This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
After being tempted to hijack someone else's thread, I'll raise my thought in a new one instead.
Can we name some sports that are widely seen as not extreme sports, but are more likely to result in a fairly serious injury such as a broken ankle or whacked head than sport climbing?
Edit: May I start us off:
Cycling
Football and, probably,
fell - running.
Post edited at 17:30
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In reply to Duncan Beard:
Football for sure. I fell off when I was soloing about 10 years and ended up with a small fracture to the pelvis I was in hospital overnight next to someone who had a spiral fracture in his leg sustained in a football game. I was climbing after about 4 weeks, and back to full strength after about 4 months. I bumped into the same bloke about 6 months after the hospital admission and his leg was still in plaster and he was on crutches.
Probably less fatalities on the football pitch though, people can die when they sport climb.
Football for sure. I fell off when I was soloing about 10 years and ended up with a small fracture to the pelvis I was in hospital overnight next to someone who had a spiral fracture in his leg sustained in a football game. I was climbing after about 4 weeks, and back to full strength after about 4 months. I bumped into the same bloke about 6 months after the hospital admission and his leg was still in plaster and he was on crutches.
Probably less fatalities on the football pitch though, people can die when they sport climb.
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In reply to Cake
http://thoughty2.com/p/87/worlds-10-most-dangerous-sports
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/datablog/2014/nov/04/which-sport-is...
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/dec/30/is-skiing-the-worlds-m...
Difficult to measure as you need to take into account how popular the activities are as well as how many people end up dead or injured.
Personally I remember the PYB staff every course telling us to wear our seatbelt as the minibus is the most dangerous part of the day.
http://thoughty2.com/p/87/worlds-10-most-dangerous-sports
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/datablog/2014/nov/04/which-sport-is...
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/dec/30/is-skiing-the-worlds-m...
Difficult to measure as you need to take into account how popular the activities are as well as how many people end up dead or injured.
Personally I remember the PYB staff every course telling us to wear our seatbelt as the minibus is the most dangerous part of the day.
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In reply to Cake:
The squash league claimed the lives of several middle managers when I worked in IT. Racquet sports look easy at first glance but the effect of dashing about on furred arteries is not good.
The squash league claimed the lives of several middle managers when I worked in IT. Racquet sports look easy at first glance but the effect of dashing about on furred arteries is not good.
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In reply to marsbar:
I've heard this several times and while good advice, it's also a poor understanding of statistics. On average you're more likely to die in a motor accident than while rock climbing but climbing is way more dangerous per unit time spent doing it.
> Personally I remember the PYB staff every course telling us to wear our seatbelt as the minibus is the most dangerous part of the day.
I've heard this several times and while good advice, it's also a poor understanding of statistics. On average you're more likely to die in a motor accident than while rock climbing but climbing is way more dangerous per unit time spent doing it.
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In reply to Trevers:
Typical unhelpful and hypocritical internet waffle. Posting unsubstantiated statements criticising other unsubstantiated statements doesn't help further the debate.
Any chance of backing it up with some evidence?
On a completely unscientific basis I've seen a PyB minibus crashed on its side but am not aware of any climbing injuries on their courses (unlike another place's Winter courses) so I don't find the original and fairly specific proposition as unbelievable as you seem to.
> I've heard this several times and while good advice, it's also a poor understanding of statistics. On average you're more likely to die in a motor accident than while rock climbing but climbing is way more dangerous per unit time spent doing it.
Typical unhelpful and hypocritical internet waffle. Posting unsubstantiated statements criticising other unsubstantiated statements doesn't help further the debate.
Any chance of backing it up with some evidence?
On a completely unscientific basis I've seen a PyB minibus crashed on its side but am not aware of any climbing injuries on their courses (unlike another place's Winter courses) so I don't find the original and fairly specific proposition as unbelievable as you seem to.
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In reply to Trevers:
I was sea kayaking not climbing. Not sure if that is more or less dangerous. But fairly sure that any of the outdoor activities under the careful supervision of extremely well qualified staff are reasonably safe. Risk management is the key.
I was sea kayaking not climbing. Not sure if that is more or less dangerous. But fairly sure that any of the outdoor activities under the careful supervision of extremely well qualified staff are reasonably safe. Risk management is the key.
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In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
I read somewhere that bowls has a very high incidence of deaths of participants.
I read somewhere that bowls has a very high incidence of deaths of participants.
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In reply to Cake:
Mountain biking, ambulances are quite a common site at my local trail centre, Llandegla
Mountain biking, ambulances are quite a common site at my local trail centre, Llandegla
In reply to Xavierpercy:
That's because the stereotypical participant age is that of a coffin dodger
That's because the stereotypical participant age is that of a coffin dodger
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In reply to Cake:
From experience ?
Football - broken nose
Rugby - broken collar bone
Climbing - broken finger
Mountain Biking - broken neck, broken back, broken sternum, cracked ribs
Road biking - bit of a sore botty ( chamois rash )
Golf - erm . . . . . Nothing to report
From experience ?
