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Does anyone know roughly what time they are expecte to finish today?
In reply to CarbonCopy: if this is the cycling,what time they start as well please. I'm stuck with a hospital ppv tv
In reply to CarbonCopy: started at 10 and due to finish 4.30 of course that depends how fast they ride live on the red botton .
In reply to David Hooper: It started at 10:00, not sure what time the TV coverage starts as i'm stuck at work with no TV
Been going over 1hr 15mins. Breakaway group out by 4.5 minutes. Finish iPlayer 16.25.
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Road race already under way, expected to finish around 4
Road race already under way, expected to finish around 4
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Pretty classy break up the road. Perhaps that will work in GB's favour and settle things down a bit.
Pretty classy break up the road. Perhaps that will work in GB's favour and settle things down a bit.
In reply to DaveHK:
I do hope so. Altho the Aussies are looking dangerous. Not sure I can bear to watch the last hour to the finish to be honest. ;-(
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
Perhaps that will work in GB's favour and settle things down a bit.>
I do hope so. Altho the Aussies are looking dangerous. Not sure I can bear to watch the last hour to the finish to be honest. ;-(
In reply to DaveHK:
Having O Grady and now Rogers up the road would probably not help though. If the Aussies were working exclusively for Goss they may pull back the break, but may be less inclined with two riders in that break. Still a long way to to though, and much can happen.
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> Pretty classy break up the road. Perhaps that will work in GB's favour and settle things down a bit.
>
> Pretty classy break up the road. Perhaps that will work in GB's favour and settle things down a bit.
Having O Grady and now Rogers up the road would probably not help though. If the Aussies were working exclusively for Goss they may pull back the break, but may be less inclined with two riders in that break. Still a long way to to though, and much can happen.
In reply to CarbonCopy:
I think that it looks like everyone is riding negatively to deny a Cav the win rather than actually trying to go and win the race. The rest of the peloton are just sitting back and letting team GB do all the work, so I hope that they're as strong as they're supposed to be, because it looks like they will be doing all the work for the next few hours.
I think that it looks like everyone is riding negatively to deny a Cav the win rather than actually trying to go and win the race. The rest of the peloton are just sitting back and letting team GB do all the work, so I hope that they're as strong as they're supposed to be, because it looks like they will be doing all the work for the next few hours.
In reply to Phil Payne:
Can't really blame them can you? No point in helping the chase when its almost a dead cert that Cav will win from a bunch sprint. The only person that might give him a run for his money is Greipel so perhaps we'll see the germans helping a bit more. Also there are lots of countries represented in the break so even less motivation to chase.
> (In reply to CarbonCopy)
>
> I think that it looks like everyone is riding negatively to deny a Cav the win rather than actually trying to go and win the race.
>
> I think that it looks like everyone is riding negatively to deny a Cav the win rather than actually trying to go and win the race.
Can't really blame them can you? No point in helping the chase when its almost a dead cert that Cav will win from a bunch sprint. The only person that might give him a run for his money is Greipel so perhaps we'll see the germans helping a bit more. Also there are lots of countries represented in the break so even less motivation to chase.
In reply to DaveHK: This is going to be a hell of a chase when they reach the flat with 40km to go. I'm starting to think the break could stay away, sounds like no-one is keen to help GB, other than Tony Martin helping pull on the front.
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Starting to wonder if this is going to go belly up!
Starting to wonder if this is going to go belly up!
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Is that Hugh Porter commentating with Boardman?
"There will be a huge roar if Cavendish attacks" Idiot.
Is that Hugh Porter commentating with Boardman?
"There will be a huge roar if Cavendish attacks" Idiot.
In reply to slapperv6:
Hmm...Gap to break starting to come down fast. In Brailsford we trust!
> (In reply to CarbonCopy)
> Starting to wonder if this is going to go belly up!
> Starting to wonder if this is going to go belly up!
Hmm...Gap to break starting to come down fast. In Brailsford we trust!
In reply to CarbonCopy:
I think that they (team GB) should have seen this coming and maybe just gone for it really hard right from the start and tried to break everyone else.
I think that they (team GB) should have seen this coming and maybe just gone for it really hard right from the start and tried to break everyone else.
In reply to Phil Payne:
As has been said, they're not just going to help get Cav and GB to London fresh for the sprint. If you make GB work hard and hurt Cav early on it will make it more likely that they'll be able to attack in the closing stages and take a medal. This becomes more the case if they pull back the break, as those that have sat in the wheels may be a lot fresher.
It's the tactics of the different teams and how to play to your strengths whilst not allowing others play to their's is what makes it such a potentially thrilling sport.
> (In reply to CarbonCopy)
>
> I think that it looks like everyone is riding negatively to deny a Cav the win rather than actually trying to go and win the race. The rest of the peloton are just sitting back and letting team GB do all the work, so I hope that they're as strong as they're supposed to be, because it looks like they will be doing all the work for the next few hours.
>
> I think that it looks like everyone is riding negatively to deny a Cav the win rather than actually trying to go and win the race. The rest of the peloton are just sitting back and letting team GB do all the work, so I hope that they're as strong as they're supposed to be, because it looks like they will be doing all the work for the next few hours.
As has been said, they're not just going to help get Cav and GB to London fresh for the sprint. If you make GB work hard and hurt Cav early on it will make it more likely that they'll be able to attack in the closing stages and take a medal. This becomes more the case if they pull back the break, as those that have sat in the wheels may be a lot fresher.
It's the tactics of the different teams and how to play to your strengths whilst not allowing others play to their's is what makes it such a potentially thrilling sport.
In reply to Phil Payne: They will have predicted it to some extent, but with the numbers available they couldn't really expect to control the race for the whole 250k, so would just trash themselves long before the finish line if they went from the gun.
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Crap coverage......no time gaps or info about group composition....Should have used the French!!!!
Crap coverage......no time gaps or info about group composition....Should have used the French!!!!
In reply to Phil Payne:
Never would have worked with the laps of box hill in the way, am surprised they let the break get as far out as it did though. Mind you, only the British could have designed a course that made it so hard for one of their own riders! Any other country would have put the course in Norfolk if they had a sprinter like Cav.
> (In reply to CarbonCopy)
>
> I think that they (team GB) should have seen this coming and maybe just gone for it really hard right from the start and tried to break everyone else.
>
> I think that they (team GB) should have seen this coming and maybe just gone for it really hard right from the start and tried to break everyone else.
Never would have worked with the laps of box hill in the way, am surprised they let the break get as far out as it did though. Mind you, only the British could have designed a course that made it so hard for one of their own riders! Any other country would have put the course in Norfolk if they had a sprinter like Cav.
In reply to andy guppy: cyclingnews.com has a decent text feed for following the details.
In reply to CarbonCopy: guardian reports breakaway group at 5 min 14 sec ahead of peloton. At 13.26 the gap is 3 min 25 sec. Come on GB!
In reply to stonemaster: sorry, first time difference was at 12.18
In reply to stonemaster: at 13.41 the gap is 2 min 20 sec. Is it too early to put a can of lager in the fridge?
In reply to CarbonCopy: The Nibali break looks pegged and the original break looks largely cooked. Could all be coming back together before long. Will a so far relatively quiet Boonen and Cancellara be getting slightly twitchy before long?
In reply to stonemaster:
Put one it? I've just taken one out!
> (In reply to stonemaster) Is it too early to put a can of lager in the fridge?
Put one it? I've just taken one out!
What a fantastic spectator event!
I can't think of another event that would keep your interest even when the leaders have a 5 minute lead. But the tactics and team collaboration here makes it really intriguing as almost anything could potentially happen.
Go team GB!
I can't think of another event that would keep your interest even when the leaders have a 5 minute lead. But the tactics and team collaboration here makes it really intriguing as almost anything could potentially happen.
Go team GB!
In reply to DaveHK: Quick! Put another in!....
In reply to stonemaster:
I think I'm ahead of you there...
> (In reply to Dave Kerr) Quick! Put another in!....
I think I'm ahead of you there...
In reply to john arran:
And on another note: what's going on with the bbci player live feed not having a full screen option?
I can maximise the window but that only gives me a video window of about half the screen size. Any tips for getting it to show full screen?
And on another note: what's going on with the bbci player live feed not having a full screen option?
I can maximise the window but that only gives me a video window of about half the screen size. Any tips for getting it to show full screen?
In reply to DaveHK: Have to say I would quite like to see a Boonen and Cancellara break after the final climb if it all comes back together before then.
In reply to john arran:
I've an icon in the top RHS of the video feed that gives a true full screen.
I've an icon in the top RHS of the video feed that gives a true full screen.
In reply to john arran:
If the break is less than about 4 mins after the last climb of Box Hill then it's basically going to be a sprint finish (I reckon).
Following on from my thread on Box Hill - has anyone timed how quick these riders are up it?
ALC
If the break is less than about 4 mins after the last climb of Box Hill then it's basically going to be a sprint finish (I reckon).
Following on from my thread on Box Hill - has anyone timed how quick these riders are up it?
ALC
In reply to Mike_Watson_99:
Bugger. I don't!
> (In reply to john arran)
> I've an icon in the top RHS of the video feed that gives a true full screen.
> I've an icon in the top RHS of the video feed that gives a true full screen.
Bugger. I don't!
In reply to DaveHK: That you are. No beer in the house! grr. Off to the offie I'll be back (in Arnie voice)
In reply to a lakeland climber: With the way the Germans have been avoiding coming to the front so far, I wonder if they'll pull on the flat, in which case I'd be inclined to agree, though I expect there will be quite a few opportunistic attacks that might get close.
In reply to CarbonCopy:
It really is dreadful commentary on BBC. Partly down to Porter who is a duffer but mainly due to lack of info on gaps and riders present in breaks.
In ten mins I'm off to Eurosport for some pearls of wisdom from Sean 'Father Jack' Kelly
It really is dreadful commentary on BBC. Partly down to Porter who is a duffer but mainly due to lack of info on gaps and riders present in breaks.
In ten mins I'm off to Eurosport for some pearls of wisdom from Sean 'Father Jack' Kelly
In reply to CarbonCopy:
I wonder if a deal has been done for someone else to give Cav a bit of a lead out? Does that kind of thing still happen?
The fact that Cav is sitting in Eisel's wheel makes me wonder.
We'll probably never know.
I wonder if a deal has been done for someone else to give Cav a bit of a lead out? Does that kind of thing still happen?
