This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
That was a headline in the Guardian this morning (fellow opposite me on the Tube reading it).
I've taken a brief straw poll in the office this morning, and the most probable answers appear to be:
1. "Nothing".
2. "WTF is Miley Cyrus"?
3. "She's an annoying little attention-seeker".
and 4 (a bit left-field this one) "She reminds me of that time my dog had sex with the vicar's poodle on the carpet during a local church afternoon tea".
I suspect the actual article wasn't along any of these lines - focussing more on the sisterhood, I imagine, and MC's contribution to either its emancipation or its oppression.
I can't summon up the will to read it online, though. Anyone done so and able to assuage my curiosity?
jcm
I've taken a brief straw poll in the office this morning, and the most probable answers appear to be:
1. "Nothing".
2. "WTF is Miley Cyrus"?
3. "She's an annoying little attention-seeker".
and 4 (a bit left-field this one) "She reminds me of that time my dog had sex with the vicar's poodle on the carpet during a local church afternoon tea".
I suspect the actual article wasn't along any of these lines - focussing more on the sisterhood, I imagine, and MC's contribution to either its emancipation or its oppression.
I can't summon up the will to read it online, though. Anyone done so and able to assuage my curiosity?
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
She's had a bit of a correspondence with Sinead O'Connor, which may be relevant to the story. If you can bear to look at the BBC website you'll find the details.
She's had a bit of a correspondence with Sinead O'Connor, which may be relevant to the story. If you can bear to look at the BBC website you'll find the details.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Naff all if you're older than 17, but won't someone please think of the children!!
Naff all if you're older than 17, but won't someone please think of the children!!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
So I cracked.
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/oct/08/miley-cyrus-what-women-her-a...
Oppression, apparently. Bit dated. I'd hoped for at least a little empowerment.
jcm
So I cracked.
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/oct/08/miley-cyrus-what-women-her-a...
Oppression, apparently. Bit dated. I'd hoped for at least a little empowerment.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: I'm not sure if it's dated, or if it just takes different forms?
A sis in law was saying a few days ago that there're more pressure on women and young girls to be attractive and to look a certain way than a couple of decades ago.
I don't think it's dated at all, particularly.
A sis in law was saying a few days ago that there're more pressure on women and young girls to be attractive and to look a certain way than a couple of decades ago.
I don't think it's dated at all, particularly.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
She used to sing a good mountain song.
youtube.com/watch?v=NG2zyeVRcbs&
She used to sing a good mountain song.
youtube.com/watch?v=NG2zyeVRcbs&
In reply to Timmd:
Don’t you? I’d have thought the modern view – certainly the only sane view – was that life is not a team game conducted between two teams called ‘men’ and ‘women’ and that if something is damaging to a proper relationship between the two it damages all of us, rather than ‘letting women down’, as some sisters seem to imagine MC is doing.
jcm
> I don't think it's dated at all, particularly.
Don’t you? I’d have thought the modern view – certainly the only sane view – was that life is not a team game conducted between two teams called ‘men’ and ‘women’ and that if something is damaging to a proper relationship between the two it damages all of us, rather than ‘letting women down’, as some sisters seem to imagine MC is doing.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: She's just marking time between the Disney Channel and her first sex tape. What with her antics on a bike and Terry Richardson's snaps, I don't think that we've got too long to wait.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: I wonder why media feel they have to publish this kind of surveys. I can't imagine the Guardian interviewing men on the topic "what does Justin Bieber/Mister T./Prince Charles mean for men?".
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Actually, on a semi-serious point, I thought the way MC (or more likely one of her handlers) responded to Sinead O'Connor's well-intentioned letter by poking fun at her bipolar condition was pretty cheap.
Actually, on a semi-serious point, I thought the way MC (or more likely one of her handlers) responded to Sinead O'Connor's well-intentioned letter by poking fun at her bipolar condition was pretty cheap.
