UKC

Inspired by the gates out or in post… How do you rack your nuts, assuming you’re carrying more than one set? A lot of (most?) people seem to group their nuts by size - small, medium and large. It makes sense but I just can’t get my head around it (I’ve tried…).

I rack by set - walnuts 1-9, walnuts 1-8, perhaps add some extras to one or both sets, set of offsets including the 3 largest brassies, large clutch of micros up to a standard side 1 or 2. There’s a certain logic in that I have at least one set on both sides, at least early on in a pitch, plus in the unlikely event I drop a set I should still have wires of a similar size available. Mostly though it’s force of habit - I started climbing with a single set, then added a second set and kept it separate.

In reply to Misha:

I've got unanodised rocks 1-10, set of DMM and Wild Country offsets, and a set of DMM micro walnuts, DMM Peenuts, and various other non-brass micros; all sets kept on large DMM O shape biners. For single pitch grit usually just take the rocks, if it looks like it'll take offsets or it's quarried grit/rhyolite I'll take the others depending on what the route looks like. Also have a set of DMM brassies but yet to carry them in anger (bought at a discount in anticipation of doing more slate routes than I actually do).

In reply to Misha:

Rock 1 and smaller (about 10 of them) on the front krab.

Rocks 2-5 (×2) on the next one.

Rocks 6-8 (×2) on the third.

In reply to Misha:

I have three sets (DMM nuts, WC nuts, DMM Offsets) split across three Oval snapgate carabiners. They’re in size/colour order - micro, medium, big.

the harness I use (DMM) had slots to add ice screw holders, so I added one of those on each side and rack the oval biners onto those so my wires are easy to get to, it works really well

In reply to Misha:

I have a set of walnuts 1 - 11 with some.doubles in the smaller sizes, a set of offsets, and a set of half nuts 1-7, plus a set of micros (1 & 2 half nuts go here).

Colour coded crabs to rack them:

Red (danger): micros 

Orange: double purple to silver, gold halfnut

Yellow: gold to red walnuts half nuts and offsets, doubled gold offset as it's the best one.

Green (go go go): everything else from grey up.

In reply to Misha:

Full set each side (at first at least).

Redundancy ftw. Have never understood the grouping mentality as if you drop a biner you just lost all your small/large/whatever options. 

In reply to NaCl:

In 40 years, I've only done that once. The flip side is e.g. you're pumped and need a #6. You fumble for the nuts to find (eventually) that the #6 is still on the harness....

It's horses for courses

In reply to Misha:

Usually small & large, plus if I'm somewhere scary & committing sometimes a spare set of about Wallnut 1-7 (or equivalent) as a backup.

Something I've also tried in scary & committing situations is odds & evens - ensures that dropping a krab doesn't drop everything in a given size range

In reply to Misha:

Are you rigging the north face of the eiger, how many are you carrying?

I have 1-10, plus one extra of 4,5,6,7. Divided between two krabs, to go either side.

If and only if the route requires it I'll carry an extra krab with about 10 size 1 and smaller on it. 

In reply to Misha:

I have 2 sets of 1-7 wallnuts, 1 set of 8-12 wallnuts and a big selection of micros. Depending on the route I may add certain sizes or some offsets, or leave the micros.

In reply to Misha:

Winter, odds and evens.

Summer s,m,l and additional crab of stupidly small which often stays where it belongs, in the bag.

Some areas, I will ditch some cams and add more wires.

I am pretty relaxed about it, I tend to look ahead from each rest and tailor organisation appropriately.

In reply to Misha:

Micros and Rock 1's on one krab.

Rocks 2 - 4 on another krab

Rocks 5 - 7 on another krab

Rocks 8- 10 on another krab

3 sets 1- 7

2 sets 8- 10

All racked on right of harness, micros second loop back, others in fron loop, smallest at front.

In reply to Misha:

I usually carry one and a half sets, with doubles in the middle sizes.  And I rack by size, but with overlaps.

One crab is dinky to #1 and is only carried if I think I'll need it.

