UKC

Does anyone on here have any news on when BD-MCR will be opening? 

It appears to have dragged from summer, to autumn, to comming soon 😳 

In reply to brolte:

God I wish that it'd hurry up.....rush hour drive from Congleton to Stockport for midweek climbs is diabolical. Looks like a good setup that they've got in store, hopefully it's open soon!

In reply to brolte:

If they had a definitive opening date I suspect they would make it known, since it's in their interest to do so and Depot aren't exactly shy on social media.

And it's still Autumn.

In reply to Tom Guitarist:

Isn't it much the same drive to Wythenshaw? 

In reply to brolte:

We're now into December....

Anyone have any updates?

In reply to brolte:

Heard rumours from 2 independent sources that say third week December! Three week delay from latest planned opening. But expect that might be optimistic given nothing official yet.

In reply to teapot:

Yep, I heard the same rumour today at the Depot.

In reply to brolte:

The Brit Rock film tour night has been pushed back to the 14th, they're hoping to be open for climbing beforehand 

In reply to brolte:

I get that everyone's keen - which is great for the Depot - but it's not like they're going to keep the opening date a secret.

In reply to planetmarshall:

so what is it then?

In reply to TheGeneralist:

No idea. But if they knew they were going to open on a certain date - why would they not make it known?

In reply to planetmarshall:

They might want to manage how many people know about it how far in advance to reduce the risk of being swamped with people while they're still sorting out teething problems. If I was running something like that, I wouldn't want every excited climber in Manchester turning up on the first weekend. Partly because it would be hell for the staff, some of whom are presumably pretty new. And partly because it wouldn't give a great first impression of the wall to any of the people that turned up if it was overcrowded and still sorting out the inevitable snags.

In reply to Luke90:

Yeah, I don't buy that. I won't be turning up in the first week for precisely that reason. I think it's far more likely that for whatever reason they weren't ready when they thought they would be, and they don't want to give a concrete opening date for fear of other things going wrong at the last minute - particularly toward Christmas when many businesses are winding down.

It will open when it opens.

In reply to brolte:

Key question for me is whether they've screwd up the hold order again and ordered only similar style of holds in each colour....

That's a serious drawback with the Trafford Depot. 

bleaustyle = red

Nike swooshes = yellow

Little crimps or huge identikit jugs = black

Enormous swathes with a tiny useable bit = purple

Round blobs = orange

I really hope they've sorted it out and bought a wide variety of hold types in each colour this time....

In reply to planetmarshall:

I wasn't necessarily suggesting that was the actual reason they haven't published a date, I agree with you that it's much more likely they're just not sure yet. Was just giving another reason why they might not want to make a big fuss about their opening too far in advance as you suggested it was completely implausible that they could know a date and not be publicising it.

In reply to TheGeneralist:

They have.

In reply to Euan McKendrick:

Is that "they have screwed up" or "they have bought a wide selection of each type / colour"?

In reply to brolte:

I've heard that they're introducing a tiered membership for helmets and non-helmets. Helmets are only allowed in on even hours and non helmets on odd hours 😐

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Probably neither, they'll have bought the same selection as they use at every one of their other walls, because running a business at that kind of scale means they probably get very preferential rates for ordering those holds consistently. It's not screwing up, it's a perfectly sensible approach which only 0.001% of their clientele moan about, and who they don't need as they get thousands of people through the door every week. 

In reply to Andy Hardy:

They never "screwed up".

Wait till you see the hold selection for yourself. It's incredible.

In reply to Euan McKendrick:

Having seen it for the first time earlier this week, the idea of anybody being unimpressed by this facility - or its hold selection - is hard to imagine.

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I’ve heard they even have a Bendcrete perfect copy of Broughton

In reply to kevin stephens:

I've heard they found the adjustable lead wall from The Edge in a skip and have included that.

In reply to kevin stephens:

When Broughton was demolished Dave Hinton rescued the screw in disks and distributed them to the faithful (thanks Dave). It’s been a Lord of the Rings saga to gather them together to make Broughton whole again

In reply to kevin stephens:

One crimp to rule them all 😅

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

81 on panel 3

In reply to brolte:

Well, it's open and of epic proportions. I've been twice and it will go on the wall rota but it feels  just like (much) more of the same with some good setting but limited character/features. No aretes, proper corners/grooves, v few slabs. It seems even in a wall this size that natural features have had their day. 

In reply to Bulls Crack:

I agree with this. It's a very, very well designed/built climbing centre overall. The spectators' area is particularly cool. Their hold selection is incredible across all colours/grades -- there is an amazing level of variety.

