UKC

I've never been a great fan of Perrin, regarding him as a intellectual snob with a penchant for namedropping to gain credibility. However his latest article has, for me, plumbed new depths when he postulates that Brummie climbers arenot taken seriously because of their accents. What complete and utter balderdash!

In reply to JimR:

Should be simple to refute - simply name a Brummie climber we can all take seriously.

In reply to psd:

Name a Brummie we can understand, would be a good start! ;oP

In reply to psd:


Jasper Carrott

In reply to psd:

Jimmy Jewell and Rich Simpson spring to mind

In reply to JimR:

I think Ken Wilson's a Brummie.

In reply to JimR:

A certain Mr Stokes springs to mind.

In reply to Masood:

Howard from the Halifax.

I don't have an ax to grind against Brummies, and don't care one way or another for Perrin's suggestion -it just seemed the simplest way to refute his claim. The posts above suggest that he may have gone out on a limb.

Mind you, how many of these - like Noddy Houlder - are actually non-Brummies?

In reply to JimR:

After looking at this
http://www.heason.net/HTML/PortfolioDetail/HeasonEventsLecturerPortfolioDet...
How could anyone take him seriously !!!

In reply to GeoffM: good lord...

In reply to JimR: Is this in TGO?

In reply to redsulike:

Its in Climber

In reply to JimR: I know, it's terrible isn't it? Someone's written an article in a British climbing magazine that causes controversy and upset. It would be better if the mags were filled with aimless articles about how to tie a knot, what colour rope to buy, step by step instructions for classic routes and ten sides of pictures/commentary on the latest E10/11/12 ...yeah, that would be really interesting. Whether you agree with what he says or not (and it's not compulsory or, even, the point) thank god for Perrin and people like him who can still make an impact with the written word.

Cheerio!

In reply to martin k:

Wow.. So if I pen a diatribe of social stereotyping e.g. of how people mistrust Liverpudlians cos they'll nick any gear left lying around and that will be worthy of publication... jings I could have found the key to supplementing my pension!

In reply to GeoffM:
Tacking dangerously close to 'Pseud's Corner'. Still, 'The Villain' was a good read. Lent it to my son and he couldn't finish it. He said he got bogged down in 'all the boring stuff in the mointains'.

In reply to JimR: You've missed the point. We're not discussing anything you may write in the future. We're discussing an article in a UK climbing magazine that has generated a response. If your alleged article gets published, we can talk about that at the time.

Cheerio!

In reply to JimR:

I've never been a great fan of people who aren't a great fan of the great man of whom I'm a great fan.

I'm not a great fan of people who use 'balderdash' either.

In reply to JimR:

So let's get this sterotyping pinned down:

Brummies - funny, not to be taken seriously
Scousers - robbers, shifty
Geordies - fat, thick - though accent is musical
Mackems - like Geordies but with brains bashed out
Smoggy - like Mackems but brains turned to mush by poisons from local
industry (all gone but lingering effects)
Glaswegians - violent, unhealthy - eat mars bars in batter
Londoners - limp-wristed, decadent
Woolly-backs - thick though make dependable servants
Welsh - sheep worriers, though can sing a bit
Scots - parsimonious, anal

That'll do to get us going.

In reply to martin k:

With due respect, its you who's missing the point. Anyone can elicit a response by publishing provocative crap which adds little to an informed debate. If your measure of an article's success is that, then may I suggest you apply for a job with the Mail.

In reply to Jonno:


I've never been a fan of sheepshagging two faced welsh lard arses

In reply to JimR:

I thought Jim Perrin was from Manchester? Or do you mean Jonno?

In reply to Pekkie:

yeah forget the teaspoon, use a big stick instead

In reply to Pekkie:

I was hoping the cap might fit jonno

In reply to JimR:

Isn't being an actual intellectual a prerequisite for being an "intellectual snob"?

In reply to Jim:

If I'd have known that you were UKC's answer to DH Lawrence I would have left well alone.

In reply to JimR: "with due respect" is a mysterious phrase. what does it mean?

Anyway, what is this "informed debate" you talk of?

Cheerio!

In reply to JimR:

You couldn't go back and locate your hyphen key, could you? I'm stuck with an image of a flock of sheep, shagging two arses made of welsh lard - with faces on them. I'm sure that's not the intention, but it makes it rather hard to see the insult.

