UKC

Any suggestions for keeping warm in the winter? I'm a ridiculously cold person and as soon as I stop moving I am frozen. My hands are numb by the time I've got layers on and I stay like that until I move enough to warm up. At the moment I walk in in merino wool base layer with some combination of vapour rise top and waterproof and powerstretch leggings and soft shells with or without over trousers depending on the weather. When I stop I add a fleece, Rab strata hoodie, ME ghost whisperer jacket, primaloft vest, ME belay jacket plus sometimes another belay jacket as well. I wear silk liners, powerstretch wrist gaiters and Arcteryx Zebra gloves with disposable handwarmers, primaloft hat and fleece buff. I sometimes warm up enough to get hot aches while climbing, but on belays I'm back to square one. Any suggestions for keeping warm apart from yet more layers? I do have the same problem all year round but it's easier to deal with in summer.

In reply to chem_j:

That number of layers will be forming new sedimentary rock under their own weight.
Bin them and get yourself a high altitude grade down jacket and a tee shirt.

In reply to chem_j:

Sounds like maybe you're not that cut out for Winter climbing.

In reply to chem_j:

You are my mate Emma and I claim my five pounds.
All I can suggest that might work is a hot sweet brew before you set off, plenty of calories and maybe a Brynje mesh base layer for the walk in.

In reply to chem_j:

Why are you taking off so many layers that you get cold? Once you get warm you should be able to preserve that heat, otherwise the clothes aren't doing their job.

If you wear all those layers at the right time and still can't warm up get checked for thyroid issues or anaemia. If none of those maybe you're cold blooded?

In reply to chem_j:

Blimey, bet your really hot and sweaty by the time your reach the base of your route! And there in I suspect lies your problem, if your sweaty underneath, as soon as you stop you'll cool down dramatically. Loose half those layers for the walk in, especially the waterproof (unless its raining), take a spare base layer and change into this when your reach the base of your route, along with the extra clothes. Also WHY do you have to stop moving? Unless its a hanging belay You can still move you know! Iv'e perfected a little dance I do on the spot when belaying to the tune of "you've got too move it groove it, you've got too ----" Yes I'm sure I look like a right tw*t, but heh I'm warm!

M

In reply to chem_j:

There is the 'dress 5 minutes ahead of where you're going to be' principal but I always found this somewhat impractical, but throwing a belay jacket on for the last 5/10 min of the walk in can help you keep toasty when racking up.

Change into a dry base layer after the walk in.

Keep your glove liners on when racking up, putting on crampons or doing other fiddly stuff you (may) take your gloves off for.

Use multiple pairs of gloves throughout the day, keeping a warm pair inside your jacket to change into at the belay.

Don't over tighten your jacket cuffs and glove straps/ gaiters. Relax your grip on your axes, shake out often. Remember hot aches occur due to tissue ischemia (restriction of blood to the extremities) and the subsequent reperfusion (the return of blood) causes the nerves to send pain signals to the brain as they come back to life.

It also sounds like you're over-dressing. A baselayer, medium loft synthetic mid-layer and hardshell should suffice for climbing, providing you have good headwear, handwear and footwear. A high loft duvet over the top will offer far more warmth than multiple layers. You are losing a lot of body heat trying to warm up all of those layers and sweat is likely not getting out further exacerbating the feeling of being cold.

Urinate often. Same principal as above.

Take your partners warm belay jacket when arriving at a belay as second.

In reply to chem_j:
There are a lot of top tips above but
I think you need to spend more time outside under dressed for the conditions encountered
Regularly running/walking/cycling in cold (or maybe wet) conditions for 10mins and allowing yourself to get chilled will condition you. Hot shower and food to follow.

In reply to chem_j:

A couple of scotch eggs and a pork pie do the trick for me.

