UKC

Any beta appreciated (already looked at Rockfax).

What's the kit like? E2 5b implies it's rather sparse - is this the case?

In reply to featuresforfeet:

A normal sea cliff rack will suffice. One of the best routes at Pembers. Headtorch would reduce grade.

R

In reply to featuresforfeet:

I really want to do this route, but i will go with the CC guide grade of hvs as this will give me some (false) confidence that i can do it....

In reply to featuresforfeet:

E2 5b rarely means sparse gear in Pembroke...

However in this case you are right, if the reports I've had from friends are accurate.

In reply to katonka:
led to believe that this climb was bumped up in the grade for the uniqueness and potential difficulties inherent to being in a cave not the actual climbing difficulty. there is adequate protection and the climbing is hvs standard, don't remember anything harder than 5a. would suggest both leader and second are competant at hvs though.

In reply to featuresforfeet:

Since when has this been E2? I have it as HVS in both the Rockfax and CC guidebooks.

In reply to featuresforfeet:

The gear is probably OK, but falling off is a bad idea given that for most of the route you are in a chimney/cave and thus guaranteed to swing and hit something if you slip on wet rock. Pitch 2 can be very wet and slimy, as can the lower half of Pitch 3 (all of it if it's been wet recently).

First pitch is a steep but positive traverse; I don't recall any issues with gear, but it was quite tiring.

Second pitch was a bit of a 'mare. It's very three-dimensional climbing (you have to be looking for gear and holds all around you): you bridge into the cave some way then climb up in the dark to a boulder-choke ledge and get runners in (I found 2 cams here, left on the ledge in the dark). Rope drag can be a problem as your partner may be belayed some way out towards the cave entrance. Then there is a fairly unpleasant section of greasy/dirty/slopey-holds rock to overcome (the crux), with small uncertain wire placements and your ropes going in some odd directions, until a traverse up and left past a jammed piece of ammunition lands you on a ledge under the skylight. A head torch would have helped, but that would surely have counted as aid....

Pitch 3 feels like it should be a cruise, but actually has a reasonably hard move on it (maybe 5a but dark and wet, so I think it gets 5b), at the overlap. IIRC there should be bomber gear (hexes I think) and a hidden hold that make it OK. It keeps going right to the top though.

I'd say that the grade is a good compromise on a very difficult call. If nothing else, it's a suitable warning.

In reply to Caralynr:
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/r.php?i=17750

I'm guessing it's a bit like Benny at Swanage, not actually VS climbing but an absolute pig in places and 100% committing.

In reply to Caralynr:

Quote from the CC supplement:

"Considered by many to be a serious outing, having been the scene of a number of epics, regraded to E2 with pitch grades of 5b,5a,5a. In heavy, storm seas the massive blowhole erupts with enough force to split rocks. You would not want to be in there when this happens"

In reply to featuresforfeet:

Gear is not sparse but its a serious route. If there is any kind of a sea running you could get wet in the cave (I know - I did !). The first pitch is the hardest to do, especially if greasy and the crux move across to the chockstone in the cave entrance definately feels 5b and out there - good swing potential out of sight of your belayer (unless you swing, in which case you go in and out of sight!). Nothing else is anywhere near as technical and is well protected but route finding is very 3 dimensional. Rope work has to be spot on to protect you and the second.

Take torches and remember, it can feel cold (and lonely)in the cave so wrap up well.

Enjoy - its definately a *** star experience all the way.

In reply to Caralynr: It was upgraded to E2 in the latest CC supplement, as a result of the seriousness of the situation and the difficulty of effecting a rescue rather than the difficulty of the climbing.

The crux is a move on the face just before the entry into the cave, but the rock in the cave is often slippery - on the second ascent one of the climbers dislocated a shoulder inside the cave when his foot slipped.

In reply to Snorkers McPorkers:

Maybe that's the E2!

In reply to various:

Cheers all. Will have to re-think it being on an achievable wishlist for now then!

