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May and Corbyn have suddenly been quite robust about it, despite it appearing to be common knowledge for years. Why has it taken them until now to suddenly consider it important to deal with? It’s been happening on their watch and the evidence seems to suggest they knew about it.
These people are supposed to be leading us...
These people are supposed to be leading us...
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Porking your secretary or trysts with rent boys is to be expected. Asking your staff to buy sex toys, falls short of the high standards we expect form our elected representatives.
Porking your secretary or trysts with rent boys is to be expected. Asking your staff to buy sex toys, falls short of the high standards we expect form our elected representatives.
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In reply to dread-i:
Yes you are quite right.
Standards have fallen. We used to have so many inspired deviants in Westminster and their antics kept the News of The World in business for years.
Back in the day our MPs had style in their actions.
Never did Alan B'stard any harm.
> Porking your secretary or trysts with rent boys is to be expected. Asking your staff to buy sex toys, falls short of the high standards we expect form our elected representatives.
Yes you are quite right.
Standards have fallen. We used to have so many inspired deviants in Westminster and their antics kept the News of The World in business for years.
Back in the day our MPs had style in their actions.
Never did Alan B'stard any harm.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
I don't see the un-redacted spreadsheet with the names and where their hands wandered to staying off the internet much longer. When that happens all hell will break loose.
If there's any Brexiteer Ministers on the groper list and they need to be fired it'll be another step to the whole thing falling apart. Same if a few MPs need to quit and there's by-elections. Same if there's a massive enquiry that provides continual distraction for months. All in all, what with Trump's pals getting indicted as well it's been a good day.
I don't see the un-redacted spreadsheet with the names and where their hands wandered to staying off the internet much longer. When that happens all hell will break loose.
If there's any Brexiteer Ministers on the groper list and they need to be fired it'll be another step to the whole thing falling apart. Same if a few MPs need to quit and there's by-elections. Same if there's a massive enquiry that provides continual distraction for months. All in all, what with Trump's pals getting indicted as well it's been a good day.
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In reply to captain paranoia:
Listed as 'Thai Sandwich'
> Yeah; you'd expect them to put them on expenses...
Listed as 'Thai Sandwich'
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In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
You think the government are advanced enough to use a spreadsheet...? Quill and vellum, maybe...
I always had my suspicions; all those whips...
> I don't see the un-redacted spreadsheet with the names
You think the government are advanced enough to use a spreadsheet...? Quill and vellum, maybe...
I always had my suspicions; all those whips...
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Same with the expenses scandal.....they are decades behind the rest of the public services when it comes to standards.
Same with the expenses scandal.....they are decades behind the rest of the public services when it comes to standards.
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In reply to captain paranoia:
https://order-order.com/2017/10/29/tory-aides-spreadsheet-names-36-sex-pest...
Could be right about the quill though. Somebody has dropped big black ink blots over all the names.
> You think the government are advanced enough to use a spreadsheet...? Quill and vellum, maybe...
https://order-order.com/2017/10/29/tory-aides-spreadsheet-names-36-sex-pest...
Could be right about the quill though. Somebody has dropped big black ink blots over all the names.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
It's a trendy topic, get with the memes! Cornbyn and May are getting down with the Buzzfeed generation.
> Why has it taken them until now to suddenly consider it important to deal with?
It's a trendy topic, get with the memes! Cornbyn and May are getting down with the Buzzfeed generation.
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In reply to Big Ger:
Nonsense, it's because they both know it will damage trust in their party. Meanwhile the defence secretary defends his actions; trade secretary arranges odd transactions and employment secretary employs unusual recruitment methods:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/30/leadsom-pledges-support-te...
As ever in political scandals, everything possible will be done, unless it won't:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/30/sex-pest-discussion-finds-mps...
Nonsense, it's because they both know it will damage trust in their party. Meanwhile the defence secretary defends his actions; trade secretary arranges odd transactions and employment secretary employs unusual recruitment methods:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/30/leadsom-pledges-support-te...
As ever in political scandals, everything possible will be done, unless it won't:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/30/sex-pest-discussion-finds-mps...
Post edited at 08:17
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In reply to Offwidth:
Hells bells!
Anyone would think we weren't facing awkward immigration questions, refugee crisis, concerns of Islamic extremism, plundering of natural resources, ongoing reverberations of a poorly conceived war against terror, decreased economic importance against an ascendent third world, Brexit unknowns, a hitherto never experienced housing crisis, pensions crisis, NHS crisis, global warming inaction, lack of future opportunity for the hundreds of thousands of debt-laden we graduate from universities each year.....
....and instead, should be dedicating our thought processes to who might have touched someone's knee during a dinner decades ago.
Can't help but feel we're been asked to re-arrange deck-chairs and pay less attention to the commotion at the bow.
Hells bells!
Anyone would think we weren't facing awkward immigration questions, refugee crisis, concerns of Islamic extremism, plundering of natural resources, ongoing reverberations of a poorly conceived war against terror, decreased economic importance against an ascendent third world, Brexit unknowns, a hitherto never experienced housing crisis, pensions crisis, NHS crisis, global warming inaction, lack of future opportunity for the hundreds of thousands of debt-laden we graduate from universities each year.....
....and instead, should be dedicating our thought processes to who might have touched someone's knee during a dinner decades ago.
Can't help but feel we're been asked to re-arrange deck-chairs and pay less attention to the commotion at the bow.
Post edited at 09:02
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In reply to felt:
Possibly both.
Or maybe a middle ground; as a society we seem to be getting inflamed by actions that probably shouldn't really be considered so important, that simply wouldn't register if we had a real perspective of the existential risks we are facing, and are likely to be driven more by a desire for news creation and political opportunism than reflecting the political abilities or morality of the individuals in question.
Possibly both.
Or maybe a middle ground; as a society we seem to be getting inflamed by actions that probably shouldn't really be considered so important, that simply wouldn't register if we had a real perspective of the existential risks we are facing, and are likely to be driven more by a desire for news creation and political opportunism than reflecting the political abilities or morality of the individuals in question.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
it's a distraction from the information war
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/24/world/europe/britain-russia-facebook-bre...
perhaps even part of the information war.