The fact that Cav is sitting in Eisel's wheel makes me wonder.
We'll probably never know.
In reply to john arran:
In case it may be helpful to anyone else I seem now to have full screen, after reloading the website and choosing the default player (which I thought I had chosen the first time), then, when presented with a black video with sound, right-clicking for Settings and unticking Hardware Acceleration.
Happy now
In case it may be helpful to anyone else I seem now to have full screen, after reloading the website and choosing the default player (which I thought I had chosen the first time), then, when presented with a black video with sound, right-clicking for Settings and unticking Hardware Acceleration.
Happy now
In reply to DaveHK: I think EBH and Eisel have alluded that they may help Cav if they have no one else to work for. It must be strange being someone's teammate for every day except the Olympics and Worlds, and they may be a natural gravitation to their pro team colleagues.
In reply to CarbonCopy: this must be one of the most attended sportin events ever in the uk.amazing amount of people.a finish like the tour with wiggins leading around the last few corners to a cav finish will be the highlight of th whole games.
In reply to CarbonCopy: Looks like team GB have let this one get away from them. They shouldn't have let that lead group get so big with all those danger guys in it.
In reply to Phil Payne:
57 secs and 33k is far from over. They don't want to make the catch too early.
> (In reply to CarbonCopy) Looks like team GB have let this one get away from them. They shouldn't have let that lead group get so big with all those danger guys in it.
57 secs and 33k is far from over. They don't want to make the catch too early.
In reply to DaveHK: don't want to make it too late either!
In reply to DaveHK: 'over a minute now'..
In reply to AlisonSmiles:
Thats Froome dropped out. Gap seems to be increasing too! I hate to say it but I think it's too late.
Hoping to be proved wrong though!
Thats Froome dropped out. Gap seems to be increasing too! I hate to say it but I think it's too late.
Hoping to be proved wrong though!
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Over a minute now. Spartacus for the win? I can live with that. Sanchez is there and has some awesome form.
Over a minute now. Spartacus for the win? I can live with that. Sanchez is there and has some awesome form.
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Lars Boom likes a late dig too...
I'll be behind the sofa in a minute watching from between my fingers.
Lars Boom likes a late dig too...
I'll be behind the sofa in a minute watching from between my fingers.
In reply to CarbonCopy: Oooh, I think it's too late. I'm twitching...
In reply to CarbonCopy:
It's not even really a break it's like the splits you get when there are cross winds.
The lack of race radio has definately made a difference here.
It's not even really a break it's like the splits you get when there are cross winds.
The lack of race radio has definately made a difference here.
In reply to CarbonCopy: Cancellera crashes!
In reply to DaveHK:
Yep...it's a peleton chasing a peleton, with more people willing to work in the front group than in the rear.
> (In reply to CarbonCopy)
>
> It's not even really a break it's like the splits you get when there are cross winds.
>
>
> It's not even really a break it's like the splits you get when there are cross winds.
>
Yep...it's a peleton chasing a peleton, with more people willing to work in the front group than in the rear.
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Team GB are having a club day out. Num Num is surprised that they've not stopped for a coffee.
Team GB are having a club day out. Num Num is surprised that they've not stopped for a coffee.
In reply to Morgan Woods:
Aargh! What's happening? (At work and the cycling newsfeed hasn't caught up)
> (In reply to CarbonCopy) Cancellera crashes!
Aargh! What's happening? (At work and the cycling newsfeed hasn't caught up)
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Need a time gap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Need a time gap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to CarbonCopy:
56 seconds........too late now :[
56 seconds........too late now :[
In reply to DaveHK:
If that's the gap, I agree. If Cav wasn't going to win then my preference would have been for Cancellara, so gutted on 2 levels
> (In reply to andy guppy)
>
> 58 secs. It's over for cav I'd say.
>
> 58 secs. It's over for cav I'd say.
If that's the gap, I agree. If Cav wasn't going to win then my preference would have been for Cancellara, so gutted on 2 levels
In reply to thermal_t:
Yup me too. Looking at that break I'd like it to go to Chavanel but seems unlikely.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
> [...]
>
> If that's the gap, I agree. If Cav wasn't going to win then my preference would have been for Cancellara, so gutted on 2 levels
> [...]
>
> If that's the gap, I agree. If Cav wasn't going to win then my preference would have been for Cancellara, so gutted on 2 levels
Yup me too. Looking at that break I'd like it to go to Chavanel but seems unlikely.
In reply to thermal_t: Okay, put the dissapointment behind me. Now rooting for Van Garderen for the win if we can't have a GB winner.
In reply to CarbonCopy: I'm gutted.
In reply to thermal_t:
Why? I like the guy, impressive at his age to still be going strong, especially after the broken femur..
> (In reply to Enty)
> [...]
>
> Agree!
> [...]
>
> Agree!
Why? I like the guy, impressive at his age to still be going strong, especially after the broken femur..
In reply to Enty:
But isn't he just the man for the big occasion?
> (In reply to CarbonCopy)
>
> Please please please not Vino.
>
> E
>
> Please please please not Vino.
>
> E
But isn't he just the man for the big occasion?
In reply to IainRUK:
Drug cheat.
> (In reply to thermal_t)
> [...]
>
> Why? I like the guy, impressive at his age to still be going strong, especially after the broken femur..
> [...]
>
> Why? I like the guy, impressive at his age to still be going strong, especially after the broken femur..
Drug cheat.
f*ck sakes
In reply to DaveHK:
Although I have to admit to a grudging admiration for him.
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> [...]
>
> Drug cheat.
> [...]
>
> Drug cheat.
Although I have to admit to a grudging admiration for him.
In reply to Submit to Gravity: Think there might be quite a few of us feeling sick for Cav, but has it come too close to the Tour or did we just get the tactics wrong??
In reply to DaveHK:
...and the fact he never had the decency to apologise or speak about it.
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> [...]
>
> Drug cheat.
> [...]
>
> Drug cheat.
...and the fact he never had the decency to apologise or speak about it.
In reply to bluebealach: I blame the Germans.
In reply to PeterM:
Not sure Vinokourov has shown much contrition, but I could be wrong.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
> [...]
>
> - but Millar's ok?
> [...]
>
> - but Millar's ok?
Not sure Vinokourov has shown much contrition, but I could be wrong.
In reply to bluebealach:
Tactics can only take you so far, today events outstripped tactics. Impossible to chase down such a big split with only 4 riders.
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity) Think there might be quite a few of us feeling sick for Cav, but has it come too close to the Tour or did we just get the tactics wrong??
Tactics can only take you so far, today events outstripped tactics. Impossible to chase down such a big split with only 4 riders.
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Well they bombed our chippy!!
> (In reply to bluebealach) I blame the Germans.
Well they bombed our chippy!!
In reply to DaveHK: Gutted....
In reply to bluebealach: Both.. I can't see how there wouldn't be some sort of mental and physical tiredness.. TBH though I'd take a TDF victory over olympic gold any day..
Be interesting to see how wiggins does in the time trial, he should be right in the mix.
Be interesting to see how wiggins does in the time trial, he should be right in the mix.
In reply to PeterM:
The important difference is Millers attitude to his ban. He's genuinely sorry and wants to improve cycling. Don't recall hearing any comment from Vino.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
> [...]
>
> - but Millar's ok?
> [...]
>
> - but Millar's ok?
The important difference is Millers attitude to his ban. He's genuinely sorry and wants to improve cycling. Don't recall hearing any comment from Vino.
In reply to DaveHK: Wouldn't disagree Dave, but seems that with certain other teams not prepared to take their turn at the front of the pelaton, we were maybe on a hiding to nothing over such a long race and with (as you say)such a small number of riders in the team.....only thoughts.
In reply to CarbonCopy: Vino's interview at the finish was unintelligible but he still made more sense than Hugh Porter...
In reply to stouffer:
I did like the way he referred to GB as Sky. He's not far wrong.
> (In reply to CarbonCopy) Vino's interview at the finish was unintelligible but he still made more sense than Hugh Porter...
I did like the way he referred to GB as Sky. He's not far wrong.
In reply to Mooncat: I suppose I'm not that anti drugs, as long as they are clean now.. which with todays testings we must assume everyone to be until proven otherwise.
If they genuinely regret it, they will stay clean. I know Miller has apologised but what choice did he have if he wanted a lucrative career in cycling? Call me a cynic but I don't put that much value in the words, I'd rather just see them remain clean from then on.
If they genuinely regret it, they will stay clean. I know Miller has apologised but what choice did he have if he wanted a lucrative career in cycling? Call me a cynic but I don't put that much value in the words, I'd rather just see them remain clean from then on.
In reply to DaveHK: Whatever his past I thought it was pretty rude that all Jill Douglas could do was say "Well that wasn't the result we wanted"
In reply to stouffer:
Agreed. Pretty partisan reporting. You can take comfort in the fact that even if he understood he certainly doesn't give a toss.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr) Whatever his past I thought it was pretty rude that all Jill Douglas could do was say "Well that wasn't the result we wanted"
Agreed. Pretty partisan reporting. You can take comfort in the fact that even if he understood he certainly doesn't give a toss.
In reply to DaveHK: Yup. And anyway Sky did get on the podium again...
In reply to Liam M:
Well I called that one wrong! Looks like no-one was willing to help GB pull the break back. I didn't realise that the break was over 30 strong. With the names they had in there it was going to be a hard act to pull back.
I hope Cancellara isn't too badly hurt, it looked a nasty crash and he seemed to be holding his shoulder oddly afterwards.
Vino hinted that this would be his last race when interviewed afterwards.
ALC
Well I called that one wrong! Looks like no-one was willing to help GB pull the break back. I didn't realise that the break was over 30 strong. With the names they had in there it was going to be a hard act to pull back.
I hope Cancellara isn't too badly hurt, it looked a nasty crash and he seemed to be holding his shoulder oddly afterwards.
Vino hinted that this would be his last race when interviewed afterwards.
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber: I thought G.B were trying to be to cute the break should never have got away like it did ..
In reply to victorclimber:
The problem wasn't the original break but the talent that bridged to it.
> (In reply to a lakeland climber) I thought G.B were trying to be to cute the break should never have got away like it did ..
The problem wasn't the original break but the talent that bridged to it.
In reply to a lakeland climber: I'm still very surprised at Germany. The sprint of the pack may have been slightly half hearted but showed that Greipel had good legs, but they seemed rather indifferent about putting in a consistent turn on the front.
