's worrying...and I think it's down to the banks etc - they should not make credit so freely available. I receive sooooo many letters offering me new credit cards etc. Luckily, I am a sensible chap and just bin em all.

Having said that, people who get to a level of debt that gives them cause for concern should also take responsibility for their own actions. The don't HAVE TO borrow money...

In reply to Keith Roughley:

hmm... this sort of thread... is anyone who *does* carry a lot of unsecured debt really going to post and say yes, I'm in debt up to my neck, so everyone who isn't can point at them and make them feel even more rubbish? It's not a smug thread yet but others like this have ended up that way...

In reply to Keith Roughley: I've just had the catering bill for our wedding thud on to the doormat. All my debts add up to £5000 now (ex. mortgage). 4 or 5 years to pay that off. Still, twas a lovely day, and the food was smashing. Hey ho, at least I haven't spent it all on shoes or something.

In reply to Keith Roughley:

no

In reply to CJD:
better to feel rubbish and get a grip on finances then go down the financial plughole and feel really rubbish.

In reply to erikb56:

no shit...


lol

In reply to CJD:
so why object if people get a kick up the arse by smug people??

In reply to erikb56:
Are the people moaning about Morgages forgetting they have a house?
In theory you should be able to sell your house and pay off the morgage, you can't sell a credit card bill!

In reply to erikb56:

lol, would people wittering in a mildly holier-than-thou way (not that they are on this thread but these things happen) on an internet forum really spur you on to change something about your life?

In reply to Keith Roughley: I dont have any debts and I have never racked up unsecured debts. I have a natural in-built anti-debt device - its called worrying. As someone who can worry about an egg boiling the idea of getting into debt is just not on. :-{

In reply to Keith Roughley: I'm worried by mine

In reply to CJD:
as part of a cumulative effect on someones psyche quite possibly yes.

In reply to Keith Roughley:


I have about £25K of unsecured debt.

It doesn't bother me at all.

In reply to Marc C:

Me too, unfortunately, but I'm doing my best to reduce it as soon as possible

In reply to Keith Roughley:

I wonder how the stats have been arrived at.How for example have they balanced out foreign exchange - difference between euro/£ - higher /lower wages etc etc. It's to much of a headline grabber for my liking.

Most european countries have an aversion to credit cards, only just started becoming popular in Germany to my knowledge for example. So you could argue they have not had many years in which to rack up an equivalent debt.

No doubt somebody will put me right!

In reply to CJD:

Well I'm in debt. Result of stupidity when married, then subsequent divorce. However, it's down from over £7k to under £3k now, but I don't really earn much so just chip away very slowly at it, moving it from 0% card to 0% card to keep the interest at bay. I'm getting there, slowly, and don't feel that rubbish about it.
As someone else said above, it's all relative. I see myself as asset rich and cash poor. If I had to pay it all back next month, I could easily sell stuff (jewellery, wedding dress, climbing gear {god forbid!}) or remortgage, and I have plenty of equity in the house. So no, mildly concerned, don't want it getting worse, all credit cards now destroyed, but not really worried

In reply to Caralynr: Exactly. Debt is relative to assets and income. Of course it would be nice to have no debts, but I don't get too hung up about it. My debts have been accummulated by spending on things I've enjoyed (holidays, guitars, books, home improvements), so the access to credit has been appreciated. As you say, assets can be liquidized to pay debts off...the future is bright and debt-free (it's a barge on Rochdale Canal, 20 books, a bicycle and a wind-up radio!)

In reply to Keith Roughley:

it is scary, not on an individual basis, but on the effect that it could have on the economy. It is at a high enough level to be a nasty trigger and cause the whole thing to go tits up (can't be bothered to write long post explaining it all now)

In reply to Keith Roughley:

also, does anyone know what they define as average? is it everyone between the ages of 18 and 65? Do they include pensioners etc?

In reply to Keith Roughley: I'm at university. Thanks to the new cost of a university education i am leaving unemployed with over £30,000 of debt.

In reply to Marc C: We'll have the mooring next door, Marc!

There's a thought which goes along the lines of "Die in debt. You've had a great time on the BANKS money..."

I'm like others on here, I may carry a 'debt', but I know I can realise assets into cash, and come out ahead.

Me n Vlad are just sorting a house move, and WERE looking at a £170K mortgage... Thankfully that's not happening now, but most folk with a mortgage would regard even £6K of additional debt as small beer...

TTG trying to add a little perspective here.

In reply to Rebus: WHAT! I hope you are doing something like Law or medicine which is more than 3 years long.

