UKC

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

That's amazing news - even more so when you consider the serious attention it has recieved from people like Ethan Pringle (pre-injury).

Congratulations to Chris.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Now that is truly impressive. He's pulled it out of the bag again. Amazing effort.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Clark Mountain is covered comprehensively (now needs updating) in the Rockfax guidebook, Island in The Sky.

Amazing crag, amazing climbs.

Clark Mountain - the best limestone in America
by Randy Leavitt Jun/2007
This article has been read 3,319 times

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=458

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Wow - that is phenomenal news.

Two thoughts to ponder then:

a) No grade as yet but will there ever be, Sharma doesn't grade his climbs anymore does he? So for a laugh I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest F9c+ but then I noticed a thread on UKC about F6c+ and F7c+ being under represented becasue of chasing bigger numbers so I think more likely F10a!!

b) I think that wonder-kid Ondra would skip up it!!

But actually in seriousness I do think this is one of those milestone acheivements which could represent the high water mark of climbing for a long time to come.

In reply to chris_j_s:

....until he does his project at Santa Linya which, judging by the footage in Dosage 5, looks truly sick.

In reply to teddy:

I haven't seen Dosage 5 yet. I was slightly put off by the mixed reception it seemed to get (is it good then?).

He'd better get it done before climbing at Santa Linya is banned

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Does "Sends" translates to "Climbs" in English, please ?

In reply to chris_j_s:

Its the dope dude, you must see this film! Don't take no for an answer.

In reply to GrahamD: More accurately translated as "climbs with the accompaniment of whooping".

In reply to GrahamD:

They are interchangeable Graham.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Not round here, they're not. Is there really a need for American slang terms in UKC news ?

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Has there been any real informed estimate of the grade ?

In reply to GrahamD:

It's what a lot of the young people in the UK use now Graham. I'm as aghast as you are. I blame the parents, the schools, the media and MacDonalds.

Awesome line though, it's the dope, da bomb, amazing send by Sharma.

Beautiful cliff too, takes a full hour up hill to get to the Monastery....great views down to the Mojave desert, yet you have pines next to you.

In reply to GrahamD:

The title of the BigUp article was "Chris Sends" - seems reasonable to echo this in UKCs reporting.

Out of interest, why does this bother you so much? Do you want to preserve the purity of Chaucer's "English"?

In reply to GrahamD:

Yes, here we go:

No Name Yet Grade? Hardest he's done..."a milestone in the world of climbing..."

In reply to GrahamD:

Frickin' hard, or Scottish VS.

In reply to chris_j_s:

You'd almost think that UKC should publish a review wouldn't you?

*cough*

In reply to GrahamD:

And what does 'owning' holds mean for goodness sakes...I ask you.

all very impressive

In reply to Yorkspud:

Climbing Walls own holds...

In reply to TRNovice:

we have a volunteer then!

In reply to Morgan Woods:

"had" not "have"

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Thats amazing news, congratulations to Mr Sharma. Keen to see what level he has pushed climbing to now!

In reply to TRNovice:

Personally, I would like news to be presented as news in a manner that is universally comprehensible, not just to those that understand 'yoof speak'. We don't use Spanish when we report on ascents in Spain, do we ? Or for that matter report in dialect when we report ascents in this country.

In reply to GrahamD:

It's yoof speak is it?

- TRN aged 42 and one quarter

In reply to Jon Redshaw:

Or, indeed, whether he has. It certainly looks impressive, but then anything above Fr7 looks impressive to me.

In reply to TRNovice:

Quote from one M.Ryan of this parish: "It's what a lot of the young people in the UK use now Graham"

In reply to GrahamD:

Are you 147 or 47?

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

"A milestone in the world of climbing". Divided Years was one of those once, according to the magazines of the day. Seriously, it would be nice to see (as an interested punter) an objective assesment without the hyperbole.

In reply to Jus:

48 now. And English.

In reply to GrahamD: Any upright British person using the word send in the context of a sporting ascent should be sended to the back of the class. It is a ghastly yankism, and sounds dreadfully affected on the lips of anyone who doesn't 'speak' in an American drawl.

In reply to GrahamD:

Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of Mick?

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Fantasitc achievement. Well done:

As for this from the Big Up blog:

"On this eerie morning of the 9/11 anniversary, Chris took the project and put it in a box...BOOM. He was in crush-mode; f***in hiked it. ... we gotta party. Hasta..." Cooper Roberts

wrong wrong wrong

In reply to dan bailey:

Do you pronounce "ghastly" in an Old Etonian manner, with the 'a' lasting 5 seconds? Just interested.

