UKC

NEWS: E10 on Hells Lum done!

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 Mike C 25 Aug 2007
Richard Else, on Radio Scotland's Out of Doors programme this morning announced that Dave Macleod completed his E10 route on Hells Lum on Thursday, "one of the most dangerous climbs in the country"
To be shown on TV sometime over the next 5 - 6 weeks.
The man did good..............
Anybody else got any news about this?
 Peter Walker 25 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C: They announced it on the Great Climb website yesterday, but hardly anyone noticed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/greatclimb/climb_news1.shtml#newsitem1
 Fiend 25 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:

Well done (again) Dave. Looking at the working pictures on http://davemacleod.blogspot.com/ it looks like a very nice bit of rock.
 tony 25 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:

More details on Dave's blog:
http://www.davemacleod.blogspot.com/
Anonymous 25 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C: should indian face be upgraded to E10?
 Arjen 25 Aug 2007
In reply to Anonymous:

Nice troll attempt. IF is F7b, Hells Lum is 8a+. Both are death routes, so there should be at least one grade difference between them.

Well done to Dave, brave man.
Anonymous 25 Aug 2007
In reply to Arjen: if i was Dave, i'd be getting into safer bigwall climbing rather than short death-on-stick routes
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7528857002009825524
 Jeff25 25 Aug 2007
In reply to Anonymous:
> (In reply to Arjen) if i was Dave, i'd be getting into safer bigwall climbing rather than short death-on-stick routes

No way! - theres time enough for that when hes old and past his best.

I think its great that he has the mental strength for these routes. His Blog is really well written and captures the headpointers dilema excellently

 Jon Claw 25 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:

Shame there's no decent pictures of him on the route in the blog...
 Padraig 25 Aug 2007
In reply to Jon Claw:
> (In reply to Mike C)
>
> Shame there's no decent pictures of him on the route in the blog...

Don't be daft!! U gotta wait for DVD!
 Padraig 25 Aug 2007
In reply to Padraig:

Also forgot to say saw Dave "practicing" couple of weeks ago and scared the Hell outta me!
 Ropeboy 25 Aug 2007
In reply to Anonymous:
> (In reply to Arjen) if i was Dave, i'd be getting into safer bigwall climbing rather than short death-on-stick routes
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7528857002009825524

Seems odd that they are using a gri-gri with pro?

J
In reply to Mike C:

fantastic...

i'm amazed this thread hasnt had more replies yet...

UKC seems more interested in getting worked up about hanging people than in commenting on a great climber putting up a great route

and will this silence the indian face carpers...?

 pwhiteside 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C: Dave Macleod must have huge balls. Looks fecking scary!!!! Big respect.
 Fiend 26 Aug 2007
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> i'm amazed this thread hasnt had more replies yet...

Bank Holiday weekend.
 orge 26 Aug 2007
Many congratulations Dave!!
Will this be shown on BBC England, as well?

J
 dread-i 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Fiend:
'nuff respect to him.
I wonder if he told his Mrs that it was a "certain death route" before hand ? If so, then I bet she is releived its all over. If he didnt tell her, I bet hes grounded now for a month
 Fiend 26 Aug 2007
In reply to dread-i:

Read his blog update - Claire is his wife.
rich 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Fiend:
>
> Read his blog update - Claire is his wife.

and belayer . . . i see what he means in the blog, it's a lot to ask

very impressive, the words making it more so even to an outsider like myself and one so far away from that sort of climbing
 Nj 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C: This is an amazing route, and the hardest ascent of the year. Ok, so it is Bank Holiday w/e but still, it is VERY quiet out there and no other sites have really picked up about it.
This got me thinking, it is actually very cool for us climbers that most of the big news is instantly available, often with videos etc, even the boys like Big Up who make money from it put out teasers and it flies aound teh web in a jiffy. It kind of annoyed me that there are no pix or vid. up, even though the route was filmed. I don't live in the UK (along with quite a few billion others) and prolly won't get to see this unless someone puts it on youtube. The BBC is cool and all that, but they should get this footage on't'web I reckon... No one will know about it otherwise!
 tobyfk 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Nj:
> The BBC is cool and all that, but they should get this footage on't'web I reckon...

