UKC

The International Federation of Sport Climbing (IFSC) have responded to the mass criticism aimed at their announcement that IFSC events would be aired via a pay to view subscription service using US company, Flosports. The decision caused a petition to be launched which has so far received 10,500 signatures. The decision is now being reconsidered and the Meiringen round of the Boulder World Cup this weekend will be available to watch as a free trial. Read more

In reply to UKC News:

Great news!

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

Is it? It seems more like a calculated, empty gesture that has been designed to take the wind out of the sails of outrage for now, in the hope that the united opposition that is currently in evidence will have fragmented by the time of the second World Cup. It changes absolutely nothing.

In reply to Valkyrie1968:

Well... we'll see. It's better news than I was expecting.

In reply to UKC News:

The wording may or may not be deliberate:

"For the free trial of IFSC World Cup Meiringen"

Which is perhaps a response to people saying they won't pay for an un-proven product - hence a free trial to show it's worth paying for.

"FloSports made a first reformulation of their offer, that will guarantee a free of charge view of the upcoming event in Meiringen. In the next days, further talks will occur in order to provide the best possible offer for the next months."

Which sounds like haggling. Other reviews of their BJJ or running is far from flattering, and they actually increased their BJJ prices from $20 to $30 p/m!
The difference being, as others have pointed out, few people care about all three disciplines of climbing. So the number of events an individual will watch is relatively low, compared to a weekly wrestling or running events.

Financially I can see why they want a subscription service, rather than PPV, but it would be the more attractive option.

I think I'd pay um... £3-5 for a GOOD broadcast of a competition. Due to time differences, it would rarely be "live".

However, one big annoyance is FloSports isn't Chromecast-able, so I can't watch their shows on the TV. Roku or AppleTV only I gather?

In reply to Valkyrie1968:

It's a interesting point though I wouldn't be too sure. If they're going to change/end the contract there will doubtless be a fair bit of negotiating to do, and that will take time. Because the first WC is starting today they pretty much had to respond to all the negativity to avoid even more resentment and frustration by causing everyone to miss it.

In reply to Durbs:


I still think that's very high. A TV license works out at £12 per month and for that you get 4 BBC channels 7 days per week. And Beeb broadcast standards are likely to be far higher too.

If I was paying anything, as others have said, I would much prefer to pay directly to the IFSC or the climbing community in general, than some third party.

According to a site called Better Business Bureau, the flosports business gets a one star out of five review:-
"Based on BBB files, FloSports Inc. has a pattern of disputes alleging product and billing issues. Specifically, consumers report paying in advance for live streaming of sporting events but that technical issues prevent them from watching the event. Further, consumers allege difficulty contacting the business to obtain refunds."
A small business trying to make niche sport broadcasting monetarily viable. As soon as you start charging that much money, especially when it has been free in the past, you had better deliver something extra!
I don't see how they can do that without shrinking the audience in order to cope, so they must be assuming that there will be a drop off in viewing, but they can still be viable with a smaller percentage of the audience who are committed enough to subscribe.
I'd love to know what research their model is based on. The other sports that they offer don't seem to fit all that well alongside climbing.

In reply to Durbs:


Not only that, it's the latest Apple TV (version 3 I believe). In order to watch on your telly box, many folks are going to have to invest in new hardware. The beauty of YouTube is that it's on virtually every platform.

In reply to stp:

Oh I agree. I'd far prefer free-to-view, ad-sponsored streams - better for climbers all round.

However I'm assuming they can't get out of the three year contract, and FloSports aren't going to stream for free when everything else they have is paid for.

In reply to UKC News:

Bet this means we have to sign up to flosports to receive that free trial. Not gonna happen.

In reply to UKC News:

Maybe I'm just a pessimist but I'm sort of expecting Flosports to ask for bank account details and your mother's maiden name BEFORE you can watch for free. Hope I'm wrong.

In reply to Removed User:

Indeed.

In reply to UKC News:

Flo/IFSC had to make some concessions based on the response, but this is like saying your first instalment of a crap product is free. The product (4min rule) is still crap.

Get rid of Flo and bring back the free view and +4min rule.

In reply to stp:

.If I was paying anything, as others have said, I would much prefer to pay directly to the IFSC or the climbing community in general, than some third party.

Maybe the IFSC looked at this - it is an obvious solution and one which would have at least been more acceptable, so I'm not sure why it wasnt followed up - "dear viewers, we want to be able to provide better live streaming. but its getting expensive. We are going to have to charge for it - how about €xx per event / season".
If the money went straight to the IFSC to organise better comps, I dont think there would have been too much objection, especially if there was some notice / planning.

In reply to UKC News:

Didn't take the competitors long to organise a protest, they now have until the next round to work out how to move forward, if they continue to act together the IFSC and FloSport are screwed. If I were the competitors I would be organising a competitor position regarding the use of my performances on a stream and I would be talking to a lawyer.

After all in theory the IFSC is for them and if they were to say. "If we don't get this and this, and this then we are staying on the mat." No climbers, no rights deal. Climbing community seems quite good at coming together to expose muppets and charlatans at the moment.