I am not saying your like this, but I have noticed that a lot of students now expect a much higher standard of living compaired to students in the 90's. Even if you take out of the equation the tuition fees, the cost of living has not gone up by the same amount that student debt has.

In reply to Pinky: Yes, My average cost per year is £9,000 and i'm there for 3 years. so just under the £30,000 mark. I'm doing English Language so my degree doesn't actually come with a huge salery attached at the end. I'm living in an area where sirens go past every 5 seconds. I've had armed robbery where i've been eating, assaults on the streets and a large number of other illegal activities and i've only been here a week. In addition to this my kitchen smells of Cr*p because the fridges are broken. The cupboards are all falling off at the hindges and the cooker...well the least said about that the better. By room is small and damp and my bed seems to have the most uncomfortable mattress in the world. So i can hardly call it the Ritz but then again i wasn't expecting it to be so i'm quite happy.

In reply to Keith Roughley:

"I owe, I owe, it's off to work we go..."

In reply to Rebus: THAT is costing you £9K? You must drink a LOT of beer...

In reply to O Mighty Tim: haha yea well my accommodation is, i think, £3,500 a year and my tuition is £3,000 so yea in a year most of my living expense goes on beer and the odd drunken disorderly fine.

In reply to microd:

Well yes, as in don't get in debt in the first place by doing what you describe, but no, as in if someone hasn't done what you describe, then what I describe is the next best thing they can do, apart from cutting the damn thing into pieces.

In reply to Rebus:

Why bother doing an english degree if you are racking up so much debt. I do not understand the logic. Why not doing a decent degree?

In reply to neilh: Mainly because i enjoy the subject. Or i could do law but you wouldn't want me defending you.

In reply to neilh:

define a 'decent' degree?

not everyone has aptitude for vocational degrees, but degrees in the likes of English language can be widely applied.

why does *anyone* do any degree nowadays? for the paycheque at the end? Rebus sounds okay about his choices - his comment about 'knowing what he was getting so he's quite happy about it' at the end of one of his posts...

In reply to Rebus: Hmmm. My son is thinking about Uni places for next year. We have looked around Cardiff, and decent accom comes in around £200-£250 a month...
Where ARE you? What on earth can they offer that makes an English degree worth £30K?

TTG

In reply to O Mighty Tim: Cardiff is outside the area for the raise in tuition fees as Wales have decided not to raise the cost of tuition. My Degree is costing me on average £9,000 a year (£3,500 a year on Accommodation, £3,000 on tuition and another say £2,500 on living expences) I'm currently residing in Gloucestershire. They are not offering anything specific. I wish your son luck in getting into Cardiff it's a great university.

In reply to Paul P:

Your right, I have a large mortgage, but this does not really worry me, a credit card balance a fortieth the size of my mortgage would worry me a great deal more.

In reply to O Mighty Tim:
£6K personal loan would not bother me, £6K on a credit card would.

In reply to CJD:

I just reckon that people are going to have to be a bit cutier in the future about looking at their earnings post degrees more seriously. For example The majority of lawyers are not that well paid now when you take into account the amount of work required after the degree and when you compare their average salaries to other occupations. The exception is partners. Yet everybody thinks that all lawyers are highly paid. I know plenty of for example chemical engineers, stess engineers etc etc who earn far more money. The average starting salary for these after a degree is far higher than a solicitor.

In reply to neilh: Of course it is. The salery doesn't bother me as long as i can get by and enjoy my job. The reason i am doing a degree such as English language is because i find it interesting. I find no logic in doing a job purely for money.

In reply to Rebus:

good for you.

(that's what I did - studied fine art)

if you can live with the debt, so much the better. it's all about perspective and you sound like you've got your eyes open even at the start of it all.

I sometimes worry about my debts but its all student related with me. Its about £8000 or so student loans (and a £150k mortgage) but Im paying them all off. I've got a great wage and job security I dont really see a problem. I will be student-loan free in under 2 years and will only have a mortgage that is more than covered by what I'd get if I sold my house....I try not to worry but I do actually hate being having loans.

In reply to neilh:


Starting salaries can be totally misleading eg an accountant at PWC can start on 20-24k, but following 2 years can easily be on 35k+. The same is not true of engineers in my experience. Of course some engineers in specialised fields are well paid, but that is true of any profession. I wouldn't lose any sleep over how "little" a lawyer starts on, if they are any good then they will soon be earning a substantial amount of money!

In reply to Keith Roughley:

Don't use tomorrow to pay for today...

