UKC

This week's Friday Night Video shows us the evolution of one of the world's climbing meccas: Verdon. From its early days in the '60s through to the present, the film explores the history and anecdotes of one of the world's most iconic climbing destinations.

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In reply to UKC News:

This is so weird that it's off any scale of weirdness. This is UKC, and we have a very interesting -albeit ragged and badly edited - movie on climbing in the Verdon (perhaps the single greatest crag in Europe ... which includes us, BTW), and NO-ONE has yet made any comment.

In reply to UKC News:

I'm actually not convinced that many people are climbing any more. A lot are kind of pretending in bolted quarries maybe. But I went into the very good Scarthin Bookshop in Cromford today and, while there were a lot of Lake District guides, there were none on Snowdonia except a single Tremadog guide from quite a few years ago. We drove through the Pass about a month ago and, OK, the Corner looked a bit wet, but there was absolutely no one climbing anywhere on any of those amazing crags in the Pass. Just what is going on? Have trad climbers decided that it's all too dangerous? My own country is becoming less and less recognisable by the day as we slide, self-willed it seems, into sheer mediocrity in everything.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Disillusioned Gordon?.... Well you are not the only one. Life seems to revolve around self and self interest ,disinterest and instant gratification these days but do not despair.

Unashamedly you have to push back, you have to ruffle feathers ,you have to put the cat amongst the pigeons and ultimately you have to say what has to be said even if it upsets. 

Have I climbed in the Verdon? No.

Am I going to climb in the Verdon. Yes.

Why? have just been provoked to climb in the Verdon so thank you.

In reply to Speed Reed:

That's really great. If I were 50 years younger, now, Verdon would just about be the top of all the places I'd want to climb.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

The pubs are open now. Only just watched it now I've got back. I thought what Catherine Destivelle said was very interesting, it seems trad vs sport exists in France too. 

In reply to nastyned:

And, if I recall, Bernard Gorgeon - the 'grizzled' guy with the long white hair - was prominent among those putting up bold routes at Ste Victoire in the 1970s, pushing grades up into the 7s ahead of most other places and often doing it off skyhook runners!

In reply to UKC News:

A vignette of a retrospective, no more than that. As regards Le Verdon, although much was captured, there remains so much more to say.

Perhaps this elides into a simpler intuition; maybe we have also arrived at that moment in time when there is more to say about the past than of the present, and maybe in saying what could be said we would say that there was something of late that was more 'valuable' and, so, worth observing now in thought and deed. 

In that sense, I think I get what Gordon is saying. But if the motivations and orientations of climbers had not moved on I think the reverence for the past would be, well, less reverent. I rather like that. There is, of course, a price to be paid for the reorientation of attitudes and perhaps that cost can be in part counted in the neglect that some lines and worse, some cliffs, have fallen into. Is this a lapse into mediocrity?

I'm not so sure, but because there is so much more to be said, perhaps it's a debate worth having...

John C

In reply to UKC News:

Thanks for that, brought back fond memories of summer 1980, shame some of the folk involved are no longer with us.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

You are kidding. Have you tried parking in any of the lay-bys in the Pass. Notorious reputation for having to get there early to get your spot.  Best bet is after 4 pm.

In reply to John Cuthbert:

A concurrent interesting phenomenon is the mindboggling increase in popularity of the Llanberis Path up Snowdon. I was recently staying with a friend in Victoria Terrace in Llanberis (the start of the Llanberis Path) and almost couldn't believe my eyes at the sheer numbers going past the window from 6.30 in the morning onwards in a continual stream. Literally 1000s of people an hour (perhaps as many as 10-15,000 per day) during the whole week I was there. In the late 60s/ early 70s the Llanberis Path was virtually deserted, the PYG track being by far the most popular route. I don't know really what to say about this. There has been a lot of criticism of it in the papers recently, particularly because of the increase in Mountain Rescue callouts, but it wouldn't surprise me if the proportion of callouts has actually fallen. Most of the people I saw - all ages, all nationalities, but mostly young people - were well equipped, having good, new outdoor clothing and boots. And most had a look of focused determination about them. Overall, I think this huge increase in popularity is a very good thing. For many young people this will be their first experience of a big hill walk and I'm sure that a large majority will then want to climb other mountains and their love of hillwalking will be for life, with great benefit to their health and appreciation of nature. Also, the popularity of this route (arguably the least interesting way up Snowdon) will be taking some pressure off the PYG track and the parking problems at Pen y Pass. I feel certain that the nicest walking route up Snowdon, that from Rhyd Ddu, still remains relatively neglected.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

We were climbing up on Scafell a couple of weeks ago and it was really busy. Queues on the classics and routes up to E3 being done. Dinas Mot was also fairly busy the following weekend and we saw parties on the Cromlech, the Grochan etc. And I've just come back from four days in Borrowdale where, again, there were plenty of people climbing trad, despite the increased difficulty of parking for the popular crags. So I'm not sure you need to write off the climbing community just yet!