BUT as you rightly point out, they are missing a lot of cool features like aretes and such. And no top out wall again either. :/

I also don't think the setting is that great if I'm being honest (or not at lower/intermediate levels anyway -- I can't comment on anything beyond reds, though visually at least they do look like they have put more thought into being inventive with these). It's mostly very same-y and of the 'straight up' variety with little lateral movement and not that many innovative moves forced. This is a common problem at Depot walls in my experience, sadly.

In reply to Geordie2004:

I thought the setting on blacks, reds and purples was good and reasonably varied. 

In reply to Geordie2004:

Setting at depot pudsey is universally excellent…except when they use dual texture holds….crime against humanity, but I know people love them??

In reply to Geordie2004:

Can't speak for the bouldering, haven't tried it yet but the route wall is very samey, big but homgeneous. Big Depot Leeds is  less varied than the old  wall and this Big D is less varied than that. Maybe that's what the punters want. 

In reply to Graham Booth:

Sorry, I should also have pointed out that I've only been to the two Depot walls in Manchester and not any of the others (though from what I'm told Sheffield at least is very similar to the Manc ones). I've been to plenty of other bouldering walls too though, just not any of the other Depots.

Nowt wrong with dual texture holds if you ask me!

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Lots of angles including some relatively slabby routes and a huge overhang, what else would you be looking for? Corners and arêtes are indoor gimmicks. Much better to have good honest pulling. 

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Um, it isn't? Not unless you're comparing it to Ratho where your leader regularly climbs out of sight.

I'm not sure what you could possibly be looking for if you think Big Depot isn't varied.

In reply to Misha:

While modern centres are generally an improvement on how this used to be, I love corners and arêtes.  Apart from requiring specific skills, it’s good to have them indoors because they are common outdoors.

In reply to Graham Booth:

I don’t know anyone who loves them, universally reviled among everyone I climb with, and the main reason most of them still go to Pudsey rather than big shiny Armley!

In reply to Arms Cliff:

I used to hate them and didn't see the point but, having had the idea behind them explained (on here) and experienced them skillfully set (rather than just simulating polished limestone) I now appreciate them and think they are great.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I understand the logic behind them and would like to think I’ve climbed in many walls with skilful setters. I find the texture on the side do use generally horrible to climb on, but this goes for PU holds on general, whether dual tex or not. 

In reply to Arms Cliff:

What do you want to climb on if not PU? That material accounts for the vast, vast majority of commercial holds that aren't for boards. 

In reply to Misha:

Not sure if you're talking about roped stuff, bouldering or both, but for the bouldering, I think that there are a few angles missing: no huge roof, no really steep (45 or 50 degrees) overhangs, no barrel wall. The main omission from this perspective is the complete lack of top-out boulder IMO, though.

In fairness to them, I have the impression that roped stuff was slightly prioritised over bouldering for this wall (which is fair enough because they already have another Depot here in Manchester for bouldering), so I can understand why at least some of the above stuff was omitted (with the exception of the top-out boulder -- this should have been top priority for them). But what I do find more frustrating/harder to justify is the quality of the setting as I set out in an earlier post.

In reply to Geordie2004:

Indoor top out bouldering just seems like a gimmick to me and of no training value. 

In reply to Robert Durran:

Yep, pointless unless someone is truly shocking at topping out, in which case they'd be better off training it outside anyway. Nothing actually difficult is ever set on those boulders as they don't want to risk people falling off sideways/backwards.

In reply to spidermonkey09:

That's me, but I don't want it indoors. I like being able to drop off!

As you mention, my best way of getting better was to go to Shipley Glen and do loads of top-outs. None of them were actually on problems, I just "topped-out" random bits of rock. None were over head height and I felt so much more confident when I actually came to doing problems.

In reply to spidermonkey09:

Quatsch. What makes you say that?

Cafe Kraft and Steinbock have had thought provoking topouts for years.

Back to Big Depot...

I think it's pretty good. The grading is a mess, but I guess they'll sort that out once they have dealt with more important stuff.

Also a shame that they haven't set any jugfests up the main overhang. That was always one of the highlights of Leeds Wall doing easy routes in insane positions.

In reply to James Malloch:

Yeah, its a really specific move isnt it, but once it becomes ingrained its miles easier. 

In reply to TheGeneralist:

The evidence of doing problems on top out boulders in UK walls! I haven't been to Cafe Kraft so thing may well be different there. I'd be amazed/impressed if they were setting genuinely difficult topouts which risked uncontrolled falls though.

