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guy127917 - on 14 Jan 2018

Evening all, hope week 2 of 2018 treated you well. Anyone have suggestions for the next fitclub challenge?

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity. UKC fitclub is a rich community with posters sharing their goals, noting successes and failures and offering support to those struggling to maintain motivation. Anyone interested in starting is very welcome to join, but to get the most of UKC fit club you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits and drive you towards achieving your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.

 

For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles are linked here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=274502 

 

The following training article by Alex Barrows gives an excellent breakdown on training the four main "energy systems" specific to climbing: http://alexbarrowsclimbing.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/training-for-sport-climbing.html

 

Last week’s thread can be found here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/walls+training/fitclub_564-677016

 

Bones: How did week 1 go?

hms: Back 2 on the fingerboard makes me feel sick, it’s like medieval torture!

Powderpuff: Yep be patient with the fingerboard, if you are consistent it will pay off but you can’t rush it!

guy127917: Keep the focus on the plan up.

wurzel: Lattice did some videos a while back about little workouts to add on to the end of your sessions just to start getting an endurance boost. It sounds like you already do something pretty similar. https://www.epictv.com/media/podcast/lattice-training-the-20-minute-endurance-boost/605825

Curious Yellow: Do you ever climb on the wave at the Castle?

AJM: Enjoy the ski trip- don’t get injured/put on too much leg muscle/eat too much cheese.

MFB: 1kg loss in a week is pretty good isn’t it? More than that would be a crash diet in my book!!

AlanLittle: Your recurring illness- are you giving yourself enough time to recover fully before getting back into training? Ancap session the day after being stuck in bed sounds heinous!!

mattrm: You could leave the pram brakes on, add some resistance ;)

crimpsoplenty: Of course, welcome along. Good to hear the warriors way is helping you, it’s definitely one I keep coming back to.

Tyler: “all my new year resolutions dropped by the 2nd” I think that’s absolutely standard, maybe even recommended, behaviour.

Si dH: Interesting insight on pinches, hadn’t really considered that. Do you ever take props to help warm up outside? Also thanks for book recommendation, will definitely read that before my trip!

Laura Morrissey: Don’t be hard on yourself, it’s good to fail on routes, means you are pushing yourself!!!

biscuit: “A real novelty to have no pain during/after climbing” Climbing is such a bizarre sport!

mrchewy: I’m sure the finger strength and endurance will come quite quickly once you have some glorious Spanish rock at your tips.

planetmarshall: Thanks for the heads up on the forums, a few threads have definitely increased my confidence somewhat. Will be very interested to hear how a lab test goes if you  choose that..

Ally Smith: Did you get back on grit to ‘seal the deal’?

Dandan82: Sounds like good inspiration for your May trip, here’s hoping you can get some serious training in. I’ve wish listed your recommended warmups!

the sheep: Sound plan by the… sound of it?

TheFasting: Nice set of goals, have you invested in a rack of screw yet?

Tom Green: I like the quarterly approach, I think the summaries will be helpful to revisit. BTW have you got eyes on any particular VI?

Climbthatpitch: How do you rate the exercises the TFTNA workout combines?

 

AWOL: leon, just tintin, 

hms - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

couldn't agree more!

M - taking D2 back to uni. Back in enough time to squeeze a core session in before yoga. 
T - cycle commute. FB warmup, then continuous hangs with 6kg assist for 4 finger crimp and drag, 8kg assist for back 3. Steady improvement in times showing for this. Finished with 7/3/6/3 x10 at BW.
W - cycle commute. UCR continuity routes - 5 routes, 3 blocks.
T - cycle commute. Absolutely nothing else at all.
F - cycle commute. FB warmup, then 5/10/5/3 x6 working up to +17kg, then 10/3/5/4 x6 at BW. Rather tired.
S - off to visit elderly parents, now my dad is out of hospital. Various light diy and walking.
S - back home. Core session. OHP & bicep curls with 10kg. 

that was a pretty full-on plan week, which ran Sat to Sat. The week just starting is a very light one before the plan changes in emphasis.