Football - broken nose
Rugby - broken collar bone
Climbing - broken finger
Mountain Biking - broken neck, broken back, broken sternum, cracked ribs
Road biking - bit of a sore botty ( chamois rash )
Golf - erm . . . . . Nothing to report
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In reply to Mr. Lee:
Why Not direct on Crag Lough.
My partner had reached the crux but couldn't make the last few moves ( HVS my Arse!)
I lowered him down and then tried to lead the pitch. I fell off, of course, and as I did the rope slipped into the crack that my hand was using as a hold. He had placed a rock about a foot above my position and as I fell, the rope wrapped itself around my pinkie and my weight did the rest.
Ouch!
It was a Sunday night and in them days last orders were at ten so we managed to make The Twice Brewed for a pint.
Why Not direct on Crag Lough.
My partner had reached the crux but couldn't make the last few moves ( HVS my Arse!)
I lowered him down and then tried to lead the pitch. I fell off, of course, and as I did the rope slipped into the crack that my hand was using as a hold. He had placed a rock about a foot above my position and as I fell, the rope wrapped itself around my pinkie and my weight did the rest.
Ouch!
It was a Sunday night and in them days last orders were at ten so we managed to make The Twice Brewed for a pint.
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In reply to Cake:
Field hockey can be pretty lethal, in the last three- four years I've witnessed:
Three broken arms
Two broken hands (both needing surgery)
One broken leg
Two broken noses
Four lost teeth (three different people)
One broken jaw
One broken eye socket
Five broken fingers
One amputated finger
One broken collar bone
A lad at old loughts sadly died after an accident at training earlier this month.
Give me climbing any day!
Field hockey can be pretty lethal, in the last three- four years I've witnessed:
Three broken arms
Two broken hands (both needing surgery)
One broken leg
Two broken noses
Four lost teeth (three different people)
One broken jaw
One broken eye socket
Five broken fingers
One amputated finger
One broken collar bone
A lad at old loughts sadly died after an accident at training earlier this month.
Give me climbing any day!
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In reply to Mr. Lee:
Those guys don't even usually helmets do they?
> Silly point in cricket seems cricket suicide.
Those guys don't even usually helmets do they?
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In reply to Cake:
What about any of the usual athletics events? Long jump, soft put, high jump. Do any of those have a high injury rate?
What about any of the usual athletics events? Long jump, soft put, high jump. Do any of those have a high injury rate?
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Can't be arsed to look for the PDF, but the Austrian AC published a study a few years ago that found mountain sports overall to be slightly more risky than driving (normalized per hour of activity).
This effect disappeared when you took out the most common cause of death, i.e. cardiac arrest in middle aged or elderly hikers, counting it as a health related rather than activity related issue.
Sport climbing and even trad climbing was relatively safer than driving, the big killers which are clearly more dangerous than climbing are expedition climbing, alpine ski mountaineering (avalanches), and alpine routes above AD. If you stick to cragging and are not yet coffin dodging, driving to and from the venue indeed seems to be the greater risk.
CB
Can't be arsed to look for the PDF, but the Austrian AC published a study a few years ago that found mountain sports overall to be slightly more risky than driving (normalized per hour of activity).
This effect disappeared when you took out the most common cause of death, i.e. cardiac arrest in middle aged or elderly hikers, counting it as a health related rather than activity related issue.
Sport climbing and even trad climbing was relatively safer than driving, the big killers which are clearly more dangerous than climbing are expedition climbing, alpine ski mountaineering (avalanches), and alpine routes above AD. If you stick to cragging and are not yet coffin dodging, driving to and from the venue indeed seems to be the greater risk.
CB
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In reply to Trevers:
>climbing is way more dangerous per unit time spent doing it.
Surely the relevant thing is not per unit time but per unit time multiplied by the proportion of your time (personal risk) or the average person's time (average risk) spent doing it. That would give you your (or the average) risk per unit time from the activity.
>climbing is way more dangerous per unit time spent doing it.
Surely the relevant thing is not per unit time but per unit time multiplied by the proportion of your time (personal risk) or the average person's time (average risk) spent doing it. That would give you your (or the average) risk per unit time from the activity.
Post edited at 20:46
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In reply to Cake:
I've always considered fell running just about the most dangerous mountain activity of all. They go out up in the mountains in vests and shorts and no kit or extra clothing. Look at it this way, if you turn an ankle on the Hellvellyn summit plateau and you're just in shorts and a vest and all sweaty from the running, you could well be dead within an hour.
> Can we name some sports that are widely seen as not extreme sports, but are more likely to result in a fairly serious injury such as a broken ankle or whacked head than sport climbing?
> fell - running.
I've always considered fell running just about the most dangerous mountain activity of all. They go out up in the mountains in vests and shorts and no kit or extra clothing. Look at it this way, if you turn an ankle on the Hellvellyn summit plateau and you're just in shorts and a vest and all sweaty from the running, you could well be dead within an hour.
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In reply to harold walmsley:
For assessing overall risk to an individual from an activity, you're of course correct. I was only referring specifically to the assertion that the drive to the crag/beach/river is the most dangerous part of the day.