What: you are suggesting that a public organisation funded by regressive taxation should serve the public ... you're surely not serious!

 fimm 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:

I thought his comments on his blog about the psycological (sp?) aspect of doing the route were especially interesting. Wait till everyone gets back to work and am sure people will have lots to say....
 Toby S 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:

The man did very good!

Enoch Root 26 Aug 2007
In reply to tobyfk:

> What: you are suggesting that a public organisation funded by regressive taxation

It's not a tax, it's a charge. If you elect (as I do) not to have a telly, you don't pay.

Serpico 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Ropeboy:
> (In reply to Anonymous)
> [...]
>
> Seems odd that they are using a gri-gri with pro?
>
In his blog it says that his wife was belaying him on "the gully sprint rope". If some sprinting away from the crag's involved a gri gri is the weapon of choice as it's hands-free.

 tobyfk 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Enoch Root:

<wildly-off-topic> Many people argue the license fee is a form of regressive taxation, as most households are liable and the 'tax' is identical for all income levels. Ironically, you are also more likely to get away with not paying in higher-income neighbourhoods as Crapita's analysis finds fee-chasing to be more fruitful in poor areas (or so I read somewhere). </off-topic>
 omerta 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:

Have just looked at it on his blog....fuggin' amazing climb. Looks so eerie. I wish climbing had far more publicity. The people I talk to about it tend to go,

'Hmmm,' and turn away.

It's either fear or disinterest but as a physical activity, surely it should enrapture more of the public?
 ray 26 Aug 2007
In reply to tobyfk: interestingly, if you are over 80(i think) you dont have to pay anything at all, but if you are blind you have to pay half.
 Jeff25 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Nj:
> "I don't live in the UK (along with quite a few billion others) and prolly won't get to see this unless someone puts it on youtube. The BBC is cool and all that, but they should get this footage on't'web I reckon... No one will know about it otherwise!"

- Agree with you completely. Does anyone know about plans to get this onto a DVD or onto the net from the BBC?



OP Mike C 26 Aug 2007
In reply to Jeff25:

Richard Else was saying that footage would be shown on the BBC in a few weeks, & previously he'd said they were intending to get a DVD released of The Great Climb soon after the event. His comment on the BBC website about the film being called To Hell & Back would indicate this will be available to buy after it's transmission, that's his business after all.
 Banned User 77 27 Aug 2007
In reply to sarah79:
> (In reply to Mike C)
>
> Have just looked at it on his blog....fuggin' amazing climb. Looks so eerie. I wish climbing had far more publicity. The people I talk to about it tend to go,
>
> 'Hmmm,' and turn away.
>
> It's either fear or disinterest but as a physical activity, surely it should enrapture more of the public?


As a one off it may interest just for the uniqueness. As a regular news item it would flop. Climbing isn't a spectator sport. Do you want it to be anyway?
 Doug 27 Aug 2007
In reply to IainRUK: Not sure what the BBC are doing, when the live broadcast was cancelled the message on the web site said they were going to put some video of the preparations, etc on line 'soon' but then that message dissapeared and it now suggests they'll be a programme on the TV sometime in the future - of less interest to me as I can't watch UK TV but would have been able to see the video on the web.
 tony 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Doug:

I suspect plans for showing the climb are still pretty fluid - as of late Thursday afternoon, the BBC didn't know whether Dave would be successful, so they didn't know if they were going to have a programme of any kind, let alone what form it would take. Given that we've had a weekend between then and now, I'd be very surprised if any firm decisions have been taken. It's quite probable that Richard hasn't even viewed much of the film yet.
 omerta 27 Aug 2007
In reply to IainRUK:

