UKC

UKC article: friendship, love, sex, and desire in Yosemite

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 Michael Ryan 09 Sep 2005
Men always want that little bit more. Women say, "let's just be friends". Add climbing into the mix and it can get even more complicated with all those emotions and hormones washing around in risky situations. Terry Andrews describes a day out climbing with Suzanne in Yosemite but what is it she really wants and can Terry deliver the goods?

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=131
 Michael Ryan 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:

NEXT WEEK: Mark Davies and Chris Jones, two UKC.com registered climbers recently climbed the classic HVS, Moonraker on the imposing Berry Head. In next weeks UKC article they recount the story of their ascent with lots of useful beta, a route description, a topo, a drop of anticipation and a pinch of fear.

UKC.com welcomes submissions for articles of all kinds; crag profiles, accounts of classic routes, gear and media reviews, fiction, historical, humour, commentory, epics, details of international climbing destinations. Email articles@ukclimbing.com
In reply to Mick Ryan: "UKC.com welcomes submissions for articles of all kinds; unexplained ramblings, accounts of classic routes, overly verbose crap that no one would publish, fication, epics. etc."

LD
 Michael Ryan 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Lurking Dave:

Submit away Dave and we'll help with the editing.

Mick
 Norrie Muir 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
> UKC.com welcomes submissions for articles of all kinds; crag profiles, accounts of classic routes, gear and media reviews, fiction, historical, humour, commentory, epics, details of international climbing destinations. Email articles@ukclimbing.com

Dear Mick

How much will it cost me to get an article on UKC?

Norrie
In reply to Mick Ryan: No desire to, I don't have the time or the skills required to create worthwhile prose.

LD
 Michael Ryan 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Norrie Muir:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
> [...]
>
> Dear Mick
>
> How much will it cost me to get an article on UKC?


All of your soul, half of your heart and an eyeball.
 Michael Ryan 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Lurking Dave:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan) No desire to, I don't have the time or the skills required to create worthwhile prose.


Your profile words are interesting. It's just the time thing!

 meekon 09 Sep 2005
This was a deeply uninteresting story. Please stop. Could be shortened to: I didn't get any.
Dru 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:

"pure cheese"
 kyt341k 09 Sep 2005
In reply to meekon:

Hear hear
 CJD 09 Sep 2005
In reply to kyt341k:

thirded.

I've enjoyed the other articles but that seemed to be rather pointless. It might have worked better if the author had emphasised the climbing a bit more, but it seems like a poor attempt at titillation as it currently stands.

UKC articles are usually much better than this.
 Doug 09 Sep 2005
In reply to CJD: agree, I thought it was very poor, a climbing equivalent of Mills & Boon
RJC 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan: Why don't you just redirect everyone to http://www.rockclimbing.com/ and so they can read them there? The Internet and all that.
 Owen W-G 09 Sep 2005
I found the story as frustrating as our hero found his experience. Couldn't she have just given out for him on the ledge, or couldn't the author have just lied for the sake of our titilation?
 Duncan Irving 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:

What a stomach churner. 1/10 for spinning it out for so long...
 Michael Ryan 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Doug:
> (In reply to CJD) agree, I thought it was very poor, a climbing equivalent of Mills & Boon

I didn't put you down as a reader of Mills & Boon Doug! Especially a critic of that fine genre! But seriously we are working hard at UKC.com to present a diverse range of articles that will appeal to UKC.com's diverse readership which will include trip reports, features on classic routes, boulder problems, ideas for climbing trips, reviews, interviews etc. You may dislike one, not your cup of tea, but others may rock your boat. We are slowly building up a database of great articles submitted by climbers who frequent UKC.com (there's between 80 - 100,000 of them who visit each month) as you will see most weeks.

We are after submissions. One thing that has been lost in recent years in the climbing media is diversity. Most of the magazines these days have a handful of writers and photographers, usually on a retainer, that write exclusively for them. The chances of getting published in the magazines is a lot slimmer that it used to be. Which is a shame as I believe most have an interesting story to tell, a climb or a cliff to describe. You only need to look at the Photos on UKC too see what a great wealth of photographic talent there is out there - and yes some who are learning. Further we will work closely with any authors...suggestions, edits etc to get their work ready for publication.