In reply to Mike Highbury: Terry richardson is a thoroughly unpleasant sleazeball
In reply to Dave Garnett:
There's more insightful Irish commentary on that video here:
youtube.com/watch?v=bK3fKCp46uc&
There's more insightful Irish commentary on that video here:
youtube.com/watch?v=bK3fKCp46uc&
In reply to Dave Garnett:
Very much so. Extremely ungracious, and if it was 'one of her handlers' also inept and unprofessional.
Very much so. Extremely ungracious, and if it was 'one of her handlers' also inept and unprofessional.
In reply to toad:
Good to find another connoisseur of his work.
> (In reply to Mike Highbury) Terry richardson is a thoroughly unpleasant sleazeball
Good to find another connoisseur of his work.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Is there something wrong with her? Going by the photos I've seen recently she doesn't seem to be able to keep her tongue in her head.
Is there something wrong with her? Going by the photos I've seen recently she doesn't seem to be able to keep her tongue in her head.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
For an intelligent man I'm surprised you've not guessed that it could be the oppressive/unhelpful effects of what's in the media which is produced by 'some men' which is in the media, which they're talking about being unhealthy for the developing psyches of young females (and males come to that?), rather than seeing it as something which comes from 'men in general' which women have to rally against.
I'd have thought that much was obvious to be honest. Genuinely.
> (In reply to Timmd)
>
> [...]
>
> Don’t you? I’d have thought the modern view – certainly the only sane view – was that life is not a team game conducted between two teams called ‘men’ and ‘women’ and that if something is damaging to a proper relationship between the two it damages all of us, rather than ‘letting women down’, as some sisters seem to imagine MC is doing.
>
> jcm
>
> [...]
>
> Don’t you? I’d have thought the modern view – certainly the only sane view – was that life is not a team game conducted between two teams called ‘men’ and ‘women’ and that if something is damaging to a proper relationship between the two it damages all of us, rather than ‘letting women down’, as some sisters seem to imagine MC is doing.
>
> jcm
For an intelligent man I'm surprised you've not guessed that it could be the oppressive/unhelpful effects of what's in the media which is produced by 'some men' which is in the media, which they're talking about being unhealthy for the developing psyches of young females (and males come to that?), rather than seeing it as something which comes from 'men in general' which women have to rally against.
I'd have thought that much was obvious to be honest. Genuinely.
In reply to Timmd:
>I'd have thought that much was obvious to be honest. Genuinely.
Would you? I'm afraid I actually have no idea what you mean.
jcm
>I'd have thought that much was obvious to be honest. Genuinely.
Would you? I'm afraid I actually have no idea what you mean.
jcm
In reply to Timmd:
Mostly from other women.
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously) I'm not sure if it's dated, or if it just takes different forms?
>
> A sis in law was saying a few days ago that there're more pressure on women and young girls to be attractive and to look a certain way than a couple of decades ago.
>
>
> A sis in law was saying a few days ago that there're more pressure on women and young girls to be attractive and to look a certain way than a couple of decades ago.
>
Mostly from other women.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
She has a blatant disregard for health and safety at work
youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8&
She has a blatant disregard for health and safety at work
youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8&
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: This thread isn't working...
I'll be under my stone if you need me....
I'll be under my stone if you need me....
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Asking "what does MC mean for women" pushes her behaviour on to an intellectual level - and unnecessarily so.
FOLLOW THE MONEY. Her current behaviour is making money; people can try to intellectualise all they want.
FOLLOW THE MONEY. Her current behaviour is making money; people can try to intellectualise all they want.
In reply to Shani:
Nonsense; her behaviour may have consequences for women even if she doesn't intend them.
jcm
Nonsense; her behaviour may have consequences for women even if she doesn't intend them.
jcm
In reply to Timmd: "A sis in law was saying a few days ago that there're more pressure on women and young girls to be attractive and to look a certain way than a couple of decades ago."
I watched TOWIE Vegas a few days ago and I can assure you that the current pressure to look beautiful by the cosmetic surgery route is backfiring , unless the objective is to resemble an alien from Area 52.