Tyler - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to hms:

What do these sort of figures mean " 7/3/6/3 x10"?

guy127917 - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to hms:

Training plan week 6 summary:
    Aerobic Volume: 6.4 hours Running Distance: 28 miles Strength Sessions: 2   Climbing Sessions: 3        
Training plan week 7 plan:
    Aerobic Volume: 6.6 hours Strength Sessions: 2   Climbing Sessions: 2.0  

 

Monday: 45 minute Z2 run, 30 mins stairmaster

Tuesday: 45 minute Z1 run, TFNTA circuit x 2 rounds

Wednesday: 45 minutes Z1 run, pretty crap bouldering session- comp wall up to problem 18 and then 4 x doubles on autobelays

Thursday: 45 minutes Z1 run, 30 minutes stairmaster, TFNTA circuit x 2 rounds

Friday: 1:30 Z1 run (fasted, horrendous), 14 lead pitches up to 6c

Saturday: rest day

Sunday: 15 lead pitches up to 7a+.

 

Good week- did all my planned volume plus a bit more. Legs were feeling heavy by Friday but fully recovered after day off. Volume next week goes up a little bit which should be fine, depending on what we do at the weekend.

AJM - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

> AJM: Enjoy the ski trip- don’t get injured/put on too much leg muscle/eat too much cheese

I'm going to do my best on the first two but can make no promises on the third!

I can't really remember what I did during the week. Monday I think I did some good sets of weighted pull-ups and some fly's. 

Tuesday was stretching

Wednesday I had a good wall session. Got some relatively decent problems done. 

Thursday, stretching again

Friday, mainly packing, some token sets of rows so I could claim to have done something

Saturday, in theory travel isn't training but with an infant it was a lot more draining than most of my training!

and today, first day on skis. Did about 2hrs, had great fun, made some progress on actually learning to ski. 

disappointing progress on weight but on the other hand I've been seeing progress stretching, can feel some improvements there. Skiing this week then going to try to get back in a rhythm again after that, been lax on fingers past few weeks.

guy127917 - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Interesting stat for other TFTNAers- my "aerobic hours" calc last week was 6.4 hours, but my total time training last week, including cycle commuting, 1 hour per gym session and 1.5 hours per climbing session (which is optimistic) was 17 hours 20 minutes. Since my aerobic target in week 20 is like 17 hours... I need to get more efficient!

Post edited at 19:02
Si dH - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Thanks Guy. I don't - although I occasionally think about buying one of these portable fingerboards. Maybe in advance of next family holiday as an extra application!

I'll do my full update on Tuesday, as I'm planning to benchmark my finger strength then to see what improvements I've made so hopefully they'll be a bit more to say and reflect on. This week has been mostly resting.

I should point out that Caldwell's book isn't one to read for inspiration about Kyrgyzstan (quite the opposite, if you don't know his story!) But it's very good.

I also thought it worth mentioning the latest trainingbeta podcast for some of you. It's all about alpine training.

wurzelinzummerset on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

> wurzel: Lattice did some videos a while back about little workouts to add on to the end of your sessions...

Thanks Guy, will check it out.

STG: 7a indoors -- achieved this week. New STG: Another 7a in or outdoors.
MTG: 7a+ anywhere (amended to include indoors)
LTG: 7b anywhere

Session 01: Boulder 30mins. Moonboard 3 repeats on a 6A+. Circuit board 2 repeats on orange (c.40 moves), falling off just before end each time.

Session 02: 20 mins easy boulder and autobelay warmup. 2 hour coaching session. Got the 7a I'd been working after advice on breathing/relaxing -- clipped the top and felt I could have still kept climbing. No major problems with what I'm doing but some tweaks to improve here and there.

