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Lynx return to the Cairngorms

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 Doug 09 Jan 2025

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/09/two-lynx-released-loose-sco...

Seems someone couldn't wait for an official re-release, wonder how long till they are captured/shot ?

 DaveHK 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Doug:

Some great outpourings of joy on social media about letting them be and hoping they make it but it's quite clearly not going to lead to lynx repopulating the Highlands.

Post edited at 07:18
 ExiledScot 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Doug:

'Low risk' it says in the article, clearly zero risk to people. 

1
 veteye 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Doug:

I'd be fairly annoyed if I owned an outdoor domestic cat in the Kingussie area: The cat would have to become an indoor cat for its' safety.

What is the history of Lynx in Scotland? What is the rationale for considering reintroducing them?

65
 PaulJepson 09 Jan 2025
In reply to veteye:

They were native and a lot of strong arguments for reintroducing them. God knows we need an apex predator to sort the ecology on this weird little island. 

Apparently there was EU legislation that would have made that a lot easier but 52% odd of voters radged that opportunity. 

9
OP Doug 09 Jan 2025
In reply to veteye:

there's a free 'e-book' by David Hetherington and Laurent Geslin which makes the case for a re-introduction, see

https://www.scotlandbigpicture.com/store/ebooks/the-lynx-and-us-ebook

can't remember the details but they were part of the British fauna in the past, re-introductions have worked elsewhere, and it seems that, at least in places, suitable habitat is available. But there is clearly a lot of opposition from land owners & others.

 mondite 09 Jan 2025
In reply to veteye:

> What is the history of Lynx in Scotland? What is the rationale for considering reintroducing them?

Native and very useful for deer control. Unless a cat really likes to roam seems unlikely they would come into conflict either. Certainly not more than say a fox which lynx may help to control.

I would be curious when this release happened. Whilst whenever big cats and the UK come up I scoff I have wondered for a while whether someone followed up the beaver releases with a handful of lynx. Given how secretative they are its something which might have happened a while back.

 Dangerous Dave 09 Jan 2025
In reply to veteye:

Domestic cats kill are a massive threat to the eco system, I don't understand why there are not stricter controls on them. Imagine I let my dog wander around outside as it pleased! At the very least cats should have to have a collar with some sort of bell to give birds a chance! 

8
 mondite 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Doug:

Been caught already. So I assume they were captive bred and raised.

 Michael Hood 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Dangerous Dave:

I don't believe bells are that effective, cats learn how to move without making them tinkle and since they mainly operate as ambush predators, they're not moving until they pounce anyway, too late by then.

 MG 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Doug:

Who on earth has two spare lynx they can release??

 mondite 09 Jan 2025
In reply to MG:

> Who on earth has two spare lynx they can release??

nice try at catching us pc plod.

Quick google shows that Safaria Zoo in the lake district which recently got shut down for being appalling did have at least one lynx (Canadian ones though). I am now somewhat suspicious.

 DaveHK 09 Jan 2025
In reply to MG:

> Who on earth has two spare lynx they can release??

Probably unwanted Christmas presents. Remember, a lynx is for life.

 Tom Valentine 09 Jan 2025
In reply to DaveHK:

Yep, somebody put  deodorant on their letter to Santa but forgot to capitalize the brand name

 mrphilipoldham 09 Jan 2025
In reply to veteye:

The local bird population will be delighted at one fewer introduced non-native apex predators on the loose.

11
 veteye 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Dangerous Dave:

I actually keep my cats in for two reasons:-

1. The road out front is busier now, and fairly fast.

2. I feed the birds in my garden, and don't want to deplete them.

To save birds, it is thought that feeding them is best, as when there is a group of them, they see the cat more quickly.

Having said that, I had a feral mother cat lodge in my garden a few months back, with three kittens, and she slimmed down the too profuse Wood Pigeon population and got rid of the rabbits, and a single squirrel.

I have one of her kittens at work, and he's a lovely cat.