I watched TOWIE Vegas a few days ago and I can assure you that the current pressure to look beautiful by the cosmetic surgery route is backfiring , unless the objective is to resemble an alien from Area 52.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Really? At some level, all aspects of our behaviour may have consequences - we influence of children and friends, and this influence may ebb and flow depending on circumstance.
But MCs behaviour - is it anything out of the ordinary for wannabes? Anything we haven't really seen before? Who does she represent and what kind of person would think that MC is typical of 'women'. In fact who would think that her media persona is typical of MC?
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Nonsense; her behaviour may have consequences for women even if she doesn't intend them.
>
> jcm
>
> Nonsense; her behaviour may have consequences for women even if she doesn't intend them.
>
> jcm
Really? At some level, all aspects of our behaviour may have consequences - we influence of children and friends, and this influence may ebb and flow depending on circumstance.
But MCs behaviour - is it anything out of the ordinary for wannabes? Anything we haven't really seen before? Who does she represent and what kind of person would think that MC is typical of 'women'. In fact who would think that her media persona is typical of MC?
In reply to Shani:
>But MCs behaviour - is it anything out of the ordinary for wannabes? Anything we haven't really seen before? Who does she represent and what kind of person would think that MC is typical of 'women'. In fact who would think that her media persona is typical of MC?
Well, no, I agree with all that. That's why I thought the headline and article were a bit silly, really. But as to your last two sentences, no-one is saying that. It's your standard female-starlets-have-to-take-their-clothes-off-and-that-oppresses-the-sisterhood stuff, which is only your first two sentences, surely?
jcm
>But MCs behaviour - is it anything out of the ordinary for wannabes? Anything we haven't really seen before? Who does she represent and what kind of person would think that MC is typical of 'women'. In fact who would think that her media persona is typical of MC?
Well, no, I agree with all that. That's why I thought the headline and article were a bit silly, really. But as to your last two sentences, no-one is saying that. It's your standard female-starlets-have-to-take-their-clothes-off-and-that-oppresses-the-sisterhood stuff, which is only your first two sentences, surely?
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I am grieving for my mum at the moment, so I'm prone to being grumpy it seems...
I'll put it more simply. To say there is oppression against women from men within a society, doesn't mean that it comes from all men in general, which means that it isn't pitting the sexes against one another to say that there is oppression against women, in this case in the form of media content which can have an unhealthy effect on the psyches of developing young females.
The other women in the article are critical of Miley Cyrus, because, with Miley Cyrus being a role model to young and developing females, she should consider how she is portraying herself. The oppression angle comes from men being behind the current image for Miley Cyrus, in the effect it has on said young females and how they see themselves.
The music industry is largely run by men, so it seems plausible that it is men behind the image change.
I hope that is clearer.
> (In reply to Timmd)
>
> >I'd have thought that much was obvious to be honest. Genuinely.
>
> Would you? I'm afraid I actually have no idea what you mean.
>
> jcm
>
> >I'd have thought that much was obvious to be honest. Genuinely.
>
> Would you? I'm afraid I actually have no idea what you mean.
>
> jcm
I am grieving for my mum at the moment, so I'm prone to being grumpy it seems...
I'll put it more simply. To say there is oppression against women from men within a society, doesn't mean that it comes from all men in general, which means that it isn't pitting the sexes against one another to say that there is oppression against women, in this case in the form of media content which can have an unhealthy effect on the psyches of developing young females.
The other women in the article are critical of Miley Cyrus, because, with Miley Cyrus being a role model to young and developing females, she should consider how she is portraying herself. The oppression angle comes from men being behind the current image for Miley Cyrus, in the effect it has on said young females and how they see themselves.
The music industry is largely run by men, so it seems plausible that it is men behind the image change.
I hope that is clearer.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
She's really embarrassing and cringeworthy. Fact..according to all females I know that have mentioned it..particularly the laughable/embarrassing 'tonguing the hammer' bit....daddy must be so proud
She's really embarrassing and cringeworthy. Fact..according to all females I know that have mentioned it..particularly the laughable/embarrassing 'tonguing the hammer' bit....daddy must be so proud
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Ah, ok, with you. The most rebellious female star of recent times is Adele. She's plumb, ginger and has had to scrape by on talent alone! Not easy in the world of entertainment.