In reply to TheGeneralist:

Superblock in Düsseldorf has an excellent topout boulder, with great setting. Still miss that place.

I'd rather wrestle a topout than faff about with dynamic moves or marginal smears at the top of the wall which seems to be popular these days.

In reply to spidermonkey09:

Yeah but UK walls have been miles behind the curve for ages. I remember posting about topouts walls and tediously dull UK route setting compared to continental on UKC well over a decade ago.

I was surprised that walls in an area renowned for bouldering ( northern England) were so poor compared to walls in an area utterly not renowned for techie bouldering ( and certainly not topouts!) like the Frankenjura. And yet the German walls were streets ahead.

In reply to Misha:

I agree with this in general, and from my visits the Big Depot has made good use of volumes and big shaped holds to give different styles of climbing while remaining pretty applicable as training for outdoors

In reply to TheGeneralist:

No argument on that point, think its well established that European walls are better, but we're discussing UK walls. The setting in most UK walls seems completely fine to me. 

In reply to Misha:

Indoor gimmicks?  You've lost me there!

There's plenty of pulling but very little bridging, balancing and laybacking and no horizontal roofs/overlaps 

In reply to Bulls Crack:

I'll agree to an extent on the horizontal roofs/overlaps , though the comp wall has some of that sort of stuff, tbh I'm not a big fan on lead walls, opportunities for nasty falls. 

I've definitely done plenty of pressing , pinching, laybacking and undercutting as well as pulling. Not so much bridging maybe  but definitely a couple (or more) of routes involving some.

So what’s the space heating and temperature like? 

In reply to spidermonkey09:

PE. The move towards massive blobs when you could achieve the same things with wood volumes and small plastic holds has been a massive error IMO. I’m sure hold companies love that they’ve managed to convince enough people this is better! 
The retextured PU holds they have at Pudsey and a few other walls are also nice to climb on.

In reply to Geordie2004:

I suspect you are right about the lead being prioritised.

I think top out boulders are pointless gimmicks indoors.

No big cave but these tend to be infested with problems requiring big moves on jugs. Not a bad thing but I didn’t feel like I missed it. There are some pretty steep angles available.

I thought the setting was good. Just goes to show, one person’s good is another person’s lacking…

In reply to Bulls Crack:

I suspect you’re coming from the perspective of indoor walls providing training for outdoor technique. To a point, they do, but mostly it’s about physical training.

Personally I dislike square overlaps. They don’t feel very realistic, especially with the limited footholds you get indoors. Horizontal roofs are unrealistic for the vast majority of outdoor climbing, at least until you get into the 8s.

In reply to Misha:

Pretty common on the gritstone? 

In reply to Arms Cliff:

I'd say what you're describing as a roof is more of an overlap. If you only have to do a move or two before turning the lip is it really a roof?

In reply to spidermonkey09:

How many moves would make a roof? I reckon if your feet come off the back wall then it’s more than an overlap. Stuff like Sloth FBD. 
Maybe it should be renamed Demon Wall Overlap 😁

In reply to Arms Cliff:

Well grit isn’t proper climbing anyway 😉. There would usually be some kind of crack involved, which indoor walls can’t really replicate. At the end of the day, a gradual overhang is a lot more versatile for indoor setting. 

In reply to Misha:

Not really, it probably more a personal thing about maintaining my interest! All new walls feel the same nowadays. 

In reply to kevin stephens:

None  existent,  is bloody freezing 🥶 

In reply to Bobonrock:

Thanks, IMV all of the walls are too cold at the moment. I’ll use the heated/air conditioned gym for the time being

In reply to kevin stephens:

Summit Up in Oldham will be warm. 

In reply to kevin stephens:

Definitely on the chilly side but doable if you take appropriate warm stuff for belaying.  I managed 2 decent sessions this week and I'm not great with the cold.  It was close to the limit for me but this is quite probably the coldest week we'll have all year.  The cafe is completely closed off and pleasently warm if you need to defrost.

In reply to brolte:

Not sure how people seriously expect a warehouse the size of an aircraft hangar to be heated. The same people will probably moan it's too hot in summer! 

In reply to brolte:

I've had two sessions there without kids (on ropes) and am really surprised that people don't like it. I think it's bl**dy brilliant! I've enjoyed every route I have done, even the autobelays seem pretty well set (though they generally haven't engaged as much as the lead routes, there was a f6b+ that had me really thinking and more pumped than I wanted to be as part of my warm up!).