> >climbing is way more dangerous per unit time spent doing it.
> Surely the relevant thing is not per unit time but per unit time multiplied by the proportion of your time (personal risk) or the average person's time (average risk) spent doing it. That would give you your (or the average) risk per unit time from the activity.
For assessing overall risk to an individual from an activity, you're of course correct. I was only referring specifically to the assertion that the drive to the crag/beach/river is the most dangerous part of the day.
In reply to Cake:
Why just sport climbing? Most climbers take part in more than one type of climbing: bouldering, trad, soloing, big wall, DWS etc. And if you'd said just 'climbing' would it have made any difference to the answers?
Why just sport climbing? Most climbers take part in more than one type of climbing: bouldering, trad, soloing, big wall, DWS etc. And if you'd said just 'climbing' would it have made any difference to the answers?
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In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:
No, you just carry on. You can still run on torn ligaments. The trick is ot to stop and get off the mountain.
It may seem dangerous but its stats are pretty good. Most risks are pretty calculated.
I know some runners who class fell running as an extreme sport, my view it is for the incompetent.
> I've always considered fell running just about the most dangerous mountain activity of all. They go out up in the mountains in vests and shorts and no kit or extra clothing. Look at it this way, if you turn an ankle on the Hellvellyn summit plateau and you're just in shorts and a vest and all sweaty from the running, you could well be dead within an hour.
No, you just carry on. You can still run on torn ligaments. The trick is ot to stop and get off the mountain.
It may seem dangerous but its stats are pretty good. Most risks are pretty calculated.
I know some runners who class fell running as an extreme sport, my view it is for the incompetent.
In reply to Cake:
Raquet sports it is then. Pulled muscles are the only risk. Heart attacks as mentioned I think we can consider outside of sport, endurance or anaerobic as lifestyle and general everyday risk. As raquet sports make you fitter stress is dealt with positively.
Other non contact sports like shooting or archery too. Not golf as a hit on the head is more probable than a sport climbing hit on the head. This is worse than a torn ligament.
Then swimming I would say unless solo at sea as a habit and wind surfing too, but probably not kayaking as the range of venues is too broad to consider it safe in the event of an accident escalating to a dangerous event.
Hillwalking as there is little risk of rockfall but not mountain walking as then there is that risk as well as the vast variety of risky terrain and challenges that could get out of control.
Pub games, board games and cards unless for money where stress or bad people may be involved.
Raquet sports it is then. Pulled muscles are the only risk. Heart attacks as mentioned I think we can consider outside of sport, endurance or anaerobic as lifestyle and general everyday risk. As raquet sports make you fitter stress is dealt with positively.
Other non contact sports like shooting or archery too. Not golf as a hit on the head is more probable than a sport climbing hit on the head. This is worse than a torn ligament.
Then swimming I would say unless solo at sea as a habit and wind surfing too, but probably not kayaking as the range of venues is too broad to consider it safe in the event of an accident escalating to a dangerous event.
Hillwalking as there is little risk of rockfall but not mountain walking as then there is that risk as well as the vast variety of risky terrain and challenges that could get out of control.
Pub games, board games and cards unless for money where stress or bad people may be involved.
In reply to Trevers:
I would consider myself competent and in 99% control of my safety, barr the totally unforessen, falling sheep, the biggest earthquake in Europe etc.. ruining my day.
Driving; there are thousands of people driving without licence, tired, drunk, drugs, or now not medically safe to drive.
I'd stick to climbing where I can control a much greater proportion of the risk(statistically speaking).
> I've heard this several times and while good advice, it's also a poor understanding of statistics. On average you're more likely to die in a motor accident than while rock climbing but climbing is way more dangerous per unit time spent doing it.
I would consider myself competent and in 99% control of my safety, barr the totally unforessen, falling sheep, the biggest earthquake in Europe etc.. ruining my day.
Driving; there are thousands of people driving without licence, tired, drunk, drugs, or now not medically safe to drive.
I'd stick to climbing where I can control a much greater proportion of the risk(statistically speaking).
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In reply to stp:
Well, I have always viewed it as a very safe sport even though it is classed by many as an extreme sport. In fact I am not interested in it much myself. Trad (and highballing) can become extremely dangerous on an individual case by case basis. I didn't want the conversation to become "when I'm placing gear it's safer than snooker" or whatever.
> Why just sport climbing?
Well, I have always viewed it as a very safe sport even though it is classed by many as an extreme sport. In fact I am not interested in it much myself. Trad (and highballing) can become extremely dangerous on an individual case by case basis. I didn't want the conversation to become "when I'm placing gear it's safer than snooker" or whatever.
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I'm sure I read somewhere gymnastics has some particularly bad stats for accidents. I'll see if I can dig it up
In reply to Roadrunner5:
Agreed. In addition I always carry an nice sweaty orange sack, and windproof top and bottoms. If things went really badly I'd put my layers on, get in said sack an call my mates (or even MR since we're talking about life/death situations) and wait for them to scrap me up. If I died from exposure within an hour or two I'd be glad I'd removed my weak genes from the pool*.