In reply to chem_j:

You are wearing too many layers and squashing all the air out of the insulation. Your clothes need to be loose enough that air can circulate, but tighten the hem, cuffs and neck. Eat more fats and carry a flask of hot ribena... Peanut butter sandwiches, pork pies, chocolate... Nom nom nom...

In reply to chem_j:

Eat more goats.

In reply to chem_j:

Switch to a good synthetic base layer I find merino way to sweaty you could go all the way to the byrn (sp) norwegian string vest apparently very good if hideous . Keep eating too. I suspect sweat is your enemy.

In reply to chem_j:

I find that if I wear too much I get clammy and then cold. I also boil when moving, so the walk in it's a synthetic baselayer and a pertex top (and don't wear the latter if there's no wind worth speaking of. It needs to be about -10 to add anything warmer if I'm walking up hill. I only wear waterproofs if it's raining, and take them off the moment it stops.

Gloves - smartwool or polypropylene liners - always - and for the walk in. Then a pair of BD punishers over the top.

Legs - windproof softshell with decathlon winter running tights (not as thick as powerstretch, but same principle)

When I start climbing - a thin fleece tucked into my trousers then a thick, windproof softshell. Fleece headband over my ears - rarely need a hat with a helmet on, but maybe. Merino double length buff, which keeps the crap out and provides the bank robber look if necessary.

As soon as I stop, the layers go on, including a big ME belay jacket.

Inside the top of my sack is a foam sit-mat, attached to a mini-krab and shock cord. I always sit on or lean against that - makes a huge difference. Rucksack off on belays usually to allow full 'shake your tail feather' and arm waving and back slapping on stances. Never underestimate the power of a full Apache war dance on a stance. Gets everything moving, but does startle the natives a bit though.

The secret weapon? - Nestle Condensed milk in a tube. Lives in the napoleon pocket of my jacket and is central heating in a tube. Available in Morrisons. And hot full sugar Vimto or SIS blackcurrant energy wotsit in a flask. If in doubt go for a big flask and drink it - a 1 litre flask will stay hot all day whereas a smaller one will become warm at best.

And Lucho Delitos (from Condor cycles) for general well-being and happiness and energy. A gel or two can work wonders - one taken at the CIC hut is very beneficial.

In reply to chem_j:

lots of good stuff above.

I would add stay really well hydrated to allow better blood flow, start this the day before you're headed out. Then as someone mentioned do evacuate all you can, don't have your body working hard to keep all that extra "stuff" at body temperature.

After that it's down all the way, down mitts, down jacket, down overtrousers. And don't let your down get sweaty as someone mentioned. buying a down jacket got me through my first ice climbing trip 13 years ago when pile and pertex were doing nothing for me.

In reply to chem_j:

Only thing I can suggest you might try is a heavy duty pertex/pile type jacket like a Montane Extreme jacket or smock. Buffalo also make an equivalent. I have one [jacket] but unless it is seriously cold I find I just cook inside it as soon as I start to move. I reckon this may not be a problem for you. It is effectively the equivalent of 2 or 3 layers so it might simplify your current clothing system. Wear it over a base layer.

Re liners for gloves, I always find they make my hands colder. Wrist gaiters are great though.

Good luck!

In reply to chem_j:


I'm sure many of the suggestions involving more modern clothing are an improvement on my Buffalo Big Face Shirt and HA Salopettes (plus belay jacket). However some other clothing looks as though it can ride up and I find the infamous crutch strap and more especially the high salopette top over the shirt really keeps the lower and mid torso warm. The full length zips on the salopettes mean that it is also possible for legs to remain cool on the walk in
The double side zips on the shirt mean it can be quite cool when pulled out of the salopettes. I do usually wear a base layer vest though its often not advised.
It should be possible to find more recent clothing that has some of these features if you thought it worth a try.
And a light, close fitting, fleece balaclava might help (eg Sports Direct).

In reply to oldie:
As a pensioner I don’t have a lot of money. Although you may think it strange when winter climbing I wear thick women’s tights under my trousers which are chap and warm.
When the weather warms up I prefer the coolness and hygiene of stockings and suspenders.