We breathed a big sigh of relief with the end of the Warsaw Pact and Soviet bloc but that was only end of a round in the ongoing struggle for influence, power and control
it's a distraction from the information war
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/24/world/europe/britain-russia-facebook-bre...
perhaps even part of the information war.
We breathed a big sigh of relief with the end of the Warsaw Pact and Soviet bloc but that was only end of a round in the ongoing struggle for influence, power and control
Post edited at 09:19
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In reply to David Martin:
If this stops at knee touching, sex toy shopping and inappropriate sexting I'll maybe agree with you. You might consider the likely more serious revelations to come could cause resignations that will damage and possibly, if especially serious, even bring down this government (based only on a tiny minority). One political reason for the snap election was nervousness around growing scandals about election spending in the previous election. Scandals have damaged and destroyed governments in the past despite a need to deal with just as serious political issues.
If this stops at knee touching, sex toy shopping and inappropriate sexting I'll maybe agree with you. You might consider the likely more serious revelations to come could cause resignations that will damage and possibly, if especially serious, even bring down this government (based only on a tiny minority). One political reason for the snap election was nervousness around growing scandals about election spending in the previous election. Scandals have damaged and destroyed governments in the past despite a need to deal with just as serious political issues.
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In reply to David Martin:
Can your thought processes really only deal with one concern at a time?
Perhaps, considering that all you list in your first paragraph is important, the 32% of our MPs who are female would be best served by not having to worry about whether they're in a meeting with someone who's "grabsy", or do we need to have lower expectations of our representatives than pretty much all of us would have of colleagues in our own work place?
> Hells bells!
> Anyone would think we weren't facing awkward immigration questions, refugee crisis, concerns of Islamic extremism, plundering of natural resources, ongoing reverberations of a poorly conceived war against terror, decreased economic importance against an ascendent third world, Brexit unknowns, a hitherto never experienced housing crisis, pensions crisis, NHS crisis, global warming inaction, lack of future opportunity for the hundreds of thousands of debt-laden we graduate from universities each year.....
> ....and instead, should be dedicating our thought processes to who might have touched someone's knee during a dinner decades ago.
Can your thought processes really only deal with one concern at a time?
Perhaps, considering that all you list in your first paragraph is important, the 32% of our MPs who are female would be best served by not having to worry about whether they're in a meeting with someone who's "grabsy", or do we need to have lower expectations of our representatives than pretty much all of us would have of colleagues in our own work place?
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In reply to David Martin:
I'm thinking it could just be as simple as something appearing in the media in the form of Weinstein's actions, acting as a prompt to make people in Westminster consider what's going on there too?
No conspiracy or current trend, nothing as complicated or superficial as that...
I'm thinking it could just be as simple as something appearing in the media in the form of Weinstein's actions, acting as a prompt to make people in Westminster consider what's going on there too?
No conspiracy or current trend, nothing as complicated or superficial as that...
Post edited at 13:15
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In reply to fred99:
Which political establishment is known for it's 'boy's club' culture? Westminster.
In what kind of place would it seem sensible to make sure women aren't being harassed? Somewhere with a 'boy's club' culture.
Hope to help.
> Who says the 32% female are any better.
Which political establishment is known for it's 'boy's club' culture? Westminster.
In what kind of place would it seem sensible to make sure women aren't being harassed? Somewhere with a 'boy's club' culture.
Hope to help.
Post edited at 13:04
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In reply to fred99:
Every tangible piece of evidence on the subject.
> Who says the 32% female are any better.
Every tangible piece of evidence on the subject.
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In reply to wercat:
Are Russian RT not allowed to give their perspective from the point of view of theirs?
Are we only supposed to get news from America and British who say same thing?
Should American and British not get alternative news in English from anywhere than America,England and Nato country?
> We breathed a big sigh of relief with the end of the Warsaw Pact and Soviet bloc but that was only end of a round in the ongoing struggle for influence, power and control
Are Russian RT not allowed to give their perspective from the point of view of theirs?
Are we only supposed to get news from America and British who say same thing?
Should American and British not get alternative news in English from anywhere than America,England and Nato country?
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Women getting pressure to do sex from superiours in UK Parliament these people supposed to be elected to represent you.If you are sex pest then you are happy with them if not kick them out.
Women getting pressure to do sex from superiours in UK Parliament these people supposed to be elected to represent you.If you are sex pest then you are happy with them if not kick them out.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Westminster is so obsessed by its history and the lazy assumption it is the best in the world it is getting increasingly unfit for purpose. The whole UK system needs torn apart and brought up to date, this is just another symptom.
What do they think is going to happen when the building is full of pubs and they regularly work late at night? Maybe they could get by with no alcohol in the building and more regular working hours. Possibly encourage the use of video conferencing so MPs can live in their constituencies.
Westminster is so obsessed by its history and the lazy assumption it is the best in the world it is getting increasingly unfit for purpose. The whole UK system needs torn apart and brought up to date, this is just another symptom.
What do they think is going to happen when the building is full of pubs and they regularly work late at night? Maybe they could get by with no alcohol in the building and more regular working hours. Possibly encourage the use of video conferencing so MPs can live in their constituencies.
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In reply to Tanke:
RT is absolutely entitled to report in the way it chooses as it is an identified source. "Information troops", however, do not identify themselves willingly to their targets and disseminate subversive material and disinformation attributing it to other, preferably "trustworthy " to the less informed, sources. We have a long way to catch up.
I do watch RT from time to time.
I'm not condemning Russia, simply saying that we are not aware of the new rules on our side yet. We simply are not looking at who will benefit from current trends and are being given cyber kittens to worry about instead
:-]
RT is absolutely entitled to report in the way it chooses as it is an identified source. "Information troops", however, do not identify themselves willingly to their targets and disseminate subversive material and disinformation attributing it to other, preferably "trustworthy " to the less informed, sources. We have a long way to catch up.
I do watch RT from time to time.