Though Stannard did an impressive job that you hope he'll be rewarded for in the future.
Though Stannard did an impressive job that you hope he'll be rewarded for in the future.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
If GB didn't have a rider in the break there's no reason for anyone to help because it's just another Mark Cavendish benefit race. I don't know why they didn't try to get Millar or someone else into the break to take some pressure off the rest of the team.
If GB didn't have a rider in the break there's no reason for anyone to help because it's just another Mark Cavendish benefit race. I don't know why they didn't try to get Millar or someone else into the break to take some pressure off the rest of the team.
In reply to Liam M:
Me too. I'd have thought they would have been happy to chase on the basis that Greipel was at least in with a chance against Cav. I reckon Andre will be fizzing after that.
> (In reply to a lakeland climber) I'm still very surprised at Germany.
Me too. I'd have thought they would have been happy to chase on the basis that Greipel was at least in with a chance against Cav. I reckon Andre will be fizzing after that.
In reply to Mooncat:
Because no rider in the GB team stood a chance in a break. None of them are one day specialists. If it came to a sprint however Cav was as close to a dead cert as it gets.
I can't fault the tactics it's just that events outstripped the tactics. That's what makes it exciting!
> (In reply to a lakeland climber)
>
> I don't know why they didn't try to get Millar or someone else into the break to take some pressure off the rest of the team.
>
> I don't know why they didn't try to get Millar or someone else into the break to take some pressure off the rest of the team.
Because no rider in the GB team stood a chance in a break. None of them are one day specialists. If it came to a sprint however Cav was as close to a dead cert as it gets.
I can't fault the tactics it's just that events outstripped the tactics. That's what makes it exciting!
In reply to DaveHK: Do you not think its a bit of a Sky backlash, they've spent 3 weeks being dominated and controlled by sky so thought sod GB and didn't help out...
In reply to DaveHK: It was odd. Shame that O'Grady was in the break otherwise the Aussies might have pulled too.
In reply to DaveHK: Not a one day specialist in the mold of Gilbert etc, but Millar I would have thought could hold his own. Though in a none radio race by making him road captain that option was pretty much killed.
In reply to IainRUK: Though it was largely a bit of a lack of track style sprinting nous that got Sky silver instead of gold!
In reply to Liam M:
Not in a break of that quality.
I don't see what else they could have done. When you've got the best sprinter in the world in your team, a relatively flat course and the remainder of the team made up of solid tempo riders there really is only one game plan.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr) Not a one day specialist in the mold of Gilbert etc, but Millar I would have thought could hold his own.
Not in a break of that quality.
I don't see what else they could have done. When you've got the best sprinter in the world in your team, a relatively flat course and the remainder of the team made up of solid tempo riders there really is only one game plan.
In reply to DaveHK:
Dave Millar is one of the best finishers around from a small break, think back to the TDF wins he's had.
Dave Millar is one of the best finishers around from a small break, think back to the TDF wins he's had.
In reply to Mooncat:
What? 2 wins in over 10 years and one when he was on the juice? Hardly convincing. Plus it wasn't a small break, it was a huge split with some of the best one day riders in the world. You can't compare tour stages to one day races.
Do you really think Millar could have won from a break? No chance, and if he had got in a break and lost everyone would be saying 'why wasn't he chasing down breaks for the best sprinter in the world'
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
>
> Dave Millar is one of the best finishers around from a small break, think back to the TDF wins he's had.
>
> Dave Millar is one of the best finishers around from a small break, think back to the TDF wins he's had.
What? 2 wins in over 10 years and one when he was on the juice? Hardly convincing. Plus it wasn't a small break, it was a huge split with some of the best one day riders in the world. You can't compare tour stages to one day races.
Do you really think Millar could have won from a break? No chance, and if he had got in a break and lost everyone would be saying 'why wasn't he chasing down breaks for the best sprinter in the world'
In reply to Mooncat: Putting someone in the break would have made it even less feasible to get the break back though. I think anyone who watches cycling always knew it was going to be a long shot, the disappointing thing for me is all the commentators who have been talking about it like a guaranteed gold medal are now talking about it like it's a disastrous failure.
In reply to stouffer:
Most people don't understand how much of a lottery a one day race is.
> (In reply to Mooncat) I think anyone who watches cycling always knew it was going to be a long shot
Most people don't understand how much of a lottery a one day race is.
In reply to CarbonCopy: but if millar got in the break he could of just have sat in there and not worked . why would he work to keep the break away with the fastest sprinter on the team. then he would have been fresh for the finish either from the break ,or if it all came back together. team GB were never going to control the race with a 5 man team , as soon as it became clear they were on their own in chasing they needed a plan b .tony martin did help a bit but 1 man wasn`t enough.
In reply to stouffer:
My point is they wouldn't have needed to chase the breakaway with a rider already in it, even if it is just a bluff. With a rider like Millar it wouldn't have been a bluff and the other teams would know that.
My point is they wouldn't have needed to chase the breakaway with a rider already in it, even if it is just a bluff. With a rider like Millar it wouldn't have been a bluff and the other teams would know that.
In reply to tim000:
And so even less likely to control it with only 3 chasers and totally unlikely to win from the break with any of their riders.
> (In reply to CarbonCopy) team GB were never going to control the race with a 5 man team
And so even less likely to control it with only 3 chasers and totally unlikely to win from the break with any of their riders.
In reply to Mooncat:
I think you have a slightly inflated idea of Millar's ability. He's never won a classic and to my knowledge not even been close. He is good at riding tempo to chase down breaks though so the tactic played to the team strengths.
> (In reply to stouffer)
>
> My point is they wouldn't have needed to chase the breakaway with a rider already in it, even if it is just a bluff. With a rider like Millar it wouldn't have been a bluff and the other teams would know that.
>
> My point is they wouldn't have needed to chase the breakaway with a rider already in it, even if it is just a bluff. With a rider like Millar it wouldn't have been a bluff and the other teams would know that.
I think you have a slightly inflated idea of Millar's ability. He's never won a classic and to my knowledge not even been close. He is good at riding tempo to chase down breaks though so the tactic played to the team strengths.
In reply to Moonlit: Even then no-one else might have bothered. The Germans and Griepel did nowt. Getting the break back was always the best shot but it just wasn't to be today, plenty of teams with riders in the break so no reason to chase and yeah maybe a touch of anti-Sky/GB sentiment. Cav pretty much summed it up in his interview by saying there were still 70-odd riders in the peloton but only 3 were pulling, so what's the point of the others being there?
In reply to DaveHK:
I think you have a slightly underinflated idea of Milllar's ability. He's still a borderline world class time triallist and a very underrated sprinter.
I understand your point but other than getting someone in a break or the rest of the bunch playing along nicely with GB's plan we were never going to get a result.
I think you have a slightly underinflated idea of Milllar's ability. He's still a borderline world class time triallist and a very underrated sprinter.
I understand your point but other than getting someone in a break or the rest of the bunch playing along nicely with GB's plan we were never going to get a result.
In reply to stouffer: Anyway back to business. Froome for la Vuelta anyone?
In reply to Mooncat:
It's very easy to say that now but bear in mind that at one point the gap was under 50 seconds and it looked like it would be closed. Plus I think everyone expected the Germans to help with the chase.
Whilst it was always going to be a lottery Cav represented by far our best chance, anything else was just a shot in the dark.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
>
> > I understand your point but other than getting someone in a break or the rest of the bunch playing along nicely with GB's plan we were never going to get a result.
>
> > I understand your point but other than getting someone in a break or the rest of the bunch playing along nicely with GB's plan we were never going to get a result.
It's very easy to say that now but bear in mind that at one point the gap was under 50 seconds and it looked like it would be closed. Plus I think everyone expected the Germans to help with the chase.
Whilst it was always going to be a lottery Cav represented by far our best chance, anything else was just a shot in the dark.
In reply to Mooncat:
I agree with you on the time triallist point but Millar is no sprinter. 2 wins in sprints from small breaks in the tour does not qualify him as a sprinter.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
>
> He's still a borderline world class time triallist and a very underrated sprinter.
>
>
> He's still a borderline world class time triallist and a very underrated sprinter.
>
I agree with you on the time triallist point but Millar is no sprinter. 2 wins in sprints from small breaks in the tour does not qualify him as a sprinter.
In reply to DaveHK:
2 wins in sprints from small breaks in the tour does not qualify him as a sprinter.
I think unless your being deliberately obtuse you'd have got my meaning about Millar's sprinting, he'll beat most outside the recognised sprinters.
Anyway there was no plan B and unless the tacticians were naive they should have thought what ended up happening was a strong possibility, I stand by my opinion that Millar would be the best man to have a go.
> (In reply to Mooncat)
2 wins in sprints from small breaks in the tour does not qualify him as a sprinter.
I think unless your being deliberately obtuse you'd have got my meaning about Millar's sprinting, he'll beat most outside the recognised sprinters.
Anyway there was no plan B and unless the tacticians were naive they should have thought what ended up happening was a strong possibility, I stand by my opinion that Millar would be the best man to have a go.
In reply to Mooncat:
No I totally got your meaning but I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this. I don't think he would beat most outside of the recognised sprinters as you say and IIRC there have been several GT stages where that is exactly what happened. For example I'm pretty sure he would have had no answer to Vino's kick.
I'm not down on Millar, I think he's a classy rider but he's probably best categorised as a 'super-domestique' capable of the odd win but usually playing a supporting role.
I think accusing the GB managament of tactical naivety is a bit odd but perhaps you know best? . Naivety would be gambling on Millar from a break especially a break of that quality form which he would stand about a snowballs chance in hell.
No I totally got your meaning but I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this. I don't think he would beat most outside of the recognised sprinters as you say and IIRC there have been several GT stages where that is exactly what happened. For example I'm pretty sure he would have had no answer to Vino's kick.
I'm not down on Millar, I think he's a classy rider but he's probably best categorised as a 'super-domestique' capable of the odd win but usually playing a supporting role.
I think accusing the GB managament of tactical naivety is a bit odd but perhaps you know best? . Naivety would be gambling on Millar from a break especially a break of that quality form which he would stand about a snowballs chance in hell.
In reply to DaveHK:
Of course I do.
> (In reply to Mooncat)
>
> I think accusing the GB managament of tactical naivety is a bit odd but perhaps you know best? .
> I think accusing the GB managament of tactical naivety is a bit odd but perhaps you know best? .
Of course I do.
