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I stumbled upon a potentially amazing DWS project today close to home, above a river, with only one real snag - I could see the bottom very clearly and would estimate the depth at about 3m (taking account of the fact that actual depth is always greater than perceived depth due to refraction etc). I got about half way today and jumped as it felt kind of spooky being able to see the bottom so clearly - but perhaps I was being a bit of a wuss not just going for it. The route is a fairly stunning arête line that finishes at a ledge around 10m from where it's a jump to get down - no easy way down and the route is hard enough to make down-climbing out of the question - at least for me.
Assuming a fall or a jump from 10m with a good landing, approximately how much depth (minimum) is usually advisable to avoid injury - the bottom is rocky rather than muddy/sandy?
Post edited at 20:10
1
In reply to 1234None:
Depends how you land I guess.
Random guy on the internet suggests 9 ft/3m may not be enough.
https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-calculate-how-deep-in-water-you-will-fall-...
Depends how you land I guess.
Random guy on the internet suggests 9 ft/3m may not be enough.
https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-calculate-how-deep-in-water-you-will-fall-...
6
In reply to 1234None:
I'd put in stakes and an ab/jumar rope. Fair enough (or not?) pushing the boat out on a route but risking everything on a jump to get down? Wouldn't do that.
Mick
I'd put in stakes and an ab/jumar rope. Fair enough (or not?) pushing the boat out on a route but risking everything on a jump to get down? Wouldn't do that.
Mick
4
In reply to 1234None:
Slightly more authoritatively the minimum depth for an olympic 10m platform pool is 4.5m.
10m is a long way to fall into water. I did 13m on a coasteering trip - it hurt when I hit. And was terrifying.
Slightly more authoritatively the minimum depth for an olympic 10m platform pool is 4.5m.
10m is a long way to fall into water. I did 13m on a coasteering trip - it hurt when I hit. And was terrifying.
1
In reply to ewanjp:
Indeed - it seems a general rule is about 4-4.5m - so unless I can somehow make sure I just don't fall (hmmmm) it's a no go. Shame, as the line is stunning.
All I can hope for is a bit more depth after the next rain - that could easily give another metre so would make it a goer. The only downside to that is that the current is fairly strong as it is, so more water would make it fairly exciting from the perspective.
Indeed - it seems a general rule is about 4-4.5m - so unless I can somehow make sure I just don't fall (hmmmm) it's a no go. Shame, as the line is stunning.
All I can hope for is a bit more depth after the next rain - that could easily give another metre so would make it a goer. The only downside to that is that the current is fairly strong as it is, so more water would make it fairly exciting from the perspective.
1
In reply to 1234None:
It all depends how you land - if you do a' tombstone'/'tin soldier' you'll go really deep, if you land like you're lounging in an armchair you won't go anywhere near as far in (but it will hurt). I'd be amazed if you can see 12ft into a river though, you really should check the depth.
It all depends how you land - if you do a' tombstone'/'tin soldier' you'll go really deep, if you land like you're lounging in an armchair you won't go anywhere near as far in (but it will hurt). I'd be amazed if you can see 12ft into a river though, you really should check the depth.
7
In reply to 1234None:
Can u just grade it for the depth? That's what they do in Mallorca sport grade + S2/3
3m won't do shit from 10m
Can u just grade it for the depth? That's what they do in Mallorca sport grade + S2/3
3m won't do shit from 10m
1
In reply to ashtond6:
I wasn't going to give it grade...I'd just like to climb it without breaking my legs if I fall.
> Can u just grade it for the depth? That's what they do in Mallorca sport grade + S2/3
> 3m won't do shit from 10m
I wasn't going to give it grade...I'd just like to climb it without breaking my legs if I fall.
4
In reply to Toerag:
My depth check so far involved going down feet first until I hot the bottom and gauging approximately how far I'd gone down. I reckon my head was only just over 1m below the surface - hence 3m.
The water is pretty clear, hence the good visibility. In water like that, 3m visibility is not uncommon at all. There was even a guy snorkelling under the crag so that gives some idea of the water clarity. Unusual for a river I know, but there you go.
> It all depends how you land - if you do a' tombstone'/'tin soldier' you'll go really deep, if you land like you're lounging in an armchair you won't go anywhere near as far in (but it will hurt). I'd be amazed if you can see 12ft into a river though, you really should check the depth.
My depth check so far involved going down feet first until I hot the bottom and gauging approximately how far I'd gone down. I reckon my head was only just over 1m below the surface - hence 3m.
The water is pretty clear, hence the good visibility. In water like that, 3m visibility is not uncommon at all. There was even a guy snorkelling under the crag so that gives some idea of the water clarity. Unusual for a river I know, but there you go.