*Obviously this is a slight exaggeration, but in the UK you would struggle to die from the weather that fast, even if you were dumped on top of a mountain in the grim.
> No, you just carry on. You can still run on torn ligaments. The trick is ot to stop and get off the mountain.
Agreed. In addition I always carry an nice sweaty orange sack, and windproof top and bottoms. If things went really badly I'd put my layers on, get in said sack an call my mates (or even MR since we're talking about life/death situations) and wait for them to scrap me up. If I died from exposure within an hour or two I'd be glad I'd removed my weak genes from the pool*.
*Obviously this is a slight exaggeration, but in the UK you would struggle to die from the weather that fast, even if you were dumped on top of a mountain in the grim.
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In reply to Cake:
I think mountain biking provides more ways to break almost any bit of your body than anything else I can think of - risk of being deaded is probably quite small though?
Fell-running seems like it should be dangerous but I rarely hear of anything serious beyond broken ankles - is this correct?
I think mountain biking provides more ways to break almost any bit of your body than anything else I can think of - risk of being deaded is probably quite small though?
Fell-running seems like it should be dangerous but I rarely hear of anything serious beyond broken ankles - is this correct?
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In reply to Roadrunner5:
I'd also add ordinary hockey. My boss was for ever ribbing me about the dangers of "hanging on by my finger nails" whilst sporting the latest set of bruises from his last weekends match.
Squash as well - either being hit by the ball or the opponent.
I'd also add ordinary hockey. My boss was for ever ribbing me about the dangers of "hanging on by my finger nails" whilst sporting the latest set of bruises from his last weekends match.
Squash as well - either being hit by the ball or the opponent.
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In reply to Cake:
To be sort-of scientific about it we can look at the view of the BMC's insurers, who have a huge history of claims to look at (but remember they are looking at cost of injury not severity). If you have BMC travel insurance no sports are allowed with the exception of
Aerobics, Angling, Archery, Badminton, Ballooning: hot air (passenger only), Banana boating, Bar work, Baseball, Basketball, Beach games, Billiards, Bird watching, Bodyboarding, Bowling, Bowls, Bridge, Camel trekking, Chess, Cricket, Croquet, Cycling , except cycle touring, cycle racing, BMX and/or mountain biking), Dancing, Darts, Dinghy , ailing (on-competitive and on inland or coastal waters only), Elephant riding/trekking (UK , ooked), Football: beach kick-around, Freshwater/sea fishing, Frisbee, Fruit or vegetable , icking, Glass-bottom boats, Golf, Historical research, Indoor skating, Jogging, Keep fit, Motorcycling on public roads (tarmac/concrete) with appropriate UK licence and no racing , inc. as a passenger) up to 125cc, Netball, Pilates, Pony trekking, Pool, Quoits, Racquetball, Re-enactment, Restaurant work, Ringos, Rounders, Safari (UK organised – no guns), Sail boarding, Snooker, Snorkelling, Softball, Squash (amateur), Surfing (amateur), Swimming , amateur), Table tennis, Ten-pin bowling, Tug-of-war, Volleyball, Wakeboarding (amateur), Water Skiing (amateur), Whale watching, Windsurfing, Working (non-manual work e.g. , ffice or attending a conference), Yoga.
If you buy trekking insurance you are also covered for
Backpacking, Camping, Canoeing and kayaking (inland waters up to and including Grade 3), Cycle touring, Dragonboat racing, Fell walking, Fencing, Glacier walking, Gorilla trekking, Hill walking, Horse Riding (excluding racing & jumps), Horse Trekking, Mountain walking, Paintballing (professionally organised), Rambling, Rock scrambling (ungraded), Rowing, Safari (non-UK organised), Sea kayaking (coastal waters up to 12 miles offshore), Snorkelling, Snowshoeing, Surfing (competitive), Swim Trekking, Swimming (competitive), Sydney Harbour Bridge, Trekking, Via ferrata, Wake Boarding (competitive), Water polo, Water Skiing (competitive), Winter mountain walking.
To be sort-of scientific about it we can look at the view of the BMC's insurers, who have a huge history of claims to look at (but remember they are looking at cost of injury not severity). If you have BMC travel insurance no sports are allowed with the exception of
Aerobics, Angling, Archery, Badminton, Ballooning: hot air (passenger only), Banana boating, Bar work, Baseball, Basketball, Beach games, Billiards, Bird watching, Bodyboarding, Bowling, Bowls, Bridge, Camel trekking, Chess, Cricket, Croquet, Cycling , except cycle touring, cycle racing, BMX and/or mountain biking), Dancing, Darts, Dinghy , ailing (on-competitive and on inland or coastal waters only), Elephant riding/trekking (UK , ooked), Football: beach kick-around, Freshwater/sea fishing, Frisbee, Fruit or vegetable , icking, Glass-bottom boats, Golf, Historical research, Indoor skating, Jogging, Keep fit, Motorcycling on public roads (tarmac/concrete) with appropriate UK licence and no racing , inc. as a passenger) up to 125cc, Netball, Pilates, Pony trekking, Pool, Quoits, Racquetball, Re-enactment, Restaurant work, Ringos, Rounders, Safari (UK organised – no guns), Sail boarding, Snooker, Snorkelling, Softball, Squash (amateur), Surfing (amateur), Swimming , amateur), Table tennis, Ten-pin bowling, Tug-of-war, Volleyball, Wakeboarding (amateur), Water Skiing (amateur), Whale watching, Windsurfing, Working (non-manual work e.g. , ffice or attending a conference), Yoga.