In reply to DaveHK: As a purely hypothetical musing, can anyone think of any current British riders who could perform the role of being sprung up the road in a one day race like today and have a strong chance?
Was working today so just watched the last hour of the race recorded from earlier. Obviously really disappointed about the result but c'est la vie, thats sport for you.
The biggest disappointment to me was the BBC coverage. No timings totally kills it, I know they said it was outwith their control - WHY?? Didn't they bother to check beforehand how they'd obtain info and present the race?
The final corner, the commentators raving about the last 500m and we're left with the camera facing where they've just come from for a good few seconds. Then after the first two cross the line we're focussed on the winner whilst theres a great race for bronze going on .. even Hugh Porter said "give us a shot please"
And as for Hugh Porter..!! Mixing up Griepel racing for 4th when 30 riders had come in beforehand. I don't dislike Porter but he is hopeless. The number of times in a 2 man race in the velodrome and he shouts out the wrong one in the lead or that has just won. Surely its a fairly important part of his job!! And what a ridiculously worded question from Jill Douglas to a guy whose just won a Gold medal.
After being part of ITV4's brilliant coverage of the Tour, Chris Boardman must be embarrassed to be part of that shambles!!!
I'm not on Twitter but presenters are always reading out inane messages from folk, so I'd like to contribute mine and request they never bid for a cycling race again and leave it to other channels. How would I do this??
This wasn't intended to turn into quite the rant it appears to have deteriorated into!!!
The biggest disappointment to me was the BBC coverage. No timings totally kills it, I know they said it was outwith their control - WHY?? Didn't they bother to check beforehand how they'd obtain info and present the race?
The final corner, the commentators raving about the last 500m and we're left with the camera facing where they've just come from for a good few seconds. Then after the first two cross the line we're focussed on the winner whilst theres a great race for bronze going on .. even Hugh Porter said "give us a shot please"
And as for Hugh Porter..!! Mixing up Griepel racing for 4th when 30 riders had come in beforehand. I don't dislike Porter but he is hopeless. The number of times in a 2 man race in the velodrome and he shouts out the wrong one in the lead or that has just won. Surely its a fairly important part of his job!! And what a ridiculously worded question from Jill Douglas to a guy whose just won a Gold medal.
After being part of ITV4's brilliant coverage of the Tour, Chris Boardman must be embarrassed to be part of that shambles!!!
I'm not on Twitter but presenters are always reading out inane messages from folk, so I'd like to contribute mine and request they never bid for a cycling race again and leave it to other channels. How would I do this??
This wasn't intended to turn into quite the rant it appears to have deteriorated into!!!
In reply to CarbonCopy: Coverage was utterly appalling today, no times, total nonsense talked, unable to correctly identify any riders or even correct nationalities etc etc
further, the "failure" of gb to catch the break was exclusively down to the Germans saving themselves for a sprint that never happened, precisely because they didn't contribute.
further, the "failure" of gb to catch the break was exclusively down to the Germans saving themselves for a sprint that never happened, precisely because they didn't contribute.
In reply to Paul035: I'm not sure the BBC had much control over it - the commentators were just propped in front of a monitor, with a feed from Olympic Broadcasting Serices. It's OBS that seem to be completely incompetent at providing the relevant information and footage. I'm not sure it would have been any better if ITV would have had the footage ( although you wouldn't have to suffer Porter).
Apparently the BBC have lodged a complaint with OBS so if we're lucky we might have more information during tomorrows race.
Apparently the BBC have lodged a complaint with OBS so if we're lucky we might have more information during tomorrows race.
In reply to fxceltic: Boardman's apologised on Twitter, but i think the pictures are provided by the limpicks themselves - OSB?
In reply to Liam M:
I think if Geraint Thomas focused on the road he might fall into this category but that's pure speculation.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr) As a purely hypothetical musing, can anyone think of any current British riders who could perform the role of being sprung up the road in a one day race like today and have a strong chance?
I think if Geraint Thomas focused on the road he might fall into this category but that's pure speculation.
In reply to andy:
Yes; the BBC is not the host broadcaster (this is also the reason why R4, R5 etc. are not available abroad at the moment).
> (In reply to fxceltic) Boardman's apologised on Twitter, but i think the pictures are provided by the limpicks themselves - OSB?
Yes; the BBC is not the host broadcaster (this is also the reason why R4, R5 etc. are not available abroad at the moment).
In reply to Paul035:
>>
Agree, absolutely shocking.
>>
>
And what a ridiculously worded question from Jill Douglas to a guy whose just won a Gold medal.>
Agree, absolutely shocking.
In reply to fxceltic:
+1
> (In reply to CarbonCopy) Coverage was utterly appalling today, no times, total nonsense talked, unable to correctly identify any riders or even correct nationalities etc etc
>
> further, the "failure" of gb to catch the break was exclusively down to the Germans saving themselves for a sprint that never happened, precisely because they didn't contribute.
>
> further, the "failure" of gb to catch the break was exclusively down to the Germans saving themselves for a sprint that never happened, precisely because they didn't contribute.
+1
In reply to DaveHK:
I take it back, blame appears to lie with the OBS rather than the BBC...
Though they can't be blamed for the commentator!!
I take it back, blame appears to lie with the OBS rather than the BBC...
Though they can't be blamed for the commentator!!
In reply to Paul035:
I agree. Very strange for an event on which nine billion's been spent, and for which the planning's been going on for six years.
I'm not interested in hearing excuses from the commentators about why 'it's outside their control': there's no mystery about arranging TV coverage for a cycle race - just do it.
Oh - 'and another thing': lots of empty seats tonight at the gymnastics (another sport I take an interest in). Why? I thought it was all sold out? Are these the famous 'corporate hospitality' seats I keep hearing about?
> The biggest disappointment to me was the BBC coverage. No timings
totally kills it, I know they said it was outwith their control - WHY?? I agree. Very strange for an event on which nine billion's been spent, and for which the planning's been going on for six years.
I'm not interested in hearing excuses from the commentators about why 'it's outside their control': there's no mystery about arranging TV coverage for a cycle race - just do it.
Oh - 'and another thing': lots of empty seats tonight at the gymnastics (another sport I take an interest in). Why? I thought it was all sold out? Are these the famous 'corporate hospitality' seats I keep hearing about?
In reply to abcdefg:
I take it you didn't read the Telegraph piece above?
I think the BBC can be excused to a degree but still no excuse for Hugh Porters idiocy and Jill Douglas' stupid comments to Vino.
> (In reply to Paul035)
>
> [...]
> totally kills it, I know they said it was outwith their control - WHY??
>
>
>
> [...]
> totally kills it, I know they said it was outwith their control - WHY??
>
>
I take it you didn't read the Telegraph piece above?
I think the BBC can be excused to a degree but still no excuse for Hugh Porters idiocy and Jill Douglas' stupid comments to Vino.
In reply to DaveHK:
I've read it now but I don't buy the excuse: the BBC are in this with *24* channels, have had six years to plan, and have one chance to get it right on the day. You might have thought they'd have talked about it in advance with the 'OBS' - whatever that actually is. I'm not interested in hearing excuses after the event - it's too late now.
I can put up with Hugh Porter but I agree that 'interview' with Vinokourov was a disgrace, and an embarrassment.
> I take it you didn't read the Telegraph piece above?
I've read it now but I don't buy the excuse: the BBC are in this with *24* channels, have had six years to plan, and have one chance to get it right on the day. You might have thought they'd have talked about it in advance with the 'OBS' - whatever that actually is. I'm not interested in hearing excuses after the event - it's too late now.
> I think the BBC can be excused to a degree but still no excuse for Hugh Porters idiocy and Jill Douglas' stupid comments to Vino.
I can put up with Hugh Porter but I agree that 'interview' with Vinokourov was a disgrace, and an embarrassment.
In reply to abcdefg:
and on top of all that - David Bond's report on 10 o'clock news and his blog after Cavendish rightly snapped at him (which fortunately is getting a decent amount of slagging in the comments section)... and then I've just seen a short section of the beeb's highlights prog with a tennis player, two track and field athletes and a football presenter discussing the tactical errors made by team GB. oh dear...
and on top of all that - David Bond's report on 10 o'clock news and his blog after Cavendish rightly snapped at him (which fortunately is getting a decent amount of slagging in the comments section)... and then I've just seen a short section of the beeb's highlights prog with a tennis player, two track and field athletes and a football presenter discussing the tactical errors made by team GB. oh dear...
In reply to sg:
Agreed - embarrassing.
> (In reply to abcdefg)
>
> .... and then I've just seen a short section of the beeb's highlights prog with a tennis player, two track and field athletes and a football presenter discussing the tactical errors made by team GB. oh dear...
>
> .... and then I've just seen a short section of the beeb's highlights prog with a tennis player, two track and field athletes and a football presenter discussing the tactical errors made by team GB. oh dear...
Agreed - embarrassing.
In reply to DaveHK:
I did. I think you've mistakenly attributed that comment to me the second time. I made it originally then after reading the Telegraph piece I wrote I take it back (meaning about the bbc).
Someone else subsequently re-posted that comment that I made earlier.
> (In reply to abcdefg)
> [...]
>
> I take it you didn't read the Telegraph piece above?
>
> [...]
>
> I take it you didn't read the Telegraph piece above?
>
I did. I think you've mistakenly attributed that comment to me the second time. I made it originally then after reading the Telegraph piece I wrote I take it back (meaning about the bbc).
Someone else subsequently re-posted that comment that I made earlier.
In reply to Paul035:
>
We had Phill Ligget and Paul Sherwan on FTA here in Oz......so no complaints :p
>
>
> And as for Hugh Porter..!! Mixing up Griepel racing for 4th when 30 riders had come in beforehand. I don't dislike Porter but he is hopeless. The number of times in a 2 man race in the velodrome and he shouts out the wrong one in the lead or that has just won. Surely its a fairly important part of his job!! And what a ridiculously worded question from Jill Douglas to a guy whose just won a Gold medal.
>
> And as for Hugh Porter..!! Mixing up Griepel racing for 4th when 30 riders had come in beforehand. I don't dislike Porter but he is hopeless. The number of times in a 2 man race in the velodrome and he shouts out the wrong one in the lead or that has just won. Surely its a fairly important part of his job!! And what a ridiculously worded question from Jill Douglas to a guy whose just won a Gold medal.
