UKC

Possibly the wrong place to post this as I realise it’s not a question about rock, but I’m wondering why we don’t grass climb in this country?

There are tons of rolling mountainous regions in mid and south wales where I most often frequent where steep scrambly rocky ground just doesn’t exist, and ascents are only done by walking paths. When walking I’ve often looked down a steep slope and wondered why ascending them is not a more common practice. I understand that protection is difficult to achieve in turf, and that from a mechanical point of view there are no holds by which to ascend other than the natural friction of the grass/ turf itself. But that’s never stopped climbers before and a combination of evolving techniques, technology, and boldness are what establish new methods and new routes. Sometimes even new disciplines, and this I suppose is what I’m wondering. Does literally nobody in the UK at least grass climb. Or do people actually do this already?

Ive tried to research grass/ turf climbing and Wikipedia has a tiny article suggesting it’s more common in Europe, and was more popular back in the day of hemp ropes around waists but there seems to be nothing about it in the modern day? I was watching an episode from the 1980s about the Royal Marines mountain leaders and in one of the episodes an officer refering to one of the students doing a night climb and says something like ‘he’s nearly at the top now and will be getting his turf axes out to get up the last bit’. I have googled turf axes to no avail but they must be a thing. Can only assume ice axes were being referred to as turf axes as that’s what they were being used for. I would imagine that crampons and axes would make for the most suitable tools for climbing big grassy slopes, and some sort of ground stake would be about the best protection possible.

Nowadays there’s probably an ethical point to be made about this given the drive in recent years by the BMC about not climbing on unfrozen turf in winter to avoid damage. I see how that would also apply to grass climbing but maybe to a lesser extent. Certainly conservation was far less a concern 10 or 20 years ago, and nobody was doing it then, so it doesn’t explain why grass climbing isn’t a thing here.

If anybody has any ideas or knowledge about this I’d be fascinated to hear them.

I was just wondering the same thing myself

The history of grass climbing in the United Kingdom is intertwined with the nation's rich tradition of outdoor activities and appreciation for nature. While rock climbing and mountaineering have deep roots in the UK, grass climbing emerged as a distinct pursuit, offering a more accessible and serene alternative.

In the early 20th century, as interest in outdoor recreation grew, individuals sought new ways to engage with the natural landscape. Grass climbing gained popularity among those who appreciated the simplicity and beauty of ascending hills covered in lush vegetation. The Lake District, with its rolling hills and picturesque meadows, became an early hotspot for grass climbing enthusiasts.

During the mid-20th century, grass climbing evolved from a casual pastime to a recognized outdoor activity. Enthusiasts organized informal gatherings and shared their experiences, contributing to the development of techniques and safety practices specific to climbing on grassy slopes. The practice attracted individuals seeking a more contemplative and less adrenaline-fueled experience compared to traditional rock climbing.

In the late 20th century, as environmental awareness grew, grass climbing aligned with the ethos of sustainable and low-impact outdoor activities. Climbers began to emphasize Leave No Trace principles, ensuring minimal impact on the delicate ecosystems of grass-covered landscapes. This eco-conscious approach helped integrate grass climbing into the broader movement of responsible outdoor recreation.

The 21st century saw an increased recognition of grass climbing as a recreational activity suitable for people of all ages and fitness levels. Local clubs and organizations dedicated to grass climbing sprouted across the UK, fostering a sense of community among enthusiasts. These groups organized events, workshops, and conservation initiatives, further solidifying the place of grass climbing within the outdoor recreation scene.

The UK's diverse topography, ranging from the gentle hills of the South Downs to the rugged landscapes of the Scottish Highlands, provided ample opportunities for grass climbing enthusiasts to explore and appreciate the varied natural beauty of the country. The activity became a means of connecting with the UK's cultural and environmental heritage, reflecting a desire to maintain a harmonious relationship with the land.

As the popularity of grass climbing continues to grow, it remains a testament to the enduring appeal of outdoor pursuits that harmonize with nature. The history of grass climbing in the UK reflects not only the evolution of a recreational activity but also the nation's ongoing commitment to preserving its natural treasures for future generations of climbers and nature enthusiasts.

Interesting. That reads like something from chatgpt or another AI platform but if you wrote that yourself from your own knowledge then take that as a compliment.