1
 Sean Kelly 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Doug:

Irresponsible really as any release into the wild needs careful management or else the animals can starve. Certainly not in the middle of this current cold spell. The location also needs to be thoughtfully considered.

 Wainers44 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Doug:

We see far too many birds of prey being poisoned already,  suspiciously around the game and grouse estates. Are the landed and wealthy going to allow these lovely creatures to be released and left alone? I think not, sadly. 

 DaveHK 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Wainers44:

> We see far too many birds of prey being poisoned already,  suspiciously around the game and grouse estates. Are the landed and wealthy going to allow these lovely creatures to be released and left alone? I think not, sadly. 

Some landed and wealthy are very much for reintroductions. See Alladale estate and wolves.

 ScraggyGoat 09 Jan 2025
In reply to DaveHK:

The landed and wealthy in the firm of Alladale are very much in favour of reintroductions, accompanied by exclosures; for us plebs.

To give credit the regeneration of the flora so far is very impressive.

 Wainers44 09 Jan 2025
In reply to DaveHK:

> Some landed and wealthy are very much for reintroductions. See Alladale estate and wolves.

Good that some at least are up for it. 

1
 oldie 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Dangerous Dave:

> Domestic cats kill are a massive threat to the eco system, I don't understand why there are not stricter controls on them. Imagine I let my dog wander around outside as it pleased! At the very least cats should have to have a collar with some sort of bell to give birds a chance! 

Are we sure that lynx won't increase the killing of birds especially in those areas that don't have domestic cat populations? Just curious, I'm not necessarily against reintroduction of lynx. There may also have been much more woodland in past centuries with original lynx populations, and the effects of deforestation on prey and indeed lynx themselves might be unpredictable.

4
 PaulJepson 09 Jan 2025
In reply to oldie:

Would a Lynx really be bothered with the sorts of birds that domestic cats go for? They might fancy a grouse or pheasant but surely most garden birds would be too small to bother with. I was surprised by how big lynx are when I saw them up close.

 LastBoyScout 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Dangerous Dave:

> Domestic cats kill are a massive threat to the eco system, I don't understand why there are not stricter controls on them. ... At the very least cats should have to have a collar with some sort of bell to give birds a chance! 

We gave up with collars with our last cat, after she "lost" the 3rd one! They are designed to fail if they get snagged, so they don't strangle the cat - not sure if she'd worked this out and just pulled them off.

1
 Neil Morrison 09 Jan 2025
In reply to oldie: More info here, maybe the same link as the one above but it wouldn't open for me 

https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/news/can-we-live-with-lynx/?fbclid=IwZXh0bg...

 mrphilipoldham 09 Jan 2025
In reply to DaveHK:

The cynic in me would argue this is playing the long game, and envisaging eventually being able to offer the hunting for wolves... 

1
 Tom Valentine 09 Jan 2025
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Not sure about that. I mean, no-one's been offering pigsticking as a birthday gift experience yet and the boars have been around for quite a bit.

1
 DaveHK 09 Jan 2025
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

> The cynic in me would argue this is playing the long game, and envisaging eventually being able to offer the hunting for wolves... 

I make no comment on their motivations! I was just pointing out that not all estates are against reintroductions.

 oldie 09 Jan 2025
In reply to PaulJepson:

> Would a Lynx really be bothered with the sorts of birds that domestic cats go for? They might fancy a grouse or pheasant but surely most garden birds would be too small to bother with. I was surprised by how big lynx are when I saw them up close.

Not sure. Neil Morrison's ref seems to agree with you. Woodland trust perhaps less so.: While the diet of this species varies depending on its range, it feeds predominantly on roe deer, where available. It also eats red deer, birds, rabbits, hares, rodents and foxes.

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/animals/mammals/l...

 LastBoyScout 09 Jan 2025
In reply to Doug:

Apparently now captured and in quarantine.