I'm not condemning Russia, simply saying that we are not aware of the new rules on our side yet. We simply are not looking at who will benefit from current trends and are being given cyber kittens to worry about instead
:-]
Post edited at 17:25
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
I'm not saying that these things are not important and to be brushed aside. I'm saying that perhaps there are more important matters in the world that should have a higher priority in News headlines. Considering we have Trump, Brexit, Syria, tension in Eastern Europe and the latest environmental stories about insect decline and CO2 levels I am aghast at the BBC's editorial priorities.
I'm not saying that these things are not important and to be brushed aside. I'm saying that perhaps there are more important matters in the world that should have a higher priority in News headlines. Considering we have Trump, Brexit, Syria, tension in Eastern Europe and the latest environmental stories about insect decline and CO2 levels I am aghast at the BBC's editorial priorities.
In reply to wercat:
It is important to have RT and other perspectives on world affairs as without then you get just one and easily manipulated population from this.Rt gives other side of story which US and EU countries don't want from Syrian government and Russian side as well as many other important matters RT is unmissable to many and British and American ruling class want shut it down just for showing other side views which is totalitarian of American and British.
Information war is get so busy that you see obvious fake news all a time on internet this is not new to see disinformation from countries to fool other countries and own people and no one country more guilt than other I comment.
It is important to have RT and other perspectives on world affairs as without then you get just one and easily manipulated population from this.Rt gives other side of story which US and EU countries don't want from Syrian government and Russian side as well as many other important matters RT is unmissable to many and British and American ruling class want shut it down just for showing other side views which is totalitarian of American and British.
Information war is get so busy that you see obvious fake news all a time on internet this is not new to see disinformation from countries to fool other countries and own people and no one country more guilt than other I comment.
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In reply to Tanke:
RT seem to have a wider range of world news stories than the BBC. But, as with all media sources, it's advisable to remember what the source is (including the bias of individual reporters in the BBC), and consider if there's an underlying slant to the stories; there almost always is; for instance:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=673579&v=1
It might be argued that Russia is just a teensy bit totalitarian at the moment...
> British and American ruling class want shut it down just for showing other side views which is totalitarian of American and British
RT seem to have a wider range of world news stories than the BBC. But, as with all media sources, it's advisable to remember what the source is (including the bias of individual reporters in the BBC), and consider if there's an underlying slant to the stories; there almost always is; for instance:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=673579&v=1
It might be argued that Russia is just a teensy bit totalitarian at the moment...
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In reply to captain paranoia:
Putin allow 20% of Russian Federation media to be owned forgiegn but it is American and british ruling class want to shut down RT completely in British and America so who is totalitarian?
> It might be argued that Russia is just a teensy bit totalitarian at the moment...
Putin allow 20% of Russian Federation media to be owned forgiegn but it is American and british ruling class want to shut down RT completely in British and America so who is totalitarian?
Post edited at 19:20
In reply to Tanke:
Can I ask where you are from as you English doesn't read like native speaker. Based on the assumption you're not British, I guess you don't get why your name is funny for someone supporting RT!
Can I ask where you are from as you English doesn't read like native speaker. Based on the assumption you're not British, I guess you don't get why your name is funny for someone supporting RT!
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In reply to TobyA:
No I don't know why name is funny to you it is call name from younger I am not British but from central Europe I RT is popular from Germany to Serbia but I understand British want this news to be banned in UK.
No I don't know why name is funny to you it is call name from younger I am not British but from central Europe I RT is popular from Germany to Serbia but I understand British want this news to be banned in UK.
In reply to Tanke:
A quick Google for "RT ban UK" finds no obvious evidence. Do you have any references?
'The ruling class'...?
> I understand British want this news to be banned in UK.
A quick Google for "RT ban UK" finds no obvious evidence. Do you have any references?
'The ruling class'...?
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In reply to Tanke:
Tankie was the nickname given people in the Stalinist wing of British communism. The Tankies went against the Euro-communist faction, and supported the Soviet suppression of the Hungarian and Czech popular uprisings. They supported the sending in of the tanks, hence "Tankie".
Considering RT's reporting of Russia's seizure of Crimea and intervention in Eastern Ukraine, I guess it's the modern version of Pravda?
Tankie was the nickname given people in the Stalinist wing of British communism. The Tankies went against the Euro-communist faction, and supported the Soviet suppression of the Hungarian and Czech popular uprisings. They supported the sending in of the tanks, hence "Tankie".
Considering RT's reporting of Russia's seizure of Crimea and intervention in Eastern Ukraine, I guess it's the modern version of Pravda?
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In reply to TobyA:
but were they Stalinists, Leninists or Trotskyists ? All seems so long ago but brings back memories of interminable arguments in student bars way back when.
edit to add - you answered while I was typing
but were they Stalinists, Leninists or Trotskyists ? All seems so long ago but brings back memories of interminable arguments in student bars way back when.
edit to add - you answered while I was typing
Post edited at 19:48
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In reply to Tanke:
Do they? I don't recall hearing anyone calling for that.
State sponsored Russian propaganda via Twitter etc is a rather different matter, and a justified concern.
> Putin allow 20% of Russian Federation media to be owned forgiegn but it is American and british ruling class want to shut down RT completely in British and America so who is totalitarian?
Do they? I don't recall hearing anyone calling for that.
State sponsored Russian propaganda via Twitter etc is a rather different matter, and a justified concern.
In reply to Tanke:
I don't recall many journalists being bumped off, having mysterious car crashes, 'accidentally brutally cutting their own head off whilst shaving', or publishers simply disappearing, in the UK*.
Oh, except those drinking exotic cups of tea...
> but I understand British want this news to be banned in UK.
I don't recall many journalists being bumped off, having mysterious car crashes, 'accidentally brutally cutting their own head off whilst shaving', or publishers simply disappearing, in the UK*.
Oh, except those drinking exotic cups of tea...
Post edited at 20:48
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In reply to captain paranoia:
Maybe not journalists but do you remember the deaths of David Kelly & Hilda Murrell ?
Maybe not journalists but do you remember the deaths of David Kelly & Hilda Murrell ?
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In reply to David Martin:
Bex Bailey was raped.
> ....and instead, should be dedicating our thought processes to who might have touched someone's knee during a dinner decades ago.
Bex Bailey was raped.
