Men always want that little bit more. Women say, "let's just be friends". Add climbing into the mix and it can get even more complicated with all those emotions and hormones washing around in risky situations. Terry Andrews describes a day out climbing with Suzanne in Yosemite but what is it she really wants and can Terry deliver the goods?
NEXT WEEK: Mark Davies and Chris Jones, two UKC.com registered climbers recently climbed the classic HVS, Moonraker on the imposing Berry Head. In next weeks UKC article they recount the story of their ascent with lots of useful beta, a route description, a topo, a drop of anticipation and a pinch of fear.
UKC.com welcomes submissions for articles of all kinds; crag profiles, accounts of classic routes, gear and media reviews, fiction, historical, humour, commentory, epics, details of international climbing destinations. Email firstname.lastname@example.org
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
> UKC.com welcomes submissions for articles of all kinds; crag profiles, accounts of classic routes, gear and media reviews, fiction, historical, humour, commentory, epics, details of international climbing destinations. Email email@example.com
How much will it cost me to get an article on UKC?
I've enjoyed the other articles but that seemed to be rather pointless. It might have worked better if the author had emphasised the climbing a bit more, but it seems like a poor attempt at titillation as it currently stands.
> (In reply to CJD) agree, I thought it was very poor, a climbing equivalent of Mills & Boon
I didn't put you down as a reader of Mills & Boon Doug! Especially a critic of that fine genre! But seriously we are working hard at UKC.com to present a diverse range of articles that will appeal to UKC.com's diverse readership which will include trip reports, features on classic routes, boulder problems, ideas for climbing trips, reviews, interviews etc. You may dislike one, not your cup of tea, but others may rock your boat. We are slowly building up a database of great articles submitted by climbers who frequent UKC.com (there's between 80 - 100,000 of them who visit each month) as you will see most weeks.
We are after submissions. One thing that has been lost in recent years in the climbing media is diversity. Most of the magazines these days have a handful of writers and photographers, usually on a retainer, that write exclusively for them. The chances of getting published in the magazines is a lot slimmer that it used to be. Which is a shame as I believe most have an interesting story to tell, a climb or a cliff to describe. You only need to look at the Photos on UKC too see what a great wealth of photographic talent there is out there - and yes some who are learning. Further we will work closely with any authors...suggestions, edits etc to get their work ready for publication.
UKC articles editor
sandyman09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan: does she get it? can be arsed to read it you see.
In reply to Mick Ryan:
read Mills & Boon ? moi !
But compare that piece with the (in some ways similar)tale by Rick Sylvester 'the Douche' (don't know where it was originally published but it was included in the 'Games Climbers Play' anthology)and I'm sure you'll agree the writing is poor
Hope you find better, how about reprinting some of the classic pieces out of Crags or Mountain ?
It was a nice day so me and my mates went climbing and we went to almscliff and it was very sunny so we did low man easy way and you could see cows and things in the distance but there was also cowshit at the bottom of the crag and I got my 5.10s dirty so I had to clean them with Alans T-shirt which was really funny but then I got half way up and couldn't get any gear in and then I started panicking and dropped all my 1-10 wallnuts which made me panic even more and my legs started shaking and people started laughing 'cos it's such an easy climb and that got me very upset and I started to cry which made me even more upset and I wasn't enjoying it at all....
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
> It was a nice day so me and my mates went climbing and we went to almscliff and it was very sunny so we did low man easy way and you could see cows and things in the distance but there was also cowshit at the bottom of the crag and I got my 5.10s dirty so I had to clean them with Alans T-shirt which was really funny but then I got half way up and couldn't get any gear in and then I started panicking and dropped all my 1-10 wallnuts which made me panic even more and my legs started shaking and people started laughing 'cos it's such an easy climb and that got me very upset and I started to cry which made me even more upset and I wasn't enjoying it at all....
> What do you think of it so far?
> (In reply to Doug)
> I didn't put you down as a reader of Mills & Boon Doug! Especially a critic of that fine genre! But seriously we are working hard at UKC.com to present a diverse range of articles that will appeal to UKC.com's diverse readership > Mick
> UKC articles editor
This article would suit most posters on this website, so well done. In fact you should commission more of them.
In reply to Mick Ryan:
Its a good point. All mags have become so dominated by adverts and sponsorship that they simply don't reflect climbers anymore.
Last copy of Climb was an perfect example. I like Fowlers attitude as most climbers do but thats just an advert for his next book.
Another summit article on Everest? No simply an advert for the commercial outfit they organised it.
Stevie Hastons article... probably one of his worst tired efforts to date but like well hey, he's sponsored.
The large nuts small nuts article for gawds sake. why no just print the price lists and be don.... oops they did!
Great that you're offering an outlet for a many tallented but never exposed efforts. Please just don't go the way of the mags.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
> No wonder women get put off climbing! Luckily sad gits like that don't actually exist.
> Do they?
Funny you have to ask Alison. Most men are like Terry, it's quite normal and not sad at all.
> Why don't you run a writing comp Mick? Then everyone who thinks they can do better than that will get a chance to prove it.
The biggest gap is for profiles of cliffs and classic routes, both at home and abroad....ice, grit, long, mountain, sport etc. Suggestions of what and where to climb with people who have first hand experience. There will be a template up soon so that people can easily contribute.
