UKC

I’m considering hiring a guide for a couple of days to learn to lead trad. 

I really value a scenic location and would also like to learn some multi-pitch skills (I’ve done sport multi in the past so know some basics). For context, I live abroad and have a few days free in the UK in mid-May. I want to make a trip of it and will probably also spend a couple of days walking as well. I’m British and know all these areas for walking but have never climbed in the UK. Where should I go?

- Peak District

- North Wales

- Lake District

- Glen Coe (or elsewhere in Scotland?)

The Peak District is very convenient for me. But (in my limited knowledge) most pitches are short and there is not much multi-pitch so perhaps it is not ideal on the climbing side? Or am I completely mistaken? Right now all I have to base my choice on is personal travel convenience so any climbing-specific considerations that you guys have would be appreciated.

Thanks for your help!

The Peak District will give you a great introduction to UK trad climbing. You are correct in thinking that most is short though, so very limited for multi-pitch. Definitely still worth considering, especially as it's convenient for you.

All the other locations you mentioned will give you multi-pitch options by the bucket load. 

Definitely true that the Peak District wouldn't be ideal for learning the multi-pitch aspect*. North Wales, the Lake District or any number of places in Scotland would all be very suitable, so choosing between them might as well be left to personal preference or travel convenience. I'd suggest that North Wales would probably involve less time on walk-ins but Cumbrians and Scots might be outraged.

*There are a small number of quality climbs in the Peak with multiple pitches, and a much larger number that you could artificially split up for the sake of learning the process. But it's definitely not the place to choose for learning multi-pitch skills.

Having said all that, learning multi-pitch skills might be a lot to pack in on top of learning the basics of Trad. Perhaps worth considering treating them as two separate learning experiences with a bit of time in between to consolidate. If you're a particularly fast learner, or your existing experience of sport multi-pitch is quite extensive and gave you a good grasp of fundamentals, maybe doing them together would work. But it seems like a lot to me.

Think the above advice - 

'learning multi-pitch skills might be a lot to pack in on top of learning the basics of Trad. Perhaps worth considering treating them as two separate learning experiences with a bit of time in between to consolidate. If you're a particularly fast learner, or your existing experience of sport multi-pitch is quite extensive and gave you a good grasp of fundamentals, maybe doing them together would work. But it seems like a lot to me'

is really very good. Was going to say something similar myself. 

Don't worry I'm not expecting to come out of this as an independent multi-pitcher going for wild adventures in the desert

But I do think it would be valuable to discuss and practice different considerations for single vs multi-pitch right away when learning. I semi-frequently follow an experienced friend on 2-3 pitch easy trad routes and it would be nice to be able to lead one of the pitches on those kind of routes.

If you're already leading sport and following trad on multi-pitch routes I wouldn't think it was a crazy idea to just take the rack on an easy pitch and give leading a go. That's how most of us started. You've seen enough placements on second to know how it works. 

I prefer teaching new to trad people on multi pitch routes. Route choice is key but it works really well in the right place.

How come? You're the professional, so I don't doubt that it makes sense. It just surprises me, so I'm curious to know more.

I find it's a better and more efficient use of time plus there's more belay building variety.

I think building the belay is probably the most important part of leading on a MP route.  

I agree that seconding will have given the OP a close up view of gear placements but they may know nothing of belays other than tying a clove hitch or clipping into a loop.

Back to the OQ...  North Wales would be my pick but I'm biased

Yeah I know some basics but not much more!

In any case, I'm on my own and want to go climbing somewhere pretty. If I'm hiring a guide anyway I may as well take the opportunity to try and learn something.

Plas y Brenin might be the place for you.  I'd re-think the aspiration to learn trad in a couple of days. 

North Wales, due to the more compact nature than Scotland, for multipitch in spectacular locations, from big mountain routes to less worn gems of the Moelwynion.

You'd could also do well to ask here as there are several excellent Eryri/Snowdonia climbing instructors in these forums, although they're probably holding back in case it's seen as poor form to pounce on threads. Ask jezb for example?

Just to reassure you, the dislikes on my post are aimed at me. PyB really is a great place to learn trad.

North Wales is best, but I might be biased as I run all my rock climbing courses here. We’ve got a great selection of different rock types and styles and lots of venue choices for whatever the weather brings plus some amazing beginner friendly trad crags with short approaches.

Only skim read the above replies but they seem north wales biased because I think more of the north wales based instructors are regulars on here . The lakes would be just as good a venue to learn trad and dare I say it - nicer place to visit . They are also lots of good instructors and activity bomosies based here they maybe aren’t as vocal on here . I bet if you had put a post up saying I want to do a trad course in the lakes in may sone of the north wales based freelancers would be happy to oblige If they are free .

For a Lakes based guide I can’t recommend Esther Foster highly enough. She will tailor a few days around exactly what you want to do and you will learn loads in a super friendly atmosphere. 