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In reply to Tanke:
Long Long ago I discoveres the hidden crackling fading world of Short wave, used to listen to broadcasts from the Eastern Boloc at school, fascinating yes I agree with need not to censor identified sources. It's the disinformation I'm referring to.
> It is important to have RT and other perspectives on world affairs as without then you get just one and easily manipulated population from this.Rt gives other side of story which US and EU countries don't want from Syrian government and Russian side as well as many other important matters RT is unmissable to many and British and American ruling class want shut it down just for showing other side views which is totalitarian of American and British.
Long Long ago I discoveres the hidden crackling fading world of Short wave, used to listen to broadcasts from the Eastern Boloc at school, fascinating yes I agree with need not to censor identified sources. It's the disinformation I'm referring to.
In reply to The New NickB:
When it comes to relative numbers convicted of sex offences against children, it's 55% male offenders, 45% female.
I see no logical reason to assume that the relative mix for other sex offences to be different.
On top of this the main reason for persons forcing themselves on others is power.
Female MP's acquire power in just the same way as male, and it would be crass to assume that they wouldn't abuse their power in roughly similar ways and ratios to their male counterparts.
> Every tangible piece of evidence on the subject.
When it comes to relative numbers convicted of sex offences against children, it's 55% male offenders, 45% female.
I see no logical reason to assume that the relative mix for other sex offences to be different.
On top of this the main reason for persons forcing themselves on others is power.
Female MP's acquire power in just the same way as male, and it would be crass to assume that they wouldn't abuse their power in roughly similar ways and ratios to their male counterparts.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
People seem to have forgotten the Nigel Evans trial three years ago, although he was cleared ( most of the witnesses said , yeah he came on but I wasn't bothered) it led to an insight into the lurid world of orgies and staffers being propositioned in the Tory party.
In fact it led to Cameron having to issue an edict to his MPs asking them to kindly refrain from sexually assaulting the Staff.
People seem to have forgotten the Nigel Evans trial three years ago, although he was cleared ( most of the witnesses said , yeah he came on but I wasn't bothered) it led to an insight into the lurid world of orgies and staffers being propositioned in the Tory party.
In fact it led to Cameron having to issue an edict to his MPs asking them to kindly refrain from sexually assaulting the Staff.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
I'm not sure about the claim for a need for an unbiased way of reporting these crimes. Isn't that calling the police?
I'm not sure about the claim for a need for an unbiased way of reporting these crimes. Isn't that calling the police?
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Just found an almost unredacted version online with the names. They should fire the whips for incompetence just for writing this stuff down in a spreadsheet.
It's amazing what the Tories actually think of their own senior ministers:
"Odd sexual penchants and sexual with fellow MP - a drunk"
"Perpetually intoxicated"
"Video exists of three males urinating on him"
Wouldn't be surprised if there were reshuffles and some of the big name Brexiters got sidelined.
Just found an almost unredacted version online with the names. They should fire the whips for incompetence just for writing this stuff down in a spreadsheet.
It's amazing what the Tories actually think of their own senior ministers:
"Odd sexual penchants and sexual with fellow MP - a drunk"
"Perpetually intoxicated"
"Video exists of three males urinating on him"
Wouldn't be surprised if there were reshuffles and some of the big name Brexiters got sidelined.
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In reply to Doug:
Yes, I do, and I did when I posted.
It was disgraceful he was hounded to his death, but I don't believe the conspiracy theories that he was bumped off the the secret services.
> do you remember the deaths of David Kelly
Yes, I do, and I did when I posted.
It was disgraceful he was hounded to his death, but I don't believe the conspiracy theories that he was bumped off the the secret services.
In reply to fred99:
Well if they're not then they're significantly underrepresented on 'the list' for some other reason. Possible of course depending who compiled and leaked the list but not the most probable answer as to why that might be.
jk
> Who says the 32% female are any better.
Well if they're not then they're significantly underrepresented on 'the list' for some other reason. Possible of course depending who compiled and leaked the list but not the most probable answer as to why that might be.
jk
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In reply to jkarran:
Males could well be more embarrassed to complain.
After all, they are supposed to be "men" aren't they - the supposedly stronger sex.
> Well if they're not then they're significantly underrepresented on 'the list' for some other reason.
Males could well be more embarrassed to complain.
After all, they are supposed to be "men" aren't they - the supposedly stronger sex.
In reply to captain paranoia:
UK ruling class prefer to attack other countrys that are do them no harm and kill everyone there include journalist publisher and everyone left oppose them.
UK and doing it for Americans as is the always and attack all countrys that they want and kill leaders using any ways to defy UN security council and laws of sovergienty. So when they want do this is Russia,Syria,Iran or DPRK like did in Iraq,Syria,Libya and the etc then leaders must watch for US and UK infilkrtor that are 5 column and want help US in attacking their country.
US and UK on watch to do this to country perpetual so country must guard.
Toby I would say the BBC and CNN more like Pravda than RT as BBC is full of lies about Russia and friends like CNN which is not the CIA mouth?
Thank you for data on 'Tankie'this new to me, is famous unusual British humour.
Captain paranoi ruling class is the people who own all power in a society/nation they make large decisions like go and attack countrys and implements of are intelligence services and moneymen old term class of the capital is more better.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/17/russia-todays-uk-bank-account...
https://www.rt.com/news/407910-twitter-rt-ban-media-attack/
The war on RT an Sputnik are part of economy war against Russia Federation by Wasington and London they also funded report catalogue all journalists that have and work on RT or have been guest this is to intimidate these journalists so scare them from work with RT.
https://www.rt.com/news/407347-rt-guests-list-ngo/
> I don't recall many journalists being bumped off, having mysterious car crashes, 'accidentally brutally cutting their own head off whilst shaving', or publishers simply disappearing, in the UK*.
UK ruling class prefer to attack other countrys that are do them no harm and kill everyone there include journalist publisher and everyone left oppose them.
UK and doing it for Americans as is the always and attack all countrys that they want and kill leaders using any ways to defy UN security council and laws of sovergienty. So when they want do this is Russia,Syria,Iran or DPRK like did in Iraq,Syria,Libya and the etc then leaders must watch for US and UK infilkrtor that are 5 column and want help US in attacking their country.