>
We had Phill Ligget and Paul Sherwan on FTA here in Oz......so no complaints :p
In reply to CarbonCopy:so the dream team failed. Were the best fit riders picked to ride just one week after the tour finished the dream team were riding again trying to win gold nr cavendish blamed the aussies that's just. Sad. Why should another country help britain win gold.
In reply to neil0968:
The Aussies and the Germans chance of a medal was to follow the same tactics as the Brits and launch Goss / Griepel from a bunch sprint. Cavendish would still be favourite, but they would have a chance. Not helping Team GB destroyed their own chances as much as it did ours.
> (In reply to CarbonCopy)so the dream team failed. Were the best fit riders picked to ride just one week after the tour finished the dream team were riding again trying to win gold nr cavendish blamed the aussies that's just. Sad. Why should another country help britain win gold.
The Aussies and the Germans chance of a medal was to follow the same tactics as the Brits and launch Goss / Griepel from a bunch sprint. Cavendish would still be favourite, but they would have a chance. Not helping Team GB destroyed their own chances as much as it did ours.
In reply to neil0968: Did you follow the tactics of the racing? GB weren't the only team with a strong sprinter in who could have taken the victory if it had come to a mass dash. Cav may have been the strongest, but Greipel and Goss are sufficiently close in performance that it was far from certain Cav would have won if it all came together.
So it wouldn't have been beyond reason to expect the teams of these two riders ( Germany and Australia, though the latter negated slightly by having a man in the break) to help bring it all back together. It seemed instead they tried to get a free ride to the mall in the hope of further tipping the odds, but instead tipped it against themselves.
For the most part I don't think GB did much tactically wrong given the cards they had, but there weren't the depth in numbers to be able to bring it all back together alone. The tactics of those without sprinters were not unsurprising, but GB played as best as they could.
I think all the GB riders put in epic performances, and although the result didn't go their way, they far from shamed themselves.
So it wouldn't have been beyond reason to expect the teams of these two riders ( Germany and Australia, though the latter negated slightly by having a man in the break) to help bring it all back together. It seemed instead they tried to get a free ride to the mall in the hope of further tipping the odds, but instead tipped it against themselves.
For the most part I don't think GB did much tactically wrong given the cards they had, but there weren't the depth in numbers to be able to bring it all back together alone. The tactics of those without sprinters were not unsurprising, but GB played as best as they could.
I think all the GB riders put in epic performances, and although the result didn't go their way, they far from shamed themselves.
In reply to Liam M:
Exactly - we can be proud of the GB performance - unlike some of the other teams.
E
>
>
> I think all the GB riders put in epic performances, and although the result didn't go their way, they far from shamed themselves.
>
> I think all the GB riders put in epic performances, and although the result didn't go their way, they far from shamed themselves.
Exactly - we can be proud of the GB performance - unlike some of the other teams.
E
In reply to neil0968:
You work together for the outside chance of a medal or do f*ck all for no chance of a medal.
E
> Why should another country help britain win gold.
You work together for the outside chance of a medal or do f*ck all for no chance of a medal.
E
In reply to Enty:yes good effort the drem team GB. But well done the top three medal winners who rode a very good race
rdIn reply to Liam M:epic performance yes it was a good effort by the dream team GB but the top three MEDAL winners there's was a epic performace.
In reply to CarbonCopy: Did I pick up right that Froome and Wiggo both dropped out? Even though they didn't get what they wanted, surely to finish the race is the best team spirit?, or were they just completely knackered?
In reply to Winterbotty:
They both sat up near the end and finished in a later group. If you've done your job finishing the race for honour or team spirit doesn't really come into the equasion especially if you have the TT in a few days.
> (In reply to CarbonCopy) Did I pick up right that Froome and Wiggo both dropped out? Even though they didn't get what they wanted, surely to finish the race is the best team spirit?, or were they just completely knackered?
They both sat up near the end and finished in a later group. If you've done your job finishing the race for honour or team spirit doesn't really come into the equasion especially if you have the TT in a few days.
In reply to Winterbotty:
They'd done about 150 miles on the front at 30mph for Mark Cavendish, that's good enough team spirit for me.
They'd done about 150 miles on the front at 30mph for Mark Cavendish, that's good enough team spirit for me.
In reply to Winterbotty: Did you get that from the 10 o'clock news coverage? That report was absolutely shocking, it showed froome dropping back after giving his all but also Wiggo at the back of the peloton. Wiggo went back for a rest and then went back to pull at the front, it was an amazing effort by four riders to pull the peloton for such a long distance, very few others could have done that. That bBC report is a total shocker, basically making Wiggo look like he couldn't take pace, when he'd been setting it with Stannard all day. And talking about there being hard questions to answer as they didnt get gold. Zero knowledge of road racing and an extremely negative piece, with Cav, understandably, snapping at the reporter has portrayed our cyclists as petulant failures unable to compete. What an utter joke of a report.
the sports editor is rightly getting a slating in his blog. Check out the ten o'clock news report on iplayer, it's at the beginning, if you haven't seen it to see what I mean.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2012/07/cavendish_and_co_disappoint_in...
the sports editor is rightly getting a slating in his blog. Check out the ten o'clock news report on iplayer, it's at the beginning, if you haven't seen it to see what I mean.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2012/07/cavendish_and_co_disappoint_in...
In reply to DaveHK:
Ta for that, teach me to read only snippets....
> (In reply to Winterbotty)
> [...]
>
> They both sat up near the end and finished in a later group. If you've done your job finishing the race for honour or team spirit doesn't really come into the equasion especially if you have the TT in a few days.
> [...]
>
> They both sat up near the end and finished in a later group. If you've done your job finishing the race for honour or team spirit doesn't really come into the equasion especially if you have the TT in a few days.
Ta for that, teach me to read only snippets....
In reply to Escher:
I just watched that. Shocking reporting. Wiggins and Froome couldn't handle the pace? They set the pace for 150 miles!
Whilst Cav was right enough to question his knowledge to the layman it makes him look like a petulant child.
I think we'll need to accept that it might take a few years for the quality of cycling coverage to catch up with the increased volume of coverage.
> (In reply to Winterbotty) > the sports editor is rightly getting a slating in his blog. Check out the ten o'clock news report on iplayer, it's at the beginning, if you haven't seen it to see what I mean.
I just watched that. Shocking reporting. Wiggins and Froome couldn't handle the pace? They set the pace for 150 miles!
Whilst Cav was right enough to question his knowledge to the layman it makes him look like a petulant child.
I think we'll need to accept that it might take a few years for the quality of cycling coverage to catch up with the increased volume of coverage.
In reply to DaveHK:
Interview with Miller and Froome on here, too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19032756
It really looked liked one of the best supported bike races I've seen, nice to see Miller acknowledge it.
Interview with Miller and Froome on here, too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19032756
It really looked liked one of the best supported bike races I've seen, nice to see Miller acknowledge it.
In reply to CarbonCopy: I thought the BBC newscaster describing the road race as being won by convicted drugs cheat, Vinokourov as being in exceedingly bad taste. They obviously didn't read Millars CV then? Not that they care
In reply to CarbonCopy:
So it's raining again and I've got nothing better to do...
I made a complaint about Jill Douglas' post race interview and David Bond's inaccurate reporting on the Weekend News here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/
So it's raining again and I've got nothing better to do...
I made a complaint about Jill Douglas' post race interview and David Bond's inaccurate reporting on the Weekend News here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/
In reply to Escher:
I've complainewd to the BBC about that. David Bond is a smarmy, ignorant tw*t. I didn't put it as well as you have though!
> (In reply to Winterbotty) Did you get that from the 10 o'clock news coverage? That report was absolutely shocking, it showed froome dropping back after giving his all but also Wiggo at the back of the peloton. Wiggo went back for a rest and then went back to pull at the front, it was an amazing effort by four riders to pull the peloton for such a long distance, very few others could have done that. That bBC report is a total shocker, basically making Wiggo look like he couldn't take pace, when he'd been setting it with Stannard all day. And talking about there being hard questions to answer as they didnt get gold. Zero knowledge of road racing and an extremely negative piece, with Cav, understandably, snapping at the reporter has portrayed our cyclists as petulant failures unable to compete. What an utter joke of a report.
>
> the sports editor is rightly getting a slating in his blog. Check out the ten o'clock news report on iplayer, it's at the beginning, if you haven't seen it to see what I mean.
>
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2012/07/cavendish_and_co_disappoint_in...
>
> the sports editor is rightly getting a slating in his blog. Check out the ten o'clock news report on iplayer, it's at the beginning, if you haven't seen it to see what I mean.
>
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2012/07/cavendish_and_co_disappoint_in...
I've complainewd to the BBC about that. David Bond is a smarmy, ignorant tw*t. I didn't put it as well as you have though!
In reply to Submit to Gravity: Wiki says DB started as a Millwall supporting footy reporter...
In reply to woolsack:
I know Floyd Landis is an unstable pariah but I enjoyed his comment..
"If Vino says 'it's a victory for clean cycling" he'd be my hero. Alternatively if he said 'f*** every single mother******* one of you,' that would work too."
I know Floyd Landis is an unstable pariah but I enjoyed his comment..
"If Vino says 'it's a victory for clean cycling" he'd be my hero. Alternatively if he said 'f*** every single mother******* one of you,' that would work too."
In reply to Submit to Gravity:I thought the report was spot on the dream team did not win well done the three medal winners
In reply to neil0968:
Well it would appear your understanding of road racing is at a similar level to the BBC's sports editor.
Mind you, i guess you don't get a lot of cycling to watch under that bridge.
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity)I thought the report was spot on the dream team did not win well done the three medal winners
Well it would appear your understanding of road racing is at a similar level to the BBC's sports editor.
Mind you, i guess you don't get a lot of cycling to watch under that bridge.
In reply to neil0968:
>"I thought the report was spot on the dream team did not win"
The GB team was full of great riders but not the sort of riders that are likely to win a one day race from a plane crash sh!t fight. They had a good hand and gambled on the Germans being as committed as themselves in riding for a sprint. They played that hand but unfortunately the Germans gambled that GB were so strong they could do it alone. Yes, GB lost to some good riders who rode their race well but to say GB executed a sh!t race plan badly is pretty far off the mark. If the Germans had offered more as logic would suggest they would have then it would likely have been tea and more medals at the palace...