I’d like to know more about the clubs and organisations dedicated to grass climbing, because I’ve searched high and low for info about it and it’s practices, equipment etc and have not found anything, let alone found groups who go out and do it.

This was really big in Cornwall a long time ago, an early pioneer was Paddy Murphy from Cork who was into climbing trees and grass. So much so that 20,000 Cornishmen adopted him and renamed him Tree Lawny. They even sing about him to this day,

Grass had a big resurgence in the sixties

Judging by some of these responses I’d say it’s still very popular lol.

I mean... I've definitely pitched one or two steep, grassy top outs, but those pitches were certainly not the highlight of the route. Have you been at the Christmas whiskey or are you in earnest?

Some of the top outs at Millstone might qualify in this category.

Not sure of the details, but I think some of the Marilynbagging crowd have used crampons on steep grass on a couple of the more awkward islands - Boreray in St Kilda and Muldoanich off the southern end of Barra.

IMHO it's TTP. But you probably know that.

As I rockclimb less I increasingly enjoy scrambling with mixes of earth, grass and other vegetation with the occasional rock. Some small plants are absolutely bomber. Often apparently untravelled by others.

I think older Swanage guides mentioned usefulness of ice axes when topping out on some climbs but tbh I think most people now do it unaided or use a preplaced rope. Try The Claw in Devon ( Ridges of England and Wales, Bailey) and visit the madasafish website.

No as bizarre as it sounds I’m totally serious. Think of the Brecon Beacons where practically no climbing can be done (at least not on the beacons themselves). But there are stacks of long and high concave slopes, with steepness of every variation up to and including the vertical. I’m genuinely wondering why these areas have not been climbed and explored. There must be more to it than simply the lack of protection, and I can’t believe it’s purely for conservation reasons. Perhaps it’s just no fun but there’s plenty of far less enjoyable activities that people do which have managed to catch on. Perhaps I’m an idiot but aside from the fact it’s totally unconventional is there any reason why somebody couldn’t pursue this as a new means to explore the hills.

Yes, it's chatGPT. I asked it to write about the history of grass climbing in the UK.

Have you considered that it's maybe just not a thing and not a thing for good reasons? You mentioned above that it might not be fun. Having found myself on deep, steep, unfrozen turf with axes and crampons I can confirm that it is very much not fun and not something I wanted to make a regular activity.

Have you tried it yourself?

nah, Millstone top outs are more rubble than grass, although the resultant emotional response is similar 😁

Try The Wick (VS 4b) or similar at Ravensdale; hint - reserve a dry day.

I can imagine it being the sort of thing you'd do once. I mean really steep grassy slopes would be unstable and dangerous and the less steep ones a slog. Hard to see the long term appeal.

Swanage has plenty of near vertical grass and mud at the top of the routes if that is your thing.

For full excitement, best done on a damp day in the spring when the grass will have lots of sleepy Adders to disturb.

Reporting in from mid-wales. We do a lot of grass climbing, heather climbing, bilberry climbing and mud climbing over here. My personal favourite is woodrush climbing - it's particularly insecure and slippy.

Maybe we should point Kestrel at Pencoed Pillar...

The top pitch of Heart of the Sun at Baggy fits the bill

I think this may have enough excitement on grass to amuse you. https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/the_exmoor_coast_traverse-1242/

Terry madasafish Cheek has now spawned a group of adventurers who tend not to give a toss about the finer things in life(skin, sleep, food). Beware some of the routes do feature a reliance on rock, but those tend to have been put up by Martin Crocker(a follower of the Madasafish philosophy for a time) and are therefore mostly beyond mere mortals.

Can I suggest you either contact some of the names mentioned on this site to learn the secrets or serve 20 years in the SAS whilst maintaining a sense of humour. This is not a place for beginners(or tolls or chatbots). Dr evil of this parish ended up with hypothermia, etc etc.

Get on it!

Yes, although it sounds like they're a bit of a connoisseur and maybe Pencoed Pillar (HVD) would be too much of a trade route. The area around Dinas has some excellent potential for borderline suicidal explorers - Cribin Fawr, Craig Portas and Craig Maesglas (summer) particularly.