US and UK on watch to do this to country perpetual so country must guard.
Toby I would say the BBC and CNN more like Pravda than RT as BBC is full of lies about Russia and friends like CNN which is not the CIA mouth?
Thank you for data on 'Tankie'this new to me, is famous unusual British humour.
Captain paranoi ruling class is the people who own all power in a society/nation they make large decisions like go and attack countrys and implements of are intelligence services and moneymen old term class of the capital is more better.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/17/russia-todays-uk-bank-account...
https://www.rt.com/news/407910-twitter-rt-ban-media-attack/
The war on RT an Sputnik are part of economy war against Russia Federation by Wasington and London they also funded report catalogue all journalists that have and work on RT or have been guest this is to intimidate these journalists so scare them from work with RT.
https://www.rt.com/news/407347-rt-guests-list-ngo/
Post edited at 14:15
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In reply to fred99:
Maybe but it's not a list of complaints.
jk
> Males could well be more embarrassed to complain.
> After all, they are supposed to be "men" aren't they - the supposedly stronger sex.
> After all, they are supposed to be "men" aren't they - the supposedly stronger sex.
Maybe but it's not a list of complaints.
jk
In reply to fred99:
Could you provide a source for that statistic.
> When it comes to relative numbers convicted of sex offences against children, it's 55% male offenders, 45% female.
Could you provide a source for that statistic.
In reply to Tanke:
Gosh! A blast from the past, RT are still using Mark Almond (no, not that one, everyone else...) to help break the bonds of the Yankee imperialist hegemony? I see he has graduated from running his own "human rights" NGO to having his own research institute at Oxford (no, not that one, everyone else) - but seriously they need to sort out their font choice if they don't want to make quite so clear that this is actually a one-man conspiracy-flogging hobby horse (and I presume the hobby horse's stable is actually in Oxford city), and not a research centre at Oxford Uni. It's all just so... Trolly (if I can invent a adjective), but RT is as RT does.
Gosh! A blast from the past, RT are still using Mark Almond (no, not that one, everyone else...) to help break the bonds of the Yankee imperialist hegemony? I see he has graduated from running his own "human rights" NGO to having his own research institute at Oxford (no, not that one, everyone else) - but seriously they need to sort out their font choice if they don't want to make quite so clear that this is actually a one-man conspiracy-flogging hobby horse (and I presume the hobby horse's stable is actually in Oxford city), and not a research centre at Oxford Uni. It's all just so... Trolly (if I can invent a adjective), but RT is as RT does.
Post edited at 18:19
3
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
It looks like a lot of bullshit to me.
Alun Cairns - Welsh secretary. Likely to have intercourse with men wearing women's perfume! Really??
It looks like a lot of bullshit to me.
Alun Cairns - Welsh secretary. Likely to have intercourse with men wearing women's perfume! Really??
1
In reply to Gone for good:
Sounds like exactly the sort of thing Tory MPs get up to to me.
This is the most shocking thing I've seen so far:
youtube.com/watch?v=GwkOWPauu_A&
Tory whip from the 70s explaining how if MPs had a scandal involving 'small boys' they would come to the whips office who would fix it for them in exchange for 'brownie points' meaning the MP would vote exactly as they were told after that. This spreadsheet makes it look like the whips are still keeping a list of stuff to use against MPs that might rebel. Why else would they do something as dangerous as keep a list like this?
> It looks like a lot of bullshit to me.
Sounds like exactly the sort of thing Tory MPs get up to to me.
This is the most shocking thing I've seen so far:
youtube.com/watch?v=GwkOWPauu_A&
Tory whip from the 70s explaining how if MPs had a scandal involving 'small boys' they would come to the whips office who would fix it for them in exchange for 'brownie points' meaning the MP would vote exactly as they were told after that. This spreadsheet makes it look like the whips are still keeping a list of stuff to use against MPs that might rebel. Why else would they do something as dangerous as keep a list like this?
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
You seem to want to believe. I'm sure it all fits in neatly into your anti British narrative.
I notice this is listed on YouTube alongside the various allegations against Ted Heath and Cliff Richard none of which has been proven and in the case of Cliff has been proven to be manifestly false.
You seem to want to believe. I'm sure it all fits in neatly into your anti British narrative.
I notice this is listed on YouTube alongside the various allegations against Ted Heath and Cliff Richard none of which has been proven and in the case of Cliff has been proven to be manifestly false.
2
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In reply to Gone for good:
That's to do with the algorithm though, it's not an editorial decision. This a Tory Whip explaining how his job worked back in the 70s. It doesn't sound particularly surprising.
> I notice this is listed on YouTube alongside the various allegations against Ted Heath and Cliff Richard none of which has been proven
That's to do with the algorithm though, it's not an editorial decision. This a Tory Whip explaining how his job worked back in the 70s. It doesn't sound particularly surprising.
In reply to Gone for good:
It is an interview with a former Tory whip on a BBC documentary. The videos YouTube puts next to it are irrelevant.
> I notice this is listed on YouTube alongside the various allegations against Ted Heath and Cliff Richard none of which has been proven and in the case of Cliff has been proven to be manifestly false.
It is an interview with a former Tory whip on a BBC documentary. The videos YouTube puts next to it are irrelevant.
1
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
Ok. So do you believe Alun Jones is rodgering every male he comes across that smells faintly of Chanel number 5?
> It is an interview with a former Tory whip on a BBC documentary. The videos YouTube puts next to it are irrelevant.
Ok. So do you believe Alun Jones is rodgering every male he comes across that smells faintly of Chanel number 5?
4
1
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Miss Hartley-Brewer's admirable response to Cabinet Minister who repeatedly put his hand on her knee during a party conference dinner:
"I calmly and politely explained to him that if he did it again I would 'punch him in the face'.
"He withdrew his hand and that was the end of the matter.
Miss Hartley-Brewer's admirable response to Cabinet Minister who repeatedly put his hand on her knee during a party conference dinner:
"I calmly and politely explained to him that if he did it again I would 'punch him in the face'.
"He withdrew his hand and that was the end of the matter.