>"I thought the report was spot on the dream team did not win"
The GB team was full of great riders but not the sort of riders that are likely to win a one day race from a plane crash sh!t fight. They had a good hand and gambled on the Germans being as committed as themselves in riding for a sprint. They played that hand but unfortunately the Germans gambled that GB were so strong they could do it alone. Yes, GB lost to some good riders who rode their race well but to say GB executed a sh!t race plan badly is pretty far off the mark. If the Germans had offered more as logic would suggest they would have then it would likely have been tea and more medals at the palace...
In reply to CarbonCopy:that was a truely epic yes epic performance by Lizzie in the women's road race well done first medal for team GB.she road the the perfect race
In reply to andy:do nt understand your last statement about under the bridge. Ha ho
In reply to woolsack:
If you don't get the difference between Millar and Vino then you really don't understand the issue. Millar not only acknowledged his crime, he has been very vocal on the issue ever since, breaking the unwritten rule of the peloton and suffering professionally as a result. Vino, on the other hand, has kept his silence and took his punishment as no more than an occupational risk
> (In reply to CarbonCopy) I thought the BBC newscaster describing the road race as being won by convicted drugs cheat, Vinokourov as being in exceedingly bad taste. They obviously didn't read Millars CV then? Not that they care
If you don't get the difference between Millar and Vino then you really don't understand the issue. Millar not only acknowledged his crime, he has been very vocal on the issue ever since, breaking the unwritten rule of the peloton and suffering professionally as a result. Vino, on the other hand, has kept his silence and took his punishment as no more than an occupational risk
In reply to neil0968:
I was assuming you were trolling. Perhaps you genuinely don't understand anything about bike racing - in which case maybe a dignified silence would be better - you might learn something.
> (In reply to andy)do nt understand your last statement about under the bridge. Ha ho
I was assuming you were trolling. Perhaps you genuinely don't understand anything about bike racing - in which case maybe a dignified silence would be better - you might learn something.
In reply to andy:trolling what's that you keep speaking in riddles any way back to the subject and well done womens uroad race team who were bang on the tactics today as they had more than one plan.
In reply to niallk:
She started her interview by saying 'Not the result we were looking for but...'
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
>
> What did Jill Douglas ask Vino? I turned off before it got to her interview.
>
> What did Jill Douglas ask Vino? I turned off before it got to her interview.
She started her interview by saying 'Not the result we were looking for but...'
In reply to DaveHK:
Completely disrespectful, but the brazen display of partisanship is quite funny (though not for Vino). I imagine the UCI would agree with her sentiments...
> (In reply to niallk)
> [...]
>
> She started her interview by saying 'Not the result we were looking for but...'
> [...]
>
> She started her interview by saying 'Not the result we were looking for but...'
Completely disrespectful, but the brazen display of partisanship is quite funny (though not for Vino). I imagine the UCI would agree with her sentiments...
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Don't blame Vino blame the rule makers.
He was permitted to return to racing - did so and won. There was a huge amount of sour grapes online because Cav didn't win - largely due to GB's tactics of attempting to control a 250 km race. It would probably have made more sense to cover moves and let Cav look after himself if it came to a gallop. Swifty would have have been a better bet than Stanard in that respect sprinting from a small group.
Doping is wrong - but the thing with Pro bike racing is the Pro in the sentence. I like Vino's get stuck in approach when it comes to racing.
Good blog post here - http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2012/07/29/rorschach-test/
Don't blame Vino blame the rule makers.
He was permitted to return to racing - did so and won. There was a huge amount of sour grapes online because Cav didn't win - largely due to GB's tactics of attempting to control a 250 km race. It would probably have made more sense to cover moves and let Cav look after himself if it came to a gallop. Swifty would have have been a better bet than Stanard in that respect sprinting from a small group.
Doping is wrong - but the thing with Pro bike racing is the Pro in the sentence. I like Vino's get stuck in approach when it comes to racing.
Good blog post here - http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2012/07/29/rorschach-test/
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Here's a question for you all
Would the race be better if each country was only allowed one entrant ?
I think it might be a purer test of who's best if the team tactics were eliminated. As much as I wanted Cav to win, and hated seeing Vino win, GBs tactics were themselves a bit negative - try to keep the race boring until a final sprint. Cav may be the worlds best sprinter, but he isn't the worlds best rider.
P.S Apparently he finished the race with a flat - even if the tactics had worked he would probably have still missed out on a a medal
Here's a question for you all
Would the race be better if each country was only allowed one entrant ?
I think it might be a purer test of who's best if the team tactics were eliminated. As much as I wanted Cav to win, and hated seeing Vino win, GBs tactics were themselves a bit negative - try to keep the race boring until a final sprint. Cav may be the worlds best sprinter, but he isn't the worlds best rider.
P.S Apparently he finished the race with a flat - even if the tactics had worked he would probably have still missed out on a a medal
In reply to Henry Iddon:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> Don't blame Vino blame the rule makers.
>
Not saying he shouldn't be allowed to race - he's only been caught once. But I was simply making the same point that that article you linked made - there is a huge difference between him and Milar and it isn't hypocritical to cheer for one and not the other >
> Don't blame Vino blame the rule makers.
>
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Would agree with previous comments re BBC coverage. Interview's and analysis were poor. Gary Lineker should stick to interviewing footballers. John McEnroe should stick to talking about Andy Murray. Kelly Holmes at least admitted she wasn't knowledgable enough to answer a question posed at her on the highlights show re the mens event. In hindsight, had the BBC known how poor the outside broadcast feed/info was going to be, they should probably have tried to hire Phil Liggett as a one-off. I think he would have identied the faces in the breakaways a bit quicker.
Would agree with previous comments re BBC coverage. Interview's and analysis were poor. Gary Lineker should stick to interviewing footballers. John McEnroe should stick to talking about Andy Murray. Kelly Holmes at least admitted she wasn't knowledgable enough to answer a question posed at her on the highlights show re the mens event. In hindsight, had the BBC known how poor the outside broadcast feed/info was going to be, they should probably have tried to hire Phil Liggett as a one-off. I think he would have identied the faces in the breakaways a bit quicker.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to CarbonCopy)
> Here's a question for you all
>
> Would the race be better if each country was only allowed one entrant ?
>
Not for me I don't think. The tactics is one of the reasons I like the road race. > Here's a question for you all
>
> Would the race be better if each country was only allowed one entrant ?
>
I have to say I didn't watch the mens road race partly due to moving house and partly becuase this is the result I was predicting and I couldn't bare to watch it happen after they've done so much in the last few years.
I did watch the womens because they are also truly fantastic and have also been incredible the last few years but had a bredth of talent that gave them all a chance without the same handicap as the mens.
A great result and while I wish we'd got the gold I'm pleased for Vos and a well deserved win.
Cheers
Toby
I did watch the womens because they are also truly fantastic and have also been incredible the last few years but had a bredth of talent that gave them all a chance without the same handicap as the mens.
A great result and while I wish we'd got the gold I'm pleased for Vos and a well deserved win.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Me too. What a tool!
> (In reply to Escher)
> [...]
>
> I've complainewd to the BBC about that. David Bond is a smarmy, ignorant tw*t. I didn't put it as well as you have though!
> [...]
>
> I've complainewd to the BBC about that. David Bond is a smarmy, ignorant tw*t. I didn't put it as well as you have though!
Me too. What a tool!
In reply to JLS:
In terms of tactics, I'm sure people predicted this for the men. I'm probably being totally naive here but why didn't anyone from team GB go with the break or was it Cav or no one ?
In terms of tactics, I'm sure people predicted this for the men. I'm probably being totally naive here but why didn't anyone from team GB go with the break or was it Cav or no one ?
In reply to Henry Iddon:
Completely agree
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> Don't blame Vino blame the rule makers.
>
>
> Don't blame Vino blame the rule makers.
>
Completely agree
In reply to GrahamD:
Cav represented our best plan, but for that to work it had to be all in on that plan and hope the Germans and Aussies do at least a bit of work to help ensure a bunch sprint - as that also represented their best chance.
This is essentially what happened at the Worlds where Cav won. But unfortunately Germany and Australia put a bit too much faith in the Britons this time, considering the quality of the breakaway group. Either that or they decided they couldn't be arsed.
You win some, you lose some. That's sport, innit.
> (In reply to JLS)
>
> In terms of tactics, I'm sure people predicted this for the men. I'm probably being totally naive here but why didn't anyone from team GB go with the break or was it Cav or no one ?
>
> In terms of tactics, I'm sure people predicted this for the men. I'm probably being totally naive here but why didn't anyone from team GB go with the break or was it Cav or no one ?
Cav represented our best plan, but for that to work it had to be all in on that plan and hope the Germans and Aussies do at least a bit of work to help ensure a bunch sprint - as that also represented their best chance.
This is essentially what happened at the Worlds where Cav won. But unfortunately Germany and Australia put a bit too much faith in the Britons this time, considering the quality of the breakaway group. Either that or they decided they couldn't be arsed.
You win some, you lose some. That's sport, innit.
In reply to Calder:
Additional, don't forget they pulled the break back from 6 mins to less than 1 - that's not too shabby for just four guys vs 30+. If the Germans had chipped in even just a little I think we'd have had the result we wanted.
Additional, don't forget they pulled the break back from 6 mins to less than 1 - that's not too shabby for just four guys vs 30+. If the Germans had chipped in even just a little I think we'd have had the result we wanted.
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Just watched the Saturday BBC 10 o'clock news footage for the first time via Youtube. BBC have a complaint from me as well. Worst piece of sports reporting I have ever seen. Seriously.
Just watched the Saturday BBC 10 o'clock news footage for the first time via Youtube. BBC have a complaint from me as well. Worst piece of sports reporting I have ever seen. Seriously.
In reply to Calder:
When was the break at ever more than a minute or so?
> (In reply to Calder)
>
> Additional, don't forget they pulled the break back from 6 mins to less than 1 - that's not too shabby for just four guys vs 30+. If the Germans had chipped in even just a little I think we'd have had the result we wanted.
>
> Additional, don't forget they pulled the break back from 6 mins to less than 1 - that's not too shabby for just four guys vs 30+. If the Germans had chipped in even just a little I think we'd have had the result we wanted.
When was the break at ever more than a minute or so?
In reply to Mike Highbury: The initial break of 11 or so went out to about 6 mins by the first approach to Box Hill. It was brought back to 1min by the last couple of times up, and frankly looked broken at that point.
On the last ascent of Box Hill another bunch mainly focussed around Nibali and Gilbert (and including the eventual first two I believe) jumped, managed to bridge though not particularly quickly and looked pegged at about 30s for a while. It was this refreshing of the break away group that ultimately proved decisive, especially as the likes of Cancellara had been quiet before hand.
