UKC

I consider myself an optimist and like to think I'll be able to get out to Arran at some point in the near future in a post covid world. Until then, I will of course wait until it is acceptable to do so. Like many of you, I am planning trips as I have recently moved to Glasgow.

I have a long weekend in Arran planned with my girlfriend where we will head up through Glen Rosa, camp near Cir Mhor for the night. The following day we will climb the Sou'Wester Slabs and camp (ideally in the same location). Then the final day we will climb the "Evening Traverse" on Goatfell and camp (ideally in the same location).

As I am new to Scotland, I am unsure of the norms with wild camping, so I have some questions...

Where would you recommend camping to climb Sou'Wester Slabs in the Glen?

Would it be normally safe to leave a camp site set up? Will people steal our stuff?

Is it considered bad etiquette to leave your camp site pitched while you are off climbing?

Are small camp fires considered bad etiquette when camping in Scotland?

Is it normal practice to bring your own firewood or is it readily available in the glen?

I really appreciate the help in advance. Looking forward to your responses

Best bet is to deck your tent and hide the gear under a bush or some such with a dated note taped on it so no-one thinks you have forgotten it/ abandoned it.

Camp fires are always considered as bad etiquette while wild camping in the UK, I suspect it would also not be allowed within the confines of the Land Reform Act which grants the freedom of access in Scotland. The key phrase is "Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints".

Last question is irrelevant as you won't have a fire.

In addition to what spenser said, while a theft seems fairly unlikely, I have heard a tale of climbers, high on the Rosa Pinnacle, looking down to see a herd of cattle enthusiastically demolishing their tent...

You can camp easily in good level ground within about ½ mile or so of Cir Mhor. I can't remember much about the site we used which means it must have been fine.

Just to reiterate and emphasise what Spenser has said: small camp fires are completely unacceptable. In dry summer conditions they pose a fire risk, and they will always leave a big black ashy mark on the ground, in contravention of the principle of 'leaving nothing but footprints'. (So use a camping gaz, methylated spirits, petrol or paraffin stove.) The overriding principle of wild camping is that there should be no trace of your having been there when you leave. Absolutely nothing.

(If you've been there for a few days you will leave a paler patch of grass, but that will have disappeared within a few hours.)

We camped pretty much beneath Sou’Wester Slabs I think.

There are some really nice camping spots very close to the climbing. 

I would recommend this spot, if you can find it: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10164644856135311&set=pob.559545310. It's easy to spot on the walk in to the base of the pinnacle. 

If you can climb VS on grit, I'd really recommend South Ridge Direct. Most of the climbing is around Dif-Severe but there are 3 pitches of VS. Sou'Wester Slabs is nice but the ridge direct is impeccable. 

Midges; forget any vision of sitting by your fake fire outside your tent, watching the sun set together etc.. 

Yes, sadly the OP ignores two main issues: the midges in the summer months of May to August, and the Scottish weather. 'One might not necessarily be able to carry out that two-day climbing schedule as planned.'

This spot looks great Paul, and you climbed up and came back down to your camp gear all in the same place? I want to have as little weight as possible while climbing up.

The chances of your gear getting nicked are miniscule, I'd have no qualms about leaving a tent pitched while I climbed.

On the first day we walked in, stashed gear under a boulder, did SRD and put our tent up in the afternoon. Next day we took it down in the morning and stashed again while we climbed the two Classic Rock routes before walking out in the evening. Where the tent was, you can basically only see if from the climbing, so I wouldn't have had an issue with leaving it pitched, just thought we'd save a job later. On the second day we experienced the midgies and agree with the above comments about the camping. We saw one chap sat outside his tent cooking up, looking very glum with his headnet on. The picture is of me trying to find some respite on top of the boulder from the little fuckers whilst we were packing up. 

Given the slog in, you will want to keep kit to a minimum anyway, and all your expensive shiny kit should be on your harness. It's a long old walk in, and most people just going into Cir Mhor for a walk will turn around long before the big boulders near the crag where you can pitch up. I would say the chances of you getting your kit robbed are non-existent. 

Cheers for all the input everyone

 
I do see that the land reforms act says that lighting fires is not allowed unless all traces are removed, which makes a lot of sense to me! Would everyone agree that it is impossible to not leave a trace of the wildfire in Scotland?

 
In California the standard campfire practice would be to dig a hole and surround it with rocks, bury it over the next day. I'm not entirely sure of the details but the thinking is that what remains after a fire is just fertile high carbon soil and it is a matter of time before it is utilized by nature.

Another thing I am seeing a lot is talk of the dreaded midge. My main reason for asking about lighting a fire is to repel the midges as I imagine it works the same as it does to repel mosquitos, really well

Also regarding weather, a fire is great for drying off wet shoes and clothes should it rain. I imagine it rains nearly every day at some point in the more coastal spots, even if it is only a small rolling shower. Just something I am thinking about.