Session 03: 20 mins autobelay warmup. Campus big rungs matching 0,2,4,6 x 2 sets. Medium rungs matching 0,1,2,3,4,5 x 2 sets. 20 mins boulder cave. 3 routes 6a+ to 6b+. Worked a different 7a and got all the moves. It should be doable soon. Had another look at the yellow sandbag 6c.

Also 4km run, short hill walk, plus press ups sit ups.

 

 

hms - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to Tyler:

it's the hang timer setting, so 7 sec on, 3 sec off, 6 iterations of that then 3 min rest is a pretty vanilla FB routine, repeat however many times (10 here).

so as you can imagine, 10/3/5/4 x6 is pretty hard work!!

Tyler - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to hms:

So it's:

Hangtime(seconds) /rest time (secs) /number of reps/rest time(mins) x number of sets?

In which case you are doing a lot and once again I'm being put to shame by bellow fit clubbers efforts!

And are you doing a one armed back three hang with just 8kg of assistance? 

Post edited at 20:09
crimpsoplenty - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

STG: lead a lot and reduce that fear. Also f6b boulder problem. Lead a couple more 6bs
LTG: lead a 6c outdoors

Monday: Work

Tuesday: Lead session, was fine on the short routes with groundfall potential, not so great up high....need work on that :p

Wednesday: Started a bit of strength training ( I feel extra strength can only help especially in bouldering although bouldering itself is helping my strength anyway and I can only get so far getting my heel on because I can't pull my body weight) Assisted pull ups, deadlifts, shoulderpresses etc. Perhaps didn't go heavy enough but wanted to make sure my form was ok. 

Thursday: core work on trx, 20 mins of yoga and then some deadhangs on the fingerboard

Friday: sleep after night shift

Saturday: back to leading - moderately brave? still frustratingly bad though

Sunday: bouldering at the depot, ticked off some of the easier comp routes, tried to do some ridiculously hard ones too, I like not knowing grades/circuits. I suspect I have been on things I normally would go nowhere near

Bones [:B - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

> Bones: How did week 1 go?

First week of TFTNA plan went well. To stay in zone 1 and 2 I need to walk at the moment with very minimal jogging. I have decided to power walk to a cafe to work most days to fit in more zone 1 and 2 sessions so have included these in my aerobic activity. It is pretty hard to know what to include and what not to include when the training is walking as I walk all over the place but I am sure it will become clearer as the weeks go on. I forgot to monitor my heart rate on these walks but I will do that this week.

Transitional phase - week 1 summary:
Energy levels - very good
Recovery - good
Hydration - drank plenty of water
Aerobic activity - 289 mins
Zone 1/2 (walk/running) time - 1hr 44 mins
Climbing sessions - 3
Fingerboard sessions - 0
Strength sessions - 1 - I didn’t plan my week so well this week and only got 1 session in. Have planned 2 in for next week.

Transitional phase - week 2 plan:
Aerobic activity - 240mins
Zone 1/2 (walk/running/stepper) time - 150 mins
Climbing sessions - 3
Fingerboard sessions - 0
Strength (and core) sessions - 2

 

Monday: approximately 40 mins fast walking

Tuesday: 15 mins on stepper trying to stay in zone 2. Even at my slowest I was still spiking into zone 3 quite regularly. Then I did core and strength sessions which felt pretty good. Will look at exercise videos on Uphill Athlete this week as not totally sure I am doing them correctly. 

Wednesday: rest

Thursday: Walk/ran in zone 1-2 to and from the Castle which was a total of 1hr 44mins. 
Boulder session - felt a lot stronger than I had expected, flashed a V4, worked some v5’s and did some routes in the cave (roof) - felt strong. My core definitely seems to be getting stronger.
Front lever training - 10 x 2 sets hanging knee raises.

Friday: Did some routes on lead at the Castle - I don’t think I had recovered from the day before and I felt quite shaky on them. I didn’t count the routes because I was having a bad day but I vow to do better next time.
Front lever training - 10 x 2 sets hanging knee raises.