In reply to dan bailey:

Yup, hearing Brits say 'send' makes me cringe at the slightly desperate aspirational transatlanticism...

In reply to GrahamD:

To early for that Graham.

I've seen the line, although not climbed it of course, in fact I co-wrote the guidebook to the area.

I've seen the footage.

For Chris Sharma to say to Grimer

"For me, if I could do that project on Clark Mountain, I'd be satisfied. It'd leave behind something that'd be a milestone in the world of climbing..."

Is enough for me. Chris isn't one for hyperbole....his media handlers are no doubt.

'To own a hold'...what a lovely expression, add it to your lexicon.

In reply to GrahamD:

I suggest you boycott UKC until the fetid stench of American English has dissipated from these forums!

Seriously, it's only a cut and paste job from an American website of a very enthusiatic news report of a brilliant achievement. No biggie.

If it was a headline on the front page of The Times, I'd start to worry.

In reply to GrahamD: Must admit that I'm not keen on the use of 'send' either. Must be a 48 thing!

In reply to Eric Herring:

I think we should rid English of all traces of foreign influence, let's start with abseil, crampon and piton.

In reply to TRNovice:

what about "Sharma 'scends Clark Mountain Project"?

In reply to Morgan Woods:

With "Clark" obviously rhyming with "jerk"...

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Thanks, Mick. So it could, indeed, be a contender.

In reply to Jus:

I know its only cut and paste, but it does sound like a news report penned by Beavis and Butthead

In reply to GrahamD:

How come you know who Beavis and Butthead are ?

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
On the grade... he says its the hardest climb he has ever done, so thats at least 9b/9b+

And i remember a while back steve maclure asked him about it and he said it was at least 2 steps harde than realisation,
so i recon its got to be 9b+

So quite easy really...

In reply to dan bailey:

You should probably join them for your abysmal English, unless you were deliberatly trying to be ironic, since you should have used "sent" as opposed to the "sended" that you wrote.

Even those who use the word "send" in relation to having climbed a route/problem would have got the tense correct and used "sent".

In reply to TRNovice:

I'd rather not - we might end up with the hideous 'rappel'...

In reply to Eric Herring:

So you prefer the German to the French?

In reply to TRNovice:

in the case of the aesthetics of that particular word, yes: my dislike of 'send' is not about keeping foreign influences out of English, truly an absurd notion, but as I specified, ie a sense that it is being used here in a slightly cringe-inducing aspirational manner.

In reply to Eric Herring:

Jesus Christ relaaaaax everybody, think mellow!!!!! Its only a word. Who gives one either way.

In reply to teddy:

"think mellow" - sounds suspiciously Californian to me

In reply to GrahamD: Fantastic! Today Sharma sends his line and the thread focuses on a nuance of the English language, yesterday Kirkpatrick announces his new book and gets slammed for a grammatical error. Good to see that the UKC public are hearing the message evangelised by these two; of living for the moment, not getting bogged down in the small things and following your dreams... Respect to Sharma and I am sure Andy K's book will be superb regardless of any typos.

In reply to Sankey:

yeah tough crowd this lot.

In reply to Sankey and teddy:

I am just avin a laff re the 'send' stuff etc, all just a bit of fun...

btw, and being serious, in Andy Kirkpatrick's case he is following a nightmare ....

In reply to Sankey:

By a handful of people is hardly the UKC public. Most read and don't comment.

In reply to dan bailey:

If I can draw a parallel here the use of 'send', possibly as a shortening of ascend, has developed this meaning through its wide use even though it clearly isn't a currently recognised correct use of the word. This is how language develops - we certainly aren't using the same 'English' as was used 200 years ago.

Similarly the phrase yank (which is short for Yankee so it should be Yankeeism really) properly used only refers to residents of New England (of English ancestry, so quite funny that we should use it in a derogatory fashion!), although it was later used to refer to the wider north east US. It is only outside the US that it has come to (incorrectly) mean any American through its wide misuse.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: It's true, we don't, damn, i've screwed that up.

In reply to GrahamD:


Yes. Similarly "Highball" translates to "High". One extra syllable but no extra information. You get to sound mega-cool though. Or maybe not.

In reply to simes303: No, Highball specifically relates to bouldering, a highball problem.

In reply to chris_j_s: Must we accept any and all bastardised usage, just because language is a living thing? Surely our rejection of some novel words on the grounds that they are plain silly is as legitimate an influence on the development of language as any other? By the way I couldn't really give a monkeys, though if someone who wasn't North American spoke to me about sending a sick hard project I couldn't help but think them feeble minded.