On the last ascent of Box Hill another bunch mainly focussed around Nibali and Gilbert (and including the eventual first two I believe) jumped, managed to bridge though not particularly quickly and looked pegged at about 30s for a while. It was this refreshing of the break away group that ultimately proved decisive, especially as the likes of Cancellara had been quiet before hand.
In reply to Submit to Gravity: Seems David Bond has edited his blog post to be less negative and to bring in some mention of the lottery aspect of one day races. However he hasn't acknowledged he has done this, the date of his blog is the same and he does not mention the criticisms in the comments section. Also seems the BBC are deleting reasonable comments according to some posts on the last page. David Bond seems to be seriously lacking in integrity.
See page 4 on here http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2012/07/cavendish_and_co_disappoint_in...
See page 4 on here http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2012/07/cavendish_and_co_disappoint_in...
vimeo.com/46610821 This was in Richmond Park, I think it gives you an idea of the atmosphere. It was great to cheer on the boys and you can see how strung out they look on the return leg. If I was Greipl I would be pretty disappointed with my team not to have had faith in my sprinting ability especially after 3 tour stage victories.
In reply to Escher:
At least he's realised the error of his ways. Let's hope he's actually learnt a lesson here, rather than just being concerned about his reputation.
At least he's realised the error of his ways. Let's hope he's actually learnt a lesson here, rather than just being concerned about his reputation.
In reply to Calder: That's charitable and you may be right, but he also might be desperately trying to cover his a****
In reply to Escher:
In truth I suspect the latter. We'll possibly find out if GB doesn't win enough medals in this Olympics to meet his expectations........
In truth I suspect the latter. We'll possibly find out if GB doesn't win enough medals in this Olympics to meet his expectations........
In reply to CarbonCopy: further to all the BS about twitter causing the timing issues in the road races, does anyone know if this has categorically been sorted ahead of the TT s tomorrow? Without the timings they literally may as well not bother with the event as a spectacle.
In reply to fxceltic:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/30/o2_network_olympic_outage/
The road race had a lot of spectators in an area which (as I understand it) doesn't have the best mobile infrastructure, whether the same will be true for the TT I don't know.
Surely O2 have the capability/lack of ethics to do a bit of traffic shaping to block twitter traffic? Or could they role in some temporary base stations?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/30/o2_network_olympic_outage/
The road race had a lot of spectators in an area which (as I understand it) doesn't have the best mobile infrastructure, whether the same will be true for the TT I don't know.
Surely O2 have the capability/lack of ethics to do a bit of traffic shaping to block twitter traffic? Or could they role in some temporary base stations?
In reply to fxceltic:
er.... is this true? in a time trial all you need is a notepad and a stopwatch.
er.... is this true? in a time trial all you need is a notepad and a stopwatch.
In reply to Reach>Talent: the tour de France goes through areas with poor mobile coverage & attracts large crowds, doesn't stop them giving regularly updated timings. A while since I've watched the UK coverage but here in France there's usually a graphic at the bottom of the screen showing how the cyclists are spread out with time intervals between each group. I would have expected that for the Olympics but we didn't get it - either here in France or, by the comments I've read, in the UK. Why not ?
In reply to parkovski: if Im watching on telly then I need to be given regular timechecks in order to be able to know how riders are doing relative to the competition.
thats a given for televising any event such as this, yet was beyond the host broadcaster in the RR.
thats a given for televising any event such as this, yet was beyond the host broadcaster in the RR.
In reply to fxceltic:
Yes. I understand this. The purpose of my reply was to prompt you to stop and think, hence the question mark. Since you've failed to do this, I shall attempt to explain.
In the time trial, unlike the road race, the timings you seek are split times of each rider passing a static point on the course. It's not as if a bridge over the Thames needs a transponder to keep track of it relative to the cyclist. As long as the BBC can manage to display the running time of each competitor in the relevant shot, and choose some landmarks for split times, then you'll be quite as well informed as you could hope. In fact I bet they won't even need to do even this, as it's quite normal to have official time checks on the route surely?
Yes. I understand this. The purpose of my reply was to prompt you to stop and think, hence the question mark. Since you've failed to do this, I shall attempt to explain.
In the time trial, unlike the road race, the timings you seek are split times of each rider passing a static point on the course. It's not as if a bridge over the Thames needs a transponder to keep track of it relative to the cyclist. As long as the BBC can manage to display the running time of each competitor in the relevant shot, and choose some landmarks for split times, then you'll be quite as well informed as you could hope. In fact I bet they won't even need to do even this, as it's quite normal to have official time checks on the route surely?
In reply to parkovski:
Would you reply to someone like that who you had just met in a pub and you were talking face to face?
E
> (In reply to fxceltic)
>
> Yes. I understand this. The purpose of my reply was to prompt you to stop and think, hence the question mark. Since you've failed to do this, I shall attempt to explain.
>
>
> Yes. I understand this. The purpose of my reply was to prompt you to stop and think, hence the question mark. Since you've failed to do this, I shall attempt to explain.
>
Would you reply to someone like that who you had just met in a pub and you were talking face to face?
E
In reply to parkovski:
Wasn't that the whole problem in the road race though? (That the BBC had no control over what was shown during the road race coverage).
> (In reply to fxceltic)
>
> As long as the BBC can manage to display the running time of each competitor in the relevant shot,
>
> As long as the BBC can manage to display the running time of each competitor in the relevant shot,
Wasn't that the whole problem in the road race though? (That the BBC had no control over what was shown during the road race coverage).
In reply to Enty:
Yes. I'm an a*sehole in real life too. I don't mean to be glib or clever in saying that, it's one of my genuine character flaws. Despite meaning no ill in taking such tones I have offended people often in the past, and the regret is etched across my soul.
I guess it did sound a little harsh on re-reading it, so I shall apologise for any offence. Sorry Fxceltic. My points could have been made without sarcasm, or the tone of patronising haughtiness with which I started. I could indeed have simply stated those points in my original reply rather than trying to induce their independent genesis in your brain.
One wonders if the gps transponders are the responsibility of the BBC or of the organisers - the commentators certainly seemed as exasperated as we all did by the lack of reliable information.
PS - If you overheard this in your hypothetical pub, would you audit the bad manners of a complete stranger?
> (In reply to parkovski)
> [...]
>
> Would you reply to someone like that who you had just met in a pub and you were talking face to face?
>
> E
> [...]
>
> Would you reply to someone like that who you had just met in a pub and you were talking face to face?
>
> E
Yes. I'm an a*sehole in real life too. I don't mean to be glib or clever in saying that, it's one of my genuine character flaws. Despite meaning no ill in taking such tones I have offended people often in the past, and the regret is etched across my soul.
I guess it did sound a little harsh on re-reading it, so I shall apologise for any offence. Sorry Fxceltic. My points could have been made without sarcasm, or the tone of patronising haughtiness with which I started. I could indeed have simply stated those points in my original reply rather than trying to induce their independent genesis in your brain.
One wonders if the gps transponders are the responsibility of the BBC or of the organisers - the commentators certainly seemed as exasperated as we all did by the lack of reliable information.
PS - If you overheard this in your hypothetical pub, would you audit the bad manners of a complete stranger?
In reply to parkovski:
I understood your first post perfectly well, but it seems you dont understand the purpose of what the BBC are supposed to do when providing coverage.
It shouldnt be necessary for me to sit there with a bloody stopwatch and notepad, and in any event I dont believe they will show every competitor coming through each check point given the appallingly bad coverage of the RR.
Yes Im sure that there will be official time checks, but I wouldnt be certain that that info will be passed on effectively to the broadcasters given what happened at the weekend.
> (In reply to fxceltic)
>
> Yes. I understand this. The purpose of my reply was to prompt you to stop and think, hence the question mark. Since you've failed to do this, I shall attempt to explain.
>
> In the time trial, unlike the road race, the timings you seek are split times of each rider passing a static point on the course. It's not as if a bridge over the Thames needs a transponder to keep track of it relative to the cyclist. As long as the BBC can manage to display the running time of each competitor in the relevant shot, and choose some landmarks for split times, then you'll be quite as well informed as you could hope. In fact I bet they won't even need to do even this, as it's quite normal to have official time checks on the route surely?
>
> Yes. I understand this. The purpose of my reply was to prompt you to stop and think, hence the question mark. Since you've failed to do this, I shall attempt to explain.
>
> In the time trial, unlike the road race, the timings you seek are split times of each rider passing a static point on the course. It's not as if a bridge over the Thames needs a transponder to keep track of it relative to the cyclist. As long as the BBC can manage to display the running time of each competitor in the relevant shot, and choose some landmarks for split times, then you'll be quite as well informed as you could hope. In fact I bet they won't even need to do even this, as it's quite normal to have official time checks on the route surely?
I understood your first post perfectly well, but it seems you dont understand the purpose of what the BBC are supposed to do when providing coverage.
It shouldnt be necessary for me to sit there with a bloody stopwatch and notepad, and in any event I dont believe they will show every competitor coming through each check point given the appallingly bad coverage of the RR.
Yes Im sure that there will be official time checks, but I wouldnt be certain that that info will be passed on effectively to the broadcasters given what happened at the weekend.
In reply to parkovski:
apology accepted, I had already posted my reply to you before seeing this.
> (In reply to Enty)
> [...]
>
> Sorry Fxceltic.
> [...]
>
> Sorry Fxceltic.
apology accepted, I had already posted my reply to you before seeing this.
In reply to Byronius Maximus:
I don't think it was quite that - I think the BBC has complete control over everything that's shown on screen. The problem with the road race is that (through either their fault or the organisers) they didn't have any useful information to display. It would have been nice to see them think on their feet and have manual timings when the technology failed though.
I don't think it was quite that - I think the BBC has complete control over everything that's shown on screen. The problem with the road race is that (through either their fault or the organisers) they didn't have any useful information to display. It would have been nice to see them think on their feet and have manual timings when the technology failed though.
In reply to parkovski:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/30/o2_network_olympic_outage/
The GPS tags on the riders use the O2 network to communicate with LOCOGs systems (possibly via Omega who I think are responsible for timing). This goes to the Olympic Broadcasting Service (Presumably BBC employees). The OBS say they weren't getting the data and O2 say they had problems "There was a capacity issue with Box Hill at the weekend," an O2 spokesperson told The Register. "You can imagine that all of the people around that area were frantically using their phones so that was the reason for the oversubscription." interestingly it seems there was issues at the test event before hand... The OBS spokesperson said that in its pre-Olympics testing, it had also experienced interference on Box Hill, despite promises from Ofcom that the frequencies it needed would be cleared.