Mick
UKC articles editor

sandyman 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan: does she get it? can be arsed to read it you see.
 Doug 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:
read Mills & Boon ? moi !
But compare that piece with the (in some ways similar)tale by Rick Sylvester 'the Douche' (don't know where it was originally published but it was included in the 'Games Climbers Play' anthology)and I'm sure you'll agree the writing is poor

Hope you find better, how about reprinting some of the classic pieces out of Crags or Mountain ?
In reply to Mick Ryan:

It was a nice day so me and my mates went climbing and we went to almscliff and it was very sunny so we did low man easy way and you could see cows and things in the distance but there was also cowshit at the bottom of the crag and I got my 5.10s dirty so I had to clean them with Alans T-shirt which was really funny but then I got half way up and couldn't get any gear in and then I started panicking and dropped all my 1-10 wallnuts which made me panic even more and my legs started shaking and people started laughing 'cos it's such an easy climb and that got me very upset and I started to cry which made me even more upset and I wasn't enjoying it at all....

What do you think of it so far?
 CJD 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Ridge:

a bit of careful editing/polishing and I reckon you'll have a real gem on your hands.

No, really.


Sandyman: I think you'll find she's what's colloquially termed a 'pricktease'.
simmo 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:

nice parody
 Michael Ryan 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Ridge:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
>
> It was a nice day so me and my mates went climbing and we went to almscliff and it was very sunny so we did low man easy way and you could see cows and things in the distance but there was also cowshit at the bottom of the crag and I got my 5.10s dirty so I had to clean them with Alans T-shirt which was really funny but then I got half way up and couldn't get any gear in and then I started panicking and dropped all my 1-10 wallnuts which made me panic even more and my legs started shaking and people started laughing 'cos it's such an easy climb and that got me very upset and I started to cry which made me even more upset and I wasn't enjoying it at all....
>
> What do you think of it so far?

Keep going....don't take a breath.

sandyman 09 Sep 2005
In reply to CJD: glad i didn't read it then, drivel
sandyman 09 Sep 2005
In reply to CJD: nah that bean flicking between left luggage doesn't really do it. Now, a dominant doris in a pvc catsuit, thats different.
 Norrie Muir 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:
> (In reply to Doug)
> I didn't put you down as a reader of Mills & Boon Doug! Especially a critic of that fine genre! But seriously we are working hard at UKC.com to present a diverse range of articles that will appeal to UKC.com's diverse readership > Mick
> UKC articles editor

Dear Mick

This article would suit most posters on this website, so well done. In fact you should commission more of them.

Norrie
 Michael Ryan 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Norrie Muir:

That's what I thought Norrie, especially the frequency of "RT Coupling" threads in The Chat, some seem quite obsessed.
 CJD 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:

but that's the chat room! it's like a tabloid gossip column! we (well, I) like slightly more intelligent things in the 'articles' section.

and I'd watch out for that Nidderdale Boulderer character. I think that sitting in his shop all alone all day is turning his mind to unhealthy pursuits.
sandyman 09 Sep 2005
In reply to CJD: hot and sweaty i would imagine.
In reply to Mick Ryan:

Sorry Mick, that story was pretty poor . . .

For one I would be able to spot the lycra shorts under the tights in the first place and would have got so het up about the ledge change in the first place . . .
Tim Gardener 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan: John Long did it sooooo much better with "A fool and his Money" - I'm sure you know it well
WillinLA 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Ridge:

>What do you think of it so far?

I think it sounds like a Jerry Moffat article. Since his stuff gets published I don't see why this shouldn't.

If I ever paid for climbing magazines, I'd be disgusted...
 Max factor 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:

Hmmmm. It says "photo: Chris Craggs". I'd always imagined he looked older than that.
 ANDY HUDSON 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Ridge:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
>
> my legs started shaking and people started laughing >

Some mates you've got!.
 Gary Smith 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:
Its a good point. All mags have become so dominated by adverts and sponsorship that they simply don't reflect climbers anymore.
Last copy of Climb was an perfect example. I like Fowlers attitude as most climbers do but thats just an advert for his next book.
Another summit article on Everest? No simply an advert for the commercial outfit they organised it.
Stevie Hastons article... probably one of his worst tired efforts to date but like well hey, he's sponsored.
The large nuts small nuts article for gawds sake. why no just print the price lists and be don.... oops they did!