In reply to JimR:

>Anyone can elicit a response by publishing provocative crap which adds little to an informed debate.

Anyone who can write, that is.

jcm

In reply to martin k:

>"with due respect" is a mysterious phrase. what does it mean?

It's lawyerspeak for 'listen to me you f*ckwit'.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

>It's lawyerspeak for 'listen to me you f*ckwit'.

Not like sloper's 'moron' then.

In reply to Pekkie:


Ya forgot about the fu**in Irish. I mean come on!!!!

In reply to JimR: I'm from Birmingham, and people take me seriously as a climber. I think. But I don't sound like I'm from Birmingham. And I can't take anyone with that ludicrous accent seriously. Jim Perrin, however, is one of the finest climbing writers ever. His style might not suit some younger climbers who have been fed a stream of the sterile, substanceless writing that is so prevalent these days, but it's true to say that Perrin has, for decades, provided us with some of the most thoughtful and meaningful writing about this ridiculous pursuit.

In reply to martin k:

Just spotted another page of paranoid drivel in the same publication by one Martin_K, if that's you then a bit of therapy as well as new job probably would'nt go amiss. If I had'nt had it on subscription I certainly would'nt have wasted £3.40 for that particular issue!

In reply to JimR: No Perrin has not lost it completely Jim, he never had it to start with.

In reply to JimR
As a Liverpudlian I can confirm the accuracy of the above. Now where are your car keys?

In reply to Pekkie:


I see Sheffielders are immune from that list, quite rightly of course, though I think you might have included............. No Mancunians produced Brown and Whillans (and Sutty) so I'll scrap that. Anytown is forgiven for anything if they did that.

In reply to mrjonathanr:

You're welcome to them, you'll find the car resting on bricks outside Anfield

In reply to mrjonathanr: You're the worst kind of scouser, one without the accent so we all relax around you

In reply to Removed User:

"top O the morn'n"

In reply to JimR:


Quite right. Trolling it's called on the internet.

I'd also add I've never found his writing remotely interesting and often it's come across as somewhat pretentious.

In reply to JimR:


Recognition at last! That is me! (I've been doing that page for three years and you've only just noticed?)

Here are some questions for you:

1) Why is it "paranoid drivel"
2) Why do I need therapy?
3) Why should I get a new job?
4) Are you this rude in real life?

Cheerio!

In reply to Graeme Alderson:
Yes but at least I don't idolize Roy Keane

In reply to JimR:

Anfield eh? You got taste.

In reply to martin k:

Actually ... I have noticed your page before (being a subscriber for the last couple of years, beecause it came bundled with my BMC subsciption) so your opening statement , as well as exhibiting classic signs of paranoia, is also incorrect.

4) Yes.. and I use a lot worse words!

In reply to martin k:

Point 3:
Thought you wanted to be a sniper in a special forces unit?

In reply to JimR:

In the dim and distant past, when Franco was at primary school and we posted on 386 machines I mentioned that when I sat down to read Perrins articles there was a dictionary at my side to translate some things for me.

OK, so he is contentious at times, flowery with his language, but he still has some good books out, and anthologies of his articles of which I have two so he is not doing everything wrong. Just a lot of the time he will get up your nose, at least it makes you think, and elicits response unlike some writers.

Birmingham has produced some good climbers, hell they even have clubs there for people to join;

http://www.caveandcrag.co.uk/
http://www.ceunant.org/
http://www.ukclimbing.com/listings/?t=club

In reply to Masood: now this i find quiet offencive i live just out side birmingham and how anyone can say an accent definces intelligence is utter bull.

In reply to hunted by a panda:
It's all about perception.
It is perceived that Brummies are thick, Weegies are violent and folk from Edinburgh are fannies.

In reply to hunted by a panda:

Quite right. Spelling provides a much better guide.

In reply to Hay:

Plus people who call it the peaks are stupid.

In reply to mrjonathanr: ok so my spelling might not be top notch but hey maybe im multi-tasking or can't we do that either?

In reply to hunted by a panda:
Jury's out on that one

In reply to hunted by a panda: Apparently not. Spelling AND grammar at the same time?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

he is and so is mr b newman

In reply to brian a: Now that's not really in Birmingham's favour, is it?