Saturday: rest

Sunday: Approx. 12 routes on lead from 5+ to 7a. I flashed all except the 7a, including a 6c so can tick a couple of goals for the week. Had a really good session, felt strong until the end when I needed sustenance! Got nervous on the 7a - will have a go at it again next weekend when we do some route climbing and will also do some falls. I am committed to doing some fall practice next weekend!
Front lever training - 10 x 2 sets hanging knee raises.

LTG:
To climb a big wall - El Cap
The Matterhorn
Lead 7a+ 2018
Run a trail marathon
Lead E1

MTG:
Lead 30 x VS trad routes
Lead 5 HVS trad routes
Climb 5 routes from the Aiguilles Rouges book
Lead The Great Slab at Millstone Edge (HS 4b)
To lead one 7a lead indoors from each reset
Run a trail half marathon
To complete the TFTNA training plan starting with the 8 week transition phase - started this again due to illness
Goals for Australia in September but I have found a couple of routes in the Mt Coolum area I would like to do: Beer, Boobs and Jerky and Crazy Horny

STG:
To complete this week of TFTNA and keep a record of progress, assessing it on a weekly basis - almost tick, missed one strength session
To work a 7a on lead once a week when I have a partner - tick this week
To flash 2 6c/6c+ indoor routes for every reset - tick this week
To plan my week every Sunday - tick!

MFB - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

 

think the kilo has probably crept back on, slack week in that dept

Mon - scout crags, route 1

Tues - Helvellyn gully 2

Wed - 30 mins football, 30 mins on bike

Thu - 40mins bike - autobelay, 10x8m overhanging routes, up and down, 30 mins

Fri - The Groove, Tarn crag

Sat- Sharp Edge, Blencathera

Sun - helvelyn, gully 2

stg

get grips with weight, get Scotland for route, climb E1 by end feb

 

hms - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to Tyler:

yep, that's right. Everything is 2 arms I hasten to add. Only time I ever really try 1 arm is for benchmarking and I find it super tough to do!

AlanLittle - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

 

You may be right on the recovery thing Guy - see also my failed attempt to take a month of after Kalymnos. Otoh this virus thing is something a lot of people round here have this winter, so it's not [just] that it's only recurring in my case because I'm, not taking care of myself properly.

STG: Addressing the head game: fall or jump off every time I have a rope on. Top out on the Big Intimidating Roof sector at Thalkirchen - have never succeeded on this in all the time Thalkirchen has been my local lead wall.

Average weight for the month of January below 82 kgs: currently 82.3, 0.3 down from last week. Good.

MTG (2018): Onsight 7a; redpoint 7b multiple times on routes that aren't pure boulder problems

LTG (2021): Redpoint 8a before I hit 60 (now with Vote of Confidence from somebody who has actually climbed with me several times)

M: Bike one hour

Wall, Boulderwelt with my son. Short but good session: ticked three hard boulders and found an improved foot position for the crux of my circuit project. 

T: Bike one hour.

Half an hour shoulder mobility, press ups, armaid.

W: Wall, Thalkirchen. Didn't get on - or off - the Big Scary Roof this time. Wall was horrendously overcrowded (pesky other people's new year's resolutions) & partner bailed early due to shoulder trouble. Got a few routes done before he bailed though: maintenance session.

T: Bike one hour

Half an hour antagonists, eccentrics, armaid.

F: Bike one hour

Had planned to go to Boulderwelt in the evening but decided I was too tired and need a break. Did half an hour shoulder & general mobility then early(ish) to bed

S: rest

S: Wall, Freimann. Better session than Wednesday. A dozen routes up to & including a 2nd go redpoint of a 6c+, thus matching my best ever going uphill indoors. Rounded off the session with a token set of very tame clip-drop falling practice. Proper falls, earlier in the session, would have been better; but something is infinitely better than nothing. 

Post edited at 21:41
Curious Yellow - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Used to but have mostly just used the autobelays recently, then cancelled my membership in December. It's pretty pricey for one-off visits so unlikely to be back much...