Normally I'm carrying #1 to #7 on one crab and #5 to #11 on another. That way if it's a middling sized placement it doesn't matter if I guess wrong by one or two sizes.

Offsets on their own crab, to provide redundancy against dropping something.

In reply to Misha:

Depends how much gear I'm taking, either small and large if just taking one set, or if carrying multiple sets I usually split small, medium, and large. Then depending on route I also have a krab with offsets and a krab with micros.

In reply to Misha:

Set of wallnuts 1-8 plus extra of 3-6, distributed with an overlap on two colour coded biners. Set of offsets racked on separate biner.

I add micro nuts/ small offsets or add extra of specific sizes if routes come with a recommendation in the guide. Nuts 9 and up are typically left in the pack/car/home.

In reply to Misha:

I try to only carry a sensible amount for the pitch but generally cams left front, long draws left back, short draws right front, hexes nut key belay plate prussik alpine draws back right. Double slings ,no singles, over left shoulder, 8mm tied cord  sling for wires over right shoulder.

All racked small to large front to back. In theory could find the right kit with eyes shut and either hand. Find wires on bandolier sling essential unless climbing easy routes.

In reply to Misha:

I've been trying to reduce the number of nuts I carry. it all got a bit ridiculous when DDM offsets came along, before that I was getting along just fine with doubles in all but the biggest sizes.  Typically I now carry 1 set Wallnuts, doubles us up to size 6, split across 2 carabiners by size. Offsets on a separate biner if think they'll be useful for the rock type.  

I do add more if going to Pembroke, or tend to thin out for grit routes. I still have the original Peak Gritstone East Rockfax that has a picutre of a 'typical grit rack' as 1-10 rocks, 3 cams, a couple of slings and may 5 or 6 extenders. Not typical anymore!  

In reply to Misha:

Nuts clustered by size: small, medium, large. Basically a set of rocks and set of offsets together (alloy offsets in larger sizes, brass in smaller). Amazing how often I reach for offsets vs rocks.

Plus a set of superlights on a biner for bigger routes and RPs to add as needed.

In reply to Misha:

Similar to most people by the looks of it, full set doubled up in the middle and split over two crabs, racked right front and usually clipped through both my gear loop and whichever quickdraw carabiner is adjacent to them.

However you rack them, the main thing is that you occasionally lay them all out on the floor and agonize over which sizes to remove to shave some weight off your rack. If done correctly, you should finish with exactly the same set of nuts as you started with, minus the solitary no. 4 wire held in your other hand which you can just clip back to the rest because, what if you need it?

In reply to Misha:

You see a placement, you reach for the krab with the wire you think will fit. So far so good and it matters little how you rack your wires except that ideally the krab with the one you want can be got at with either hand.

But then you find you misjudged the size, or the one you wanted has been used already. What you don't then want to have to do is to hang on while you put one krab of wires back on your harness and select another one, so it makes absolute sense to rack wires of similar size on the same krab.

Depending on the nature of the rock and the length of the route, I'll use anywhere from one to four wires krabs, though most commonly there'll be one for micros, one for small wires - up to about size 3 or 4, and one for bigger wires; racked front to back from small to large on a front gear loop to maintain the best visibility and accessibility possible with either hand.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Hmm mebbe I'm all thumbs. It's not happened many times but it's happened a couple. 

Supplementary Question: what shaped racking krabs. I use ovals easier to sort thru the wires.

In reply to john arran:

Well put. I think the people with more esoteric systems must be better than me at consistently judging the size correctly first time and also remembering which nuts they've already used. If I looked at a crack and decided it needed a 3, there's no way I'd be able to remember whether the 3 I used previously came from my left set or my right set to know where I could still find one. And if I then realised I actually needed a 4, it would be incredibly frustrating to realise that the remaining 4 is on the other set that isn't in my hand!

In reply to Misha:

Set of 1-11 on a wiregate and that's it. Sea cliffs might need a second half set of smaller nuts on the back of the harness for back up. I have a mate who stands at the base of a route and takes what he thinks he might need, terrifying to watch but he's generally spot on.