If you buy trekking insurance you are also covered for
Backpacking, Camping, Canoeing and kayaking (inland waters up to and including Grade 3), Cycle touring, Dragonboat racing, Fell walking, Fencing, Glacier walking, Gorilla trekking, Hill walking, Horse Riding (excluding racing & jumps), Horse Trekking, Mountain walking, Paintballing (professionally organised), Rambling, Rock scrambling (ungraded), Rowing, Safari (non-UK organised), Sea kayaking (coastal waters up to 12 miles offshore), Snorkelling, Snowshoeing, Surfing (competitive), Swim Trekking, Swimming (competitive), Sydney Harbour Bridge, Trekking, Via ferrata, Wake Boarding (competitive), Water polo, Water Skiing (competitive), Winter mountain walking.
In reply to howifeel:
Pretty safe unless you are sailing in big surf which is very much a minority end of the game. It used to be my major sport and I still get out sometimes. I've hurt a shoulder landing on the mast, pretty sore for a couple of weeks. I've heard of people knocking out teeth, again bashing the rig in seriously rough water. That's the worst I've come across, knowing many people in the sport.
> wind surfing too
Pretty safe unless you are sailing in big surf which is very much a minority end of the game. It used to be my major sport and I still get out sometimes. I've hurt a shoulder landing on the mast, pretty sore for a couple of weeks. I've heard of people knocking out teeth, again bashing the rig in seriously rough water. That's the worst I've come across, knowing many people in the sport.
In reply to Cake:
Insurers view Part 2
If you buy rock climbing insurance you are additionally covered for
Abseiling, Big-wall climbing, Bouldering, Deep-water soloing, Cross-country running, Fell Running, Indoor wall climbing, Lead climbing, Low ropes, Marathon running, Mountain , Running (e.g. Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc or Marathon des Sables), Orienteering, Rap running/jumping, River walking, Rock scrambling (graded), Sailing/Yachting (non-, competitive on inland and coastal waters only), Solo climbing, Speed climbing, Sport climbing
There is a whole raft of extra activities insured with the Alpine and Ski policy, this bit is probably the answer to your original question
Adventure racing (up to 48 hours), Black Water Rafting (professionally organised), Canoeing & kayaking (inland waters up to and including Grade 5), Canyoning, Coasteering, Cycle racing, Gorge walking, High-ropes courses, Husky dog sledding, Hydrospeeding, Ice skating, Kite Surfing, Mountain biking (including downhill), Mountain boarding, Rollerblading , inline skating), Roller skating, Sandboarding, Sand-dune surfing/skiing, Skiboarding, Scuba , iving to 30m (if qualified or with qualified instructor; not solo), Skateboarding, Slacklining, Sledging/tobogganing, Sleigh riding (reindeer, horses or dogs), Snow biking, Snow holing, Snow scooting, Snow tubing, Snowboarding (Europe only), Tree-top canopy walking, Triathlon, White-water rafting (up to and including Grade 5), Zip trekking, Zorbing.
with the BMC's previous insurers if you bought Himalayan and greater ranges insurance the only extra activity covered was bungee jumping, it is not covered now!
Insurers view Part 2
If you buy rock climbing insurance you are additionally covered for
Abseiling, Big-wall climbing, Bouldering, Deep-water soloing, Cross-country running, Fell Running, Indoor wall climbing, Lead climbing, Low ropes, Marathon running, Mountain , Running (e.g. Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc or Marathon des Sables), Orienteering, Rap running/jumping, River walking, Rock scrambling (graded), Sailing/Yachting (non-, competitive on inland and coastal waters only), Solo climbing, Speed climbing, Sport climbing
There is a whole raft of extra activities insured with the Alpine and Ski policy, this bit is probably the answer to your original question
Adventure racing (up to 48 hours), Black Water Rafting (professionally organised), Canoeing & kayaking (inland waters up to and including Grade 5), Canyoning, Coasteering, Cycle racing, Gorge walking, High-ropes courses, Husky dog sledding, Hydrospeeding, Ice skating, Kite Surfing, Mountain biking (including downhill), Mountain boarding, Rollerblading , inline skating), Roller skating, Sandboarding, Sand-dune surfing/skiing, Skiboarding, Scuba , iving to 30m (if qualified or with qualified instructor; not solo), Skateboarding, Slacklining, Sledging/tobogganing, Sleigh riding (reindeer, horses or dogs), Snow biking, Snow holing, Snow scooting, Snow tubing, Snowboarding (Europe only), Tree-top canopy walking, Triathlon, White-water rafting (up to and including Grade 5), Zip trekking, Zorbing.
with the BMC's previous insurers if you bought Himalayan and greater ranges insurance the only extra activity covered was bungee jumping, it is not covered now!
