In reply to Frank the Husky:
> Oh Andy! that's the sort of anecdotal, overemotional nonsense that makes a decent debate hard to have. I climb sport and trad with a wide range of people and all of us (from 21 to 65+) completely care about these things, and understand them very well.
> Ethics change with the times, that's what happens in medicine, law and climbing. If you want climbing ethics to stay the same, let's go back to 1896 shall we?
> Climbing history isn't being destroyed by a grotty quarry being retrobolted...climbing history is being added to.
> You naughty boy.
Hi Martin,
My apologies for the perhaps over emotive language in the sentence you picked out. You did ignore the rest of my post however
'I really do have problems with the wholesale bolting of existing routes on a crag to create a 'sport venue' however. Bolting V. Diff. and Severe crack lines on Portland I just regard as a bit sad. Norber Scar is an interesting case. In another thread I wondered why it was felt necessary to bolt an HVS that had been put up by Allan Austin. And then re-name it and claim a 'first ascent'.
We would not be having this debate 40 years ago.
Nor 30 years ago.
20 years ago Ken would have been warning us about the 'thin end...'
10 years ago there might have still been an interesting debate.
Now? I get the impression that very few people give a flying f*ck about the preservation of the trad ethic and the preservation of our climbing history.'
I have to fundamentally disagree with your statement that 'climbing history isn't being destroyed' and that 'climbing history is being added to.' Climbing history IS being destroyed if we have routes done by some of our greatest climbers being retro-bolted, re-named and re-claimed. You want concrete? Windy Wall at Norber Scar.
And, of course, there is a fundamental difference between the 'history' (what was done)and the 'tradition' (that which we hope will be done).
I could go out tomorrow (if I wasn't working) and chip buckets up Froggatt Great Slab (to choose a random route) to make it accessible to more climbers. That act would then become a part of your 'climbing history'. Doesn't make it 'right' though? And you would obviously recognise that.
I do acknowledge that I am a naughty boy. No problem. But fail to see how bolting Lester Mill Quarry advances our passion one iota.
Andy.
Oh. And I have realised that my decades are maybe a wee bit out as the first bolts were probably going in about 30 years ago. But I'm sure you got my drift.
By the way; my eldest lad can't see why I get wound up. 'Bolt 'em all' would summarise it.