Does seem a bit of a shambles!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/30/o2_network_olympic_outage/
The GPS tags on the riders use the O2 network to communicate with LOCOGs systems (possibly via Omega who I think are responsible for timing). This goes to the Olympic Broadcasting Service (Presumably BBC employees). The OBS say they weren't getting the data and O2 say they had problems "There was a capacity issue with Box Hill at the weekend," an O2 spokesperson told The Register. "You can imagine that all of the people around that area were frantically using their phones so that was the reason for the oversubscription." interestingly it seems there was issues at the test event before hand... The OBS spokesperson said that in its pre-Olympics testing, it had also experienced interference on Box Hill, despite promises from Ofcom that the frequencies it needed would be cleared.
Does seem a bit of a shambles!
In reply to parkovski:
most of the coverage was provided by mobile camera units on bikes that were not necessarily filming at the same points so manual timechecks will have been difficult.
it has underlined the usefulness of experienced broadcasters in cycling, such as eurosport, or the national broadcasters in big cycling nations, really the beeb/ locog should have put a call into them beforehand.
> (In reply to Byronius Maximus)
>
> I don't think it was quite that - I think the BBC has complete control over everything that's shown on screen. The problem with the road race is that (through either their fault or the organisers) they didn't have any useful information to display. It would have been nice to see them think on their feet and have manual timings when the technology failed though.
>
> I don't think it was quite that - I think the BBC has complete control over everything that's shown on screen. The problem with the road race is that (through either their fault or the organisers) they didn't have any useful information to display. It would have been nice to see them think on their feet and have manual timings when the technology failed though.
most of the coverage was provided by mobile camera units on bikes that were not necessarily filming at the same points so manual timechecks will have been difficult.
it has underlined the usefulness of experienced broadcasters in cycling, such as eurosport, or the national broadcasters in big cycling nations, really the beeb/ locog should have put a call into them beforehand.
In reply to fxceltic:
No need to apologise - you shouldn't be denied the chance to vent your response by a mere grovelly retraction.
Sorry I lacked clarity before. I meant that all THEY had to do was find a stop watch and a notepad if the fancy automated systems failed. I wasn't denying the level to which they failed to cover the RR - but wanted to posit that cocking up the TT would involve incompetence an order of magnitude greater.
> (In reply to parkovski)
No need to apologise - you shouldn't be denied the chance to vent your response by a mere grovelly retraction.
> "It shouldnt be necessary for me to sit there with a bloody stopwatch and notepad.. I wouldnt be certain that that info will be passed on effectively to the broadcasters given what happened at the weekend"
Sorry I lacked clarity before. I meant that all THEY had to do was find a stop watch and a notepad if the fancy automated systems failed. I wasn't denying the level to which they failed to cover the RR - but wanted to posit that cocking up the TT would involve incompetence an order of magnitude greater.
In reply to parkovski:
thats true, assuming pictures are consistent.
> (In reply to fxceltic)
> [...]
>
> No need to apologise - you shouldn't be denied the chance to vent your response by a mere grovelly retraction.
>
> [...]
>
> Sorry I lacked clarity before. I meant that all THEY had to do was find a stop watch and a notepad if the fancy automated systems failed. I wasn't denying the level to which they failed to cover the RR - but wanted to posit that cocking up the TT would involve incompetence an order of magnitude greater.
> [...]
>
> No need to apologise - you shouldn't be denied the chance to vent your response by a mere grovelly retraction.
>
> [...]
>
> Sorry I lacked clarity before. I meant that all THEY had to do was find a stop watch and a notepad if the fancy automated systems failed. I wasn't denying the level to which they failed to cover the RR - but wanted to posit that cocking up the TT would involve incompetence an order of magnitude greater.
thats true, assuming pictures are consistent.
In reply to fxceltic:
The mobile cameras will be producing footage continuously, and the director / producer chooses to cut between them. If they had their thinking caps on they could have given the work experience boy a stop watch and told him to look at two screens.
I think the lack of a specialist director is the problem in the coverage. How can you cut effectively between shots without knowing what the audience needs to see? Reminds me of the awful 5 nations coverage in Paris during the early 90s... how many tries were missed in favour of slow motion footage of a rooster?!
> (In reply to parkovski)
> [...]
>
> most of the coverage was provided by mobile camera units on bikes that were not necessarily filming at the same points so manual timechecks will have been difficult.
> [...]
>
> most of the coverage was provided by mobile camera units on bikes that were not necessarily filming at the same points so manual timechecks will have been difficult.
The mobile cameras will be producing footage continuously, and the director / producer chooses to cut between them. If they had their thinking caps on they could have given the work experience boy a stop watch and told him to look at two screens.
I think the lack of a specialist director is the problem in the coverage. How can you cut effectively between shots without knowing what the audience needs to see? Reminds me of the awful 5 nations coverage in Paris during the early 90s... how many tries were missed in favour of slow motion footage of a rooster?!
In reply to CarbonCopy: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/534157/cavendish-to-join-bbc-com...
this should improve the commentary for the track events
this should improve the commentary for the track events
In reply to CarbonCopy:
This is all very curious - there was a big mobile comms tower that appeared on Box Hill, but phone reception was exactly the same as it usually is there - drop off the top of Headley down one of the three steep hills and the signal dies.
Did someone actually switch it on?
This is all very curious - there was a big mobile comms tower that appeared on Box Hill, but phone reception was exactly the same as it usually is there - drop off the top of Headley down one of the three steep hills and the signal dies.
Did someone actually switch it on?
In reply to parkovski:
The BBC only had complete control to show the race or not at any given instant. They were just provided a feed to put commentary over and rebroadcast in any territories they had the rights to transmit in. OBS provided the live footage to the multitude of international broadcasters as we saw it. I doubt the BBC had permission to have any vehicles on the course during the race to create their own footage.
> (In reply to Byronius Maximus)
>
> I don't think it was quite that - I think the BBC has complete control over everything that's shown on screen. The problem with the road race is that (through either their fault or the organisers) they didn't have any useful information to display. It would have been nice to see them think on their feet and have manual timings when the technology failed though.
>
> I don't think it was quite that - I think the BBC has complete control over everything that's shown on screen. The problem with the road race is that (through either their fault or the organisers) they didn't have any useful information to display. It would have been nice to see them think on their feet and have manual timings when the technology failed though.
The BBC only had complete control to show the race or not at any given instant. They were just provided a feed to put commentary over and rebroadcast in any territories they had the rights to transmit in. OBS provided the live footage to the multitude of international broadcasters as we saw it. I doubt the BBC had permission to have any vehicles on the course during the race to create their own footage.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Sounds like they're GPS/GPRS units; acquiring position via GPS, and sending that position via GPRS (mobile phone) to a timing/positioning server. If the network is overloaded with traffic, then the transceivers may not be able to connect.
I guess it depends on the medium by which tweets are being made; via text ought not to cause GPRS issues. By accessing a website (to read & post), may well be using up data bandwidth that will lock out the transceivers.
> The GPS tags on the riders use the O2 network to communicate with LOCOGs systems
Sounds like they're GPS/GPRS units; acquiring position via GPS, and sending that position via GPRS (mobile phone) to a timing/positioning server. If the network is overloaded with traffic, then the transceivers may not be able to connect.
I guess it depends on the medium by which tweets are being made; via text ought not to cause GPRS issues. By accessing a website (to read & post), may well be using up data bandwidth that will lock out the transceivers.
In reply to Liam M:
excuse my ignorance - I'd thought the OBS were just the infrastructure and the BBC did the production and broadcasting. All my points stand, but substitute OBS for BBC.
So in summary - the reason the live coverage of lots of olympic sports is below the standard you would expect of the BBC is that it's not being controlled by the BBC.
Having just googled 'olympic broadcasting service' everything becomes clear.
excuse my ignorance - I'd thought the OBS were just the infrastructure and the BBC did the production and broadcasting. All my points stand, but substitute OBS for BBC.
So in summary - the reason the live coverage of lots of olympic sports is below the standard you would expect of the BBC is that it's not being controlled by the BBC.
Having just googled 'olympic broadcasting service' everything becomes clear.
In reply to captain paranoia:
It's a simple matter of network bandwidth management aka traffic shaping. You prioritize the important stuff (race data) and consign Twitter traffic to he network black hole. The fact it didn't work is almost certainly down to lack of forward planning and/or cooperation between LECOG and the netowrk provider.
> (In reply to mkean)
>
> I guess it depends on the medium by which tweets are being made; via text ought not to cause GPRS issues. By accessing a website (to read & post), may well be using up data bandwidth that will lock out the transceivers.
> I guess it depends on the medium by which tweets are being made; via text ought not to cause GPRS issues. By accessing a website (to read & post), may well be using up data bandwidth that will lock out the transceivers.
It's a simple matter of network bandwidth management aka traffic shaping. You prioritize the important stuff (race data) and consign Twitter traffic to he network black hole. The fact it didn't work is almost certainly down to lack of forward planning and/or cooperation between LECOG and the netowrk provider.
In reply to tim000:
Hopefully he'll get his hands on David Bond whilst he's there...
> (In reply to CarbonCopy) http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/534157/cavendish-to-join-bbc-com...
> this should improve the commentary for the track events
> this should improve the commentary for the track events
Hopefully he'll get his hands on David Bond whilst he's there...
In reply to andy:
Who'll doubtless be demanding answers as to why Chris Hoy didn't overtake that bloke on a motorbike...
> (In reply to tim000)
> [...]
>
> Hopefully he'll get his hands on David Bond whilst he's there...
> [...]
>
> Hopefully he'll get his hands on David Bond whilst he's there...
Who'll doubtless be demanding answers as to why Chris Hoy didn't overtake that bloke on a motorbike...
In reply to wilkesley:
Some ISPs say they don't employ traffic shaping as it isn't fair on users.
Some ISPs say they don't employ traffic shaping as it isn't fair on users.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
O2 definitely employ traffic shaping. Even if your ISP claims it doesn't, someone upstream of them will be doing traffic shaping.
O2 definitely employ traffic shaping. Even if your ISP claims it doesn't, someone upstream of them will be doing traffic shaping.
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