I think this may have enough excitement on grass to amuse you. https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/the_exmoor_coast_traverse-1242/

Terry madasafish Cheek has now spawned a group of adventurers who tend not to give a toss about the finer things in life(skin, sleep, food). Beware some of the routes do feature a reliance on rock, but those tend to have been put up by Martin Crocker(a follower of the Madasafish philosophy for a time) and are therefore mostly beyond mere mortals.

Can I suggest you either contact some of the names mentioned on this site to learn the secrets or serve 20 years in the SAS whilst maintaining a sense of humour. This is not a place for beginners(or tolls or chatbots). Dr evil of this parish ended up with hypothermia, etc etc.

Get on it!

'As the popularity of grass climbing continues to grow, it remains a testament to the enduring appeal of outdoor pursuits that harmonize with nature.'

My own experiences with grass climbing, particularly above sea-cliffs such as Swanage, haven't felt much like harmonising with nature.

More like stabbing frantically with a nut-key, while trying to stave off thoughts of impending mortality.

Mick  

I was about to suggest that!  I actually took a perverse pleasure in seconding the 2nd pitch (which is 50 metres long) without actually touching rock.  The pitch after was covered in deep growth of what I think might be the woodrush that pancakeandchips refers to - afterwards it reverted to merely vegetated rock climbing, as opposed to vegetation climbing with the odd bit of rock.  It was fun, but it was at least properly dry when I did it (if it was wet, it might be worth changing into fell shoes for these pitches!).  In addition, the rock that does appear is generally good  solid stuff that takes gear, which certainly wouldn't be the case in the Brecon Beacons. 

On this subject, I remember an article (by Colin Wells I think) in one of the magazines about 20 years ago about summer gully climbing, which basically celebrated all the things that normally repel climbers - slime, waterfalls pouring down your arms etc.  It was a good read, though I think I've lost it in a clear-out of my old magazines sadly.  Anyway, the last featured route wasn't a gully at all - it was High Pasture (M) on Glyder Fawr - and it was put in there for the perversity of doing a route that was simply padding up a very steep ramp of grass the whole way up the cliff. 

Rick

Because those faces are collapsing piles of shale and loose rock, commonly formed by landslips. They would be like climbing Breakaway (XS 5b). There is a reason why people only climb those faces when they're frozen together. 

Is that known as a Greenpoint?

Thanks - it seems the consensus is that unless properly frozen then truly steep grass slopes are just not suitable or safe for moving on. I’ve not had the pleasure of topping out by frantically jabbing my nut key into the ground for dear life so probably can’t appreciate why this is so obvious to most of you, but not me. I’ve not tried grass climbing and have no real compulsion to do it, so this is more to satisfy my own curiosity and wondering if there was a reason other than that grass is slippy, and wet turf gives way. It would appear it is as simple as that.

As for Martin Crocker I’m familiar with his 7 part guide to climbing in the bb national park. It’s an excellent guidebook and Ive visited a lot the areas he writes about previously although I was still surprised at some of the more remote bits and how much climbable rock he was able to find in such an apparently green and friable landscape.

The South face of Drws Bach in the Aran has always held a strange attraction. Nearly a thousand foot of grassy ribs and gullies steepening to almost vertical. What's not to like?

Last route I ever did was this delightful 300m of grass (slope on right), following a couple of pitches at around diff off the boat.  Yes, marilyn bagging crowd.  I wore orienteering shoes.

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1264438

Grass climbing by men in brightly coloured clothing can be seen every other week or so at Bonnyrigg Rose Football Club. 

Yes, Swanage was my first thought when I read the title! Think some of the old guidebooks referred to various "styles" of topping out - I certainly remember the guy that first took me there properly referring to axes and crampons and belays being off bushes and Warthogs!

And the rabbit paths at the top are most slippery in rock boots!

The comments for Avernus (HVS 4c) tell you all you need to know. 8 pitches of terrifying grass and vegetation with 1 short rock step. Three stars.