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> >But MCs behaviour - is it anything out of the ordinary for wannabes? Anything we haven't really seen before? Who does she represent and what kind of person would think that MC is typical of 'women'. In fact who would think that her media persona is typical of MC?
>
>
> Well, no, I agree with all that. That's why I thought the headline and article were a bit silly, really. But as to your last two sentences, no-one is saying that. It's your standard female-starlets-have-to-take-their-clothes-off-and-that-oppresses-the-sisterhood stuff, which is only your first two sentences, surely?
>
> jcm
>
> >But MCs behaviour - is it anything out of the ordinary for wannabes? Anything we haven't really seen before? Who does she represent and what kind of person would think that MC is typical of 'women'. In fact who would think that her media persona is typical of MC?
>
>
> Well, no, I agree with all that. That's why I thought the headline and article were a bit silly, really. But as to your last two sentences, no-one is saying that. It's your standard female-starlets-have-to-take-their-clothes-off-and-that-oppresses-the-sisterhood stuff, which is only your first two sentences, surely?
>
> jcm
Ah, ok, with you. The most rebellious female star of recent times is Adele. She's plumb, ginger and has had to scrape by on talent alone! Not easy in the world of entertainment.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: she's just an irritating gob-shite.
In reply to Jon Jones:
Yes, for a sex object she's oddly unattractive isn't she?
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity)
>
> she's like a cow trying to lick a fly out of its nose
>
> she's like a cow trying to lick a fly out of its nose
Yes, for a sex object she's oddly unattractive isn't she?
In reply to PeterM:
He has his own shame to deal with.
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously)
>
> She's really embarrassing and cringeworthy. Fact..according to all females I know that have mentioned it..particularly the laughable/embarrassing 'tonguing the hammer' bit....daddy must be so proud
>
> She's really embarrassing and cringeworthy. Fact..according to all females I know that have mentioned it..particularly the laughable/embarrassing 'tonguing the hammer' bit....daddy must be so proud
He has his own shame to deal with.
In reply to Timmd:
So sorry to hear that, hope you are as ok as you can be. Take care
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously)
> [...]
>
> I am grieving for my mum at the moment...
> [...]
>
> I am grieving for my mum at the moment...
So sorry to hear that, hope you are as ok as you can be. Take care
In reply to jcm:
I think that it is a stage that a lot of young women in the entertainment industry go through when they have been a child star and they want to be seen more as an adult.
In my day it was Kylie going from being "girl next door" on neighbours and dating Jason Donovan and being generally wholesome, to her dating Michael Hutchence from INXS wearing tarty clothes and getting her kit off http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llcm0xvFhl1qb5w6t.jpg
I don't feel that it is that big a deal.
I think that it is a stage that a lot of young women in the entertainment industry go through when they have been a child star and they want to be seen more as an adult.
In my day it was Kylie going from being "girl next door" on neighbours and dating Jason Donovan and being generally wholesome, to her dating Michael Hutchence from INXS wearing tarty clothes and getting her kit off http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llcm0xvFhl1qb5w6t.jpg
I don't feel that it is that big a deal.
In reply to marsbar:
In my day it was Kylie going from being "girl next door" on neighbours and dating Jason Donovan and being generally wholesome, to her dating Michael Hutchence from INXS wearing tarty clothes and getting her kit off.
Allegedly, Hutchence introduced her to seven illegal sex acts. Not sure if it's true or what they could be, but it's certainly something to think about.
In my day it was Kylie going from being "girl next door" on neighbours and dating Jason Donovan and being generally wholesome, to her dating Michael Hutchence from INXS wearing tarty clothes and getting her kit off.
Allegedly, Hutchence introduced her to seven illegal sex acts. Not sure if it's true or what they could be, but it's certainly something to think about.
In reply to PeterM:
I shouldn't really know anything about Miley Cyrus, but she gets so much outraged coverage in the Guardian that I've been sucked in. I even watched the 'wrecking ball' video on youtube when I read that she was performing oral sex on a sledgehammer.