Cheers everyone!

Why? There might well be a breeze.

Yes, we left our tent each day for about 5 days, with no worries at all.

The fire risk in moorland Britain is very high in dry weather. Many massive fires that take days to put out (e.g in the Peak District) as started with just one cigarette end or a piece of broken glass. Please forget the idea of lighting any fire at all.

You'll see from my picture that the glen is not festooned with suitable fuel for a fire, regardless of whether it is a good idea or not. You will probably find that you won't fancy carrying any wood in once you feel the weight of a rucksack full of climbing and camping gear with a multiple-hour uphill hike ahead of you. 

The midge experience is very different to the mosquito experience. Picture the black flies in Maine, if you have experienced them (only much, much worse). 

If you camp in the corrie under SW slabs you're quite high up so will usually get a breeze therefore no midges. 

Campfires don't stop you getting bitten. Repellent and a hood do.

Midges can be a bit of nuisance but they're not like Alaskan mosquitos. 

Its been some years since I've camped in Glen Rosa but I've never taken my tent down during the day, either there or anywhere else for that matter, and never had anything stolen. I do of course always take my wallet with me.

It's a brilliant route by the way. Possibly the best for its grade that I've climbed. I hope you enjoy it.

To echo a few others:-

Very unlikely your kit would get nicked camping off the path, up the top of Glen Rosa. Personally, don't see any problem leaving a small tent pitched during the day while you're up the hill. Arguably, may be safer to do so rather than bagging it up, just in case someone well-meaning finds it and  removes it, thinking it's lost/abandoned. That's probably unlikely though.

As has been said, any fire up there would definitely be bad form, but leaving that aside, for a fire big enough to dry wet kit you would need to carry up a ridiculous amount of wood. Tbh, if it was me, if it turned wet enough that my kit needed force drying, I would probably think about bailing, or in any case, not trying a route on the Rosa slabs!

Good camping by the stream close to Cir Mhor. Take plenty of midge repellant and a tick removal tool. SW Slabs and South Ridge Direct are must dos. Pagoda ridge is a great route too.

Walked in, started to pitch tent, midges came out, we walked back out - don't underestimate them, bloody grim 

Midges are less intense at the Glen rosa campsite, it's an energetic 1.5hrs to crag iirc

Arran is well worth the visit. Just a beautiful spot (have pictures of west flank in my gallery). And as previous posts indicate, sou wester slabs look pretty on pictures, once your in fornt of the thing your eyes will be cuaght much more by the ridge and the other lines. The camping site at Glen Rosa is very laid back, the only thing to keep in mind are of course the midges. I mean really, they are intense but luckiliy they really dislike sun, so you can go even in midge season for the climb but dont expect to relax at the picturistique river at the end of the day.  Near Cir Mhor i remember seeing some improvised shelters. Fire is bad etiquette even though you will likely see people at Glen Rosa campsite with a fire in high season. 

Don't let the midges put you off. Just take and use liberal quantities of an effective repellent, applying it as soon as you see the first midge. Some people like a head net too. The midges will still swarm around but won't bite. Obviously better they weren't there, but just try to ignore them. In my experience, people who make a great fuss about midges don't use repellent effectively. 

Best camping I've done there was bivvying up on the grassy col between A'Chir and Cir Mhor. Very pleasant location and no midges/ clegs at all due to a light breeze (altititude 2500ft or so). 

On that trip I was with a mate Steve who did constant early shifts as a bus mechanic. He was unable to sleep past 6am on the second morning and tried to wake me up but I was having none of it and told him to go forth and multiply. While off exploring the summit area, a call of nature hurried him into a cave formed by granite blocks. Hearing footsteps approaching his granite cludgie, and expecting me, he shouted, 'Dave come and see the size of this shite I've done!" only to look out and find a startled couple on a very early morning ascent of the peak. 

There was a very tense silence and then all eyes fell to a pair of ancient discarded briefs near the cave entrance. "they're no mine!" he protested after them they walked away.

Theres plenty places to camp below the Rosa pinnacle. There is also a good bivy boulder near the lip of the Coire. There are no cattle in Glen Rosa but occasionly through the years maybe up to lower bend in the Glen.

If doing SWS do the South ridge finish, its a good finish. If not then you can abb to the top of the west flank route initial chimney where there is a further abb point.

Evening traverse is a bit of a ramble to the second terrace. Try to just stick to clean slabs till the second terrace. Once there the route finding and climbing is much better.