In reply to @ndyM@rsh@ll:

my vote is for 9b+

Chris take note.

In reply to dan bailey:

You're right - we shouldn't. I was being more awkward than necessary to make a point.

However, whether these terms get accepted is probably more likely to be based on their popularity.

Lets face it we all knew automatically what it meant when we read the headline so it has clearly become part of our language whether we like it or not!

Anyway, as has been mentioned its really not an issue worthy of these 'forum inches' compared to the acheivement itself...

In reply to chris_j_s:

I thought the use of 'send' is a derived from having 'dispatched' a problem, as 'dispatch' and 'send' are synonyms and it therefore seems more logical than the contracture of 'ascend'.

Further to have 'dispatched' a route/problem makes perfect sense as you have 'done away with' (i.e. dispatched) the route/problem.

In reply to chris_j_s:

Hear, hear!

In reply to slacky:

Argh! Not this argument again - can't we just stick to arguing about whether Jesus was an historical figure or not?

In reply to TRNovice: Yeah but I am sure this argument got cleared up too.

I thought it only qualified as a send if the belayer shouts the word 'send it dude' every few seconds as you climb?


As an aside are we going to get any spooky coincidence on the conspiracy theme references as a name check for the route?

In reply to TRNovice:

Sorry I wasn't attempting to instigate an argument, just a logical explanation (based on the rules and structure of the english language) of the context and derivation of the term 'send' in climbing.

Jesus was a historical figure, but then so is Chris Sharma.

In reply to Sankey:

Really. Does that make sense ? does the use of slang add any value to the news report ? Does it make it clearer to people who's first language is not English ?

In reply to simonwhittle:

Wasn't 9b+ claimed before for some stamina fest route ? (can't remember the climber or the climb, unfortunately)

In reply to GrahamD:

Would you really want all climbing news reported as if it was in The Economist? "Send" is perfecting understandable. People may not like the word (or how it is used), but it is not exactly cloaking the news item in mystery now is it?

Maybe boulderers should stop saying "allez!" as well at it will confuse people who don't have French as a first language. Methinks you do protest too much.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Does it deserve the title 'worlds hardest route' when it's a sport route?

I think that debate could rage on...

In reply to rusty_nails:

Yes. Until this route and all the other contenders are repeated (Akira anyone ?) the debate will rage on.

In reply to TRNovice:

English would do.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

I'm not sure by failing to grade his routes sharma is really doing himself and favours. For us mortals its virtually impossible to understand how hard something is without some kind of bench mark. I've seen the film about it on 'king lines' and it looks nails - but the film of him on dream catcher looks nails as well and that's 'only' 8c+/9a. Would just be nice to have him say its around 9b or 9c etc so I can feel suitably weak...

In reply to GrahamD: You mean like americans?

In reply to petejh:

English as opposed to slang. All this sending lines business is as bad as wading through piles of management speak !

In reply to necromancer85:

That's what he has done, but with no specific grade. Similar to Dave M's Ben Nevis route...again no grade, but a comparison, harder than.......

That is honest.

In reply to necromancer85:

I suspect the Sharma publicity machine (not neccessarily the man himself) know exactly the effect of not giving out grades and I also suspect that it is deemed positive.

I was replying to your earlier post. Sorry, lost in traslation.

In reply to GrahamD:

i seem to remember something along those lines, it was a spaniard and he climbed something about 70m long?

In reply to GrahamD:

That's not what you said, you have so far mentioned "yoof language" and "slang". The title makes sense to me and appears to be in English.

In reply to GrahamD:

Do you really think that he employees a staff of hundreds in a gleaming office block on K-street?

In reply to the inspiral carpet:

I think the line you are refering to is Chilam Balam, an alleged 9b+ from Bernabe Fernandez from 2003

In reply to the inspiral carpet:

Bernabé Fernández and Chilam Balam, Sharma is seen working it on one of the extras in King Lines or Dosage V - I forget.

In reply to TRNovice:

Or maybe he spoke about it on his lecture tour - I'm getting on a bit you know.

In reply to teddy:

That's the one, thanks.

In reply to TRNovice:

No, of course not. But equally, he doesn't organise his own videos and phot shoots (latest front cover of Summit wasn't a camera on self timer with his own words on the caption, was it ?).

In reply to GrahamD:

No it was by Corey Rich - do you apply the same standards when Dave Simmonite or Alex Messenger are the photographers? are they media machines?