Wow, that looks dead dodgy.  https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1264438

I've done the north face of peny y fan in summer unroped without pointy things which is nearly all very steep and quite insecure grass with occasional earthy rubble and rare actual rock. I wouldn't do it again although it was oddly funny at the time, probably as it was so rediculous.  We called the sport vegeling. The ground we covered has grade I - II winter routes on it.

https://www.summitpost.org/north-face-of-pen-y-fan/282048

Haha well this is exactly the sort of thing I was wondering about. Surely somebody must have ventured onto that ground and it would seem you atleast have done. Judging by a lot of the responses so far I am sounding barmy for even considering this sort of thing as an option so it’s gratifying to know I’m not the only person to have considered if it was feasible. I’m assuming you just decided to head up there one day out of curiosity/ madness? Or was it for a bet? Lol

I figured that the most similar overlap to this would be winter mountaineering, and it looks as though the main reason such routes are ignored in all but frozen conditions is due to the ground being incredibly sketchy when unfrozen.

went there for a walk and we decided to see what the winter routes were like then carried on, the worst bit was in the middle when I had to use a sharp rock to stop me slowly slipping down small muddy shallow gully with a boulder at the bottom of it to drop off. The main issue would be with roping it that not only was there hardly any protection but the belays would have been shite without stakes also, and some probably shite with stakes as the grassy earth moved easily on the (I assume) rock ledges they sat on. Many of the holds were down the back of the grass between it and rock behind, the grass was a foot or so wide and moved. It certainly was pretty dangerous. I would have been really scared at times if I could have stopped laughing!

About 2 years ago i was walking with my wife around carrauntoohil while doing the coomloughra horseshoe. Crossing the beenkeragh ridge somehow we found ourselves on the side of the ridge above the corrie lake (lough cummeenoughter). Not something to repeat! Grass is slippy. 

The top part of The Green Slab (HVS 4c) at Gogarth does too

Done it twice. I enjoy that sort of thing 

Does anyone even do the crux pitch of The Strand (E2 5b) now?

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

My first thought when 'grass climbing' was mentioned. What a disappointment - we were looking for rock climbing!

Chris

Surprised no body has mentioned "High Pasture" M on Glydr Fawr Guide book describes it as "A narrow rake clothed in a mantle of green where only goats will wish to browse."

On The Edge did a piece on it some years back

No mention yet of "The Long Hope" (E11), with the HVG (Hard, Very Grassy) pitch #3?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2016/03/the_long_hope_e11-70358 (skip the video ahead to 2m45)

I did above!  Based on a recollection of the same magazine article, though it hasn't tempted me to do it yet.  I wonder if it's more or less scary than Grey Arete (the only thing I have done up there).

Rick

I did it much more recently (2018) and had the benefit of lots of online beta, so had an idea of what to expect and wasn't disappointed.  I've sometimes wondered - if Ken Wilson and John Sumner had chosen Pencoed Pillar rather than Will o' the  Wisp as the mid-Wales entry for Classic Rock, would PP now be a clean, classic mountain route? It's certainly a much more impressive line and cliff than Will o' the Wisp.  (In current conditions, Table Direct/Cyfrwy Arete is better than either IMO.)

Rick

The most 'out there' grass climbing I've ever done was the obvious gully on Bloodstone Hill above Girdil Bothy on Rum. Solo on my 60th birthday, saw a Whitetail Eagle from above. Wandered the hills in the mist and then came down to a night of Champagne and Laphroaig in the bothy.

Yes, but you can stop for tea on Will o' The Wisp.  Once on there there was enough vegetation for the team following us to actually brew up on the Tea Ledge and set fire to it.

Maybe not grass "climbing" but I've certainly done my fair share of grass scrambling. Lots of choss-bothering in gorges and gullies in Snowdonia. Esgair Gully (winter g1) on Foel Goch in the Glyderau was particularly verdant:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/3471136034/in/photostream/lightbo...

Get on Big John. It has 4 very enjoyable grass pitches at the start and you get to belay on Drummond’s old ab rope

Hmmmm, I don't know if it would be  physically possible for PP to get the amount of traffic necessary to keep it clean. Who knows what's underneath the lower 80m of vegetation either? Could be a blank slab, or just mud all the way down...

I've heard speculation that Craig Cau is way more vegetated now than it used to be when a lot of the routes were first climbed, maybe due to it being warmer these days with shorter, warmer and wetter winters. It'd be interesting to get some old good quality photos and try to make a comparison.

It's a proper adventure venturing onto those cliffs though - it doesn't really matter whether or not John Sumner was there 50 years ago, you can still feel like you're in uncharted territory.