Very unfocused week, a couple of good boulder sessions but not really what I should have been doing!

Mon: Rest.

Tues: Wall. Fingerboard. Failed to train, got sucked into frantically trying to get stuff ticked before the reset started at 9pm!

Wedns: Rest.

Thurs: Wall. Did a good chunk of the new set up to V5.

Fri: Rest.

Sat: Depot. Working round their comp circuit, nice problems. 

Sun: 15ish km walk up to Simon's Seat. 

LauraMorrissey - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Thanks Guy, I will try not to beat myself up  
So this week we were told the sad news that Basecamp training will be kicked out of the climbing gym at the end of February. By the end of the week it got worse with my main trainer quitting Basecamp. I am completely gutted as I love my training community and its thrown my training plan into the unknown and the vibe training is all weird... BUT we can't change what we cannot control and I will find a new happy place. 
Anyway, my week as follows:
Monday
AM Training
x3 sets - donkey kicks. resistance band walks, 12kg kettlebell sumo squats
x5 sets - x5 barbell squat pause (5 sec/35kg), x3 each leg weighted step ups (30kg), 
x3 sets - x10 sumo squat cross jumps, x20 each leg mountain climbers, x10 (10kg) kettlebell thrusts, x10 (12kg) ball slams
- Beastmaker workout - Beasty 5a: nearly completed without feet touching. I taped my fingers but I still ended up with blisters.
Tuesday
- Yoga
Wednesday
AM training
x4 sets - x5 dumbbell flys (3kg), x10 Hyper-extensions/Back-extensions, x10 overhead dumbbell press (8kg)
x4 sets - x5 chin up 5 sec lower (managed 2 without band, then used lowest resistance band), x5 push ups with 5 sec lower
x3 sets - x5 (each side) barbell core rotations (20kg), x6 (each arm) single arm kettlebell row (8kg), 6 hanging leg raises
PM - Boulder
- First boulder session in a long time. Really enjoyed it. Manages a few greens, as we have no grades I would guess these would be similar to greys at the Castle V1-V3). 
Thursday
AM training
4 sets - x5 dead lifts (30kg, 40kg, 40kg, 45kg), x10 ring row pull ups, x10 tricep dips
15 mins continuous - x5 push ups, x10 squats with ball, x10 kettlebell thrusts (12kg), driveway run - managed 7 reps. 
Friday
- Yoga with Adrienne (Youtube)
Saturday
- Davies Creek hike - 12.3km, easy hike, 559m elevation,
- afternoon swim at Enoggera Dam to cool off
Sunday
- rest.. its was a cool 40 degrees!!! 
I thought I would calculate my commute each week, this week 52km/32miles. Its not much but it adds up I guess. 
 
LauraMorrissey - on 14 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

oh forgot my goals  

STG:
*work on food plan as I think I am not fueling myself properly.
*do 5 pull ups (tbc)
*lead a 18 (5c) at Kangaroo Point 
*Dave Creek Circuit Hike (10km)
**indoor 21 overhung route on the 'nose' on top rope. Need to start doing some more focused overhang sessions if Jen wants to climb in the Coolum cave in September!
MTG:
Mt Tibrogargan:
*Lead "Zeitgeist" - 3 pitches, 17(5b), 13(4b), 15(4c) 
*Climb "Troposphere" - 5 pitches, 15, 17, 18, 15, 16
*Cycle to Nudgee beach (50km/32miles) by June 2018
LTG:
*100km cycle - either Brisbane to Bay (June) or cycle to Gold Coast (Oct)
*sport climbing trip Blue Mountains (October with Jen) - lead a 20
*climb a big wall before I'm 40
Climbthatpitch - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to Si dH:

That podcast upset me

I worked my zone 1 HR out at 142 max and the podcast stated around 130. If i done that i would have to stop.  

 

Going to keep mine around the 140 as it feels easy and I can hold a conversation.