Chris Corbett09 Sep 2005
Sorry you Brits can't seem to enjoy a short account of a typical American dirt bag climber's dreams. So what if it was just a bit of fluff, does every submission have to qualify for the Literary Monthly? And as far as "more about the climbing" - what do you need to know about the East Buttress of Middle Cathedral Rock that hasn't already been written decades ago - it's one of the "50 Crowded Climbs" for god's sake. The off-route pitch to the ledge was the only climbing worth describing.
Way to go, Chris! Show some of the ego that makes Yanks popular only when contributing to a distant economy. Sadly, yes, my father moved us to the colonies when I was young, but I still learned "God Save The Queen" before I knew "God Bless America." I hope all will forgive the attitude, not everyone understands being honest but meaning no harm or belittling.
It's rare to hear anything negative directed towards Mr. Andrews, locally, as he is one of the most generous and caring persons one will ever hope to meet. Terry is, as you've pointed out, not a professional writer. He is a geologist / hydrologist whose main writings consist of proposals and findings, not story telling. In all honesty, how many other men would openly tell a story of hope and rejection such as this?
Thank you for giving my friend some 'literary fame' to fill an otherwise dull week!
Seriously, I just spent 3 days partnering a very attractive young lady on climbs in Cornwall and had nothing on my mind except the climbing and some excellent banter/ more serious talking with someone who I consider to be a good friend.
> But compare that piece with the (in some ways similar)tale by Rick Sylvester 'the Douche' (don't know where it was originally published but it was included in the 'Games Climbers Play' anthology)and I'm sure you'll agree the writing is poor
> (In reply to Tiggs)
> The events in the story took place in 1980, and maybe should be read in that context? I think/hope the climbing scene has moved on considerably since then on both sides of the Atlantic
If the article had been written in the 1980s you could read it in the context, but not only because the events have taken place there. When somebody today writes in that style about any event no matter when it took place it means he hasn't moved on (or at least the narrator/writer persona hasn't moved on)
Tom Fuller12 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan: Is this a knee jerk reaction to the customer feedback survey telling UKC it needs more articles?
Purrleeeze Mick! It's corny to the last degree; even to the extent of having the "macho" bloke succeed on the hard bit where the "pathetic" woman failed. If it was written in a humerous style so that the bloke was more obviously laughing at himself it would be a bit better.
It's not the author's fault. He can obviously write and writers have to experiment sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't work with the readers, that's all. An author can't always judge how any particular set of readers will react to their work; but it's crucial that the editor can. I hope the author isn't upset or put off writing. It's hard not to take criticism of one's work personally. The author should be able to trust that if it's been published it's because it's good enough. In this case I think that's brken down..
Well it's not a very nice way of portraying a fellow climber. If he'd been climbing with a bloke would he have made a point of saying he led the crux whilst the other guy struggled? It's not as though he went into a lot of detail about the rest of the climb is it?
> (In reply to The Crow)
> Maybe. I thought the self-reflective part at the end was the best bit and did shed a better light on the bloke.
He's a dude Alison, not a bloke, nor in this piece is he a new age dude, or New Dude (new man in UK parlance). I liked it because firstly because the article kept my attention to the end, that's my first rule I have to be engaged. Second I found it interesting because it describes the male-female climbing partner dynamic from the point-of-view of the writer, Terry. Thirdly, it's honest. Fourthy it is so 'Starsky and Hutch', so late 1970's early 1980's Yosemite climbing. Yes you could describe it as a tad cheezy, hence the graphic. No it's not a literary masterpiece and has no pretensions to be that.
You are right to point out his reflection at the end. "At the time, there were very few women that climbed or even associated with climbers. Although Suzanne was from Oklahoma, she and her kind were a complete enigma to us." I get the impression that Terry has quite a few women climbing partners these days and it would be interesting to hear a follow-up piece written today about a recent experience.
As regards the writer's attitude to women. You cannot judge an attitude by one piece of writing.
And I'll say it again, as I did above, yes thoughts like Terry's do enter a males head when he is climbing with a woman (and may I add vica-versa)...not always, sometimes, not for everyone.
I liked this sentence too, when the horny dog just realised she just wanted to climb, "I was stunned. Like the slug I was, I pulled in my horns, and would have slimed myself inside the crack behind the ledge, if it had only been big enough." That'll serve him right for jumping to conclusions.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan) Perhaps 'In The 1980's' should have been included in the title to bring the piece into context...
> A perspective on the male/female climbing relationship in the 21st Century from both the male and female angle might be more relevant to today's climbers.
It's a period piece Tiggs, a how we were retrospective. Oh and how we have moved on?
"Note: This is a true story. In 1980 a small army of Oklahomans had descended upon Yosemite Valley. At the time, there were very few women that climbed or even associated with climbers. Although Suzanne was from Oklahoma, she and her kind were a complete enigma to us."
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
> the "pathetic" woman failed.
they're you're words and I don't think the article presented what happened in that way - the author acknowledges that the story he's written is based on what happened to him and the honesty comes through in the article.
That it's not relevant to today is not relevant given it was an account of a particular time and place.
If think most guys who were very devoted climbers (i.e. to the exclusion of just about everything else!) at that time, late 70's early 80's, would relate very closely to Terrys story - I did, though they may not admit to it for fear of being called a chauvanistic dinosaur.