If you've applied enough repellent for that to be true

1. Your face will melt off

2. The swarming will be unbearable anyway

This is totally impossible, unless you're one of a small minority of people who aren't bothered by them. Some people react badly to the bites, which are near-impossible to avoid, but almost everyone finds midgy conditions unbearable and will have to get in theor tent and zip it up to avoid them. Many will do the sensible thing and bail if there is no breeze.

Nonsense. 

No it won't. Especially now there are effective non-deet repellents such as Smidge.

Once you have got used to the fact that they do not bite if you have applied ample repellent to all exposed areas of skin, I find it possible to pretty much ignore them - I think a lot of the dislike of the swarming and crawling over you is just anticipation of bites.

Fair enough, if you react badly to the bites, there is more at stake from the odd bite.

But most people just get the itching. I know some people who don't even get any itching from the bites and still complain a lot!

And, as I said, these are the people who refuse to use repellent properly and just get on with it - I've even been with people who complain bitterly but havn't put on any repellent at all! I take the attitude of not letting the bastards win. When I fail to put on adequate repellent in anticipation and get bitten, I feel more annoyed with myself than with the midges.

Don't get me wrong, I hate midges, but I just don't think they are as big a problem as a lot of people make out.

Funny how a topic about camping in Glen Rosa ends up all about getting eaten alive by midges. Ah the joys of camping on Arran.

I just don't think people should let midges put them off the joys of climbing on Arran; getting eaten alive is optional.

I would defo agree with finishing up the ridge and walking off west down to the shoulder and obvious path down. On our second day we tried skirting around to the East after Sou'Wester Slabs to ab off and do Labyrinth. The scramble around was pretty sketchy (we stayed roped up and moved together, putting the odd bit of gear in. It's a grassy terrace with a death drop, so not ideal solo). We found a block with a bit of (really tatty) tat around it and just made it to the east gully on a pair of 50s. After Labyrinth we tried to descend the east side of the pinnacle in the gully and ended up having to do a couple of dodgy abs off old tat on blocks and spikes and some chossy waterfall down-climbs towards the bottom to get back to the top of the glen. I would take plenty of 7mm tat, a knife and a couple of mallions if I were to do it again. 

Some of the grass in the glen is remarkably well groomed for tents (deer possibly, if there aren't cows or sheep?). Almost like a putting green. The grass we camped on behind the boulder in that picture was pristine. 

There is definitely as easy way round here (Old East route?) that traverses grass ledges rightwards towards Labyrinth with only a short, 10 ft rock step down at the end...

I did the same to escape doing Labyrinth!

Camping in glen Rosa is the only time ever I've felt the need to try and eat whilst wearing a midge net....

It was a popular spot and probably the best in Fionn Choire. 

I have done the side escape only once. We always did the two abbs down west Flank route. It saves you loads of time and quite a few routes finish at this point. (Base of three tier chimney). I think I down climbed Old east once. I did solo up it to get to Bluff. Its pretty unpleasant.

Oh Labyrinth is a cracker! My partner may not agree with that though. The chimney was gripping!

Yeah there might be a better way down; I think we followed the description in GL's Scottish Rock for the decent, which was probably a mistake. Incidentally, the description for Labyrinth in that book is also well off the mark. We used the one on UKC and it actually made sense, unlike the guidebook. 

I still only have the Alastair Walkers guide which I bought when it came out. I started off with the old burgundy guide(I think 60s maybe 50s) in the 80s that had very few routes in it. I remember sou wester slabs face had only 3 routes in the guide. Forth wall, SW slabs and sickle. Never got round to leading sickle but did climb the main pitch messing about with a fixed rope. Stepping through the numerous trickles of water. 

If you want a base for both climbs your probably best camping in the glen close to the where the path splits to the saddle. There are a couple of nice spots you will pass and just shortly up the branch to Cir Mhor .There is a boulder beside the path that provides a good shelter. 

I would strongly recommend climbing Angels pavement before carrying on up to evening traverse. This finishes at the first terrace but is fantastic climbing at severe on immaculate rock. 

Well I don’t have much else of value to add to all these responses but a trip to Arran for me is a lovely memory . It was, I guess about 1969, with my wife - then girlfriend. We went all the way from Sheffield by various ‘local’ double decker buses (obviously apart from the ferry). On arrival at Brodick I found the only vending machine I have ever seen that sold hot fried chips. It was more or less on the jetty if I remember correctly and I think it cost a shilling (happy to be corrected).The hike up Glen Rosa was hard work because madam did not believe girls should carry stuff when they had a bloke handy. We camped about 1km from Cir Mhor ( might have been a bit closer). In the middle of the night we were awoken to sounds of a mysterious beastie outside the tent (Vango 2 man job or 2 person job I suppose). Turned out to be a large highland cow come to see us.