My suggestion would be Peak Eastern edges.  Transport is a bit easier, and the weather is a bit more consistent.  Then you can spend a lot of time climbing a lot of short pitches, placing a ton of gear, and discuss building belays at the top. 

Multipitch then becomes another trip though.

Wales would be second to that, Lakes 3rd, but I'm not that familiar with the Lakes so I might be wrong there.  But the reason I'm not so familiar is that every time I've been there the weather has been foul

There are options for Peak multi pitch if the practice is desired. Just last week I climbed N.M.C. Crack at Gardom's Edge in 3 pitches for a friend's first multi pitch experience. Granted it's not as spectacular as a Welsh route but still good fun and the principles are the same.

True.  But , my rationale is that practice makes perfect, and a couple of days at Stanage  , 10 or 12 routes a day, you might place 200 pieces of gear over the two days. Admittedly a lot of the placements will be a bit samey, but it's a pretty good start 

I'm agreeing with you, just adding that along with doing lots of routes on a gritstone edge or edges, some routes can even be done in a multi pitch style

I think it’s utter bollocks. Generations of climbers have learned by going out and climbing in places like Ogwen and Tryfan. 
 

My advice to the OP would be that any of the options he lists would work, as would Cornwall or Pembroke or a few other places. I’d be more concerned with finding a decent guide and visiting a place I wanted to visit. If I were giving advice between places, I’d say swerve the Peak. If you’ve done sport multi pitch you’ll find the grit a little odd and short. Imho grit is not a good medium for learning trad skills but a fantastic playground if you already have them. Also the walking is less good than in, say, Glen Coe.

jcm

Having been born and bred around London and climbed extensively in N Wales, Lakes, Yorkshire, Derbyshire and the rest, on balance I agree with you. I think there is more easy access to "multi-pitch" climbing in North Wales than anywhere else in the UK. Also, I think it is a good idea to get beginners on to multi-pitch climbs early on. That way they will learn the most about belaying, and that the ground (on single pitch climbs) should be treated in much the same way as a ledge or stance on any other climb. Just climbing short, single pitch routes can lead to some bad and dangerous belaying habits.

Do you think maybe you've overstated that a bit? There are clearly extra things to think about with multi-pitch climbing compared to single pitch so I think my suggestion that learning them separately might be easier is defensible. It's perfectly possible to learn both in parallel, saying otherwise would be bollocks, but I didn't even suggest it wasn't possible, just a little more to take in.

I'm guessing you like to be right, but worth noting that generations of climbers have started out 'on the grit', before taking the skills learnt there to bigger places. They may even have belonged to the same generations of climbers who started out at Ogwen and Tryfan. 

The best answer is really: Wherever the weather is best!

In an ideal world you wait until a couple of days before, decide where the weather looks good, book an instructor / guide and go. Trouble is anyone half decent will almost certainly be booked up fairly far in advance.

A single pitch should be treated in just the same way as any pitch on a multipitch route. There isn’t anything essentially different to learn about belaying on multipitch routes, except for quite trivial things like making sure you let the rope gather neatly close to you as you take in, rather than hanging down in loops that can get caught on spikes, blow about in the wind, etc. There is nothing tame about a single pitch route, in fact, on harder climbs, they are rather more dangerous in that, in the worst possible scenario in which all protection fails, you are going to deck it rather than end up bouncing in space on the ropes. You don’t have to fall very far on to hard ground to kill yourself or injure yourself very badly.

For the record, apart from going on a 4-day Mountaineering Association beginners' course (where all the emphasis was on belaying properly), my brother and I went straight from top-roping at Harrisons to alternate leading multi-pitch routes in the Ogwen Valley and on Tryfan - we hadn’t been on any gritstone outcrops at that point. I don’t recall having any issue with the transition whatever.

Tough one, but for sheer variety and quality, packed into a small area, North Wales has it.

Depends where you're based, but you may find that securing a good instructor and some good weather are the decisive factors. That being said, N. Wales means you could be in Ogwen, in the Pass, at Tremadog or at Holyhead , etc. - i.e. places with distinct microclimates, giving you and the instructor more options.

Separately: find a friend who also really wants to learn and go together (so long as they can safely belay at a minimum). Instructor will probably find it easier to manage you in a pair, anyway; the cost will be similar; and you'll have someone to keep practising with.

The more you can learn before your course, the more quality you'll be able to get out of the course, so practise your knots, building belays in your living room and knowing what good gear looks like. It will help you to know what you really want from the instructor.

Totally hit the nail on the head there Jez. Decent weather will make all the difference and any half decent instructor won't be forcing a learn to lead course in crappy conditions anyway.

Leave it as last minute as you can, find a flexible instructor and go for it.

What JB said. Go here, it's great fun for learning and very quick access - from a campsite you could stay at:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/tryfan_fach-490/