My mental image was of her deep-throating a foot or so of the shaft, so imagine my disappointment when I found that she was simply tonguing the head.
I will be doing my best to ignore her in future and would appreciate it if supposedly quality newspapers joined me in this.
> She's really embarrassing and cringeworthy. Fact..according to all females I know that have mentioned it..particularly the laughable/embarrassing 'tonguing the hammer' bit....daddy must be so proud
I shouldn't really know anything about Miley Cyrus, but she gets so much outraged coverage in the Guardian that I've been sucked in. I even watched the 'wrecking ball' video on youtube when I read that she was performing oral sex on a sledgehammer.
My mental image was of her deep-throating a foot or so of the shaft, so imagine my disappointment when I found that she was simply tonguing the head.
I will be doing my best to ignore her in future and would appreciate it if supposedly quality newspapers joined me in this.
In reply to MJ:
Maybe they were only illegal in Tennessee or somewhere. Like doing it with the light on.
> (In reply to marsbar)
> Allegedly, Hutchence introduced her to seven illegal sex acts. Not sure if it's true or what they could be, but it's certainly something to think about.
Maybe they were only illegal in Tennessee or somewhere. Like doing it with the light on.
Barmaid at the Bryn Twerk?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: FFS get a grip. 20 years ago few people would have cared. 20yr old women who makes music dances about in a mildly provocative way. Shockeroonie.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Just asked the wife what this means.
Basically she said it means f*ck all to women, it means a teeniebobber star has promoted her status and will get the papers, youtubers and forums users taking about her so google goes mental and raises her profile.
Imagine if we had google when madonna first appeared on TOTPs? same thing. And besides, you have a 16 year old step daughter upstairs and if you dont understand her now never will....
UKC friends, I may need help soon x
Just asked the wife what this means.
Basically she said it means f*ck all to women, it means a teeniebobber star has promoted her status and will get the papers, youtubers and forums users taking about her so google goes mental and raises her profile.
Imagine if we had google when madonna first appeared on TOTPs? same thing. And besides, you have a 16 year old step daughter upstairs and if you dont understand her now never will....
UKC friends, I may need help soon x
In reply to aln:
20 years ago - so round about the time Madonna's "Justify My Love" video created no controversy whatsoever because few people cared?
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously) FFS get a grip. 20 years ago few people would have cared. 20yr old women who makes music dances about in a mildly provocative way. Shockeroonie.
20 years ago - so round about the time Madonna's "Justify My Love" video created no controversy whatsoever because few people cared?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I was thinking about this, this morning, and wondering if my behaviour will have any consequences for her?
I doubt it.
I'm probably more affected by your behaviour, or by David Cameron's behaviour, or by my work colleagues behaviour. Lots of people I know don't even know who she is, and I wouldn't if it hadn't been in the news.
> Nonsense; her behaviour may have consequences for women even if she doesn't intend them.
I was thinking about this, this morning, and wondering if my behaviour will have any consequences for her?
I doubt it.
I'm probably more affected by your behaviour, or by David Cameron's behaviour, or by my work colleagues behaviour. Lots of people I know don't even know who she is, and I wouldn't if it hadn't been in the news.
In reply to Timmd:
Sorry to hear about your mum - it can be hard.
I think there aren't just men involved in women's oppression. I think it is certain men AND women, and that other women AND men are horrified by it. There are plenty of women as well as men involved in making women and young girls feel inadequate so that they will spend more money on stuff to try to feel better about themselves.
> I'll put it more simply. To say there is oppression against women from men within a society, doesn't mean that it comes from all men in general, which means that it isn't pitting the sexes against one another to say that there is oppression against women, in this case in the form of media content which can have an unhealthy effect on the psyches of developing young females.
Sorry to hear about your mum - it can be hard.
I think there aren't just men involved in women's oppression. I think it is certain men AND women, and that other women AND men are horrified by it. There are plenty of women as well as men involved in making women and young girls feel inadequate so that they will spend more money on stuff to try to feel better about themselves.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I don't care about Miley Cyrus, but everybody else seems to care a lot. This is the problem, not Miley Cyrus.