1
In reply to 1234None:
Didn't ancient sailors work out that they could calculate the depth with a piece of line attached to a rock that sunk? Sounds to me like you'll be about as safe as Martin Crocker was with arm bands tied to his harness at Ogmore.
Didn't ancient sailors work out that they could calculate the depth with a piece of line attached to a rock that sunk? Sounds to me like you'll be about as safe as Martin Crocker was with arm bands tied to his harness at Ogmore.
2
2
In reply to 1234None:
You could enlist a couple of climbing partners to tread water while holding onto a bouldering mat?
You could enlist a couple of climbing partners to tread water while holding onto a bouldering mat?
18
In reply to 1234None:
To give some idea how good the line is, this is it:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=298342
To give some idea how good the line is, this is it:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=298342
15
In reply to Toerag:
You want to avoid such landing, trust me. I once saw a guy jump from roughly 12m into the sea that way....his face was completely pale when he got out of the water. I'll spare you all the details but it wasn't a pretty sight
> .... if you land like you're lounging in an armchair you won't go anywhere near as far in (but it will hurt).
You want to avoid such landing, trust me. I once saw a guy jump from roughly 12m into the sea that way....his face was completely pale when he got out of the water. I'll spare you all the details but it wasn't a pretty sight
1
In reply to 1234None:
This video features some jumps off 20m+ into surprisingly shallow water. The guy doing the triple flips is Mike Wilson (a competitive freestyle skier who has done a number of these cliff jump videos).
youtube.com/watch?v=EGuBmyiq70g&
This video features some jumps off 20m+ into surprisingly shallow water. The guy doing the triple flips is Mike Wilson (a competitive freestyle skier who has done a number of these cliff jump videos).
youtube.com/watch?v=EGuBmyiq70g&
1
In reply to 1234None:
Why not ground up the route trying jumping off moves at successive heights until you're comfortable you're not going to injure yourself?
Why not ground up the route trying jumping off moves at successive heights until you're comfortable you're not going to injure yourself?
10
3
In reply to Michael Gordon:
I wondered about him anchoring some kind of floating airbed in the place where he'd land, or a few connected together, so that his energy when falling would displace the mat downwards and absorb his fall.
This might be a bad idea due to my shaky grasp of physics.
> You could enlist a couple of climbing partners to tread water while holding onto a bouldering mat?
I wondered about him anchoring some kind of floating airbed in the place where he'd land, or a few connected together, so that his energy when falling would displace the mat downwards and absorb his fall.
This might be a bad idea due to my shaky grasp of physics.
In reply to 1234None:
Top rope it or practice on an ab rope and just forget to mention it when you write up.
Top rope it or practice on an ab rope and just forget to mention it when you write up.
In reply to Timmd:
I think the theory is sound, it's just the practice which may prove difficult
I think the theory is sound, it's just the practice which may prove difficult
Post edited at 09:57
1
In reply to Wee Davie:
Yep do this, I've done this in Greece testing dws's and backed off a route once because my feet touched the bottom when I was still about 6ft from the top. Make sure you include the top out in your calcs cause it's still possible to fall as you're attempting to claw your way onto the top whilst grabbing branches and brambles!
Yep do this, I've done this in Greece testing dws's and backed off a route once because my feet touched the bottom when I was still about 6ft from the top. Make sure you include the top out in your calcs cause it's still possible to fall as you're attempting to claw your way onto the top whilst grabbing branches and brambles!
In reply to 1234None:
What about some of these for practice runs....
youtube.com/watch?v=TMJwYrIjxKU&
Hope he's still alive!
What about some of these for practice runs....
youtube.com/watch?v=TMJwYrIjxKU&
Hope he's still alive!
Post edited at 16:33
In reply to 1234None:
Get someone to hang a toprope down to the ledge that you can tie into once you've finished the route and be lowered off, maybe?
Obviously it wouldn't protect you if you fell near the end of the route, but it'd give you a safer way down, at least.
> The route is a fairly stunning arête line that finishes at a ledge around 10m from where it's a jump to get down - no easy way down and the route is hard enough to make down-climbing out of the question - at least for me.
Get someone to hang a toprope down to the ledge that you can tie into once you've finished the route and be lowered off, maybe?
Obviously it wouldn't protect you if you fell near the end of the route, but it'd give you a safer way down, at least.
1
In reply to 1234None:
Alternatively, tie onto one end of your rope and the other onto a mat (leave this on dry land). When you complete the route, simply haul up the mat then jump off with it.
Alternatively, tie onto one end of your rope and the other onto a mat (leave this on dry land). When you complete the route, simply haul up the mat then jump off with it.
3
In reply to 1234None:
Another thing to consider is the stillness of the water. If it's still, then you might have to agitate it to break up the surface tension.