When I stayed there about 50 years ago the library in FRCC's hut at Brackenclose had an old book which advised carrying an ice axe at all times in order to tackle steep grass. It was illustrated by an etching of a gentleman, in tweeds of course, swarming up an old-fashioned long axe.  The author admitted that you could expect to get odd looks when carrying this in the streets of Keswick in summer.

I've done a few adventurous pure grass climbs (as opposed to grassy rock climbs) in the Peak, near Castleton.

Winnats Pass has some steep and excellent quality grass/moss on its north-facing slopes… no need for any technical climbing gear but you have to kick steps and trust in what you’re using for your hands on the steeper sections. Bear in mind that an unroped fall might have serious consequences…

In the same area, the northern slopes of Wyn Hill and Lose Hill also have impressive terrain for this activity, with the added bonus that you’ll almost certainly be able to pick up numerous hats and thermos flasks that people walking the Edale Skyline have dropped over the edge…

Pete.
 

Edit: Back Tor is even steeper…

The correct term for climbing steep grass is "tussocking". As for scrambling there are generally grade 1, grade 2 and grade 3 tussocking. Grade 3 tussocking involves moderate climbing moves using tussocks as hand holds.

I don't think this is what the BMC meant by improving grass roots climbing

Meanwhile, near Durness...

Back on Boreray

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1439988 

There is a newborn lamb there. Fortunately the sheep there are really chilled despite being left untended for 130 odd years.

Nothing worse than a thread which has a beginning, a middle, but no end. So my curiosity got the better of me and I ventured out into some of the steepest sided mountains I could find to see why nobody goes up them. In a nutshell my findings were 65% underwhelming, and about 35% hmm maybe there’s something in this.

I spent a day having a go up a range of steep gully’s, and grassy ribs. For most of them I donned crampons helmet and a stubby (as in short) ice axe. Yes I did feel like a massive knobber and consequently I sought out the quietest and steepest of areas. My thoughts as follows:

- All the slopes are by their nature convex. Meaning that the first third is basically just steepish walking, the second third is sort of fun but doesn’t feel steep enough to warrant gearing up, and the final third can actually vary from strangely great fun with minimal jeopardy, to actually quite scary looking 500m down the side of a hill with some quite uncertain and tumbly consequences. The reality of this is that the ‘sweet spot’ is actually quite small. By this I mean the window where you’re climbing steep enough terrain to warrant the extra kit, and it’s exhilarating, but not sketchy or boring. The bit in between is the fun bit and on convex slopes doesn’t really last all that long making the whole effort seem slightly pointless.

- for technique basically on all fours, front pointing into the grass/ spongey tussocks, lazy X/ quadrupedal. Surprisingly rock solid feeling with g12s and an axe in low dagger. Trouble comes when there’s rock protruding, or under the greenery as you get towards the tops. Then it becomes quite a lot more sketchier.

- I experimented with bashing an msr snow stake into the turf as protection which seemed to hold well, and also one of those 30cm curly ground screw dog anchor jobbies. Surprisingly they both held well and considering all the frictions involved of a steep slope tumble I’d feel pretty confident of one catching me to prevent a big fall downhill.

I can definitely now see why it’s never caught on lol but for what it’s worth it’s quite fun to just go and muck about on the steep and unwalked areas of the hills so I will be doing more of it when I'm bored. It sort of makes me feel like a kid exploring again and we should all do more of that stuff!

I was going to suggest that it was purely a matter of having the right gear - there's not really any reason why steep grass should be a problem with front points and axes, assuming the protection aspect can be dealt with.  Rock climbers don't like it, but they're not using the correct gear.  It's no different to snow - I happily trotted up a blue ski run in snowshoes a couple of weeks ago, but the three people who tried it in trainers took an unwanted 150m trip down the mountain on their arses!  It should be perfectly valid training for winter climbing.  I guess the biggest issue is wearing out the inherently weak 'crag'.

I assume you meant 'concave' rather than 'convex'?

Great update, thanks. Out of interest what hills did you try this on?

Good effort. I think.  😉 

Yes I do what a plonker!

I think I'd like to go to Boreray, looks suitably remote.

Exmoor coast tends to be more convex than most

I think it gets a star or two in the winter guidebook IIRC.