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Well I enjoyed the video, and I’m going to Verdon in 3 weeks time. Its a great place, very accessible and should be on every rock climbers list of must visit destinations.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

There are quite a few bolts in the Verdon Gorge, Gordon ...

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

After travelling in Spain/France for 18 months I discovered most(not all) of the younger climbers from the UK I encountered  seemed very driven by online information that's available.As we know the more you look at this the More you go in circles as that's how the search engine algorithms work.Nothing beats having a vision of a place created by word of mouth and/or a fine guide book taken off the shelf  in a climbing shop..though those specialist shops are getting fewer and fewer imo.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I can only assume you don't climb anymore Gordon because there are so many people out and about climbing!

I'm out almost everyday whether for work or play and there's so much climbing going on from people's first leads at places like Tryfan Bach through to E10's in Pembrokeshire.

Things like Right Wall on Dinas Cromlech seem to be getting done on an almost daily basis when the weather allows!

That doesn't even include the vast amount of sport and bouldering being done - which absolutely is proper climbing even if you don't like it.

Further afield I know loads of people ticking big routes in the Alps, Himalaya and everywhere else.

Apologies for the rant, but my perception of how much climbing is going couldn't be further from yours.

In reply to climbingpixie:

Was up there yesterday, a bit misty but still a few teams enjoying the wonderful and still dry crag. What a place! Driving down to Pembroke today...

I enjoyed the Verdon film. I've only been once and came away a bit beaten up. Kept abbing into the wrong places, got excruciating foot pain in the sun (it was November), found the routes really hard... But what an incredible place to climb. I'll go back one day, but holiday bolt-clipping it ain't. Personally I'm much more attracted to the Verdon vibe than the usual 9-grade sport stuff, but it's still not really my thing. Prickly grey limestone faces and polished chimney cracks... To each his own! 

In reply to Jon Stewart:

What did you do on Scafell? It's such an amazing place to climb. I'd only been once before (for a failed attempt on LOTR) so it was nice to actually top out on some routes!

Sounds familiar. I went to the Verdon on my first sport climbing trip - that was a shock to the system! There were 5 of us on the trip and we'd all redpointed at least 7a in the UK but the hardest thing anyone climbed all week was a 6a+ and that was only because we got lost on a pitch! The particular low point was when my partner and I were backing off the first pitch of La Demande, whilst our other friends were getting their ropes stuck on the Dalles Grise ab and calling us for a rescue. Nevertheless I thought it was an amazing and inspiring place to climb and we went back a few years later (once the trauma had receded) and really enjoyed it, particularly stuff like Reve de Fer and l'Ange en Decomposition. The harder stuff seems a bit more fairly graded and sensibly bolted too.

In reply to climbingpixie: It took me 3 ties to do La Demande due mostly to being an abject numbskull around logistics though the route was pretty frisky as well  (1992) for a sport route.  The Verdon is indeed awesomes

The only reason Gordon isn't seeing anyone climbing would appear to everyone getting their ropes stuck on abseils (if you look at the number of such threads). 

In reply to climbingpixie:

Did CB (for the third time). Done quite a few routes up there this year, 2nd time on Saxon which is one of the best E2s anywhere and had a brilliant trip up The Centaur after other plans went awry. Centaur is absolutely amazing, turned out to be one of the best routes I've done in the Lakes. Did some other East Buttress routes too, which are great but I prefer the scale and atmosphere of the main crag.

Every year for the last 20 that I've been climbing people have been lamenting the death of trad climbing in the Lakes, or in the UK generally. It's total bollocks. Obviously climbing has changed almost beyond recognition since its inception, and there was a heyday for trad when the strongest climbers were putting up new trad routes at Stoney, or Goat Crag or wherever, and it's not like that now. But there's still loads of people climbing trad, at a high standard. In the recent heatwave, while I was E1s and E2s there were teams on the E3s and E4/5s next me. Every time I go to Esk Buttress some strong youngster is on The Cumbrian. Trad's just not the dominant form of climbing any more because things have changed significantly with more accessible styles becoming popular.