In reply to John2:


I think the perceived position of the crux depends on conditions - I did it on a nice sunny day, when the rock outside the cave was warm and dry, so the stated 5b move felt fine, although it definitely hits you when you are still getting going. Inside, climbing in shorts, T shirt, cold and darkness, with the rock very slippery and seeping (it was early Spring), the moves felt harder and more serious. I thought E2 5a/b, 5a/b, 5a/b summed it up - never partiucularly hard, but always with the potential to chuck you off if conditions conspired.

A fantastically memorable outing either way.

In reply to Snorkers McPorkers:
I was partially responsible for suggesting the E2 grade in the CC supplement, on the basis of the number of HVS climbers having epics when the route was damp and also my own experiences.
I first I did it with Ian Parnell on a dim, wet December day without head torches. With almost every hold soaking and no light to place gear by we thought it close to E4 and took 5 hours.
I went back a few weekends ago and did it with a head torch and after a week of dry weather. Pitch 2 was still damp and felt about E2 to me. I am sure that in ideal dry conditions it could feel HVS...so the suggested E2 grade seems a reasonable average.
There's loads of gear (if you can see it), but you wouldn't want to slip as with the rope stretch and the slimy rock below you'd often have to prussik to get back on.
Do tell someone what you're doing and when you expect to finish as no one would know if you had an accident deep inside.

In reply to John Alcock:

Agreed!

In reply to John Alcock:

You are spot on at E2 5b - especially on the Pembroke E2 scale.

In reply to John Alcock:

>Do tell someone what you're doing and when you expect to finish as no one would know if you had an accident deep inside

Indeed. Why, you might even have to solo the last two pitches to get out and get help.....

jcm

In reply to John Alcock:

We did it in summer, belting hot, dry for ages and pitch 2 was wet. As far as time taken to do the route we were nicknamed the "Preposterous Snails"!!

In reply to featuresforfeet:

When i did it we looked at the grade (HVS then) and assumed that it was graded as an 'adventure route' and so was probably just VS climbing! A top route with a top name...

I seem to remember the crux on the 1st pitch being worth 5b (and with some swing/dunk potential for the 2nd) but thought the rest was no more than 5a at most and with good gear. Memories of placing gear by touch come flooding back so a headtorch may help on P2 (alternatively, being able to see what you're doing might just make it more scary!)

And whatever you do, don't forget the prussiks!

In reply to Steve Culverhouse:

Is it just me who has experienced a wave soaking on this route ? belaying at the foot of pitch 3. Since you are about 50' above the sea at this point you can imagine how atmospheric it was in there !

In reply to featuresforfeet: Wow - it's been top of my wishlist for years that route! Are you thinking about it soon? Let me know how it goes!!!

In reply to HC~F:

Possibly this weekend if I can find someone to do it with - will let you know how it goes (assume badly if I'm not back on here next week!).

In reply to featuresforfeet:

If I'm passing I'll wander past the exit blowhole and listen for sounds of whimpering

Last time I did it, someone had deposited a huge turd right by the final thank god jug as you emerge blinking into daylight. Deeply dangerous for the perpetrator and potentially the final ignomy for the battered climber - luckily for us concerned friends (we had the car keys) were waiting for us and pointed it out.

i tried this on sunday, and after leading the first pitch i decided to turn back for a variety of reasons, not least because i was sh*%ing myself. could someone tell me where the belay is? i entered the cave and wedged myself behind a large hanging flake thing. is this the belay area or do you carry on into the darkness for a bit longer? looking forward to a rematch in nicer weather and armed with prussics.
cheers guys

In reply to big john: You de-wedge yourself from the flake/headjam and bridge into the cave a little further onto a large chockstone for a comfortable belay. Sounds like you'd done the hard bit. We did it last week in sunny conditions and a fairly quiet sea and it felt exciting. To think that in storm seas the water exits through the blow hole is just mind boggling.

In reply to big john:

Its a relatively comfortable (in a cold damp sort of way)belay inside the cave. Probably best to have bailed with the sea that was running on Sunday !

In reply to featuresforfeet: It is a great route. If at al lnervous spend the next wet Autnumn weekends caving and the grade will quickly be reduced back to HVS. Otherwise there is the odd Derbyshire pot that would get E4.