As for the depth being enough, haven't got a clue! Best of luck though, as it looks like a good line and I bet someone is scouring maps, etc. to try and find out where it is...
How about re-introducing Beavers into the river and get them to raise the water level for you?
Edit: Just realised that it's a known crag and one not in the UK! Doh!
Another thing to consider is the stillness of the water. If it's still, then you might have to agitate it to break up the surface tension.
As for the depth being enough, haven't got a clue! Best of luck though, as it looks like a good line and I bet someone is scouring maps, etc. to try and find out where it is...
How about re-introducing Beavers into the river and get them to raise the water level for you?
Edit: Just realised that it's a known crag and one not in the UK! Doh!
Post edited at 20:38
In reply to FactorXXX:
That's a bit of an urban myth.
> Another thing to consider is the stillness of the water. If it's still, then you might have to agitate it to break up the surface tension.
That's a bit of an urban myth.
3
In reply to deepsoup:
That's a bit of an urban myth.
Thanks for the correction!
Where would we be without those crazy 'MythBusters' guys!
That's a bit of an urban myth.
Thanks for the correction!
Where would we be without those crazy 'MythBusters' guys!
In reply to Michael Gordon:
Sounds like a "fun" solution, but it'd sort of ruin the spirit of the DWS experience...
> Alternatively, tie onto one end of your rope and the other onto a mat (leave this on dry land). When you complete the route, simply haul up the mat then jump off with it.
Sounds like a "fun" solution, but it'd sort of ruin the spirit of the DWS experience...
1
In reply to FactorXXX:
It's on the Dordogne close to Carsac/Aillac - there is loads of potential in that area, and also in the Gorge du Lot. Several spots already tried and tested in the Lot...with some stunning lines above nice deep water...
> As for the depth being enough, haven't got a clue! Best of luck though, as it looks like a good line and I bet someone is scouring maps, etc. to try and find out where it is...
It's on the Dordogne close to Carsac/Aillac - there is loads of potential in that area, and also in the Gorge du Lot. Several spots already tried and tested in the Lot...with some stunning lines above nice deep water...
In reply to 1234None:
3m of water from 10m isn't really adequate, anything but a perfect entry or a bellyflop you'll hit the bottom quite hard.
I bottomed out in 3m of water this weekend from no more than 2m up, normally no big deal but my kneecap hit a pointy rock when my legs buckled to absorb the impact and protect my feet from the cobbles. Going into that pool from 10m I'd have been getting a helicopter ride.
If you're really keen then work up to it a move or two at a time testing and perfecting the fall/jump but 3m of water leaves no margin for error.
jk
3m of water from 10m isn't really adequate, anything but a perfect entry or a bellyflop you'll hit the bottom quite hard.
I bottomed out in 3m of water this weekend from no more than 2m up, normally no big deal but my kneecap hit a pointy rock when my legs buckled to absorb the impact and protect my feet from the cobbles. Going into that pool from 10m I'd have been getting a helicopter ride.
If you're really keen then work up to it a move or two at a time testing and perfecting the fall/jump but 3m of water leaves no margin for error.
jk
Post edited at 12:34
1
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
F*** me the guy who jumps into that washing machine at 1:20 is dumb! I've fallen into water like that and it's not an experience to repeat. Couldn't watch the rest.
jk
F*** me the guy who jumps into that washing machine at 1:20 is dumb! I've fallen into water like that and it's not an experience to repeat. Couldn't watch the rest.
jk
1
In reply to 1234None:
As others have said, depends very much how you land, here's a video of somebody jumping from 11m into 40cm of water
youtube.com/watch?v=cur0YILfQB8&
Best approach would be to slowly jump from higher and higher up the route and see if you hit the bottom, I think 3m water depth would be do-able if you land correctly. Also have a swim/snorkel around the landing area and check for spiky rocks etc, you said the water is clear but as noted, refraction can easily trick the brain.
Definitely don't do it alone, a couple of mates to help you get out of the water if it does go wrong is essential.
As others have said, depends very much how you land, here's a video of somebody jumping from 11m into 40cm of water
youtube.com/watch?v=cur0YILfQB8&
Best approach would be to slowly jump from higher and higher up the route and see if you hit the bottom, I think 3m water depth would be do-able if you land correctly. Also have a swim/snorkel around the landing area and check for spiky rocks etc, you said the water is clear but as noted, refraction can easily trick the brain.
Definitely don't do it alone, a couple of mates to help you get out of the water if it does go wrong is essential.
1
In reply to Sam W:
I have jumped from a 10m platform and landed in the water flat on my back, without any problems. The trick was wearing a heavy judo jacket, and of course knowing exactly when the impact would come (and of course being used to being smacked on a mat). I would definitely not want to do the same stunt in swimming trunks, or when I am not in full control of the fall, as would be likely if coming off climbing.