(A repeat but funny in my opinion)

In reply to chem_j:
Tweed suit,deer stalker with tasteful tie or crevat for the gentleman climber or straw boater and frilly blouse for the lady climber.

Long John's and woolly mits permitted when it gets parky.

In reply to chem_j:

Finding a clothing system that's right for you is a process of trial and error but a guaranteed heat generator is your digestive system. A good breakfast and steady snacking should keep your GI tract in action. All those chemical reactions and unconscious muscular processes can generate a lot of heat.

In reply to chem_j:

Do you ever get too hot? In what situations/clothing?

In reply to chem_j:

Have you considered emigrating to somewhere with a warmer climate? Australia, South Africa or similar?

I'm being serious here.

Some people are just not cut out for our climate. I have several relatives and friends who have done just that, and have built new lives abroad. I know it's a huge commitment into the unknown, but why spend the rest of your life being cold and miserable every winter?

In reply to chem_j:

Like Trangia l suggest emigrating to somewhere warmer or taking up something like jungle exploration.

In reply to chem_j:
You could try something like this

https://www.phdesigns.co.uk/omega-down-suit

And continental ice. Settled weather at -20C feels more comfortable than a foul +2C.

And try to get a good night’s sleep the night before, so try and avoid getting up too early to travel to the venue. I find if I have slept poorly I lose a lot of my ability to thermoregulate.

In reply to chem_j:

Alongside clothing strategies what do you do about eating and drinking?

I recently attended a great workshop by outdoor gear coach on keeping warm and staying dry.

They pointed out that your only heat source on the hill is food. Eating regularly and often to keep energy levels topped up and eating at the end of the day to promote recovery.

They also made is aware of the importance of directional layers to move moisture away from the body.

In reply to chem_j:

Squats and pull-ups

In reply to chem_j:
It sounds like you struggle with the cold even more than I do (it's got progressively worse for me with age). While some people have certainly given some sensible advice, those who (laughably) seem to be advocating less clothing presumably just have no understanding of what the problem is like - most seem to be able to operate in fewer clothes than I wear before even getting out of the car! Like you I need multiple layers (about 7) including two belay jackets, the thinner of which (ME Fitzroy) never comes off after the walk in in anything other than completely benign conditions. I think there is a point where the number of layers one needs even when dry inevitably creates condensation problems - a vicious circle - but I know that I would struggle badly in cold conditions with fewer layers. I'm afraid I really don't know what the answer is - my clothing has become so cumbersome that I've seriously considered giving up serious winter climbing at times. The one thing I have got sorted is hands - multiple inner pairs kept inside my clothing and beefy belay Mitts worn over the skin on belays. Inner gloves with shell gloves over the top (hard to come by) for climbing which can sometimes come off once warm on a pitch

In reply to chem_j:

I get very cold, not just in winter but in milder weather too. I also seem to experience extremes. I feel the cold significantly but when I exercise I massively warm up which creates a layers dilemma and whether I am hill walking or doing something else there is usually a regular layers addition/removal situation. As has already been mentioned, I find if I am tired or hungry then managing the cold is more difficult.

In reply to chem_j:

I haven't read the thread through, but anytime you are sitting or leaning against something, try and get a piece of Karrimat between you and the surface.

In reply to KS132:


Are you actually cold (with physiological effects - bloodless extremities, shivering etc) or do you just think you're cold? This isn't meant to be a dig, just an observation that there is a difference. Ignoring short-term discomfort is sometimes the better path - but you also have to remember not to take this too far, and think ahead. Really all you can do is try different things and see what happens

In reply to chem_j:

Are you sweating when on the move? (And therefore overdressed) then when you stop the sweat chills you.

In reply to angry pirate:

maybe a Brynje mesh base layer for the walk in.

Aye, the Brynje string vest's are grand.