In reply to GrahamD:

There is a loose coalition who make money from Chris Sharma....... Big Up for one, photographers, his sponsors and the climbing media - both web and print.

But as for not grading. This is typical of Sharma and no doubt in this instance, with good reason.

He climbed it yesterday for goodness sake. He may or may not grade it, or else we will have to wait until a repeat.

Prime conditions for Clark are in the winter months.

Can you take the discussion about american climbing slang to another thread, dude?

Please.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

This one perhaps: -

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=320147

In reply to GrahamD:

just done a bit of snooping and it was a climber called Bernabe Fernandes

And now we have 9b+ by little known Bernabe Fernandez. Just like way back in 1995 when Fred Rouhling claimed 9b with Akira, the World has sat up and cried bullshit. OK, so you can see why: Fernandez should be able to onsight 8c easily and crank 9a after lunch. And is he so much better than Sharma and Ramon? Well who knows –yet. Personally I’d like to think it is 9b+. The amount of time and effort he has put in is incredible; the route is on his home ground and in his favourite style. Maybe the route suited him perfectly. Maybe to him it’s only 9b, but to everyone else it will be 9b+? From what I hear it’s like running a marathon in 400 m sprints with no rest in between. This route is 80 metres long with 400 moves – try building that in your cellar! Whether its 9b+ or not you can be sure it’s not your average jog around the block.

this is from
http://www.freakclimbing.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid...

In reply to the inspiral carpet:

You are the third person with that news, but win points for extended coverage .

In reply to TRNovice:

ahh oh well that's watching the C5 movie for you....did i just admit to that? eeek :-/

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

The comments about slang terms will be duly 'sent' to a different thread.

This was about the comment that it is probably of mutual benefit to Chris Sharma (because that is what he wants) and those that gain from covering his exploits (because it adds to Sharma's mystique)not to give grades. Not meaning to be controversial on this one !

In any case, I'm sure that this route will attract a few suitors simply because it is a Sharma route with a claim associated with it and we will know how significant it is for worldwide climbing standards.

In reply to GrahamD:

It had already attracted such attention, just because he was trying it maybe.

In reply to GrahamD:

I think it's quite nice that the (claimed) 'worlds hardest' sport and trad routes are both now on proper mountains.

In reply to Everyone!: It's very similar to when I start to go on about having to start the hoovering to my boyfriend ... all I'm hearing is blah blah blah blah blah.

Is it really important? I mean crumbs on the carpet are annoying, but not deadly ...

In reply to catt:

Agreed - we just need a V17 near the top of The Ben to complete things!

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: i seem to remember that in an issue of Rock and Ice talking about this project that the grade 9b+ was thrown around, along with the 50ft bouldery start that could be added on making the grade 9c... or something ridiculous like that.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
"Can you take the discussion about american climbing slang to another thread, dude?

Please."

But Mick, I'm confused....I've now spent 24 years in the Uk and 24 years in the USA.....I need to know if I'm allowed to use "send", when I get up something...not that it happens very often you understand.

In reply to Jerry Handren:

99% of people will be quite happy with you using whatever language you like - 1% will think it "ghastly".

In reply to TRNovice:

Its ghastly...

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
But what has he ever done on grit?


(sorry, Ive been waiting for somebody else to say it)

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:


Interesting that its proposed as the hardest route he's ever done but seemingly in sub-optimal conditions... how much difference is that likely to make for this climb/crag?

Mark

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
but this is what I like about UKC. Reading a lot of 'fantastic' 'well done' 'amazing' is fine and well deserved but a bit dull. I think it is typically british that this thread has swerved off in several directions and spends so much time on grammer and entertaining arguments.

Regarding the American terms, I think American is a different language and the American's are a different people, just as the French language and the French people are.

I have come to realise this expecially watching the coverage of the American election process and how a Mouse hunting, Creationalist is seen as a major bonus to someone's election campaign whereas in the UK it would be the end of them.

In reply to TRNovice:

Another vote for ghastly ..

In reply to nigel pearson: those mice get pretty big in alaska then?

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Any film footage of this as it would be cool to see this "send"????

In reply to smithers25:

You'll have to wait for the next Dosage film to come out. It is in the can though! 3 separate camera's were trained on him apparently.

In reply to nigel pearson: Mouse hunting, Creationalist is seen as a major bonus to someone's election campaign whereas in the UK it would be the end of them.


The Economist thinks otherwise and that the UK needs MPs that the marginalised working and workless white can identify with. I am thinking of cancelling my subscription - bunch of pikey lovers.