Thanks for pointing the podcast out tho sounds like some good exercises I might try in there 

Climbthatpitch - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Thanks Guy

Really admire how you fit all that training in. I am struggling to get mine done. Had to get up early this week and run into work to get my long run done. Did go a bit further than I planned as otherwise I was going to be late for work. I did plan to stop and walk the last bit. That is what I get for working distances out in my head and thinking it will be ok.

I really enjoy the workout from TFTNA. The exercise out of there I think will help me the most is the split squat. When I done it on the first week of the plan I was really wobbly and kept falling to either side but now I can keep my balance all the way through and am thinking about adding weight.  Do you follow this or do you make your own strength training up?

I am swapping back to miles instead of KM as I have started using the training peaks app as my HR monitor syncs to this so saves me doing the work but it keeps changing back to miles.

 

Short term goals - Next week

3hr 30 min zone 1 running

25 min zone 2/3 running

3 x TFTNA conditioning

1 x climbing focusing on endurance.

 

 

M - Rest

T - Run - 12.9 miles, 11:18 min per mile, 1,182ft accent Z1 - Had to push this slightly higher than z1 to get to work on time

W - Climbing routes, No really structure up to 6b+

T - 3 rounds TFTNA conditioning

F - AM - 3.2 mile, 12:30 per mile, 620ft accent z1

     PM - Climbing routes again no structure

S - Walk around the forest of dean - reason I am logging this is I had my youngest on my shoulders for most of the day

S - AM -3 rounds TFTNA conditioning

     PM - 2.3 miles 10:19 per mile, 460ft accent Zone2/3

 

Lee

 

guy127917 - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to Climbthatpitch:

I only work 4 days a week and don't have kids so it's ever so slightly easier for me to bosh out the hours

Yes I am following their plan more or less, though not strictly in timed circuit fashion, up to 3 rounds this week. The split squat is the exercise I find to be most effective as well- you can really feel the stabilizers working. I do it back to back with weighted front squats after the rest of the exercises and it's really killer! There are a few TRX exercises I miss from my previous workouts which I will add back in after a couple more weeks, and maybe get rid of 2 point/3 point and "hitlers dogs" which I find to be fairly poor.

Dandan82 - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Thanks Guy,
Yes it was a very motivating trip, despite not getting to climb as hard as I wanted, it did at least show that I can survive a week of climbing with no serious elbow issue so I'm keen to get myself in good condition for May to take advantage of that.
Most of the climbs I did this holiday will only be good if you are going in the colder months, all of the crags we visited are usually far too hot to climb at in the summer. If you have a trip planned I can always give you further recommendations?

On the subject of getting into shape, I got back in touch with Lattice this week to look at firing up the old training plan, the elbow may not be perfect but it has improved a lot and I think it's ready to at least begin a base phase. If I was to wait until I was completely uninjured to begin training again, i'd be waiting a long time, i'm no spring chicken any more so I have to accept minor injuries as just another aspect to deal with, something to work around rather than letting it halt all progress.

The Project have finally opened up their new conditioning room (which did require me to start a premium monthly membership to gain access) which contains the lattice board, so I will do my own re-assessment today to see where things stand, meanwhile Tom has got me doing 2 weeks of a very light base phase with almost entirely AeroCap climbing sessions and some core work, just to see how I deal with it.

M: OG session; handstands felt pretty decent, awareness of my body position whilst upside down is definitely improving, even if i'm still toppling over a lot, at least I feel like I know why!
The German hangs are getting less and less agonisingly painful whilst simultaneously showing an increase in range of motion which is win win, i'm stretching down to touch a pile of just 1 weight on the floor now, I started with 5 weights, so that's a big gain (200-250mm at a guess). Still didn't get time to do the rings part of the session.