> Fallon's gone
Post edited at 19:54
3
In reply to The New NickB:
Why even ask as its so clearly bs? Some actual data is here: men were around 99% of total convictioms in 2011.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/an-overview-of-sexual-offending-in...
Why even ask as its so clearly bs? Some actual data is here: men were around 99% of total convictioms in 2011.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/an-overview-of-sexual-offending-in...
1
In reply to Tanke:
You know, I was going to add a caution to my last reply, asking for references. I was going to suggest that you didn't make references to RT as evidence of nasty things being said and done about RT...
You know, I was going to add a caution to my last reply, asking for references. I was going to suggest that you didn't make references to RT as evidence of nasty things being said and done about RT...
In reply to elsewhere:
Surely this must be fake news as the talk of potential real consequencies were said to be just media hype :O
Or...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2017/nov/01/westminster-sex...
Surely this must be fake news as the talk of potential real consequencies were said to be just media hype :O
Or...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2017/nov/01/westminster-sex...
3
In reply to Gone for good:
Glass half full, I was hoping for Boris or Liam. But give it time.
He's come out as gay. So he's turned on by his partner wearing perfume. TBH I think it says more about world view of the Tory whips that they think this is even worth putting on the list.
> That will cheer up tom in edinburgh.
Glass half full, I was hoping for Boris or Liam. But give it time.
> Ok. So do you believe Alun Jones is rodgering every male he comes across that smells faintly of Chanel number 5?
He's come out as gay. So he's turned on by his partner wearing perfume. TBH I think it says more about world view of the Tory whips that they think this is even worth putting on the list.
5
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
Console yourself with the fact that Amber Rudd's on there.
The whole thing just gets weirder and weirder.
Meanwhile up in Scotland.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41828554
> Glass half full, I was hoping for Boris or Liam. But give it time.
Console yourself with the fact that Amber Rudd's on there.
> He's come out as gay. So he's turned on by his partner wearing perfume. TBH I think it says more about world view of the Tory whips that they think this is even worth putting on the list.
The whole thing just gets weirder and weirder.
Meanwhile up in Scotland.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41828554
1
1
In reply to Gone for good:
Meanwhile up in Scotland.
Has Sturgeon admitted to dressing as a school boy complete with shorts, cap and cheeky grin?
Meanwhile up in Scotland.
Has Sturgeon admitted to dressing as a school boy complete with shorts, cap and cheeky grin?
4
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In reply to Gone for good:
It might fall short of Farage, Gove, Johnson and Fox losing their heads in the tower but it's certainly made my day.
> That will cheer up tom in edinburgh.
It might fall short of Farage, Gove, Johnson and Fox losing their heads in the tower but it's certainly made my day.
4
1
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In reply to balmybaldwin:
Well, BoJo has form as a philanderer.
[edit] To my disliker: sorry, I meant serial philanderer.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/he-s-fa...
I mention it because I suspect there's likely to be a link between serial infidelity, and a sense of sexual entitlement.
We may, or may not see.
Well, BoJo has form as a philanderer.
[edit] To my disliker: sorry, I meant serial philanderer.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/he-s-fa...
I mention it because I suspect there's likely to be a link between serial infidelity, and a sense of sexual entitlement.
We may, or may not see.
Post edited at 22:57
2
1
In reply to captain paranoia:
Is that a resigning matter too now? This is getting absurd. I hope there is more to Fallon than touching the knee of someone who has said the matter is closed 15 years ago.
> Well, BoJo has form as a philanderer.
Is that a resigning matter too now? This is getting absurd. I hope there is more to Fallon than touching the knee of someone who has said the matter is closed 15 years ago.
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
has it struck anyone else that every single poster other than me on this thread about sexual harassment is male? That strikes me as possibly quite relevant, specially since a significant amount (not all) of the posters apparently dont see what the fuss is about
has it struck anyone else that every single poster other than me on this thread about sexual harassment is male? That strikes me as possibly quite relevant, specially since a significant amount (not all) of the posters apparently dont see what the fuss is about
9
In reply to pebbles:
Totally agree. The article linked to by Offwidth at 20.05 yesterday should be food for thought for everyone.
Totally agree. The article linked to by Offwidth at 20.05 yesterday should be food for thought for everyone.
3
In reply to pebbles:
to make it clear, I'm not saying there should not be any fuss, just that the headline writers are choosing rather local stories to shout about while we have rather important regional and world issues not receiving the attention they deserve.
to make it clear, I'm not saying there should not be any fuss, just that the headline writers are choosing rather local stories to shout about while we have rather important regional and world issues not receiving the attention they deserve.
In reply to wercat:
because of course women being groped and assaulted in Westminster by our elected representatives isnt "rather important" at all , is it?
because of course women being groped and assaulted in Westminster by our elected representatives isnt "rather important" at all , is it?
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In reply to pebbles:
If you go by the spreadsheet there were a lot of males getting groped as well. The female victims are speaking out and I guess from a libel standpoint that makes the press less nervous. It's not all heterosexual males getting accused, there's gay/bi males and females too.
> because of course women being groped and assaulted in Westminster by our elected representatives isnt "rather important" at all , is it?
If you go by the spreadsheet there were a lot of males getting groped as well. The female victims are speaking out and I guess from a libel standpoint that makes the press less nervous. It's not all heterosexual males getting accused, there's gay/bi males and females too.
In reply to pebbles:
Not sure what you expected on a male dominated forum/sport.
Perhaps you aren't seeing the wood for the trees.
Real men don't find this remotely acceptable
> has it struck anyone else that every single poster other than me on this thread about sexual harassment is male? That strikes me as possibly quite relevant, specially since a significant amount (not all) of the posters apparently dont see what the fuss is about
Not sure what you expected on a male dominated forum/sport.
Perhaps you aren't seeing the wood for the trees.
Real men don't find this remotely acceptable
5
In reply to pebbles:
that is not really a fair comment. Actually I think there is a real issue of People being exploited and interfered with by more pwerful People. There is a horrible media idea of grouping all males together and ignoring what happens to young people generally at the hands of more experienced colleagues and managers. Psychological abuse covers a lot more than improper advances and is pretty harmful.