Great that you're offering an outlet for a many tallented but never exposed efforts. Please just don't go the way of the mags.
sandyman 09 Sep 2005
In reply to CJD: not if it were crotchless. oooh
 Norrie Muir 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
> That's what I thought Norrie, especially the frequency of "RT Coupling" threads in The Chat, some seem quite obsessed.

Dear Mick

It is the nearest they get to real sex, just like reading about climbing.

Norrie
In reply to CJD:
> (In reply to Ridge)
>
> a bit of careful editing/polishing and I reckon you'll have a real gem on your hands.

And to think, without RT and the encouragement of your good self my artistic talents would never have been nurtured....
In reply to Mick Ryan:

No wonder women get put off climbing! Luckily sad gits like that don't actually exist.

Do they?


Why don't you run a writing comp Mick? Then everyone who thinks they can do better than that will get a chance to prove it.
 Michael Ryan 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Alison Stockwell:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
>
> No wonder women get put off climbing! Luckily sad gits like that don't actually exist.

> Do they?

Funny you have to ask Alison. Most men are like Terry, it's quite normal and not sad at all.

>
> Why don't you run a writing comp Mick? Then everyone who thinks they can do better than that will get a chance to prove it.

The biggest gap is for profiles of cliffs and classic routes, both at home and abroad....ice, grit, long, mountain, sport etc. Suggestions of what and where to climb with people who have first hand experience. There will be a template up soon so that people can easily contribute.

M

Chris Corbett 09 Sep 2005
Sorry you Brits can't seem to enjoy a short account of a typical American dirt bag climber's dreams. So what if it was just a bit of fluff, does every submission have to qualify for the Literary Monthly? And as far as "more about the climbing" - what do you need to know about the East Buttress of Middle Cathedral Rock that hasn't already been written decades ago - it's one of the "50 Crowded Climbs" for god's sake. The off-route pitch to the ledge was the only climbing worth describing.
babe 09 Sep 2005
In reply to Chris Corbett:

Way to go, Chris! Show some of the ego that makes Yanks popular only when contributing to a distant economy. Sadly, yes, my father moved us to the colonies when I was young, but I still learned "God Save The Queen" before I knew "God Bless America." I hope all will forgive the attitude, not everyone understands being honest but meaning no harm or belittling.

It's rare to hear anything negative directed towards Mr. Andrews, locally, as he is one of the most generous and caring persons one will ever hope to meet. Terry is, as you've pointed out, not a professional writer. He is a geologist / hydrologist whose main writings consist of proposals and findings, not story telling. In all honesty, how many other men would openly tell a story of hope and rejection such as this?

Thank you for giving my friend some 'literary fame' to fill an otherwise dull week!
 Tiggs 10 Sep 2005
In reply to CJD: Agree and fourthed. Its not just titillation for the boys, its off putting for a woman wanting to climb in a mixed pair to read such 'stuff'.

Should women assume that no matter how seriously they take their climbing. their male partners will always have 'sex on the brain' rather than the climbing?

That in itself is insulting to men.
 sebastien 10 Sep 2005
In reply to Tiggs:

>
> Should women assume that no matter how seriously they take their climbing. their male partners will always have 'sex on the brain' rather than the climbing?
>

Well, depends how good she looks.
 Rob Naylor 10 Sep 2005
In reply to Tiggs:
> > Should women assume that no matter how seriously they take their climbing. their male partners will always have 'sex on the brain' rather than the climbing?

Well you know that *I* do, Tiggs

 Rob Naylor 10 Sep 2005
In reply to Tiggs:

Seriously, I just spent 3 days partnering a very attractive young lady on climbs in Cornwall and had nothing on my mind except the climbing and some excellent banter/ more serious talking with someone who I consider to be a good friend.
 Rob Naylor 10 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:

Hmm, not the most enjoyable article I've read on RT!
 Dave Stelmach 10 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan: He should have given her one anyway!
 kevin stephens 10 Sep 2005
In reply to Tiggs:

The events in the story took place in 1980, and maybe should be read in that context? I think/hope the climbing scene has moved on considerably since then on both sides of the Atlantic
 Michael Ryan 10 Sep 2005
In reply to Tiggs:

> Should women assume that no matter how seriously they take their climbing. their male partners will always have 'sex on the brain' rather than the climbing?