Anyway we had a great time. Climbed  everything in good weather for a whole week. Fantastic rock and some really great routes. We didn’t have a guidebook or prior info so for us every climb was a first ascent . The walk out to the pub became quite wearing so we gave up the beer after three days. 
the strange thing is whilst we can both remember the trip up by various double deckers neither of us can remember anything about how we got back to Sheffield. I think we might have got the train but more likely we hitched as we had no money.

Happy days remembered.

Thats quite an insight to the area. My earliest memory was a waiting room with toilets and an old big red sea mine at the door you could leave donations into. (Probably RNLI) bit similar to a British railway waiting room (70s). 

Weird they had Highland cattle this far up the glen when the pasture is at the lower glen. But I was very young at this time and dont have a memory to back this up.(Just a young pup of 52).

Really interested in the vending machine that served hot chips in the 60s on the pier. The only time I was ever arrested was on that pier after a night in the Ormidale was full of LSD. We might of being using the same machine! 

How did it heat them? It must of been before oven chips and microwave chips. Did a wee basket drop down into bubbling oil in the vender then drop out? 

I remember folk talking about coin operated petrol pumps but a chips machine! and on Arran 1960s! That Im really interested in hearing about. I dont remember any family or friends on the Island talking about that. 

Sorry if I come across a bit of a disbeliever but no one has mentioned this before. but I would love to learn more about this. Thankyou.

youtube.com/watch?v=DGKWKR_OVUU& bit of a miserly portion.

I just don’t remember the midges being too bad in Glen Rosa*.  Obviously you don’t hang about outside at dusk and you have a tent with decent netting, but at midsummer after a hard day out you should be in bed by then anyway!
 

* All relative of course, but definitely not  in my top 5 carnivorous insect experiences.  I’ve had to run for my life twice (Ilkley Rocky Valley and Newstones), I remember it being pretty miserable on Hoy, and the black flies on a beach in New Zealand eventually driving us away... but it’s all very dependent on the time of year, how wet the summer has been, how windy it is, and how much more interesting your companions are (I find that one works for me).

As you say, the midges all depend on the time of year. The only time I've climbed on Cir Mhor and camped in Glen Rosa was in the first 5 days of May (before the rains set in, iirc), and we had no midges at all. As confirmed in my detailed logbook: no mention of any. The whole secret with these places is to climb in them in late April/early May or in early to mid September. Also the weather can be better at those times. 

The chip machine is indeed a curiosity. Many times I have speculated on how it could work most efficiently. From a consumer viewpoint you put your money in and waited some minutes and a paper dish eventually dropped followed by the chips....they were quite chunky. I cannot think how it could be economical and maybe that's why it did not catch-on. But most curious of all is why it was on the jetty at Arran of all places. Central station in Glasgow might have been a more obvious place for a trial. It really is odd. I'm pretty sure it was 1968 or 1969 because i'd have been in my second or third year as a post-grad student which fits.

We had no midges at all on the first day but they turned up big time on the second day. Got stuck behind some bumblers on labyrinth and got pretty munched. Apart from being a bit duller, there was very little difference with the wind/temp. Seems to be a bit of luck, like the weather, as to whether you have a good time or not.

Chatted to someone in the lakes a few days later who had gone to glen Rosa a week before us and left without climbing anything because of the wee bastards. 

Two of the worst midge experiences I have ever had have been in The Lakes (and I spend a pretty negligible amount of time there compared to Scotland). It always amuses me when people from England come out with this "don't bother going to Scotland in the summer" bollocks. Still, if it keeps the crowds away........

I think this attitude (which seems to be shared by many Scottish rock climbers)is a hangover from when people were more interested in the big mountain routes.

There was no way I was going to drive all night to Gairloch say, just to fart around at Stone Valley, Poolewe or Reiff. I was there for the likes of something a bit more special like Carnmore ( in the rain), Triple Buttress (snow) and Fiddler Nose ( never happened).

A more enlightened view as to what is worth climbing and making use of the smaller outlying crags would have been much more likely to make a summer visit worthwhile.

I'm not sure it is shared so much by climbers living in Scotland; we just make the most of whatever conditions there are.

But isn't that a weather thing rather than a midge thing?

Being flexible certainly makes it more likely that you will find dry, midge free rock, but I do think there is still a common attitude that Scotland is to be avoided in the summer.

Anyway, one thing is for certain: it is a complete waste of time going to the south west of England in the summer because it is always far too hot to climb. And I should know because I once tried it and had to bail - never again.

Chip machine was indeed a shilling! And my dad tells me that every second portion was bigger than the first, so as youths they used to sit and watch tourists put money in and then go for the bigger portion! A famous Local Entrepreneur was behind the scheme. 

That is such a weird thing to have on Brodick pier in the 60s! Thanks for the interesting history.