 ExiledScot 09 Jan 2025
In reply to veteye:

> I'd be fairly annoyed if I owned an outdoor domestic cat in the Kingussie area: The cat would have to become an indoor cat for its' safety.

Lynx are shy to say the least, they'll stay well away from people, so pets are  pretty safe. They'll kill foxes though as they consider them to be hunting the same prey (in part, rabbits, hares, grouse, capercaillie..)

 Frank R. 09 Jan 2025
In reply to ExiledScot:

I can attest to their shyness – having never seen one myself!*

* Even when hiking where they live many times, that is

In areas they have been re‑introduced decades prior (or never been exterminated in the first place, like parts of Central & Eastern Europe), they are considered to be the rarest sighting of all for any wild animal watcher or photographer.

 ScraggyGoat 09 Jan 2025
In reply to ExiledScot:

Wild lynx are very timid. These two are clearly at least semi domesticated and partly habituated to human contact. So they would potentially have been atypical in behaviour and once hungry might have been less shy of investigating the around ‘town’ menu.

 Tom Valentine 09 Jan 2025
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Sounds a bit like a fish in a barrel exercise when you read all the details. Some of the European You Tube footage I've seen makes it look like a scary business when actually hunting them on foot  and the most surprising thing to me is that more dogs aren't lost as collateral damage, either to gunshot or tusks.

Post edited at 13:05
 DaveHK 09 Jan 2025
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

> ???

Well that's my FB timeline ducked up for a bit...

1
 ExiledScot 09 Jan 2025
In reply to DaveHK:

Curious, 7 acres, heavily fed, but they are 'wild' boar! Sounds like paying a fortune to shoot farmed animals. 

 George Ormerod 09 Jan 2025
In reply to ExiledScot:

I live in the foothills of the Canadian Rockies and Lynx are extremely shy totally harmless to people and I've never heard of them taking any pets (Coyotes and Cougars on the other hand.............).  I think they would be an excellent candidate for reintroduction to the highlands - a lot less emotive than wolves.

 mrphilipoldham 09 Jan 2025
In reply to ExiledScot:

Bit like pheasants really! 

 mondite 09 Jan 2025
In reply to ExiledScot:

> Curious, 7 acres, heavily fed, but they are 'wild' boar! Sounds like paying a fortune to shoot farmed animals. 

Yup some of the descriptions come across less as hunting and more as target practice eg "Did you hear about the released/escaped boar? Well, they keep coming back to see where they escaped from and trying to break into the pen where other boar are enclosed as quite a few of them are females".

I am surprised they dont offer remote control rifles so we can hunt from the comfort of home.

 Graeme G 09 Jan 2025
In reply to mondite:

> I am surprised they dont offer remote control rifles so we can hunt from the comfort of home.

I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't in the pipeline somewhere in the world. I'd suggest getting in there quick and make your fortune. 

Edit....already put before the house in USA in 2005

https://www.realitycheckswithstacilee.com/post/hunting-by-remote-killing-wi...

Post edited at 17:43
 Frank R. 09 Jan 2025
In reply to mondite:

Here, the boar "hunters" usually just shoot each other (in the very best scenario which I thoroughly approve), or in the worst case usually some innocent hikers bivvying in the field ("your honour, I swear I saw the antlers on their head, I swear!")

Post edited at 20:35
 ExiledScot 10 Jan 2025
In reply to Frank R.:

A MTBer at Morzine was one I recall. 

 JLS 10 Jan 2025
In reply to Doug:

Seems there was a whole pride of them released…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6pxdxe4j9o

 mondite 10 Jan 2025
In reply to JLS:

wtf. Did I make a mistake ignoring that boxing day sale for lynxes assuming it was deodrant rather than the real thing.

Although I suspect there will be quite a few false positive sitings for a while whenever someone sees a fat housecat.

 Frank R. 10 Jan 2025
In reply to mondite:

"Buy two, get two more for free!"

