UKC

This topic probably comes around fairly regularly, have done some searching about but thought it might be worth a new post for up to date info.

Looking at getting a small van.  Budget is up to 2.5k.

Current car has been really great - 2004 Passat estate 1.9tdi 130hp.  Just worked out it's cost ~17p per mile (that's everything; initial cost, diesel, tax,tyres, insurance, mot's, etc.) based on ~15k miles per year for the 4 years I've had it.  That's doing a bit of work on it myself, brakes, oil changes, etc. from time to time but nothing major.  Considered just getting the same or similar VAG vintage estate vehicle since it's been so good, economical and reliable but it seems hard to find ones in decent knick these days and keen to have the extra convenience of a van for trips.  Realise the above figures probably aren't replicable with a van realistically but it would be nice to get somewhere close...

Vauxhall Combo - there seem to be lots of these around though mainly with the 1.3cdti fiat engine which gets a lot of bad press.  Lots of cheaper, older combos with this engine have large milages (often pushing 200k) though so presumably can't be too bad?  The 1.7 cdti sounds like the best choice but they seem a lot more rare... 

Transit connect - ideally would like the lwb high roof version as otherwise a bit low and small for a little camper?  Enigines have a good rep?  Again, the one's I'd prefer seem more rare and generally not as many about compared to combos.

Then there're the french ones... Haven't researched these as much.  Any decent versions of berlingos worth considering?  Read good things about the 1.5dci renault engine which is in kangoos but don't see many about.

Any other suggestions/ideas?

Thanks

I think with 2500 you will really only find something that will cost you a third to half of that every year in repairs and maintenance as it will be old and have a huge mileage. Im afraid that’s very low budget for a van and may end up costing you constantly until it’s dead, from experience (first one was 2.4k cost me £1000 a year at least in fixing shit then needed to be scrapped after 3 years)

Like all things a second hand van is pot luck. Last year I sold a 10 year old Renault traffic that I had from new, it had 190k on the clock and cost nothing in maintenance until the last year I owned it. It sold for £1100. Also sold a pair of Mercedes vitos, both 12 years old, 1 at 250k and one at 200k, again neither cost us anything until the last year of ownership.

The flip side though, I had a transit from new and I got shut at 3 years old and 70k, it had loads of warranty work and I got shut as soon as the warranty ran out, a pal of mine runs a 15 year old transit with close to 400k on it though and it's never cost anything but consumables. 

I'm a bit confused, you say small van and mention the combi and the kangoo then say if it was a connect it would need to be the lwb high roof. 

The connect is more mid sizes than small van. 

If your looking mid sized I have very good experiences with the Renault traffic (owned 7, never had a pup), the Mercedes Vito (had 2} and the Citroen Dispatch (had 2)

All these vans have been in daily use and did between 150 and 200k before they started becoming un reliable and had to go. 

Had a Transit connect LWB hi-top for three years (2008 model) which I've just sold.

Made a decent minicamper/day van but I'm 6ft and it was just long enough for me to sleep in. If I was to do another one (not likely in Scotland) I would probably go for something bigger like a Hi-Ace or Vivaro. 

Lovely to drive and it was weirdly quite nice having an interior without all the modern pish. It was the most modern vehicle I've owned and it still had wind down windows haha

Sounds like you're used to playing the use car game but 2.5k is not a lot for a van, they tend to hold their value much more than cars despite being commercial vehicles designed to be hammered for three years by a business then offloaded.  Put it this way, webuyanycar.com gave me similar money to what I could get in a normal private sale (!)

You may get lucky but chances are that kind of money will need a chunk of mechanical work doing to it.

Also. Insurance. The main reason I got rid of mine is that the insurance was getting silly despite a clean licence for 13 years 10+ years NCB.

This is before we get into the discussion around insuring a DIY conversion!

I looked at getting a ford connect but went for a Vito 111 instead as then mpg was about the same bit the vito was bigger and generally better all round. I also looked at the Citeron Dispatch and the Fiat equivalent and came to the conclusions that old version (1996 - 2006) was way more reliable.

I had a Ford Connect high-top van for a couple of years.  It was the biggest heap of junk I have ever had the pleasure of breaking down in. 

When it was going it was fine - very handy size and shape and pleasant enough to drive, but it was very unreliable.

Had a quick birl around in my employers one a couple of months back - it was very similar, same selection of dashboard warning lights blinking at me and fairly ineffective brakes.  It didn’t break down but my colleague who usually drove it made sure I had my phone with me as she had done more than once.

There might be good Transit Connects about, but in my personal experience of two, they have both been duds.

I had a  Vauxhall Combo van.  I(sorry can't remember the engine size).  It was as comfortable as a car to drive and of course I could sleep in it!!  And it did over 40mpg.  They are apparently a Corsa with the rear replaced by the van bit!!

But the Diesel Partical Filter caused me no end of grief.  That said, there were at least 4 other owners of the same model in our village and non of them had problems with their DPF

Does this mean you've driven 1.2 million miles or did you not have them all from new? :-D 

These are just re-badged Fiat Doblos AFAIK. We have a Doblo Combi for work and it's great, 5 seats the back 3 fold away, almost car like to drive.

Agreed. They're kind of a bit like Land Rovers. Always broken in some way but never actually seem to break down. 

And is it a proper old Ford if the engine light isn't on? 😜

I've got a VW Sharan with the 1.9tdi 130bhp engine and its a brilliant vehicle. These engines are superb and will go on forever if you change the oil and cambelt on time, generally they are regarded as much more reliable and long lasting than the subsequent 2.0 engines which replaced them around '09-'10. Lots of VWs and Skodas using these engines with 250k+ miles on them so at your budget I'd try and find a low mileage 1.9 on a 09ish plate rather than a newer higher mileage 2.0.

