UKC

Which route/ pitch do you wish you had led rather than seconded or top roped first?

For me it's East Rib, Shining Clough. I had an old Nunn guide with a ridiculously inflated grade so I let my mate have the sharp end. Regretted it ever since.

A crappy sport route in horseshoe quarry today as my mate backed off in the dark and left 2 of my quickdraws behind.

Left Wall ho hum.

Can’t think of any Tom but Right wall  my mate led it and I refused to second so to lead it but it was late on the Sunday evening and I had to get my nephew back home so never did it. Maybe this year with a strong wind behind me

keith s

Gormenghast (Lakes). Only done it on the blunt end, and enjoyed it so much. An iconic route for me when getting into climbing (don't know why, just liked the Hard Rock account, the name...) and did it on the blunt end. A few years later went twice to Heron, on a promise from above of nice, late-Spring weather. Each time it rained, once hard and I never got past the first few feet. Now I fear its too late - though happy to be shepherded up it on the end of a rope as a jouney through part of my past.

Holocaust on Dow - although I got to lead Tumble next up so on balance a good day! 

The second pitch of Delagokante in the Vajolet Towers.  One of the most brilliantly exposed pitches I have ever climbed, and I really wish I had led it.

I hear it's a bit polished these days though.

Piaz Arete/Delagokante (IV+)

Plague of Blazes. A contender for the finest single pitch I've done, quite hard (for me) and delicate but not desperate. My first time on it was seconding a young Guy Robertson. I'm doubtful that I'd ever have on-sighted it because of its lack of gear.

First ascent of Tax Exile on Jersey. I spotted it, cleaned it and then let Al Rouse have first go. I didn't think he would do it and I might learn something. However he hung on in there and I had to follow. Bugger!

Same here. I psyched out below the crux (half-way up that diagonal traverse to the right towards the crux) - which was very rare for me when my heart was set on a route. Interestingly, weirdly, there was just enough rope from that point, about 70 feet up, for me to be lowered to the ground. As if some subconscious part of my brain had calculated it.

Some of Tophet Wall, I was hung over and had "the fear" but I wish I'd led some  of it.

Next time

That must be the only route in the book that's overgraded (just looked and it gets E1 5c which is way out). Everything else in there is a complete sandbag.

Some of Centurion. I declined the first pitch lead then the rest after a long wait to third the second got to me, but could have lead the upper crux through the overhangs.

Also the second pitch of Route Two at Diabaig, which I could/should have taken as an alt lead.

How can they possibly have given East Rib 5c? I've only seconded it, so am not fully qualified to speak - but it seemed like a rather steep and intimidating HVS, which turned out to be a lot easier than expected, indeed almost friendly once you were on it. Has it even got a 5b move on it? I don't think so. But what really matters is that it's a great climb, whatever it's graded.

Yes its a very pleasant HVS 5a who's bark is worse than its bite. Most unusual for Paul Nunn's 'Sandbags in the Peak District' guidebook to overgrade a route. I thought perhaps the E1 was given to the direct start (now E4 6a) which would have been par for the course, but having double checked, no, he gives that E3 6a.

Maybe it was something that in Nunn's time, pre-Friends, was not as easy to protect?

Which book is that? It’s never seen E1 5c! 

Grrr, 'could have led'... in a 'Wish you had led' topic too! :-O

Its the old Constable selective guide

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rock-Climbing-Peak-District-Paul/dp/0094619409

Well past its best by date and notorious for undergrading routes hence Sandbags in the Peak District

Hargreaves Original is virtually unprotectable without friends and he only gave that S 4a!

yes, we always used to walk past that one in the late 60s. A well-known death route.

If I remember correctly it was in the old (pre-Nunn?) Bleaklow guide at XS, 5c with a note that it was very serious. I remember standing at the bottom on a dreich autumn day, with a gentle drizzle sweeping on across the moors. My head was pounding with the proverbial hangover from hell. The greasy spoon breakfast was trying its best to part company.

I was allowed what seemed like a two second peep at aforesaid guide, which mysteriously appeared from the bottom of some local's sac and, just as mysteriously, disappeared back inside again. My expression must have said it all. I remember an evil leer flitting across my mate's face. "C'mon, Mick, just get on with it..."

And oh, what unexpected joy!  The first cams (Friends) had arrived but we didn't have any. It felt like a VS from heaven. (I'm sure HVS is correct, just that it was easier than dozens of routes still given VS at that time.)