Seriously – from the Beeb video – those are totally domesticated, unafraid of people and totally unsuited to live in the wild. Such a rogue release is only hurting the whole rewilding cause, IMHO.

 Lankyman 10 Jan 2025
In reply to Frank R.:

> "Buy two, get two more for free!"

> Seriously – from the Beeb video – those are totally domesticated, unafraid of people and totally unsuited to live in the wild

I'm sure they edited out the sound of banging the spoon against the food tin and shaking the crunchies box

 deepsoup 10 Jan 2025
In reply to Lankyman:

I just watched that vid, and it really is remarkable how such a shy creature (when it's wild) was virtually lured into the trap with a "Here kitty kitty, pspspspspspspss."

 mik82 10 Jan 2025
In reply to deepsoup:

It definitely looks like a very large domesticated cat rather than a timid wild animal!

 Frank R. 10 Jan 2025
In reply to mik82:

Yes, I was waiting for it to start purring!

(apparently, lynxes do purr – the largest purring feline is the cheetah)

 Michael Hood 10 Jan 2025
In reply to Frank R.:

> (apparently, lynxes do purr – the largest purring feline is the cheetah)

You probably already know this, cats can either roar or purr but not both - something to do with structures in the throat IIRC. As you say, largest purrrrr-er is cheetah, things like lion, tiger, jaguar, leopard all roar.

 elsewhere 10 Jan 2025

They capture appears to have been where they were released and where straw bedding was found.

The straw bedding they were transported in was contained porcupine quills, bizarre, but there can't be many people who had a lynx or two and a porcupine.

Post edited at 15:04
 girlymonkey 10 Jan 2025
In reply to JLS:

I wonder how many more are going to turn up!

It strikes me as an odd place to do a release though if you really wanted them not to be found. The Cairngorms are hardly remote or quiet. I would go somewhere far north west, or down a random Argyll peninsula, or somewhere in the borders. Makes me wonder if they are doing it more to get attention to the discussion about lynx reintroduction rather than to actually get a wild population.

 Frank R. 10 Jan 2025
In reply to girlymonkey:

I'd much assume the media attention as the only motive. And while I don't exactly agree with it, up to the point to thinking it might even harm the whole rewilding cause, at least they seemed to make it easy to capture the poor "cats"...

 Lankyman 10 Jan 2025
In reply to Doug:

It looks like the second pair have come in from the cold

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy7jpzr252o

Obviously, being nice and toasty beats wandering round the snowy woods


 girlymonkey 10 Jan 2025
In reply to Frank R.:

The more I think about it, could it be people who are against the reintroduction who are doing this? They are releasing animals which are easy to catch, in an environment where they will definitely be seen and caught quickly, and get negative press about it being irresponsible. Almost a subtle smear campaign against the reintroduction arguments by making it look like those wanting reintroduction are irresponsible?

1
 abcdefg 10 Jan 2025
In reply to girlymonkey:

> The more I think about it, could it be people who are against the reintroduction who are doing this? 

Who breeds and/or has the animals to start with? It must be a fairly niche pursuit.

 girlymonkey 10 Jan 2025
In reply to abcdefg:

Yeah, good question! And maybe we will never find the answer? 

 mondite 10 Jan 2025
In reply to Frank R.:

> I'd much assume the media attention as the only motive.

Given the comments from mountain rescue (quoted by elsewhere above) and in this article

“They had definitely been illegally released because they were 100 yards from a pile of straw bedding that contained dead chicks and, interestingly, porcupine quills – the bedding was peppered with porcupine quills,” he said.

“They were very tame and you could see they had been released from a nearby layby because there was the straw there too. They were only 100 yards from that spot and the road. I don’t think they would have survived in the wild.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/jan/09/two-lynx-captured-after...

I am tending towards someone had a bunch of rather exotic pets but is no longer able to support them so came up with the great plan of dumping them in the middle of the Scottish winter.

