UKC

Pete Whittaker and Jordan Buys have been active at Earl Crag, with a new E7 and a repeat of French Duke - E9.

"We could hardly bear to look as he clawed his way up the final few moves, facing a certain ground fall from 10 metres..."

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=52494

In reply to UKC News:

Great efforts, but think the terminology seems a bit muddled:

"few days of top rope inspection"

and "working the moves on abseil"

surely you inspect on abseils and work moves on top ropes, a few days is a lot of inspection...

In reply to Sargey:
Glad to see you have focused on the important bits.

In reply to Sargey:

Quite easy to work moves on a single ab rope, especially with a Gri-gri - fairly essential if you're on your own.

An hour or two after work over a few days isn't alot, or do you know more?

Enty

In reply to UKC News:

Are boulder mats now considered trad protection?

In reply to pigeonjim:

Who cares?


Well Done Pete and Jordan.

In reply to pigeonjim:

Let us know what style you do it in when you go and try and repeat it...

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Ok so climbing harder means you can move the goals posts? Dont be so elitist.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:
ps Adam just been thinking about your comment. I wasnt having a go at these climbers or belittling their good achievement. I just asked an honest question.

In reply to pigeonjim:

I am not being elitist. It's all relative though. The pad is used as the gear is rubbish.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Ok so pads = trad gear in that terms.
I wonder what people would think about climbers putting a pad under a severe in the peak.

Also suggesting I am not able to ask questions until I attempt a route that I will never be talented or fit enough to try is being elitist, no question.

In reply to pigeonjim:


Only an idiot would give a f***. Wrong thread for this discussion, start a new one.

jk

In reply to pigeonjim:

Your initial post IMHO was a bit of a snipe. Hence my snipe back. Whatever. Happy climbing.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:
You read to much into a simple question but im sure climbing harder allows you to do that!

In reply to pigeonjim:


I would think
a) there is a person who has more care for his ankles than he does for an ethical ascent

b)some 'tard on ukc will probably have a field day on that.

In reply to archiecb:

Very true. UKC is fully of people that forget ethics are personal and climbing has no set rules.

In reply to UKC News:

Good work. Looks like some awesome climbing on the E9, rather necky too.

In reply to pigeonjim:

bye the same logic a helmet is "trad gear".

Trad gear, in my book, is anything which does not damage or remain in place in the rock, and which the climber places himself on a climbing attempt.

Pads certainly would qualify as “Trad” in that respect.

And I have more respect for someone who attempts to minimise any chance of injury, in this non destructive way, harmless way, than someone who does not, out of a misplaced sense of tradition.

Oh, and I have far more respct for anyone who tries to maintain a sense of adventure through trad climbing, than those who bolt and peg routes into submission.

In reply to pigeonjim:

Read what Adam wrote. The pad is used cos the gear is rubbish.

In reply to pigeonjim:


"Better not do that - There's always the possibility that some asshole will be offended. Isn't there?"

Enty

In reply to stroppygob:

My thoughts too.
I have no issue at all with the boulder mat use but I know people on UKC who do.

In reply to pigeonjim:

Some climbers in the UK have issues with bouldering mat use, some of them even post on UKC and let their views be known.

In reply to UKC News: The thing that always impresses me most about Jordan is that he does not swear and does not like people to swear around him, and when he is highly stressed he starts saying "Oh my word, oh my word" the mental control not to degenerate into foul language is fantastic.
Good effort on all counts.
Cheers Beds

In reply to J1234:

Let me get this straight; you're more impressed that he doesn't like swearing than, say, the fact he can climb E9?

In reply to pigeonjim:

I use pads on low grade routes all the time. Suspect sandbags, dirty rock, to keep my climbing shoes clean before I start climbing, probably other reasons I've forgotten as well. I'm a keen low achiever with bunions and pads remove a lot of pain from my feet if I slip.

As for top-end highball claims, most of the climbers I know that do this seem honest enough about what they have done. How much are the media and forum posters to blame for any distortion of these ascents?

