UKC

In the market for some new screws. Anybody used the Grivel 720 screws?

I've used the Camp Rocket Plus ice screws a bit this season which I really like. Quite sold on the in situ quickdraw. They rack really nicely as well via the dyneema loop and 6 screws on a standard Petzl ice clipper is no problem. Only downside (and a bit of a deal breaker for me) is the length of the fixed handle when needing to place screws in tight placements in heavily featured water steep ice. It doesn't have enough clearance for my liking when winding, and I needed to run it out a bit a few weeks ago as a result, which wasn't ideal. 

I like that the Grivel model overcomes the above issue with the hinged winder. They're also much cheaper currently via the places I normally order from. Have a few major concerns though. 

​​They are going to hang lower on the harness due to the carabiner attachment, and dangle a bit more, but not sure whether this is a good or a bad thing, since my existing screws enjoy stabbing my Goretex salopetes. My totems probably hang a bit lower and this has never been as issue. Any user feedback about this? 

Also a bit concerned about the handling and placement. The carabiner attachment presumably means I am going to have to change grip to place the ice screw, and I wonder if the lack fixed handle makes the screw harder to grip when first getting it to bite?

Leading up to WI6 these days, so efficient handling and placement is quite important to me. Great to hear from anybody with any relevant info re the above questions. Thanks. 

In reply to Mr. Lee:

You could try this…

In reply to GarethSL:

I wondered what they were so I'll save people a google. 

https://www.climbingtechnology.com/en/outdoor-en/anchors/ice-screws/ice-hoo...

Quite cool!

Tim

In reply to GarethSL:

Oo yes, that looks a good combo! How do they rack? 

In reply to Mr. Lee:

So you have to hang them by the krab on the extender I guess? That does seem a bit weird, presumably they will hang down rather low when racked on your harness. I see Grivel still sell the panpipe screw holder - perhaps that's how they see people carrying them!

In reply to Mr. Lee:

They rack surprisingly well on a clipper.

Some observations though:

The steel slider causes wear on the head of the aluminium screw from winding, it’s most likely just the anodising coming off but over time it can probably become noticeable.

The aluminium screw hold the slider slightly better as it is wider than the steel screw, this means the crabs hang close to the hanger whereas they hang slightly lower on the steel. Not inconvenient or annoying at all however.

Screwing them in works really well, just like a normal screw and am yet to have the sling flail around which I thought may happen, it hangs still against the ice ready to clip.

My last concern is the screw hanger is always going to protrude about 1.5cm out of the ice, which isn’t a huge amount and the screw is well in place if set all the way in. I just imagine there is some strength lost as it may allow for more bending if the screw is placed at a positive angle to the ice as opposed to straight down when using the hangar (if that makes sense).

In reply to GarethSL:

Your last point isn't too much concern to me. As long as the attachment is sitting tight against the ice then I don't think it matters than the screw isn't fully in. Just losing a bit of overall penetration in the ice. Might order a couple and see what I think.

In reply to Mr. Lee:

Yeah its not a huge concern for me either. I recommend it - having a few on the harness is a nice addition for when things are getting desperate. I wouldn't add them to all my screws, but so far they have impressed.

In reply to GarethSL:

Apart from the 2sec saved in placing a QD, do you find any other advantages with them?

I'd imagine with the extra weight at the handle end it'd increase the chances of dropping them at the critical moment when you first have to let go having engaged the first thread in a placement

In reply to richgac:

Absolutely none of serious worth if you like to keep things simple, its more of a novelty experiment for my part really.

They weigh 68g so you aren't saving much in weight either. The only other advantages are they are more versatile and easier to use than the Salewa Quick Screw for example, or maybe lower profile than other designs.

Placing them isn't much of a problem, but yes there could be a lever effect that could mean they drop out if the screw hasn't bitten so well when flipping your hand (but as you say, I haven't noted from anyone else with this type of quickdraw that this is indeed an issue).

I would be more worried about a second struggling to get them back on a clipper, especially if they unclip from the rope after unscrewing - could mean a bit of faff.

In reply to GarethSL:

How do they grip onto the shaft (oo-er Mrs)? Or do they just slide around on it? 

In reply to GarethSL:

I can see the benefit of having a few. As far as weight saving goes, it's committing a (slightly lighter) extender to each screw permanently instead of carrying them separately, so a full rack of them on continental ice where you're likely placing all your screws every pitch and little else, might make sense. In Scotland though you'd almost always expect to be placing rock gear as well, so still need to carry the extra quickdraws anyway...

In reply to richgac:

I thought the same, but after using a friend's set of Camp Rocket Plus screws I'm basically sold. They are so quick to place and rack better than any screw I've used due to the loop in the dyneema. I can put six screws on a ice clipper no problem, and they don't seem to want to stab my Goretex trousers in the same way. Bit harder to rack tidily for the second. The only downside is the handle is occasionally too long for me with really featured steep ice. I'm in need of new screws, so still thinking the Rocket Plus screws are in pole position, but would be keen to continue with a few screws with folding handles to get around the above issue, for which I'd be interested in trying these CT draws. 

In reply to Mr. Lee:

They kind of look like the solution to a problem that doesn't exist ... but if a friend invests I'd try them too!  Camp are good at thinking outside the box.

I'd have a look at a mix of ally and steel Blue Ice Aero screws if I was replacing my rack with a more traditional design though, they do extremely light stainless ones (30% less than BD express)