T: Indoor Boulder; Warmed up, did a few problems, elbow felt a little bit uncomfortable, so I decided to do an experiment and go onto the woody again to see how the elbow felt. Just like last time, the elbow seems to love the woody! I was able to pull surprisingly hard with no issues at all. I guess it's to do with the regular nature of the board, the constant wrist angle, smaller holds perhaps, or maybe more time spent with a bent elbow and not straightening the arm, but it certainly feels better than doing random problems on the normal walls.

W: OG session; I flipped it around and did the rings work first to ensure I didn't run out of time, dips and press-ups felt nails as ever, but the assisted chin ups felt like there might, just might be some improvement going on there...

T: Indoor Boulder; First session on the new base plan from Tom, 3 min on 30 sec off x4, 2 sets. Did this on the traverse wall at a level that felt hard but didn't induce any pump, which it was supposed to. I've mentioned this before but I find it very hard to 'generate' pump by trying to hit a certain intensity, it's only something that I tend to experience on real rock. Still, got a sweat on so it can't be all bad. I also did a yoga-style core session which was quite interesting.

F: Nothing, got back into a bit of easy DIY though, didn't seem to bother the elbow.

S: Indoor Boulder; took a trip to Red Spider for a change, they have a pretty mega woody with a sloping floor meaning the board is over 5m long but you never drop more than a couple of feet. Was able to do 8 on 8 off Aero on a jug circuit around the perimeter of the woody, was probably a little hard but again, I didn't pump or power out so maybe it was ok.

S: Nothing, saving myself for the Lattice test tomorrow.

Dandan82 - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

(continued as there appears to be a new message size limit)

It's about time I put some new goals down, these are partially recycled from last year with some new ones added where appropriate. The biggest change is the quite modest goal of '8a in a day' for Margalef in May. I like this one as it will test not only my fitness, but my also my route reading and efficiency if I want to have a chance of getting it. Sàtiva Patàtica (8a) is a strong contender for this one I reckon. It's more of a consolidating goal than a grade pushing goal, but I think that's what I need to get better and stay on the right side of injury.

STG: (next week)
* Complete all sessions on new base phase plan
* Perform Lattice Test
* Touch the floor on German hangs

MTG: (next few months)
* Pull on Nina mala/flash over in Margalef in May
* 7c in a day on Portland
* 8a in a day in Margalef in May
* Pick a lattice max moves target for May based on result from todays test

LTG: (This Year)
* 150 ticks in logbook - 15/150
* tick 3 x 8a
* tick 10 x 7c/7c+
* Go to Kilnsey
* Get to December without any new injuries
* +bodyweight pull ups (2 reps) 
* Enter BLCC and don't come dead last 

BHAG:
* 9a by March 2022 (40th Birthday)
* Stage 1a of BHAG is 8b by the end of the year

AJM - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to Dandan82:

You can do the Lattice at the Project for a £4 per session top-up as well. I'm going to use that every now and again to benchmark once I've got a plan for what I need to train for! 

Ally Smith on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

As always - many thanks to Guy for the weekly stats.

I did go back to the grit, but alas the outcome was the same, but this time with even more skin loss!

 

Week 2

M - Felt beasted after Plantation session – groggy for a lot of the morning. 5x barbell complex circuit at lunchtime to get the blood moving (10x deadlift, 10x curl/OHP combo, 15x squat, all with 25kg). Evening fingerboard. An-cap continuous hangs (pretty good scores considering 2nd day on) then TRX reverse flys, I’s and T’s.

T - 25km 62min 484kcal lunchtime cycle. Shoulders feeling beasted from TRX, so only 15x 1on/1off FoC aero-cap. 

W - Morning max hangs. Middle-2 + 20kg 10s x3. 4-finger drag, +43kg 10s x3. Front-2 +25kg 10s x2 only – got a little flapper so skipped the 3rd set.  Lunchtime an-cap hangs. 10/3/5/4 BW+16kg x6 – hard! Failed at rep 5 of set 4-6. Evening Pilates class; isolating some little hip and core muscles I didn’t know existed, however the main abdominal exercises which had everyone else grunting felt like a warm-up compared to a Randall/Lattice core session!