I don't care about Miley Cyrus, but everybody else seems to care a lot. This is the problem, not Miley Cyrus.
In reply to Timmd:
I hadn't seen that when I posted before - best wishes.
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously)
> [...]
>
> I am grieving for my mum at the moment,
> [...]
>
> I am grieving for my mum at the moment,
I hadn't seen that when I posted before - best wishes.
In reply to deepsoup:
Or to put it another way, the media created a big fuss about the video, probably spurred on by people working for Madonna trying to get as much publicity for the song as they could. I knew no-one who was offended by it. Did you? Were you?
> (In reply to aln)
> [...]
>
> 20 years ago - so round about the time Madonna's "Justify My Love" video created no controversy whatsoever because few people cared?
> [...]
>
> 20 years ago - so round about the time Madonna's "Justify My Love" video created no controversy whatsoever because few people cared?
Or to put it another way, the media created a big fuss about the video, probably spurred on by people working for Madonna trying to get as much publicity for the song as they could. I knew no-one who was offended by it. Did you? Were you?
In reply to aln:
Er.. so are you saying things were different 20 years ago, or aren't you? There's not much point me arguing with you until you've finished arguing with yourself. ;O)
> FFS get a grip. 20 years ago few people would have cared
Er.. so are you saying things were different 20 years ago, or aren't you? There's not much point me arguing with you until you've finished arguing with yourself. ;O)
In reply to tlm:
+1, sorry to hear that Tim, hope you're coming to terms with it and are ok.
I think Tim was talking about the music industry in particular. Agreed there plenty of women at the top level in various industries playing on self perceived inadequacies among women to make a buck. Fashion and cosmetics in particular spring to mind.
> (In reply to Timmd)
>
> [...]
>
> Sorry to hear about your mum - it can be hard.
>
> [...]
>
> Sorry to hear about your mum - it can be hard.
+1, sorry to hear that Tim, hope you're coming to terms with it and are ok.
> I think there aren't just men involved in women's oppression. I think it is certain men AND women, and that other women AND men are horrified by it. There are plenty of women as well as men involved in making women and young girls feel inadequate so that they will spend more money on stuff to try to feel better about themselves.
I think Tim was talking about the music industry in particular. Agreed there plenty of women at the top level in various industries playing on self perceived inadequacies among women to make a buck. Fashion and cosmetics in particular spring to mind.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: whats a miley cyrus?
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
I'm not quite sure, but I've heard her refered to as Smiley Virus on Mark Kermode's R5 film review show............
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously) whats a miley cyrus?
I'm not quite sure, but I've heard her refered to as Smiley Virus on Mark Kermode's R5 film review show............
In reply to George Ormerod:
like
like
In reply to PeterM:
His heart is probably aching and breaking. Wasn't he responsible for making line dancing popular as well?
>
> ....daddy must be so proud
> ....daddy must be so proud
His heart is probably aching and breaking. Wasn't he responsible for making line dancing popular as well?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
No one ever says this about men.
His behaviour may have consequences for men even if he doesn't intend them.
> Nonsense; her behaviour may have consequences for women even if she doesn't intend them.
No one ever says this about men.
His behaviour may have consequences for men even if he doesn't intend them.
In reply to anonymouse:
...and in fact, her behaviour may have consequences for men, even if she doesn't intend them.
We aren't all isolated in separate bubbles.
> His behaviour may have consequences for men even if he doesn't intend them.
...and in fact, her behaviour may have consequences for men, even if she doesn't intend them.
We aren't all isolated in separate bubbles.
In reply to tlm:
That's burst my bubble....
> (In reply to anonymouse)
>
> [...]
>
> ...and in fact, her behaviour may have consequences for men, even if she doesn't intend them.
>
> We aren't all isolated in separate bubbles.
>
> [...]
>
> ...and in fact, her behaviour may have consequences for men, even if she doesn't intend them.
>
> We aren't all isolated in separate bubbles.
That's burst my bubble....
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...