Post edited at 09:53
In reply to Roadrunner5:
When I was at uni, there was a big lake on campus popular with local anglers. For each of the three years that I was there, there were almost identical fatalities. Single male, fishing at night, for some reason goes in the water and drowns. Body found by early morning student runner/jogger.
> Fishing
When I was at uni, there was a big lake on campus popular with local anglers. For each of the three years that I was there, there were almost identical fatalities. Single male, fishing at night, for some reason goes in the water and drowns. Body found by early morning student runner/jogger.
In reply to Cake:
Base jumping!! See:
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/risk/sports.html
and for bedtime reading if you want the science:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1332232/pdf/brjsmed00012-0019.p...
Chris
Base jumping!! See:
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/risk/sports.html
and for bedtime reading if you want the science:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1332232/pdf/brjsmed00012-0019.p...
Chris
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In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:
The facts don't bear this out. There are very few accidents and people mostly get themselves off the hill - mountain rescue or even race organisers/marshals are rarely involved. This may be the (perceived?) barrier to entry - most people have some degree of mountain sense and self-reliance (which isn't to say everyone's a great navigator!). It'll be interesting to see if this changes as the sport gets better known and more on the ticklist of things people want to have a pop at ToughMudder/triathlon/Fred Whitton/Etape/etc. Not convinced though.
> I've always considered fell running just about the most dangerous mountain activity of all. They go out up in the mountains in vests and shorts and no kit or extra clothing. Look at it this way, if you turn an ankle on the Hellvellyn summit plateau and you're just in shorts and a vest and all sweaty from the running, you could well be dead within an hour.
The facts don't bear this out. There are very few accidents and people mostly get themselves off the hill - mountain rescue or even race organisers/marshals are rarely involved. This may be the (perceived?) barrier to entry - most people have some degree of mountain sense and self-reliance (which isn't to say everyone's a great navigator!). It'll be interesting to see if this changes as the sport gets better known and more on the ticklist of things people want to have a pop at ToughMudder/triathlon/Fred Whitton/Etape/etc. Not convinced though.
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In reply to Tricky Dicky:
Personally, I would be suspecting the student runner/jogger. Did the police not investigate him/her?
> When I was at uni, there was a big lake on campus popular with local anglers. For each of the three years that I was there, there were almost identical fatalities. Single male, fishing at night, for some reason goes in the water and drowns. Body found by early morning student runner/jogger.
Personally, I would be suspecting the student runner/jogger. Did the police not investigate him/her?
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In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:
I'm a fell runner, and I'd probably agree with you on that. Add to the mix that many fell runners seem to regard a complete inability to read a map as something to be proud about, and you've got a recipe for disaster.
I probably over-compensate by taking rather too many extra layers, bivvy bags, etc
> I've always considered fell running just about the most dangerous mountain activity of all.
I'm a fell runner, and I'd probably agree with you on that. Add to the mix that many fell runners seem to regard a complete inability to read a map as something to be proud about, and you've got a recipe for disaster.
I probably over-compensate by taking rather too many extra layers, bivvy bags, etc
In reply to Cake:
Not really, however;
A Discus going over the top of the cage splitting someones head open,
A shot (16lb) missing the sector and landing on someones head,
A Discus clobbering an Official (outside the ropes) in the back at 50metres plus,
Broken legs in sprint and 400 hurdles,
broken legs and arms in steeplechase,
people running to collect javelins and getting impaled - the tail end is actually sharper than the pointy end,
starters firing down their legs and burning their trousers (not sure about inside the trousers),
plus last year, one of these new orange guns having the hammer break whilst being cocked, which led to the gun going off when next to the poor devils stomach (don't worry - he was OK, apart from shock - and maybe underwear !)
Obviously, any and all events also involve twisted ankles, Achilles injuries etc..
> What about any of the usual athletics events? Long jump, soft put, high jump. Do any of those have a high injury rate?
Not really, however;
A Discus going over the top of the cage splitting someones head open,
A shot (16lb) missing the sector and landing on someones head,
A Discus clobbering an Official (outside the ropes) in the back at 50metres plus,
Broken legs in sprint and 400 hurdles,
broken legs and arms in steeplechase,
people running to collect javelins and getting impaled - the tail end is actually sharper than the pointy end,
starters firing down their legs and burning their trousers (not sure about inside the trousers),
plus last year, one of these new orange guns having the hammer break whilst being cocked, which led to the gun going off when next to the poor devils stomach (don't worry - he was OK, apart from shock - and maybe underwear !)
Obviously, any and all events also involve twisted ankles, Achilles injuries etc..
In reply to scott titt:
Do they take location into account? I imagine a quiet country pub could be a lot less dangerous than Yates's Wine Lodge, for instance.
> To be sort-of scientific about it we can look at the view of the BMC's insurers, who have a huge history of claims to look at (but remember they are looking at cost of injury not severity). If you have BMC travel insurance no sports are allowed with the exception of
> ...Bar work...