In reply to stroppygob: I've never really thought of it that way, but defining it as attempts of minimise the chance of injury in a non destructive way makes a lot of sense. I find the whole issue of people being against the use of bouldering pads pretty crazy, its like they feel the need to make something more dangerous purely for the sake of it, are they just trying to prove how big their balls are or that they are more macho than someone else? Placing a mat at the bottom of a route where a ground fall is a possibility makes sense to me and its not going to do any damage and may save someone from breaking an ankle or worse so whats the problem? Surely in the same mentality we shouldn't use any protection at all seeing as its reducing the odds of getting injured?

Anyway thats beside the point, well done to both guys for doing some awesome looking routes

In reply to hexcentric: Yes, the mental control when he is so obviously highly stressed is incredible and gives an insight into the fact that climbing at that level is as much about mental control as phsycality and skill. Thats what I think, can we leave it at that, or start another thread.

In reply to Offwidth:
>How much are the media and forum posters to blame for any distortion of these ascents?

Steve you are incorrigible. First McHaffie isn't awesome enough for you. ...and then you trot out the blanket... blame the media. If by media you mean UKClimbing.com say so, if you mean Climb or Climber says so.

What distortion? There's no distortion in this news report that Jack Geldard wrote: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=52494

If climbers want to use mats to pad out landings that's fine, if they don't that's fine too. It's a personal choice.

You will find that if a climber does a newsworthy first ascent and they use mats or not, they say so, and we report that. There is no distortion.

Now get back to reading your Daily Mail and don't forget to take your medication.

Yours

Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells

as long as your second brings them up afterwards, as with the rest of your pro

Funny game trad climbing; we spend money, effort and time using gear to protect ourselves from possible falls, but pour scorn on someone who does the same but in a different way.

What do the trad police think of elbow and knee pads?

In reply to Offwidth:

Where the f**k did that come from.Please explain where I stated any of this.
You are another person who is finding things in a one sentence question that are not there. Be careful about what you are trying to pin on me.
I asked a question to start a debate not to have people put words in my mouth and attack me.


My personal view for all it is worth is already stated above if bothered to read it. ---> Climbing ethics are personal. There are no rules. If you are not damaging the rock or nature then do what you feel is right for you.

I havent used a boulder mat below a route but I wouldnt say never. Like a lot of climbers in the uk I dont have much talent and im a bit of a coward I just climb to enjoy it.

In reply to chrisprescott:

Surely there is also a case for using mats under very busy rotues to help with ground erosion?

In reply to J1234:

I've heard him swear, mid fall on a route at Egerton.
It was strange to hear someone who really doesn't swear to subconsciously pull that one out of the bag in a moment of stress.

In reply to Serpico:

He was about to break his leg though no?

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Curiously this was the fall before the one that broke his leg, this was from the lunge to the finishing jug - falling onto the 2 good cams (I thought they were good anyway). It was when he had his next go, still shaky from the fall, that he fluffed the unprotected lower arete and broke his leg.
He had it on video, ask him next time you see him.
At least now he's got this Earl business out the way it'll be safe to start answering his calls again .

In reply to Serpico: Yes I make a real effort not swear around him or Naomi, and it`s interesting that it`s something he supresses mentally and can still do on the Crux of an E9 (but not mid flight apparentlly, Imagine lobbing off a route and landing at St Peter`s feet going Oh F*ck, after such a celestial life it just would not be fair), I noticed it on the video of French Duke.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Thanks for that splendid defence but as I'm incorrigable I'll stick to my views. I've got no problem with Jack's report.

On the other point, if I'm guilty of anything its regarding James in too much 'awe' in that I wasnt so surprised he'd done it.

You are also insightful to realise I need to take medication in order to read the Daily Mail.

In reply to Offwidth:


Well say so. Be specific when you say , 'media' and give examples. You like being precise, be precise.

When you say 'media' as a catch all you are criticising Jack and myself. We are a beacon of truth, honesty and accountability in a world of advertorials and hype please give us the respect we have earned and if you have a gripe with us, tell us.

And as regards McHaffie...... not every top climber in the UK transmits news of every bowel movement, or even more significant episodes.

And as for ranking and comparing every climbing achievement....how ghastly. There's a bragging dreadsite for that and it's called 8a.nu

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Which media sources are full of advertorials and hype?.. feel free to be specific. I'm personally more circumspect, as those sharks can bite.

You've misread my attitude on precision. There is a time for precision and a time for rhetoric, politics and even fun.