Curious they were dumped on Povlsens land though.

 mondite 10 Jan 2025
In reply to abcdefg:

> Who breeds and/or has the animals to start with? It must be a fairly niche pursuit.

Bornfree have a partial list based on the dangerous animals register. I am guessing though whoever released these isnt on it since I am sure the councils will be looking over their lists and paying visits.

https://www.bornfree.org.uk/dwamap/

 veteye 10 Jan 2025
In reply to Lankyman:

Your cat has got things well organised, and is right in his approach; but I think that the plural of Lynx, may be Lynx(?).

 Lankyman 10 Jan 2025
In reply to veteye:

> Your cat has got things well organised, and is right in his approach; but I think that the plural of Lynx, may be Lynx(?).

I think lynx and lynxes are both acceptable plurals? Anyway, for a cat he's quite good at spelling. Fox/foxes, sphinx/sphinxes, box/boxes, tax/taxes etc.

 Sealwife 10 Jan 2025
In reply to elsewhere:

I wonder if it’s nothing to do with rewilding but that someone has been keeping them as exotic pets and no longer wants to or is able to look after them.

It’s probably not the first time it’s happened.  About twenty years ago there was a spate of sightings of a big cat near where I lived in Aberdeenshire.  Was hugely sceptical until my equally sceptical husband saw it one evening.  

I’m surprised the lynx were so easily caught.  Would have thought some sort of hunting and hiding instinct would have kicked-in when they were released.

 65 10 Jan 2025
In reply to Frank R.:

> "Buy two, get two more for free!"

> Seriously – from the Beeb video – those are totally domesticated, unafraid of people and totally unsuited to live in the wild. Such a rogue release is only hurting the whole rewilding cause, IMHO.

I strongly suspect this is why they were released. Imagine if one of them injured someone or killed a sheep.

2
 veteye 11 Jan 2025
In reply to 65:

I am not sure if private zoos are under obligation to microchip their collection animals: Perhaps something like this would prompt the legislation for that to be the case.

 Philip 11 Jan 2025
In reply to DaveHK:

> Probably unwanted Christmas presents. Remember, a lynx is for life.

 remember when a can of Lynx Africa was a normal present

 Tom Valentine 11 Jan 2025
In reply to mondite:

Seems like one of them has died during the night

 Mr Lopez 11 Jan 2025
In reply to Sealwife:

> I’m surprised the lynx were so easily caught.  Would have thought some sort of hunting and hiding instinct would have kicked-in when they were released.

It's a work in progress https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/_media/img/750x0/4EZLX6HYV847ASVZ8IH2.j...

 timjones 11 Jan 2025
In reply to ExiledScot:

"Domestic" cats have a pretty big range when they hunt.

If we had Lynx in our neck of the woods I would be very surprised if our farm cats didn't encounter them.

 alibrightman 11 Jan 2025
In reply to girlymonkey:

> ... It strikes me as an odd place to do a release though if you really wanted them not to be found. ...

Exactly. Given where they were released, just across the Spey from the Kincraig zoo. I think the person releasing them wanted them to be found. 

 mondite 11 Jan 2025
In reply to alibrightman:

> Exactly. Given where they were released, just across the Spey from the Kincraig zoo. I think the person releasing them wanted them to be found. 

Also apparently released on Povlsens land. Whilst they have fans and opponents in conservation circles they are very much pro rewilding vs some estates where I reckon the keepers would have just killed them after checking to make sure no one was watching/tracking them in which case they might take them alive.

I am tending towards a private collection who could no longer look after them and decided to dump them somewhere they thought they would be quickly identified, captured and then taken care off but still, as opposed to handing them over to a zoo, would allow the "owners" to walk away and avoid any awkward questions about why they werent registered and what other animals they are keeping.

 alibrightman 12 Jan 2025
In reply to mondite:

> I am tending towards a private collection who ... decided to dump them somewhere they thought they would be quickly identified, captured and then taken care of

I agree.


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