"Whether you're a sub-Saharan nation or just a cashstrapped British shopper, debt's a killer. It kills your money. Because for as long as it hangs around, your debt means you can't make the most of today because you're still trying to pay for yesterday.

Personal debt's gone through the roof in this country. If you go and boil an egg right now, by the time it's ready Britain will be another £1m in debt.* By July last year, we collectively owed more than a trillion pounds (that's £1,000,000,000,000) on mortgages, loans and credit cards. Doesn't that seem just a little bit nuts?

Trouble is, everyone needs money. If you fancy a week's surfing, you need some cash. Even a couple of quiet pints requires the readies. And there are plenty of people out there who'll lend it to you. Or, in other words, to take a piece of your tomorrow in payment for today.

You might have a great week at the beach, or a cracking night out, but if you've done it on credit, it turns into a little black cloud over all the days it takes to pay off. (And sometimes a great big, fat black cloud.) Short term high, long-term low.

Living without debt means living without black clouds. It means living for today and tomorrow. It means escaping that feeling that you're constantly trying to dig your way out of a hole. (And, if it helps, remember it also means not adding to the squillions-worth of interest that the banks make every day, basically for doing nothing.)

From where we're sitting we just happen to think life's a lot more relaxed and fun if you can buy something without feeling that stab of guilt about your expanding overdraft, or the fact you should really be paying off the credit card.

Of course it means we can't have everything we want right now. But a bit of compromise today has got to be better than spending weeks, months or years with your options hemmed in by loan and credit card repayments.

by Mike Reed

*British household debt goes up by £1m every four minutes, according to the debt advice charity Credit Action. The trillion - pound UK debt figure comes from www.bbc.co.uk."

Howies

In reply to Rebus:

You sound like the student equivalent of Joe Simpson.

In reply to Keith Roughley: Sorryt to make this sound worse Keithbut as i do not have any debts and i know many others who don't this actually increases the individual debts nationwide as myself and my friends shouldn't be included in this average. i cant say i haven't had debts, cos' i used to have loads but i worked hard and got myself out of it. i guess that makes me richer than average and i don't have any money!

In reply to MJH:
On the assumption they pass the exams...and what is the drop out rate.

I have had various discussions with lawyers who basically say it is a bit of a myth. yes for partners the earnings are glorious, but for those lower down the line the earnings are just not all that well paid. Most do not get to be partners, they are just associates. Yet everybody wants to be a lawyer cos of the so called high earnings.

Interstingly two people I know who worked in careers advice for 18 year old saids they had seen the figures to back this up. Maybe the tide has turned? Who knows...

In reply to neilh: Well I am going off what friends in London earn or used to earn, but they certainly weren't doing badly after a couple of years and they weren't anything special.

As for passing exams well that is true of all professions - you hardly want anyone whho is no good or not qualified to do the job...

In reply to posters: how come your student loans are so low? after 3 years of uni and 3 years not paying it back, i owe about £12000. However, some of that is in the building society, waiting to pay a house deposit...

In reply to CJD:


Er, OK then. £12,000 loan taken out in Jan, £1,100 on one credit card and £3,000 on another (down from nearly £5k a year and a bit ago!) another loan of £5,500. On the other hand I am a home owner but with a very large mortgage and no roof at the moment it's debatable how much of it I actually own (and if the bit I do own is the roof then that's not much use!).

I am worried about my debt but if I keep my job I should pay it off in the next 1 or 2 years. I am worried about everyone elses debt because I think personal bankrupcy is going to ruin the economic prosperity of the country.

In reply to Keith Roughley: I would be more worried about your pensions. if you're not on a final salary pension and haven't made provisions the future is bleak.

A friend of mine is an IFA and he told me he had a chap in recently who was 38 and was earning £135,000 PA but had no pension in place. The amount he would have to save monthly to retire at 60 on a decent pension was too abhorent even on his rather good salary!

I have been fortunate and have had company pensions which I have not contributed to, but now (I am mid 30's) I will have to start adding at least £300 a month (ideally £500) from NOW to retire on what i would consider a reasonable salary at 65 yrs.

A lot of my friends who don't have any pension and are mid 30's adopt the emu position when it's ever mentioned. I think i would as well..

In reply to Keith Roughley:

Oh suddenly it's 'our' debt... everything's been 'yours' and 'mine' so far in our relationship. :¬)

In reply to neilh:

Thus spaketh a scientist....and we wonder where the geeky stereotype of a scientist comes from eh?

No offence,just banter!

In reply to Caralynr: Good attitude.