No of course not but sometimes. It's a sometimes this, sometimes that thing as many things are. You know like sometimes you are happy, sometimes not, sometimes sad, sometimes not etc.

I fail to see why it is insulting to men.

I enjoyed reading Terry's piece, passed it by someone else who thought it good. We are of course aware that reactions and tastes vary,and rightly so.

Mick

sloper 11 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan: Mick that was third rate drivel of the very worst kind.

I just hope I'm never so bored that I ever finish the article.

If you're desparate I'll do you a bit on middle aged grey bouldering in Yorkshire. (No youths / muscles involved)
 Swirly 11 Sep 2005
In reply to Doug:
>
> But compare that piece with the (in some ways similar)tale by Rick Sylvester 'the Douche' (don't know where it was originally published but it was included in the 'Games Climbers Play' anthology)and I'm sure you'll agree the writing is poor
>


That's pretty much exactly what I thought.


And the guy in "Douche" got some.
 Michael Ryan 11 Sep 2005
In reply to sloper:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)

> I'll do you a bit on middle aged grey bouldering in Yorkshire. (No youths / muscles involved)

You're on, does it involve Sir Francis de Hooland, High Bouldering Priest of Nidderdale, as well as yourself?

Try and keep it clean.

violentViolet 11 Sep 2005
In reply to kevin stephens:
> (In reply to Tiggs)
>
> The events in the story took place in 1980, and maybe should be read in that context? I think/hope the climbing scene has moved on considerably since then on both sides of the Atlantic

If the article had been written in the 1980s you could read it in the context, but not only because the events have taken place there. When somebody today writes in that style about any event no matter when it took place it means he hasn't moved on (or at least the narrator/writer persona hasn't moved on)

Tom Fuller 12 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan: Is this a knee jerk reaction to the customer feedback survey telling UKC it needs more articles?

Cheers,

Tom.
 hutchm 12 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:

Your 'montage' is hilarious! It's like a 70s car advert.
 The Crow 12 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:

I liked it. It made me laugh.
 Michael Ryan 12 Sep 2005
In reply to Tom Fuller:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan) Is this a knee jerk reaction to the customer feedback survey telling UKC it needs more articles?


Knee-jerk?

I think we've had a few recently.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/

 Michael Ryan 12 Sep 2005
In reply to hutchm:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
>
> Your 'montage' is hilarious! It's like a 70s car advert.

Inspired by the boys at http://www.fatsloperaction.com/

Tom Fuller 12 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:

> I think we've had a few recently.

That's what I mean, it's clear that you're making the effort, but it needs to be quality stuff.

Cheers,

Tom.

 Michael Ryan 12 Sep 2005
In reply to Tom Fuller:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
>
> [...]
>
> That's what I mean, it's clear that you're making the effort, but it needs to be quality stuff.


It is quality stuff. But don't expect every weeks article to appeal or be appreciated by 100% of UKC's readers.

We have quite a diverse line-up planned.
In reply to Mick Ryan:

Purrleeeze Mick! It's corny to the last degree; even to the extent of having the "macho" bloke succeed on the hard bit where the "pathetic" woman failed. If it was written in a humerous style so that the bloke was more obviously laughing at himself it would be a bit better.
It's not the author's fault. He can obviously write and writers have to experiment sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't work with the readers, that's all. An author can't always judge how any particular set of readers will react to their work; but it's crucial that the editor can. I hope the author isn't upset or put off writing. It's hard not to take criticism of one's work personally. The author should be able to trust that if it's been published it's because it's good enough. In this case I think that's brken down..
 The Crow 12 Sep 2005
In reply to Alison Stockwell:
> Purrleeeze Mick! It's corny to the last degree; even to the extent of having the "macho" bloke succeed on the hard bit where the "pathetic" woman failed.

Um I think it's semi auto-biographical... if that's what happened then that's what he'd write. Or should he just make up something more accessible to the female palate?