The lead routes have a really good variety of holds, lots of volumes used to mix up angles and there has been very little basic "pulling", apart from some of the easier lines on the steeper walls, where the setters have little room for maneuver.

I would say the one thing my group of friends have all said is that the setting is excellent (I am at the "bottom end" of the ability range). I went down on Tuesday to obviously climb, but mainly to catch up with friends I hadn't seen in a while, but ended up coming back totally psyched, desperate to get back down again, and this is someone who sees indoor leading as a chore required to get fit over the winter.

In reply to spidermonkey09:

Yeah, that people even suggest a space like that should be heated to t-shirt conditions in this weather shows how seriously climate change is being taken by many.

A few laps of the auto belay in a second layer and I was warm enough for the session.

In reply to galpinos:

I've enjoyed the routes I've done, but would say the grading is a bit uneven - maybe it just needs time to bed in a bit. I know these things are subjective, but thought the yellow 6b that goes up the corner above the fire door, whilst an enjoyable "trad style" route, was the living end!

In reply to planetmarshall:

No idea about that one, I've only been down two times and feel like I have barely scratched the surface! 

The grading could well be off, I don't climb routes indoors enough to know what grades things should be and am generally happy if things are just consistent within the wall. Also, quite a few routes are also a LOT steeper than anything I usually climb so I've no idea how hard grades should feel.

Maybe I'm just not a very discerning customer!

In reply to planetmarshall:

Given the daunting scale of the task of setting everything all at once, faced with acres and acres of completely blank brand new wall, I'd say that's a no-brainer.  No route setter is going to do their best work when they're under pressure to churn out that kind of quantity as quickly as possible.

In reply to galpinos:

I agree this place is awesome. I went bouldering last night there for the first time and even that is really good. I have had numerous sessions now on the lead wall and also with my daughter. 

A massive thanks should go out toward the depot management team / funders who chose to invest in such a great facility in the greater Manchester area. 

In reply to The Grist: 

I guess they are hoping to make a few quid out of doing so 😁

In reply to planetmarshall:

it is hard for the grade but I would not argue with 6b. It could be 6b+. 
Most of the grades seem pretty accurate to me with the odd route that stands out. There is a yellow 6c near the main overhang that feels about 7a to me and the pink 7a slab is nails. 
There is an auto belay 6c+ white on pockets that pretty much no one can do. Great route but possibly 7a+. 
 

In reply to The Grist:

Do you mean the one with loads of tick shaped volumes and round two/three finger pockets, on the left of the main overhang?

I found that desperate. Still took 3 falls on my second trip.

Alex

In reply to TheGeneralist:

Exactly the one 

In reply to Misha:

I never thought about top out boulders as a gimmick before, but you're clearly not the only one to have this view based on other responses here. Having thought about it some more, I can see why people think that -- it's true that moves on top out boulders do tend to be quite repetitive. I still think that they are useful though as they can provide a valuable intro to the idea of topping out for climbers who haven't been outdoors yet. There is a knack to it, and being able to practice it indoors would help people like that a lot.

And yes, as you say, setting is highly subjective, same as many other things in climbing ultimately.

In reply to spidermonkey09: to think, we used to be European….

In reply to brolte:

Been a few times now. Personnally I find the bouldering very disappointing compared with the other Depot Manchester, it is not in the same league.Just not quite got it right there, but that is a personal view.With time maybe it will change.

The leading mix is good.

I find the autobelays a bit regimented, they are all in one sector along one part of the wall. It feels very contrived in that part, no idea why they did it like that.

It does make me chuckle about the competency test. Big Ron Fawcett was there yesterday, good to see he passed it and was allowed in.

In reply to The Grist:

Hey. I've found one soft touch route....

About 6 lines to the left of the yellow tick-volumes is a red blobs route which is graded harder but is substantially easier. It's basically all rough, spherical holds of varying diameters. If you've got big hands and move quickly then it's all good. 

On a more serious note, I do worry slightly about the safety of some of the route setting. These big blobs and features make for interesting climbing but I think the risk of ankle damage is significantly higher than Trafford Depot and Awesome Walls.

On the shaft routes at AW, which are plumb vertical, you can climb to the absolute limit and lob off with little fear of consequences. Some of the volumes on vertical routes at BD stick out a helluva long way, so there is an increased risk.

Same on the bouldering, the initial setting ( which has now been replaced) had a load of tenuous slabby/vertical problems of colour X with massive holds of colour y just underneath to hit if you slip off.