In reply to NaCl:

For a big Pembroke or igneous rock pitch usually about 2.5 sets: a few RPs, wallnuts 1-8, rocks 1-10, sometimes offsets typically size 2-6. Like most here I rack them small, medium and large: tiny-three, two-six, five-ten.

Overlapping the range of sizes means, firstly, that you're less likely to need to change the carabiner if you get the wrong size first go and, secondly, there is some redundancy if you drop a set of wires. Having said that, I don't recall ever having dropped a carabiner of wires in decades. 

In reply to john arran:

Strange. No mention of the obligatory Moac.

In reply to John Stainforth:

Where would I rack it? On the left. At home.

In reply to Misha:

Walnuts are the devils work .  Double / triple normal nuts 1-4 on one crab , 5-7 on another and the rest on a third. 

In reply to fammer:

Loved the colour coding.

In reply to john arran:

What you say makes sense, I just never got used to grouping by size and now beyond redemption. I try to use one of the sets in priority (the 1-8 with some doubles) so as to have a full set available for instances where time is precious. Clearly this only works some of the time.

In reply to Misha: after many yearsI I  eventually gave in and went from sets - rocks up to 7 , walnuts up to 7 , a couple of 8 s and 9s separately , BD micros + a few rp s  to  Micro , S M L because everybody I climbed with did that and hand overs are a complete pain if you have to fiddle with your nuts every time you swap . 

In reply to John Stainforth:

I rack the Moac on the left.

In reply to Misha:

Wallnuts and Offsets racked together. One krab with sizes 1-6, another krab with sizes 7 - 11.

Rocks racked together (1-6 & 7-10).

I don't put all the nuts of one size on one krab partly because it becomes unwieldy, and partly because if I drop a krab, I won't have lost all the nuts in that size range.

In reply to John Stainforth:

The Moac was to nuts what EBs were to climbing shoes.

In reply to Misha:

I tend to fall into two camps. I have a set system that works for me on routes I find fairly straightforward and then choose what to take and how to rack it on routes I find more challenging. I also have several types of nuts which  I can then choose from according to the route / rock type etc.

    The standard set up would be:

 7-8 nuts per krab ( I find more unwieldy for me ).

Usually slight overlap on each krab.

Micros on one or two krabs, often not taken or needed.

At or less than the width of my fingers on one krab.

Bigger than fingers, medium size, on another.

Larger on yet another.

When going to a route / area I'm not familiar with I will often double up on the size range suited to the route - most often the mid range.

In reply to john arran:

You are implying that the EB was a talisman! Steady now!

In reply to David Bowler:

One on the left, one on the right.

In reply to oldie:

Baby Moac on the right, full sized on the left

In reply to Misha:

Racked by size, two crabs. Just one set, plus peanuts if I might be climbing slate. Sometimes on harness or a bandolier if swinging leads on multi pitch.

In reply to john arran:

This assumes you never misjudge the size of placements, either side of wherever you have decided to split your sizes as there will be occasions when you need to hang on to swap sets. For example if you get to a placement and estimate it is a size 4. You have a set of multiple 1-4 and a set of multiple 5-8, however a 4 turns out to be too small and you need a size 5 you are going to have to swap sets. Perhaps less chance of this happening than needing 5 and needing to remember which set you have already used the 5.

It could be argued it also discourages the ability to improvise and see different placemets in the heat of the moment such as chaging the orientation of a wire to achieve the same result or seaking out a different  placement so you don't just use the same sizes muliple times in the most obvious placemets. Other than if you drop a set advantage misha pointed out (really unlikely) you have the advantage of a set on each side of you which is quicker and easier to reach on many occasions, particularly if squashed against the rock on one side. On shorter routes you can also ditch a whole set to save weight easily. Both ways have thier advantages and disadvantages.