I just don't think it gets enough coverage; I know not everyone will want to watch it, but there are people out there doing the most incredible feats. Perhaps as a one-off, as you say, yes.
OP Mike C 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:

I've emailed Richard Else asking if he can enlighten us here as to coverage of the climb.
 tony 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:

You probably won't get a reply today - I think he's away until tomorrow.
OP Mike C 27 Aug 2007
In reply to tony:

OK, cheers. Were you the "Tony" holding one of the ropes?
 tony 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:

Yup, that was me. An interesting experience.
Sarah Harding 27 Aug 2007
What I don't get is how Hells Lum is obvisouly a very difficult climb described as vertual death, yet when Dave walked away from Indian Face he said he didn't want to face death for the sake of it. Where's the difference in that? I don't get it...
 Norrie Muir 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Sarah Harding:
> What I don't get is how Hells Lum is obvisouly a very difficult climb described as vertual death, yet when Dave walked away from Indian Face he said he didn't want to face death for the sake of it. Where's the difference in that? I don't get it...

Dave took a bit longer than a breath between the statements, so the difference maybe time.
 Fiend 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Sarah Harding:

I suspect this first ascent is more meaningful to Dave than the 4th ascent of Indian Face. I also suspect he prefers the type of danger in this route (i.e. due to harder climbing rather than snappy rock).

More info here: https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=29070294&postID=6301255955394727425&isPopup=true
 JLS 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Sarah Harding:

>"I don't get it..."

The different style of holds ment he was more confident he'd not die on 'Hell and Back' than on I.F.
Anonymous 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Sarah Harding: good point
the only thing i can think of is that HL has more positive holds, which are less likely to fail (ie less 'objective' danger)
but why the higher grade?
Iain Forrest 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Sarah Harding:
From what he's blogged, it seems like the difference is that he reckoned the Indian Face carried a significant risk of death from something he had little control over (a hold snapping), whilst To Hell and Back would only result in death if he himself made a mistake - so it was under his own control.
It's a pretty amazing achievement, and it shows how much Dave's climbing means to him that he's willing to risk so much for it.
 Banned User 77 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Fiend: I think that is exactly it. I took it that he felt there would be some fortune needed to climb IF safey, where as this route was down to his own technique. A fall from either would probably be fateful but the risks from IF were more from rock failure than his own ability. I've liked his openess and honesty when attempting these routes and his feeling of guilt he expressed after Hells Lum.
 Banned User 77 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Iain Forrest: OK what you said
Serpico 27 Aug 2007
In reply to Anonymous:
> (In reply to Sarah Harding) good point
> the only thing i can think of is that HL has more positive holds, which are less likely to fail (ie less 'objective' danger)
> but why the higher grade?

Because it's physically harder.

 Bill Davidson 28 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:

Dave Brown @ Hotaches has blogged up a good account here

http://hotaches.blogspot.com/2007/08/great-climb-to-hell-and-back.html
Richard Else 28 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C: We'll be letting you know when the programme will be shown in due course. Still some more filming to do... expect something in about 5 - 6 weeks.

Richard Else.
 catt 28 Aug 2007
In reply to Richard Else:

Looking forward to seeing this. If that's the right term from the two Dave's accounts. They make really interesting reading.

Congratulations on the new route Dave Mac.
 Doug 28 Aug 2007
In reply to Richard Else: The original programme was scheduled to be on the web (meaning those of us outside the UK could watch), we were then told that some video would be on the web (message now deleted) - will the programme be available outside the UK ?
 aln 29 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C: Didn't Lynn Hill take a groundfall from 86ft and walk away unscathed?
 tony 29 Aug 2007
In reply to aln:

I don't know what Lynn Hill fell onto when she took her 86ft fall, but falling on To Hell and Back would have been particularly grim - the bottom of the gully is rocky and spiky and generally the kind of thing that's hard enough to walk on, let alone fall onto.
OP Mike C 29 Aug 2007
In reply to tony:

I presume from the blog Claire was set up to run if Dave came off, what were the odds of this working?
 Enty 29 Aug 2007
In reply to aln:
> (In reply to Mike C) Didn't Lynn Hill take a groundfall from 86ft and walk away unscathed?