And your comment appears to be a kneejerk reaction to something I was careful NOT to say
that is not really a fair comment. Actually I think there is a real issue of People being exploited and interfered with by more pwerful People. There is a horrible media idea of grouping all males together and ignoring what happens to young people generally at the hands of more experienced colleagues and managers. Psychological abuse covers a lot more than improper advances and is pretty harmful.
And your comment appears to be a kneejerk reaction to something I was careful NOT to say
1
In reply to balmybaldwin:
your last comment is exactly what I would be hoping most men would feel. I think you underestimate the amount of women taking part in climbing, or for that matter using UKC, but thats not the main point of this thread. I am quite startled by the amount of people who appear to be more concerned about michael falloons resignation than that a woman was raped during the course of her professional career at Westmister and advised not to pursue the matter in case it damaged her career.
your last comment is exactly what I would be hoping most men would feel. I think you underestimate the amount of women taking part in climbing, or for that matter using UKC, but thats not the main point of this thread. I am quite startled by the amount of people who appear to be more concerned about michael falloons resignation than that a woman was raped during the course of her professional career at Westmister and advised not to pursue the matter in case it damaged her career.
1
In reply to pebbles:
I agree that Climbing numbers wise is getting much better in terms of female participation, just that doesn't seem to translate to the UKC Forum for whatever reason.
I agree that Climbing numbers wise is getting much better in terms of female participation, just that doesn't seem to translate to the UKC Forum for whatever reason.
In reply to wercat:
I agree but my impression from the experience of non-political friends who have interacted with Westminster in various ways over the years is of a working environment that hasn't moved on from the 1970s. It isn't just the abuse of power, the level of sexual banter I've heard about is like something from Life on Mars.
Only about 10 years ago, the opening gambit from a senior and well-known politician on being introduced to a very senior female academic friend of mine was along the lines of 'hello, have we slept together yet?'
On the other hand, the current reaction reminds me a bit of 'back to basics'. And we know how that turned out.
> that is not really a fair comment. Actually I think there is a real issue of People being exploited and interfered with by more pwerful People.
I agree but my impression from the experience of non-political friends who have interacted with Westminster in various ways over the years is of a working environment that hasn't moved on from the 1970s. It isn't just the abuse of power, the level of sexual banter I've heard about is like something from Life on Mars.
Only about 10 years ago, the opening gambit from a senior and well-known politician on being introduced to a very senior female academic friend of mine was along the lines of 'hello, have we slept together yet?'
On the other hand, the current reaction reminds me a bit of 'back to basics'. And we know how that turned out.
1
In reply to Offwidth:
I know, but I do like to try and get people to try and substantiate things, even when it is obviously made (especially when it is obviously made up).
> Why even ask as its so clearly bs? Some actual data is here: men were around 99% of total convictioms in 2011.
I know, but I do like to try and get people to try and substantiate things, even when it is obviously made (especially when it is obviously made up).
In reply to The New NickB:
Apparently the story with Fallon is not just the one incident but more critically that he was unable to give Theresa May assurances that more such stories would not emerge...doesn't sound like a one off to me, and really not the sort of way you would expect a senior cabinet minister to behave at an official function....or that women should be exoected to put up with
Apparently the story with Fallon is not just the one incident but more critically that he was unable to give Theresa May assurances that more such stories would not emerge...doesn't sound like a one off to me, and really not the sort of way you would expect a senior cabinet minister to behave at an official function....or that women should be exoected to put up with
2
In reply to pebbles:
The way forward for this would be Parliamentary standards forcing automatic de-selection for guilty parties (or those who have admitted guilt but not yet been tried in court) in the wake of such admissions. Logically this would be followed by local by- elections to select new MPs. Far too much entitlement in politics. I can't stand 90% of these chancers.
Can't see that being actioned any time soon though. May would be forced to try to bribe the SNP next for support!
The way forward for this would be Parliamentary standards forcing automatic de-selection for guilty parties (or those who have admitted guilt but not yet been tried in court) in the wake of such admissions. Logically this would be followed by local by- elections to select new MPs. Far too much entitlement in politics. I can't stand 90% of these chancers.
Can't see that being actioned any time soon though. May would be forced to try to bribe the SNP next for support!
3
1
In reply to The New NickB:
Information I was given by my sister before she retired - from the child abuse section of West Mercia Constabulary.
> Could you provide a source for that statistic.
Information I was given by my sister before she retired - from the child abuse section of West Mercia Constabulary.
In reply to fred99:
I'm sure she would be less than delighted having her unprofessionalism exposed in that way and your dishonest distortion of any such local data. Irrespective, actual UK wide stats are in my link.
There were some ritual abuse cases nearly two decades back where almost as many women as men were being investigated sometimes in extended family groups but most failed to reach a successful conviction. The Orkney fiasco being the most public but there were others.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_satanic_ritual_abuse_allegations
I'm sure she would be less than delighted having her unprofessionalism exposed in that way and your dishonest distortion of any such local data. Irrespective, actual UK wide stats are in my link.
There were some ritual abuse cases nearly two decades back where almost as many women as men were being investigated sometimes in extended family groups but most failed to reach a successful conviction. The Orkney fiasco being the most public but there were others.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_satanic_ritual_abuse_allegations
1
In reply to fred99:
I think you may have misremembered, the Lucy Faithful Foundation published a report a few years ago that suggested that actual numbers of offenders my be significantly higher than the official figures, but even that (20%) is an outlier and still much, much lower than the figure you suggested for convictions and the official figure is around 8%.
I think you may have misremembered, the Lucy Faithful Foundation published a report a few years ago that suggested that actual numbers of offenders my be significantly higher than the official figures, but even that (20%) is an outlier and still much, much lower than the figure you suggested for convictions and the official figure is around 8%.
1
In reply to pebbles:
So the architype for a safe pair of hands has proved, as Ms Hartley-Brewer can attest, to have at least one rather unsafe hand.
So the architype for a safe pair of hands has proved, as Ms Hartley-Brewer can attest, to have at least one rather unsafe hand.
In reply to Offwidth:
According to you, 99% of Offenders are men.