In reply to various: Great. This takes the biscuit (or sends? it somewhere) even for UKC, 100+ posts and not a single factual comment on the route!

How long is it? How steep? Is it sustained or has it some seriously narly crux or even cruxes?

For most other routes there is some info around e.g. 8b into semi-rest, launch into V11 crux followed by 10m of 8a+ etc. etc.

Given that this has been a project for years would it be too much to hope for a factual description of the climbing?

In reply to TRNovice:

not dosage v as it only has catalunya featured and CB is down south.

In reply to Mark Stevenson:

250' long - it had a series of boulder problems in the middle with very, very poor rests and Sharma was missing out bolts in sets of three on previous redpoints and taking 100' falls - into air mostly, so clearly overhaning.

Leavitt envisaged it as a three-pitch climb - Sharma thought differently.

In reply to Morgan Woods:

Must have been the extras on King Lines then.

In reply to Mark Stevenson: the word on utube is that it's way harder than 5.14d- probably something like 5.15b or greater

where's the vid gone?

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Extended commentary on the bigup blog now.

In reply to TimS:

At http://www.bigupproductions.com/#/blog/399/ if you are too lazy to click!

In reply to Jon Redshaw:


Yes I know. Thanks. I was just pointing out another silly climbing word.

In reply to TRNovice:

From the comments section: -

"All well and good but I bet you've not climbed 'Right route' at the Roaches..." Dave - Sept 13th

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Steve Mac extended road trip?!

In reply to simes303: No, you were being a prat!

In reply to Mark Stevenson:

You are going have to pay attention Mark. This is all from the news reports and associated links.

This line up the Monastery, that would be third tier of Clark Mountain

History and Location here in this UKClimbing.com article: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=458

It is a 250ft pitch that was originally bolted by Randy Leavitt, who also discovered the crag high above Interstate 15.

Randy envisioned 3 pitches: Chris re-jigged it lead in one massive pitch.

He tried it last year, but the heat saw him off.

The limestone at Clark can be highly featured....even tufa/collonettes there. But at the Third Tier one wall is called the Wall of Glass, very smooth and hard limestone with few features..Tusk 8b+and Wall of Glass 8b+ breach this wall. To the left is Jumbo Pumping Hate a three pitch 8b.... I think Sharma's new line branches off of Jumbo....Randy called it Republic of Hate.....although there other extensions to other established routes on this wall. I'll check.

Chris has called the route Jumbo Love with a tentative grade of 9b... hardest route he is has done.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Nice contrast implied in these names between the snarly competitive 80s/ early 90s era and mellow mutually-supportive hippie 00s. Time for a backlash against the backlash perhaps?

In reply to tobyfk:

Other routes there.....No New Taxes.... Read My Lips...Greed.......Trickle Down...Hatelifting.....Vodoo Economics. Yes, Randy followed the WSJ.

In reply to tobyfk:

About time too. Why shouldn't we all help each other?

When Sharma was struggling with Realisation (for years) and Dave Graham, the most likely other contender, turned up, it's said that he gave him all the beta. There are precious few other places where this would happen.

Inspirational routes... and inspirational people.

Mick

In reply to Mark Stevenson:

"Basically the route warms up on a 60 foot 12d that is slightly overhanging. Then goes out a 50 degree overhang for about 150 or so feet. From the top of the 12d to the first set of chains half way out the roof is 14d. From that set of chains to the lip and end of the roof is really freakin hard. Turn the lip (unless he takes the 100 foot fall) and cruise up 80 more feet of 13c/d."

I just googled and found this information here...
http://www.erockonline.com/forum/upload/index.php?showtopic=1200&mode=t...

In reply to Mick Ward:

Absolutely. In that spirit can I have a free copy of your book?

In reply to Mick and teddy: Cheers.

80 metres of massive overhang - that does sound like a world class line.

In reply to tobyfk:

Sure. Will send you the link later. Hope it's of use.

Mick

In reply to dan bailey:

Oh how true.

Mick "'To own a hold'...what a lovely expression, add it to your lexicon.
" FFS its too early for p!ss taking wind up humour like that. As there is no way I can believe you actually mean that statement.......

Back OT, I've no doubt it's an unbelieveably impressive and benchmark climb. But the pictures of the rather dull samey looking limestone cliff doesn't do it justice.

100ft whippers sound fun tho! Even onto bolts......

In reply to Jon Redshaw:

There's no need to be rude. Highball my arse.