In reply to JimR: Thanks for not answering my questions. If you had valid points to make I would've been interested. You don't like what I write? That's OK, I'm not writing to be popular. I'm writing to express a point of view and to lionize the work of the BMC's volunteers. I look forward to meeting you and your use of "a lot worse words".

Cheerio!
x

PS you should substitute "classic signs of paranoia" for "classic use of sarcasm" (you didn't think I was being serious, did you?)!

In reply to brian a:

I'm not sure Solihull counts as Birmingham!

In reply to sutty: I did the Amone slab with Cliff Phillips - pretty competent 60s climber and ace soloist. Also survived a 200' fall on Black Spring, remember that?

He had an accent that would cut glass!

In reply to martin k:
You don't like what I write? That's OK, I'm not writing to be popular. I'm writing to express a point of view and to lionize the work of the BMC's volunteers.


Mr K, this thread was not about you, although you've done your best to make yourself the centre of attention yet again.
The drivel you pen adds nothing and detracts a lot from the fine work you and your volunteers do.

In reply to JimR: Scrap! Scrap! Oooerrr! There's going to be a fight!

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

>He had an accent that would cut glass!

Diamond geezer?

I had mixed feelings about Cliff, sometimes I liked him and others thought he was a plonker but he could climb. Took too much weed etc for my liking.

Wasn't Harry Smith a brummy, along with Stokes?

In reply to Dave Garnett:

He does have a touch of brum in his accent though, was it Dave (thingy) that had the Samoyed, he was a good climber with a brummy accent.

In reply to Dave Garnett: Solihull certainly does count as Birmingham. Solihull includes Chelmsley Wood, and that is about as Birmingham as anything can be.

In reply to sutty: Yes, funny guy, apparently a speed skater before he came a climber. To celebrate our ascent and escape from the slab (in a storm!) he stole industrial quantities of Toblerone - another thing he was noted for.

In reply to JimR:

I like his articles - it might be name-dropping but it's historically interesting to me...

Him and John Horscroft are literally the only reason i buy climber every so often!

In reply to sutty:

George "Scottie" Dwyer was a Brummie too, although that's going back a bit now. However he was pretty usufeul in starting the MRT's in Snowdonia, and his sliding nut could've made a significant difference to climbing as we know it today. Shame he was so ethical!

In reply to JimR:

As has been pointed out above, its called trolling and no-one think its clever on the internet; however put it in print and throw a few flowery phrases in there and some people will marvel at the wit.

I love the way people who admire his pretentious drivel like to condescendingly assume that those who don't like it aren't clever enough to 'get it'.

In reply to withey:

Aye, that's where ethics get you!

Mick

In reply to Wilbur:


Well, is it name-dropping? Jim (oops, name-dropping??) climbed on pretty well equal terms with most of the people he mentions. If you've been around long enough, you just can't help knowing many of the famous... and the infamous.

Apart from Sutty, Al and Norrie (I still miss him) on here, there are precious few chroniclers of our fascinating history. If Jim's not telling these stories, they will be lost to the wider climbing public... Most of the time he does a great job of it.

(Irish!) Mick

P.S. And I'm sure he's sat in the Ariege now, having a good chuckle.

In reply to withey:

How do you know of Scottie, he was almost pension age when I started. Used to guide and when not busy give advice in one of the climbing shops, maybe Arvons in Bethesda. Soft spoken, nice bloke but no brummy accent I recall.

In reply to sutty:

Used to work with his son. He was my manager.

In reply to Removed User:

Sorry, incomplete list. My apologies:

Irish: look thick but very sly. Eyes set close together. Purloined 'loads a money' from Europe and America to become rich.
Mancunians: uncouth, hairy and inbred. Liam Gallagher? I rest my case.
Sheffielders: incomprehensible dialect (Tin tin tin = It isn't in the tin). Even more inbred than Mancunians to level of six fingered gloves and infertility.
Boltonites: uncilvilised, unwashed, uneducated and proud of it. Don't realise that Big Sam's were the golden years and that they're going down with Blackburn. Climbing at Wilton is like a cross between Deliverance and The League of Gentlemen.

Anyone I've not insulted? Anyone from the island of Portland?