I cannot agree with the idea that females are made of "sugar and spice and all things nice" whilst males are "? and snails and puppy dogs tails".
I have personally witnessed a number of females with rather aggressive and unwanted predatory sexual behaviour, which has led men to resign - admitting they've been sexually harassed has been a worse cross to bear than the harassment itself.
I have also known of a number of cases where females have claimed to have been sexually or physically harassed/assaulted just to cause trouble for innocent males.
I these cases they knew that the authorities would come in on their side like a ton of bricks - without, from where I stood, any thought that the males might have been innocent.
In one particular case a female was so cr*p at her job she was due to be sacked. She made up a complaint, the entire office denied anything had happened - except that this female had herself attempted to push herself on 2 males just to invent something.
(I should point out that half the office was female and they were even more incensed with regard to her antics).
The end result was a statement by management that they couldn't prove anything, but that "WE BELIEVE IT MUST HAVE BEEN TRUE BECAUSE SHE COMPLAINED" - how sexist can you get.
We were all warned about OUR behaviour, and she was promoted sideways.
3 months later her new department was on the phone asking why we'd sent "THAT BITCH" to them - she'd started all over again.
If this has been recorded anywhere it's probably down as 2 offences by males on a female - quite the opposite to the real scenario.
In life I have learnt one thing - Satan is an equal opportunities employer.
So don't claim that it's all men and women are permanently sweetness and light.
According to you, 99% of Offenders are men.
I cannot agree with the idea that females are made of "sugar and spice and all things nice" whilst males are "? and snails and puppy dogs tails".
I have personally witnessed a number of females with rather aggressive and unwanted predatory sexual behaviour, which has led men to resign - admitting they've been sexually harassed has been a worse cross to bear than the harassment itself.
I have also known of a number of cases where females have claimed to have been sexually or physically harassed/assaulted just to cause trouble for innocent males.
I these cases they knew that the authorities would come in on their side like a ton of bricks - without, from where I stood, any thought that the males might have been innocent.
In one particular case a female was so cr*p at her job she was due to be sacked. She made up a complaint, the entire office denied anything had happened - except that this female had herself attempted to push herself on 2 males just to invent something.
(I should point out that half the office was female and they were even more incensed with regard to her antics).
The end result was a statement by management that they couldn't prove anything, but that "WE BELIEVE IT MUST HAVE BEEN TRUE BECAUSE SHE COMPLAINED" - how sexist can you get.
We were all warned about OUR behaviour, and she was promoted sideways.
3 months later her new department was on the phone asking why we'd sent "THAT BITCH" to them - she'd started all over again.
If this has been recorded anywhere it's probably down as 2 offences by males on a female - quite the opposite to the real scenario.
In life I have learnt one thing - Satan is an equal opportunities employer.
So don't claim that it's all men and women are permanently sweetness and light.
6
3
In reply to pebbles:
I suspect the interest has more to do with people wondering what this unfolding scandal could do to the already delicate balance of power especially if a couple more from either party follow him to the back benches or feel compelled to stand down from parliament entirely.
The Labour linked rape allegation as awful and awfully handled as it sounds isn't as I understand it linked to an MP so is very unlikely to change the direction the country takes politically, potentially for the next couple of decades so therefor doesn't directly impact me. Given where we are with brexit and the possible ramifications of another election this year the 'dirty tory' spreadsheet (for want of a better description) just could change the direction or colour of the government and is therefore I'm afraid much more interesting.
jk
> I am quite startled by the amount of people who appear to be more concerned about michael falloons resignation than that a woman was raped during the course of her professional career at Westmister and advised not to pursue the matter in case it damaged her career.
I suspect the interest has more to do with people wondering what this unfolding scandal could do to the already delicate balance of power especially if a couple more from either party follow him to the back benches or feel compelled to stand down from parliament entirely.
The Labour linked rape allegation as awful and awfully handled as it sounds isn't as I understand it linked to an MP so is very unlikely to change the direction the country takes politically, potentially for the next couple of decades so therefor doesn't directly impact me. Given where we are with brexit and the possible ramifications of another election this year the 'dirty tory' spreadsheet (for want of a better description) just could change the direction or colour of the government and is therefore I'm afraid much more interesting.
jk
In reply to fred99:
I said 99% of sexual offence convictions were of men in 2011 according to the data. The demographics for investigations charges and proceedings in the report I linked are all similarly heavily biased towards men. You can think what you like about satan as its a free country.
I said 99% of sexual offence convictions were of men in 2011 according to the data. The demographics for investigations charges and proceedings in the report I linked are all similarly heavily biased towards men. You can think what you like about satan as its a free country.
In reply to fred99:
Nobody is. They're refuting your incorrect claim"When it comes to relative numbers convicted of sex offences against children, it's 55% male offenders, 45% female." with evidence.
The information you need to see that your figures make no sense is on pg 31 and 33 of the linked document. in 2011 (which looks quite like preceding years) ~15% of all sex crime prosecutions are for crimes against minors and 99% of all successful sex crime prosecutions are of males. If your figures were right and as unlikely as it may seem females exclusively assaulted minors we'd expect that 99% startling headline figure to be in the low 90s.
Perhaps you've misremembered or you meant something different, perhaps arrests or allegations not convictions?
jk
> I cannot agree with the idea that females are made of "sugar and spice and all things nice" whilst males are "? and snails and puppy dogs tails".
> ...
> So don't claim that it's all men and women are permanently sweetness and light.
> ...
> So don't claim that it's all men and women are permanently sweetness and light.
Nobody is. They're refuting your incorrect claim"When it comes to relative numbers convicted of sex offences against children, it's 55% male offenders, 45% female." with evidence.
The information you need to see that your figures make no sense is on pg 31 and 33 of the linked document. in 2011 (which looks quite like preceding years) ~15% of all sex crime prosecutions are for crimes against minors and 99% of all successful sex crime prosecutions are of males. If your figures were right and as unlikely as it may seem females exclusively assaulted minors we'd expect that 99% startling headline figure to be in the low 90s.
Perhaps you've misremembered or you meant something different, perhaps arrests or allegations not convictions?
jk
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