Don't get me wrong, it's not ice climbing levels of risk, but for an indoor wall it may prove to be significant 

In reply to neilh:

Agree that the bouldering route setting not as good as Trafford Depot. Also I was down Trafford Depot earlier and it felt as if there were fewer routes - almost as if they'd taken some holds for the Big Depot - and moved some Big Depot style large volumes into the Trafford Depot. 

In reply to brolte:

We went last week. Yes it was cold but as people say how do you heat something that size? Still the cafe was warm and we soon warmed up on the bouldering wall.

Overall nice long routes and I quite liked the auto-belays. Tricky to judge routes on one visit when everything is fresh but I thought the bouldering was well set.

One small criticism I would make is that there was as much scope to down climb on the bouldering. Yes there were down climb holds but usually only a couple and on many problems I was forced to jump the last few feet. Obviously not a problem for the young but older climbers like me try to avoid too much impact on the old bones.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

This is a recurrent theme with Depot ( and probably other walls). I've mentioned it to the staff multiple times but little result. I've also discussed it with others who are equally pissed off about it. It's really weird that they put all this shit in their Rules about downclimbing but then don't provide the wherewithal to do it all all grades.

I do keep thinking about raising it with their insurance company. Needless to say, I won't, but I wish they'd sort it out.

In reply to TheGeneralist:

Generally speaking, Awesome walls (Stoke) where I usually climb are very good with this. The cave being the only area where you may have to jump

In reply to planetmarshall:

6b+ that one surely!  Did you try the blue. I think top-rope 6b opposite? Harder than the  6c I did ealrier in that session! 

In reply to neilh:

I was disappointed about the bouldering too, very compy and weird. When I asked whether I could jump on the auto-belays I was told I couldn't, not that session anyways. Apparently once you go in and don't do the assessment immediately then you are not allowed to climb the routes. Didn't makes sense to me but there you have it. Routes looked good tho, despite not being able to try one.

In reply to neilh:

I was disappointed about the bouldering too, very compy and weird. When I asked whether I could jump on the auto-belays I was told I couldn't, not that session anyways. Apparently once you go in and don't do the assessment immediately then you are not allowed to climb the routes. Didn't makes sense to me but there you have it. Routes looked good tho, despite not being able to try one.

In reply to Ramon Marin:

I wonder if they are doing it deliberately to keep the other Depot fed with climbers, which also still has the excellent wooden boards.

Also agree with the comments  about down climbing..especially for us older climbers...there are not enough down holds.

Still they have got a hell of alot of holds to play around with.

In reply to neilh:

Interestingly they are using the same route setters for the bouldering at the Big Depot as they do at Trafford Depot. Different style maybe? Possibly more comp style at the Big Depot.
It’s a fantastic centre and we thought the lead route setting was really good.

In reply to Christheclimber:

This is the deal with the Leeds two bouldering walls, Armley more comp stuff massive blob holds, Pudsey more basic. 

In reply to Christheclimber:

Yes a nice development from the days of Abraham Moss etc!

In reply to Bulls Crack:

No - that yellow 6b is now gone however there's another at the other end of the hall on the slab, next to a significantly-easier blue 6b. Maybe it's something about the yellows!

In reply to neilh:

Those were the days, no mats and solid floors no wonder my knees are completely knackered though the moveable peg board was ahead of it’s time. 
As for the competency test at the Big Depot, one of the instructors told me it’s the oldies like us who are more likely to fail it……….

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Indeed. Apparently the concern is that people could turn up with their friends, learn how to tie a fig 8 / belay on the day but not retain that knowledge for next time. 

In reply to Christheclimber:

I have no issue with the test, Its to be expected at any new wall. I would probably take issue with anyone having a go at the young and probably somewhat stressed staff because they questioned the slightly dodgy bowline variation #87 that they personally learned from Siegfried Hereford and won't be changing it now, by jingo.

In reply to Christheclimber:

Does not surprise me at all !

The checkers do handle it efficently.

In reply to planetmarshall:

I get questioned now and again about the End Bound Single Bowline I use but that's a relatively new knot. 

It's the etriers they usually have truck with...

In reply to planetmarshall:

Me neither.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Will have to check that out, I've recently adopted a rethreaded bowline which is a bit more faff but inspires a bit more confidence than the fairly sparse-looking single bowline with stopper that I used to use. I particularly like the double pass through the belay loop.

In reply to planetmarshall:

I used this doc - password is:  copyright

https://www.paci.com.au/downloads_public/knots/Bowlines_Analysis.pdf