I would be tempted by that line if I was sure that there were 3m of water below me, but probably climb it with a long top, ideally a kayak top or something else that does not get soaked.
CB
I have jumped from a 10m platform and landed in the water flat on my back, without any problems. The trick was wearing a heavy judo jacket, and of course knowing exactly when the impact would come (and of course being used to being smacked on a mat). I would definitely not want to do the same stunt in swimming trunks, or when I am not in full control of the fall, as would be likely if coming off climbing.
I would be tempted by that line if I was sure that there were 3m of water below me, but probably climb it with a long top, ideally a kayak top or something else that does not get soaked.
CB
In reply to 1234None:
Having done a bit of high-board diving in the past, I can tell you a couple of things: 1 - landing flat on your back from even 3m stings, let alone 5m, I've not been higher than that. 2 - miss-judging rotation, hitting the water still tucked and kneeing yourself in the mouth on impact gets you a week on a soup diet and a nice scar in your lip
Wearing a rash vest with a nice high neck can help take the sting out of landing on your back - I used to wear a neoprene/lycra one in high-board lessons and was quite glad of it a few times.
Surprised no-one's mentioned wearing a buoyancy aid to stop you going too deep. Apart from being a pain to climb in, it could be a blessing or a curse on the way down. If you do try one, make sure it fits - when I first met my wife, she had cracked and very bruised ribs from coasteering (works team-building thing). They'd all jumped in near the end of the trip and her BA had been a bit big (she's very slim) and the impact had forced the waist band over her ribs, crushing them.
Having done a bit of high-board diving in the past, I can tell you a couple of things: 1 - landing flat on your back from even 3m stings, let alone 5m, I've not been higher than that. 2 - miss-judging rotation, hitting the water still tucked and kneeing yourself in the mouth on impact gets you a week on a soup diet and a nice scar in your lip
Wearing a rash vest with a nice high neck can help take the sting out of landing on your back - I used to wear a neoprene/lycra one in high-board lessons and was quite glad of it a few times.
Surprised no-one's mentioned wearing a buoyancy aid to stop you going too deep. Apart from being a pain to climb in, it could be a blessing or a curse on the way down. If you do try one, make sure it fits - when I first met my wife, she had cracked and very bruised ribs from coasteering (works team-building thing). They'd all jumped in near the end of the trip and her BA had been a bit big (she's very slim) and the impact had forced the waist band over her ribs, crushing them.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
A crotch strap is your friend! I'd do it wearing a wetsuit, that's what all the nippers cliffjumping here do.
> Surprised no-one's mentioned wearing a buoyancy aid to stop you going too deep. Apart from being a pain to climb in, it could be a blessing or a curse on the way down. If you do try one, make sure it fits - when I first met my wife, she had cracked and very bruised ribs from coasteering (works team-building thing). They'd all jumped in near the end of the trip and her BA had been a bit big (she's very slim) and the impact had forced the waist band over her ribs, crushing them.
A crotch strap is your friend! I'd do it wearing a wetsuit, that's what all the nippers cliffjumping here do.
In reply to 1234None:
Sounds like a great project/ FA!
If you can get in the water with some goggles and a mask to check out the depth and be sure then it's worth doing (you might be surprised to find it deeper than you think, or not.....)
If it is 3m deep, and the route is 10m, I reckon it's just about enough, but you definitely don't want to be "pencilling" when you hit the water, instead put your arms out and spread your legs, (maybe even "slap" the water a bit with your arms on entry, might sting a bit but will help) maybe even think about the "armchair" position, although probably not from the top. Have a read of the Rockfax "Deep Water" guide for a bit more info on landing techniques.
Get it done!!!!
Sounds like a great project/ FA!
If you can get in the water with some goggles and a mask to check out the depth and be sure then it's worth doing (you might be surprised to find it deeper than you think, or not.....)
If it is 3m deep, and the route is 10m, I reckon it's just about enough, but you definitely don't want to be "pencilling" when you hit the water, instead put your arms out and spread your legs, (maybe even "slap" the water a bit with your arms on entry, might sting a bit but will help) maybe even think about the "armchair" position, although probably not from the top. Have a read of the Rockfax "Deep Water" guide for a bit more info on landing techniques.
Get it done!!!!
3
In reply to Gus:
Thanks! I'll be back there sometime this week so will try to grow a pair and commit to the top...we've had some rain so there may even be a little more water now
Thanks! I'll be back there sometime this week so will try to grow a pair and commit to the top...we've had some rain so there may even be a little more water now
Post edited at 06:57
1
In reply to 1234None:
It's never stopped u before? Getting old?
> I wasn't going to give it grade...I'd just like to climb it without breaking my legs if I fall.
It's never stopped u before? Getting old?
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