A simply wonderful route - like climbing up the prow of a battleship.

Mick

A route at the Cuttings in Portland, called "Hidden Treasure". It's a big triangular flake you can climb before coming out of a small stepped bit. The flake can be climbed as a lay back on either side, or smearing + compressing. I had an ankle injury then (minor tho, so mostly I was afraid being my second outdoor lead trip), so didn't dare leading it. As of today, due to a combination of life and weather, I have not yet gone back.

The book I'm referring to was  grey hardbacked Rock Climbing in the Peak by Paul Nunn.

East Rib was definitely 5c and I don't think the first edition used E numbers so it was XS 5c. Maybe the grade included the direct start, I'm not sure.

Cruel sister on pavey. I was massivly intimidated by its reputation as quite dangerous so was happy to second but it turned out the climbing suited my style perfectly, there is some sneaky gear to protect the move off the belay and it is an absolutely beautiful climb!

Agree there - fantastic route, but it has been outside of my capabilities. Nearest I got near there was Arcturus. I was dragged up Cascade too. Pavey is magnificent for raising expectations and crushing dreams.

To be fair i led the first pitch, which i imagine to be pretty similar to Arcturus and found that pretty scary. I dont think i even clipped the crucial peg it looked in such a poor state!

I know. The guidebook to which I referred pre-dated it. It was what would now be called a 'definitive' guide, vis a vis Nunn's selected volume.

Although Nunn's was a great 'selected climbs', he seemed to fall into the classic trap of undergrading stuff he found easy and overgrading stuff he found hard (e.g. Quietus, in at 6a, if I remember). Although I have fond memories of the guide, I had endless arguments about the need to upgrade stuff, to keep things safe. (I'd already struggled with the undergrading mob in the Mournes where, pre-cams, sandbags could get you killed.)

Thankfully most everything that needed to be upgraded has gone up (apart from Quietus, which rightly stayed the same adjectival grade).

Mick

It's been rebolted. The original used the bolts on Finesse, which were placed to avoid an old trad route farther left.

Mick

Great description, Mick. Where would it come in your gritstone Top Ten?

In the early book only 2 6a,s Neither of which are. The later editions I collaborated with Paul and regraded a lot of the routes applying E grades as well

I don't think they were under graded, it was an honest opinion, for an insight lead. It,s just the grade drift which sometimes has me shaking my head. People should face up.

Ho hum 

Glad to have my memory confirmed that there were no E grades in the first edition.

What was the other 6a apart from Quietus?

Queer St. But back up to 6a. Grade drift!

Not sure - but it would be in there!  The setting, the position, the history... I believe Shining Clough was the first crag that Whillans climbed on (Atherton Brothers?)

Mick

Didn't Our Father and Wee Doris and Ramshaw Crack get 6a too? Got a copy buried somewhere if I could ever find it.

I'm glad someone else has fond memories of East Rib. I led it only last year, and despite hanging around in the recess a little too long, and getting a little too pumped, I still somehow finished it clean. Amazing route. Out of interest, have you done Pisa Super Direct.. which is apparently the better of the two? Need to go back for it!

I would say it's its equal. That means a tie for first place . Most of the routes on Pisa Buttress are top quality, by the way

Yes, in the '75 guide. Plus a few others had more appropriate grades (Hen Cloud Eliminate at XS 5c for example). Some of the routes then bumped up to 6b by the third edition, and the inclusion of stuff like Ray's Roof at E6 7a. Great guides! I love the photos, always looks so dry and clean.

Good effort!  A memory you'll have forever.

Yes. As Tom V rightly says, most of those routes are great. There's the occasional one up there which is dirty, usually through lack of traffic but it's a lovely place, with an atmosphere all its own. Best saved for a hot day though and still take lots of jumpers (or whatever folk wear nowadays - probably not jumpers anymore!)

Mick

P.S. Plus that guidebook's brilliant.

Our visit last year resulted in topless climbing, but not for the adoring masses you understand. More due to the level of heat and ensuing sweaty t-shirt on the walk in. If I recall we also did Atherton Brothers, Via Principa (best severe I’ve ever done) and Phoenix Climb (one I wish I’d led too!). Pining for a return visit after this! 

It never bothers me seconding routes first; there’s plenty of other great routes. I probably wouldn’t have wanted to second Right Wall, say, but if it happens, so what - do Precious or whatever instead.

jcm