The experience of climbing great trad routes on the mountains crags and sea cliffs of the UK is something that takes a fair bit of effort to access, so is never going to be especially popular. But it's also so fantastic that it's in no danger of dying out.

Haha! Lovely stuff...

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Gordon! Last week you were telling us all how routes were "utterly trashed" from over use https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/trad_gear_falling_courses-738266... now you're saying the 'yoof of today' are too lazy, mediocre and cowardly to go climbing. Which is it? Are they climbing too much or not enough for you?

I climbed at Wildcat yesterday, there were about 5 parties there on the main bit of the crag. Golden Yardstick (VS 5a) got at least three ascents yesterday. I was on Dow Crag a couple of weeks ago, and it was crawling with climbers. All the classics had teams on them, and we had to wait until mid afternoon to get a free run at Eliminate A (although another team came up after us). The Matheson family team were working on repeating an un-repeated Caff E7 above Murray's Route at the other end of the spectrum. I was at Staden a few weeks back and the Joint Effort Wall was a like a climbing wall with teams on E1s, E2s, E3s and I think one attempt at an E4 - this was on the super hot weekend late in July. I went to Birchen and Lawrencefield last week and both had other teams there even at the end of the evening just before sunset. Even Goddard's - a sport cliff of the most questionable virtues (in terms of rock stability and aesthetics) has had numerous other teams climbing there when I've been in recent weeks.

My instagram seems full of people having a great time at Pembroke - James Mchaffie has done some new E8, Emma Twyford seems to be bashing out hard route after hard route, and I'm seeing pictures of non-sponsored-heroes on E5s that look the living end.

So perhaps driving up the Llanberis Pass (at what time? In what weather?) once in recent weeks isn't really a sound basis for declaring the downfall of western (climbing) civilization. And if you want to come out and 'rage against the dying of the climbing light' (i.e. bumble up some Peak HSs and VSs or even 5+s and 6as!) with me, you are most welcome!

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Funnily enough while we were jockeying for position to get on a route at Dow a couple of weeks ago, we were chatting with the team racking up to do a route next to us and we were all looking down on the brightly coloured 'ant trails' of climbers still picking their way up the scree towards the crag. The chap next to us said "I thought everyone was saying that Lakes mountain trad is completely out of fashion these days!?" I climbed on Gimmer a couple of months ago and that was nearly as busy - and also nice and sociable as you could chat with people on routes either side of you. 

In reply to TobyA:

OK, I was certainly making an over-hasty assessment based on just one recent (a dry Tuesday three weeks ago) drive through Llanberis Pass at about 4.30pm. But it was certainly very puzzling. Just where was everyone? Not a single person could be seen climbing on anything. BTW, I wasn't driving but was the passenger, so was able to scour the crags. Of course, there are a much greater range of venues now for people to climb at so they're more widely distributed.

My comments about routes being trashed was about some of the Peak classics on the eastern edges (specifically Birchens) - and I suppose it's just something we have to accept after thousands of cam placements.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

At 16:30 on a Tuesday, I expect that many people would be at work. It's not the 1980s anymore...

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

AKA talking nonsense.

I've highlighted the probable source of your error.  Sorry if that comes across rude, but I do find your constant insinuations that "real" climbing ended the day you decided to give up a bit on the offensive side.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

What a lot of bollocks you talk sometimes Gordon, just because you haven't seen it or heard about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. 

Fashions change but there are still plenty of folks out there getting on with serious trad climbing.

Edit: reading the thread I see I'm not the first to suggest this so apologies for 'piling on' but still...

In reply to UKC News:

One of my favourite climbing areas in the world. Used to go every summer at the end of the 80's (spending months there at a time, even found work at the local climbing shop), excellent bolted adventure territory. Such a unique climbing style with loads of space underfoot. Although not recommended, pushed my grades there. It was a lifestyle.

I hope to return at some point although I fear I will not be able to cope very well.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

If I was 50 years younger I would be climbing in the Verdon. Started visiting in the early 70s, and went back every year for 12 years, even did a few routes with Bernard Voucher ( one of the nicest guys I’ve ever met). Adventure really was the name of the game.