IIRC Lynn Hill took a big one at Buoux from a belay becaues she'd forgot to tie in.

The Ent ™
 tobyfk 29 Aug 2007
In reply to Enty:

Fall was off Styx wall and partially broken by trees. I think she also talked of managing to optimise her landing posture in mid-air somehow? Superhuman obviously ...

 tony 29 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:
> (In reply to tony)
>
> I presume from the blog Claire was set up to run if Dave came off, what were the odds of this working?

That was the plan - I was on the rope with the dodgy skyhook just before the crux, Claire was on the 'secure' rope on the good gear, much lower. I didn't work out the distances, but if he'd come off the crux and the skyhook had ripped, I don't think Claire would have been able to move quick enough or far enough to take in the necessary slack onto the good gear. Very relieved we never had to find out whether the plan would work.
Anonymous 29 Aug 2007
In reply to tony:
> (In reply to aln)
>
> the bottom of the gully is rocky and spiky and generally the kind of thing that's hard enough to walk on, let alone fall onto.

if he thought there was any chance of falling off, he would have worn a helmet?



OP Mike C 29 Aug 2007
In reply to tony:

Scary stuff! Was he seconded up it? If not how was he belayed for the second pitch, did someone ab onto the belay?
 tony 29 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:
> (In reply to tony)
>
> Scary stuff! Was he seconded up it? If not how was he belayed for the second pitch, did someone ab onto the belay?

The original plan for the Live Climb had been for Cubby to second the route, which would have been a fantastic historical moment. Unfortunately, Cubby got injured so that plan went out the window.

For the second pitch, I had to get out the bottom of the gully, along the bottom of Hell's Lum crag, up past the burn and along the top of the crag and then I abbed onto the belay - it was that or jumarring up, and if we'd gone for the latter option, we would have finished even later than we did!
Sarah Harding 29 Aug 2007
In reply to Anonymous:

hmm...
 JLS 29 Aug 2007
In reply to tony:

I thought Claire was more of a distance runner, couldn't you get Colin Jackson he's with the BBC.

He'd start running on the A of Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh.
 seagull 29 Aug 2007
In reply to tobyfk:
> (In reply to Enty)
>
> Fall was off Styx wall and partially broken by trees. I think she also talked of managing to optimise her landing posture in mid-air somehow? Superhuman obviously ...

She was very very lucky. Anyone who's seen what the landing's like on that hillside below Styx Wall will know this. You have about a 60/40 chance of landing on rocks/plants and fortunately Lynn got the 40. The trees broke her fall but it wouldn't have made any difference if she'd not got lucky on the landing. She didn't even break anything IIRC, amazing really.

Sam M 29 Aug 2007
In reply to seagull:

I dont think she walked away and I am sure she knackered her elbow and her arse.

Sam
 tony 29 Aug 2007
In reply to seagull:

Broke a foot apparently, according to this according to one interview:

In 1989 Hill fell 30 meters--the length of the Styx wall near her home in Boux, France. She had completed the climb without tying properly into her rope. Because her fall was broken by a tree, she got off relatively lightly, suffering a broken foot, punctures in her shoulder and chest, a dislocated elbow, and stitches in her nose, shoulder, and chin.

Not exactly unscathed.
 seagull 29 Aug 2007
In reply to tony:

It puts in in perspective that Rachel Farmer fell almost exactly the same distance on a different part of the same crag with a similar landing and was killed instantly. Lynn was very very lucky.
 220bpm 30 Aug 2007
In reply to Mike C:

Anyway, back OT...

Congrats to DM, another bon effort.

The blog accounts on Dave's site and the hotaches team make for sweaty palmed reading. Just incredible!

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