Obviously the Sharan isn't an actual van but it's very versatile, 7 seater, 5 seat estate with the biggest boot you'll ever see on a car or take all the seats out and you've got a decent sized van, much bigger than Berlingos, Kangoos etc. They also feel like a nice car inside rather than a tin shed that a lot of the smaller vans feel like.

I've also made some removable plywood boxes for storing gear and using as a sleeping platform to convert it to a microcamper when needed.

The Seat Alhambra is the same vehicle as was the early Ford Galaxy but they went their own way in '06.

Re other makes, if you're looking at the Peugeot/Citroen/Fiat range, they use the Peugeot HDi engines. The 2.0HDi is another starship miles engine, we reluctantly had to let go of our 406 with 265k miles on it which was still working fine. The 90 bhp engines tend to be sturdier than higher bhp models if you don't mind lower performance. On the other hand I'd avoid the 1.6HDi versions as they don't have the reputation for durability of the 2.0

Obviously all older diesels have the potential for the DMF and DPF timebomb to 'explode'.

Regarding Berlingos (or Pug Partners) take care around the 1.6 HDi engine.  Some generations of it had a design flaw whereby if the oil was changed by vacuuming it out of the dipstick hole (which is what most garages will do) it would leave cack in the bottom of the engine which could end up in the too-narrow turbo oil supply lines, which would cause the turbo to fail.  You'd replace it and it'd fail again repeatedly because once the line was cacked up there was no sensible way of getting it out.  If you're buying one of these, only buy if it has a full main dealer service history as they will know how to do it properly, and if there's any talk of the turbo having been replaced run a mile.

I believe the 2.0 did not have this issue, and a sort-of-fix was applied to newer engines though I forget how recently.

Check out the Royal mail van auctions or just general ex-RM vans.. I got a '07 transit for under 3k about 4 years ago with 90 000 on the clock and its given me no issues so far apart from the usual transit things. It was a bit dinged up on the outside but if looks are not an issue they can be a bargain that was atleast well maintained when it was owned by RM.

Thanks a lot for the info and recommendations, much appreciated.  I'm now on the look out for a decent sharan/alhambra/galaxy with the 1.9 tdi vag engine as per pec's recommendation.  It's the same engine as in my current passat and the golf I had before that - struggling to justify deviating from the known reliability, longevity, power and economy this engine has to offer.  I remember arriving at a similar conclusion last time I was buying a vehicle (looked briefly at vans then too but ended up with passat) - estates and mpv type things offer remarkably better value than vans as they have better, more reliable and powerful engines.  Just better vehicles all round for a given budget.  Also saw the alhambras and galaxies sometimes have rotating captain's front seats which would be really great.  Intention is to get all the other seats out and then fit out as camper.

No I have 7 service engineers (myself included) and I only change mine and their vans when they start costing me money. I got 8 or 9 years out of my last van for example. 

My Ford tourneo connect is good, but wasn't clapped out when I got it (35000).

Had an old Peugeot partner which was incredibly shit. Think people sell them at 80000 because after that they're utterly useless. And they rattle like f*ck if you put music on, which I cannot tolerate. 

I was looking around small vans, but everything I looked at was too small. VW Combo, Ford Connect etc. Ended up with a VW T4 (Didn't want to join the vw crew) but it ticked all of the boxes and it is amazing!

A couple of things if you're looking for s Sharan now, air con is a common fault and expensive to fix (new pump fitted c.£400+) so make sure it works properly and on the ones I viewed wheel arch rust was common so pay attention there, including attempts to hide it!

Mine didn't have the rotating 'captains' seats but I got some from a breakers along with a roller blind style parcel shelf, not all have them. I got the the brackets for the shelf from them as well.

So, 3 years cost you 5.4k in total, or £1800 a year. That's loads cheaper than the depreciation on a new one, or depreciation + maintenance on a middle aged one.  It may be constant cost, but unless you have some thing major like an engine failure it's still cheaper than running a newer van.

+1 for the "£2500 is very cheap for a van in reasonable shape".

I think it's worth considering that it isn't just engines problems that end up with you scrapping the vehicle - rust is another problem that can kill a vehicle because you just can't get it past an MOT any longer. You sound pretty handy with vehicles in general though so I guess you would be able to make an accurate estimate of whether the rust you see is problematic or not when seeing a van.

A few years ago £5-6k was given regularly as a figure for a 2nd hand mid-sized van in reasonable condition that you could get a decent lifespan out of. There isn't much difference in price between a small and mid-sized van. At the price point you are looking at you are more likely than not to get 1 to 3 years with fairly high upkeep costs (though as others have pointed out, you could be lucky and find one that is a steal if it's been well looked after and/or you are just lucky). It is worth thinking about how much effort you might put into a conversion too - if you put a thousand or more plus time and effort into a conversion and the van dies after 2 years, you might feel a bit frustrated.

Can't believe no one has mentioned VW Caddy. Literally the best small van you can buy but I'm hugely biased obviously haha. 

All joking aside I had a Vauxhall Combo before and that is as small as you would ever wanna go for a day van/micro camper. I had nothing but problems with the combo and ended up scrapping it. 

By contrast, the Caddy has been a dream. Had it just over two years and completed my micro camper conversion while on furlough. Mines got the 1.6 102 engine and it's great to drive but there's the 1.9 as well which will feel very similar to your Passat I would imagine