Personally I go for every route:

A set of 1-6 + corresponding offsets, (9 nuts in total on a krab)

A set of 7-11 + corresponding offsets (7 nuts in total on a krab)

For harder routes usually above HVS only I add in a set of Brass offsets + 1-3 on a krab.

For longer routes in addition i add a 2nd set of 1-6 + corresponding offsets. After that I customise my rack with extra numbers or types of wires if i know I'm going to go somewhere with fiddling gear like slate in the same way I would with addtional cams for cracks or loose the larger cams when it is obvious from the ground they are not required. 

In reply to Misha: the key issue for me is not how you set up your racking as folk will have what works for them. Rather, it is the backward creep of harness gear loops over the years. I may be getting addled but recall the front loops being closer to the buckle so easier to see and select from. It also meant anything on the second set of loops was more visible.

In reply to Neil Morrison:

Yes, I've found this a problem. The level of shoulder mobility required to reach the gear loop is usually great than that required for the climbing.

In reply to John Stainforth:

Because even those of us who have been climbing a bit over 30 years don't remember them. I bought my first nuts maybe in 1990 or 91 and I don't remember MOAC being a thing then. 

In reply to Misha:

I'm like you, basically a set per krab. I've got Walnuts 1 to 11 on one krab, although I often don't take the 11. Offsets from small brass up to the biggest alloy with a few doubles of my very old HB alloys, on another krab. I've got a selection of RPs, HB offset brassies and little BDs on another but I don't regularly take them. I've got a fourth krab with a set of Metolius Ultralight nuts but they rarely come out - normally just as part of a very light small rack for scrambling or easy winter routes. 

I've never got the grouping them in size clumps, just like I've never got why people think oval Krabs work for racking!

In reply to TobyA:

I had my tongue in my cheek, of course. Though all of us who had Moacs had a sentimental attachment to them, because they were the first aluminium chocks and a well placed one, in a strongly tapered slot, ft was (and still is) one of the best anchors imaginable.

In reply to TobyA:

I was talking about 55 years ago.

In reply to Neil Morrison:

I have noticed the same. it even happens with existing harnesses.

I can no longer see my feet either.

In reply to Misha:

Generally split into small and large. Large is wall nuts 6 to 11. Small is a weird combination of wallnuts 1 to 5, peenuts 4 and 5, BD micro 3 and 4 and IMP 2.

As others might well have already said, some kind of colour coding of carabiner and wires is a great idea so both climbers can rerack them into logical sets rapidly on multipitch routes

In reply to Misha:

Krab 1 - DMM Wallnuts #2-#10
krab 2 - WC Rocks #2-#10

krab 3 - #1 of the above + some random other #0/#00 and RPs. Only really tend to carry these if I think I'm going to need something that small.

Also got a set of Rocks on Dyneema, which were my first set and I love them still - no faffing around with extenders, but you had to be good at judging the right size. Sometimes still carry them, but mainly used for top rope anchors these days.

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

You argue against grouping by size and then group by size.

In reply to David Coley:

Leveraging my boredom and ADD, I asked tough tags if I could have a blank sheet or off cut of each of their colours (that match carabiners). It didn't cost much and so I used little strips to colour code my nuts. A lot of effort but rainy days in Lochaber make you go a bit stir crazy. (p.s. I don't always carry all of these!)

Makes for really quick belay gear sorting!

In reply to timparkin:

That is very satisfying. 

In reply to Misha:

I had the following system.  Everything was racked in size order:-

left side front gear loop, in order from front to back

BD oval with set of brass offsets, set of imps, 3 smallest tricams - that was my 'get me out of trouble gear'

BD oval with a set of Wallnuts, my 1st choice nuts

Right side front gear loop - BD oval with set of alloy offsets in size order. Big cams

Small/medium cams lived on the leftside back gear loop with 3 long QDs, short QDs lived on the right rear gear loop.

This gave me gear loop redundancy so I didn't lose all my nuts, cams or QDs if a loop failed. Ovals are lots better for racking wires than D-shaped krabs. Biggest bits were nearest the back of the harness.