If you found out he did just that then wouldn't you hate being patronised?
In reply to The Crow:

Well it's not a very nice way of portraying a fellow climber. If he'd been climbing with a bloke would he have made a point of saying he led the crux whilst the other guy struggled? It's not as though he went into a lot of detail about the rest of the climb is it?
 The Crow 12 Sep 2005
In reply to Alison Stockwell:

I rather think that's the point. He's trying to impress her and that's his chance... corny yes, but from the conclusion I think he knows it?

And I always tell everyone when I lead a pitch a mate struggled on.
In reply to The Crow:

Maybe. I thought the self-reflective part at the end was the best bit and did shed a better light on the bloke.
 Michael Ryan 12 Sep 2005
In reply to Alison Stockwell:
> (In reply to The Crow)
>
> Maybe. I thought the self-reflective part at the end was the best bit and did shed a better light on the bloke.

He's a dude Alison, not a bloke, nor in this piece is he a new age dude, or New Dude (new man in UK parlance). I liked it because firstly because the article kept my attention to the end, that's my first rule I have to be engaged. Second I found it interesting because it describes the male-female climbing partner dynamic from the point-of-view of the writer, Terry. Thirdly, it's honest. Fourthy it is so 'Starsky and Hutch', so late 1970's early 1980's Yosemite climbing. Yes you could describe it as a tad cheezy, hence the graphic. No it's not a literary masterpiece and has no pretensions to be that.

You are right to point out his reflection at the end. "At the time, there were very few women that climbed or even associated with climbers. Although Suzanne was from Oklahoma, she and her kind were a complete enigma to us." I get the impression that Terry has quite a few women climbing partners these days and it would be interesting to hear a follow-up piece written today about a recent experience.

As regards the writer's attitude to women. You cannot judge an attitude by one piece of writing.

And I'll say it again, as I did above, yes thoughts like Terry's do enter a males head when he is climbing with a woman (and may I add vica-versa)...not always, sometimes, not for everyone.

I liked this sentence too, when the horny dog just realised she just wanted to climb, "I was stunned. Like the slug I was, I pulled in my horns, and would have slimed myself inside the crack behind the ledge, if it had only been big enough." That'll serve him right for jumping to conclusions.

Mick

 Tiggs 12 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan: Perhaps 'In The 1980's' should have been included in the title to bring the piece into context...

A perspective on the male/female climbing relationship in the 21st Century from both the male and female angle might be more relevant to today's climbers.
 Michael Ryan 12 Sep 2005
In reply to Tiggs:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan) Perhaps 'In The 1980's' should have been included in the title to bring the piece into context...
>
> A perspective on the male/female climbing relationship in the 21st Century from both the male and female angle might be more relevant to today's climbers.

It's a period piece Tiggs, a how we were retrospective. Oh and how we have moved on?

"Note: This is a true story. In 1980 a small army of Oklahomans had descended upon Yosemite Valley. At the time, there were very few women that climbed or even associated with climbers. Although Suzanne was from Oklahoma, she and her kind were a complete enigma to us."

MarkHG 13 Sep 2005
In reply to Alison Stockwell:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
>
> the "pathetic" woman failed.

they're you're words and I don't think the article presented what happened in that way - the author acknowledges that the story he's written is based on what happened to him and the honesty comes through in the article.

That it's not relevant to today is not relevant given it was an account of a particular time and place.

If think most guys who were very devoted climbers (i.e. to the exclusion of just about everything else!) at that time, late 70's early 80's, would relate very closely to Terrys story - I did, though they may not admit to it for fear of being called a chauvanistic dinosaur.

 Alun 13 Sep 2005
In reply to sloper:

> Mick that was third rate drivel of the very worst kind.

The vast majority of the stuff written on these forums is nothing but drivel, but you still read it. Unfortunately, so do I.

Mick, I thought it was drivel too, but sometimes drivel can be funny, and I enjoyed reading it.
Rob Leinau 13 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan:

Mick, you're doing a fine job of defending an historic piece on the merits, and not caving in to hyper-PC revisionism! I agree it's a fun piece of climbing history and nice and personal.
 moo 15 Sep 2005
In reply to Mick Ryan: I type the word porn into google and end up here.

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