Do they take location into account? I imagine a quiet country pub could be a lot less dangerous than Yates's Wine Lodge, for instance.
1
In reply to scott titt:
Another way of looking at things...
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120302-extreme-sports-a-risky-business
Another way of looking at things...
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120302-extreme-sports-a-risky-business
1
In reply to Cake:
motor bike racing, and caving seem to have a few fatalities ......? (obviously not doing both at the same time!)
motor bike racing, and caving seem to have a few fatalities ......? (obviously not doing both at the same time!)
In reply to Cake:
Info from BMC website:
According to the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (ROSPA), you are far more likely to be injured playing sports like football and cricket than hill walking or rock climbing.
Accidents per 100m hours of activity:
1,000 Walking
4,000 Rock climbing
7,000 Cycling
10,000 Horse riding
Info from BMC website:
According to the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (ROSPA), you are far more likely to be injured playing sports like football and cricket than hill walking or rock climbing.
Accidents per 100m hours of activity:
1,000 Walking
4,000 Rock climbing
7,000 Cycling
10,000 Horse riding
1
In reply to scott titt:
and also looks to be a great opportunity for insurers to turn down a few a claims!
Tripped and broke your ankle when going for a run in the countryside on a walking holiday? Sorry you only have trekking insurance, you need the rock climbing extension to cover that.
Fell off a slackline and broke your ankle on a hot rock trip ? Sorry you only have the rock climbing cover, you need the Alpine and Ski extension to cover that.
> To be sort-of scientific about it we can look at the view of the BMC's insurers, who have a huge history of claims to look at (but remember they are looking at cost of injury not severity).
and also looks to be a great opportunity for insurers to turn down a few a claims!
Tripped and broke your ankle when going for a run in the countryside on a walking holiday? Sorry you only have trekking insurance, you need the rock climbing extension to cover that.
Fell off a slackline and broke your ankle on a hot rock trip ? Sorry you only have the rock climbing cover, you need the Alpine and Ski extension to cover that.
1
In reply to coinneach:
Golf is very dangerous - prime spot for unfit pensioners to have a cardiac arrest from any slight incline.
Golf is very dangerous - prime spot for unfit pensioners to have a cardiac arrest from any slight incline.
In reply to Cake:
I dislocated and fractured my elbow playing kiss chase when I was 11.
I would say boxing or MMA. I don't know if these are yet considered 'acceptable' sports but I know increasing numbers of people getting into these as a form of excercise.
I dislocated and fractured my elbow playing kiss chase when I was 11.
I would say boxing or MMA. I don't know if these are yet considered 'acceptable' sports but I know increasing numbers of people getting into these as a form of excercise.
1
In reply to Cake:
It seems to me that only sports that have a real risk of death can be extreme sports. What is a more interesting question is the frequency of hospitalisations by sport. Sure if you really mess up climbing you can die, but surly mountain biking has a far higher A&E visitation rate?
It seems to me that only sports that have a real risk of death can be extreme sports. What is a more interesting question is the frequency of hospitalisations by sport. Sure if you really mess up climbing you can die, but surly mountain biking has a far higher A&E visitation rate?
4
In reply to Cake:
I've always been surprised by the number of injuries in skiing - given the number of families doing it is not really considered by most as an extreme sport I guess. Most parents would not normally say - let's take the 4 year old on an extreme sport holiday. Yet the slopes are full of little ones.
I've watched the ski petrol taking people off the slopes in their sledge/body bag things, but never had any numbers, until now.
My son got bagged then helicoptered off last week in Les Deux Alpes. This is a relatively small resort compared with some. Talking to the medical centre in the village we learnt that they see up to 35 people a day, with an average of 15. Some very serious indeed, but most of the bust collar bone type.
I've no idea what the numbers climbing in the Peak on a typical Saturday are but if anyone does know and knows the number of visits to A+E generated (anyone work in Sheffield A+E?) then you might be able to see where climbing fits compared to a very main stream family activity.
I've always been surprised by the number of injuries in skiing - given the number of families doing it is not really considered by most as an extreme sport I guess. Most parents would not normally say - let's take the 4 year old on an extreme sport holiday. Yet the slopes are full of little ones.
I've watched the ski petrol taking people off the slopes in their sledge/body bag things, but never had any numbers, until now.
My son got bagged then helicoptered off last week in Les Deux Alpes. This is a relatively small resort compared with some. Talking to the medical centre in the village we learnt that they see up to 35 people a day, with an average of 15. Some very serious indeed, but most of the bust collar bone type.
I've no idea what the numbers climbing in the Peak on a typical Saturday are but if anyone does know and knows the number of visits to A+E generated (anyone work in Sheffield A+E?) then you might be able to see where climbing fits compared to a very main stream family activity.
Post edited at 10:04
1
In reply to Duncan Beard:
About 10 people killed a year, mostly eventing but I'm not sure whether road accidents are excluded.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8339097.stm
I saw a 1993 reference that quoted 16 a year.