You've lost me on bowel movements and ranking. I have seen some high rank bowel movements in my time; even have some photos, as evidence is important these days, but don't think I could post them here.

In reply to simes303:


We use trad gear even when we may be good enough to climb without it. Mats can be seen as another form of trad gear. Use them or not as you see fit but don't pretend that everyone shares your own narrow-minded view of what trad is or should be.

In reply to Offwidth: Touche!

In reply to UKC News: Firstly well down to Jordon and Pete - awesome effort.

As for the pads thing, I guess this is where the E-grade system for relatively low gritsone routes doesn't quite work. If adding a pad becomes common place to many of these dicey gritstone routes, I guess the grades may be revised accordingly, just as the advent of camming devices have made other routes less serious (Although I can't imagine a pad is going to affect the grade of a Severe too much!). Either way,I believe it is always a good thing to reduce the risk as much as possible, without stepping over the ethical line of damaging the environment to do so.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Royal Tunbridge Wells please.

I nearly always use a pad for various reasons;

-cuts down on erosion
-keeps my shoes clean
-we always have a little boulder warm up anyway so the pads always around.
-and yes, it looks after my ankles

BUT, for those really necky routes it does make it a little less hairy, so lowering the E grade; it doesn't bother me so much as I only bumble around the lower E grades anyway and it's rare I'm even in a position to use/need the pad; but for those higher grades where pro is at a real premium surely it makes a significant difference to the E grade.

Imagine a short grit E7 6b, say 8m with iffy pro; no pads you're gona break something; lots of pads and TR practice and you're halfway there!

Now I'm a good solid E1/2 leader, E3 on a good day; but there's E5's out there that I could practice and pad really well and get up; doesn't make me an E5 leader though!

Just my cup of tea; I do agree with the each to their own thing, as long as it's all reported cleanly though.

In reply to Chris F:

Holey Moley this thread has got to go in the Hall of Fame. The most entertaining read on here for a while. Now wheres me bouncy castle.

In reply to UKC News:

Well done Pete and Jordan!

In reply to Chris F:
>
Indeed


Indeed again. Interesting how few significant accidents there's been on the hard grit first ascent / repeat side. Reports like this do make it sound incredibly marginal but I not aware of many high profile accidents - Neil Gresham on Meshuga is the only one that comes to mind.

In reply to pigeonjim: of course a comment about climbing hard routes is more intresting/valid coming from someone climbing those hard routes, that is very obvious for me. I do not climb trad at all so i do not comment on it except when asked, if You climb sport 8a you would not have much to say how hard 9a is/should be. With trad it is I think about mental strain so if You only manage hvs You have no idea about e8.

In reply to stroppygob: i suggest You try those bolted into submision french routes in say Ceuse, Dame Blanche for example and see what you think when You are going for the last bolt. You can have plenty of adventure going to a night club in Brixton on saturday but who cares

In reply to kroolis77:

You are another one who either didnt read my posts or are just putting words into my mouth. I asked a question. I didnt comment on the grade or the mental strain or try to take away the achievement so in future read before you post and have a go.

In reply to Ian Patterson:
Didn't Wolfgang Gullich hurt himself falling off Master's Edge?
James

In reply to Peakphil: Surely this , as with all trad climbing is a reinforcement of the bourgeouis hegemony of the sport - if you can afford enough pads, gritstone routes (the lingua franca of uk 'trad') become more easier to acheive at a given grade, much as they do if you can afford a big range of cams, chalk, good shoes blah blah blah

In reply to whispering nic:

What does it matter if pads were used? The important thing is that Jordan and Pete have been open and honest about what was done. The grade is no doubt predicted for the trad style, and let's face it there's been no on sight E9 FAs so most E8/9/10/11 grades are an estimate for the route being led onsight.

It's good to see people being enthusiastic, as well as having good ethics.

In reply to whispering nic:

False equation of 'bourgeois' to 'well off' I think.

In reply to pigeonjim: wind your neck in

In reply to rackers3004: cracking pic of jordan on this months climb front cover.think the head band must come out when he means business,he doned it at ramshaw last week on an impressive ascent of cliperty clop

In reply to UKC News: Good effort like, looks cool