In reply to daprince:

Many of them will have bought their travel and accommodation in advance, also 6-10months of training, diets, giving up things for a performance peak now is a heartbreaking thing to have to give up.

Many of them will be (rightly so!) worried that their fizzy drink or brand of climbing shoe manufacturer will drop them if they make the climbing news for what may be perceived for the wrong reasons.

So in reality, our climbing heroes are conflicted by their desire to do the right thing for the sport and the hand that feeds them so they can do what they love at a high level.

This situation only works if we the viewer keep the demand up for what the IFSC thinks we want, then it's no longer the athletes decision.

In reply to alx:
Laregely true but if they act as one the industry will have to cave. I see no audience currently for PPV and Flosport don't look likely to deliver one. If IFSC tough it out I think they will kill what could have been a good living rather than dirtbag plus for a few, because of short term greed.

In reply to daprince:

I agree - with the exception if this was born out of necessity rather than greed. i.e. they couldn't fund another season of streams without this deal.

In reply to Durbs:
There are a range of providers out there, I bet a few in the climbing community would have took it on for, a few quid and expenses. Youtube provides an add based distribution platform. If they din't know Flosport were going down a $20/month subscription model, they are inept, if they knew and thought it ok, they are fools. Neither view of them fills my heart with joy. I wonder what the rights were sold for and if the competitors were going to see any money via their national councils/governing bodies?

In reply to daprince:
FloSports have a bad reputation of starting low ($20 per month low!!) then jacking up the costs.

This happened to BJJ and they now have to pay $49.99 per month. Well worth checking Reddit, BJJ and FloSports. These people sound like bad news for our sport.

http://imgur.com/0f15HKd

This is a small victory, but the fight is not over. Sign the petition, contact the IFSC, and be heard. A small fee might be reasonable, but they have to understand that we won't let them gouge climbers for profit when sponsors and advertisers can and should do their part. Be heard!

In reply to daprince:


I think you're underestimating the amount of time, skill and effort it takes to do this stuff well. You're looking for multiple people with tens of thousands of pounds of equipment who are willing to fly around the world then spend a couple of days setting up, filming and tearing down before flying back to their normal lives. You also need talented presenters and/or commentators willing to do the same - especially if you want to grow interest in the sport.

The coverage has improved massively in recent years but I'm not sure that setup was ever sustainable. My hope would be that this goes tits up and Red Bull TV sweeps it up like they did with mountainbiking post RockyRoads.

In reply to UKC News:

The whole thing smacks of a publicity stunt to me. Create outrage to promote your product.

In reply to UKC News:

I'd take expensive streaming over Red Bull any day. Energy drinks are caffeinated p*sswater and extreme sports are these companies' only means of getting around the fact that marketing this sugar-laden crap to children is prohibited. (Plus, Red Bull's snapbacks make people look RIDICULOUS. It's embarrassing.)

The IFSC need to be held accountable. It's rare that governing bodies are truly representative of the communities they serve but this, combined with the Olympics fiasco, is shameful.

In reply to UKC News:

On the upside it's going out on YouTube tomorrow and FLoSports are refunding anyone who has paid. Round one to the protesters, pucker up for round two.

http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/news/item/911-meiringen-live-streami...

Watched the videos from the Meiringen WC. The video quality was better than in the past, so perhaps FloSports will bring a level of professionalism to the film coverage better than we saw with IFSC, but I'm still not willing to fork over a lot of cash to watch future comps.

In reply to Rad:

I disagree. I think that cutting away from climbers mid-problem just before they top it or fall off, so that we can see the other climber just rest on the mats makes the broadcast frustrating to watch. Little things like failing keeping the clock on the screen and bringing up the results table over the top of climbers climbing, make me think that if I had paid to watch I wouldn't be paying again.

In reply to Rad:

I'm doubtful FloSport had much to do with yesterday's production. Seemed like the usual production team working on much the same shoestring. Yes, not something you'd pay a lot of money to watch but... for free... it's bloody marvellous. It must be quite hard to cover multiple things happening at the same time. Football, keep a camera on the ball and you'll not go far wrong. Horse racing, keep a camera on the front of the race. Bouldering final seems trickier when you've two things to cover and something possibly amazing can turn into a shit abortive attempt in an instant. Not to mension the semis when there is lots going on.

In reply to UKC News:

If the IFSC is desperate for money surely a free to view but with advertising is the way to go? Like watching football on ITV or whatever. That way the money would go more directly to the IFSC (I imagine anyway) and it would still be as accessible as ever.

Obviously I'd prefer add free but even with adverts it's far better than a subscription to a third party that just want to ring the sport for some cash.

In reply to Jay.Carr:

Yes, there were missed things for sure. For example, Chon had a top that was overturned and we never saw it or the replay of it.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:


Seems to me that the format is ideal for that. Everything stops every 4 minutes and i doubt many would begrudge a 15s ad break during the changeover, while the next climbers come on and face away from the wall.