> Info from BMC website:
> 10,000 Horse riding
> 10,000 Horse riding
About 10 people killed a year, mostly eventing but I'm not sure whether road accidents are excluded.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8339097.stm
I saw a 1993 reference that quoted 16 a year.
In reply to David Coley:
well, in Edale MRT's yearbook it says, out of 113 incidents, the 90 at a known location - for 2014 are:-
38 hillwalker
22 climber
9 mountain bike
3 fell runner
3 paraglider
2 traffic accidents
13 other
saturday and sunday are the most dangerous days, so mebbe we should only climb on weekdays....
so...if an ordinary runner falls is he then a fellrunner
statisticaly speaking.. don't climb on sunday in september just after noon
well, in Edale MRT's yearbook it says, out of 113 incidents, the 90 at a known location - for 2014 are:-
38 hillwalker
22 climber
9 mountain bike
3 fell runner
3 paraglider
2 traffic accidents
13 other
saturday and sunday are the most dangerous days, so mebbe we should only climb on weekdays....
so...if an ordinary runner falls is he then a fellrunner
statisticaly speaking.. don't climb on sunday in september just after noon
In reply to Mr. Lee:
I thought being in the pack was worse.
see http://www.health24.com/Fitness/Sport/Rugby/Most-dangerous-rugby-positions-...
> I'd say rugby if you are Welsh and play in the back line.
I thought being in the pack was worse.
see http://www.health24.com/Fitness/Sport/Rugby/Most-dangerous-rugby-positions-...
In reply to Roadrunner5:
As somebody who has never done any fell running, I'm vaguely wondering what you'd class as bad luck and as incompetence? I ask because my dad and I saw somebody running up Skiddaw in strong wind with it being come enough for snow to still be on the ground last Xmas, and he only seemed to have his running shorts and top that he was wearing as equipment, and it seemed like he was taking a risk should something like a broken ankle happen. He'd have needed clothing from other people on the hill to not end up getting really cold in the strong wind.
I've been cold enough in prolonged wind doing conservation work in the fields at the side on Manchester Road or near Ringinglow in the Peak District, I don't much like to think how cold one could get sitting on Skiddaw in strong winds where snow is still hanging around just in t-shirt and running shorts.
> No, you just carry on. You can still run on torn ligaments. The trick is ot to stop and get off the mountain.
> It may seem dangerous but its stats are pretty good. Most risks are pretty calculated.
> I know some runners who class fell running as an extreme sport, my view it is for the incompetent.
As somebody who has never done any fell running, I'm vaguely wondering what you'd class as bad luck and as incompetence? I ask because my dad and I saw somebody running up Skiddaw in strong wind with it being come enough for snow to still be on the ground last Xmas, and he only seemed to have his running shorts and top that he was wearing as equipment, and it seemed like he was taking a risk should something like a broken ankle happen. He'd have needed clothing from other people on the hill to not end up getting really cold in the strong wind.
I've been cold enough in prolonged wind doing conservation work in the fields at the side on Manchester Road or near Ringinglow in the Peak District, I don't much like to think how cold one could get sitting on Skiddaw in strong winds where snow is still hanging around just in t-shirt and running shorts.
Post edited at 17:30
1
1
In reply to Orgsm:
A mate of mine suffered a detached retina and other eye damage after taking a shuttle to the eye. He can barely see out of it now. Be careful!
A mate of mine suffered a detached retina and other eye damage after taking a shuttle to the eye. He can barely see out of it now. Be careful!
In reply to Cake:
Google "micromort" as that's the accepted unit of probability of death whilst undertaking an activity (well I guess a "mort" would be the actual unit but micromorts are a more useful size).
Every piece of research I've come across says that BASE jumping is by far the most dangerous activity and that most of the other sports, "extreme" or otherwise, are sort of similar-ish (ie. within an order of magnitude of each other) with swimming being top of the list and climbing being surprisingly low. Interestingly, in the western world at least, we seem to have an acceptance of a risk of about 10 micromorts when taking part in an activity.
Of course this only considers risk to be risk of death. I guess the figures are different if you consider injuries too.
Google "micromort" as that's the accepted unit of probability of death whilst undertaking an activity (well I guess a "mort" would be the actual unit but micromorts are a more useful size).
Every piece of research I've come across says that BASE jumping is by far the most dangerous activity and that most of the other sports, "extreme" or otherwise, are sort of similar-ish (ie. within an order of magnitude of each other) with swimming being top of the list and climbing being surprisingly low. Interestingly, in the western world at least, we seem to have an acceptance of a risk of about 10 micromorts when taking part in an activity.
Of course this only considers risk to be risk of death. I guess the figures are different if you consider injuries too.
In reply to Cake:
I don't know how dangerous it actually is but medieval fighting looks quite mental. Risk of concussion at least.
youtube.com/watch?v=zsjlb2FfFUU&
I don't know how dangerous it actually is but medieval fighting looks quite mental. Risk of concussion at least.
youtube.com/watch?v=zsjlb2FfFUU&
Post edited at 20:03
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