T - Post work gym. Erg intervals 8x 250m@1:45 pace, 45s rest. 3k total. Bench; 2x 6rep@60kg, 2x 8rep@50kg, 1x 10rep@40kg. Lat pull-down; 2x 6rep@93kg, 2x 8rep@79kg, 2x 10rep@69kg. Seated rows. 4x 6rep@69kg, 2x 15rep@39kg. 20min cycle warm-down.

F - “Quitter’s Friday” – apparently the day most people give up their new years resolutions – well not me! FB repeaters; 2x 7/3/6/3 on middle-2, front-2, back-2, front-3 and finally back-3. Hard work!

<b>S - much closer to “quitter’s Saturday” though…

...only exercise was 30min of walking between home-50th b'day party-home

S - Plantation; warm-up flounder, then flashed Zippy’s Traverse, 7B. On with the main event; 30+ goes on The Joker; close, but no cigar. I got more consistent, but didn’t latch the jug. Gareth did it though – chuffed for him, but glad his daughters had gone home as he turned the air blue! https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd9yOqchRjH/

Post edited at 11:09
Dandan82 - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to AJM:

True, although you can't buy the top-ups yet, (something to do with it not quite being finished?) so the only way in is through the premium membership. 
I'm also hoping to use the room quite regularly, i'm hoping to do double or even triple sessions while i'm there to make the most of it eating up a whole evening. Having gym equipment as well as a climbing wall means I can do something like a hard boulder session, an aero session and then antagonist or core session all in one visit.

AJM - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to Dandan82:

True true. I'm glad they put the option in though as I definitely can't get the value for money from a monthly pass any more!

Tom Green on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Hi All.

Thanks for statting Guy. As to VIs that I have my eye on... probably the same classics that everyone fancies, but am particularly keen to get on The Hoarmaster in Lochain. However, last week...

Last Week Revue: W1 of TFTNA

Hit all of the week's goals except naughtily swapped the strength session for an extra climbing session.

M: Piste skiing at Oslo Vinterpark. Seven hours total skiing time (Z0? Z1?) and 40% of one STG with two blacks (one off piste trail through bumps and trees -good practice for me).

T: Shoulder rehab (bands).

W: Indoor climbing at Boardroom. Climbed >120m at avg 6a with 'working rests' (6a+ x 3, 6a x1, 5+ x2, 4+ x2)

T: Rest

F: Rest. Drive to Glen Coe.

S: Walk in to SCnL (~3km, 650m vert gain, 90 min -probs high Z2). Climbed Chimney Route (VI 6), leading both hard pitches -STG Ticked!! Walked out.

S: Walked in to Douglas boulder on Ben (~4km, 700m vert gain, 80 min -mostly Z1). Climbed Cutlass (VI 7), seconding the tech 7 pitch (got up it clean, but glad I wasn't leading!). Epic ab and walk out in full Nevis tempest. Long drive to reach home at 4am.

Next Week Plan: W2 of TNFTNA

One climbing session

Two general strength sessions

One long Z1

One short Z1

One short Z2/3 

 

STGS -Q1

Scottish VI (TICKED!!)

Ski 5+ Black Runs (2 down, 3+ to go!)

3 Routes ED1+ (dropped from previous goal of 5 as had to reduce trip length)

 

MTGS -Q2

E1 on multiple rock types

6B in Lofoten 

Sandstone trail in <10h

 

LTGS -Q3

'El Cap Nose Day' 880m climbing in <24h (probs N Wales)

New routes in Kygyzstan

 

BHAG:

Droites N Face -Colton Brookes

Salbitschijen Westgrat

Monty's Axe at Lower Montcliffe 

Le Couer at L'Elephant

Post edited at 14:12
Dandan82 - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to AJM:

There was an IT issue at work meaning I couldn't get anything worthwhile done so I went for an early visit to The Project to get this lattice test out of the way.

Turns out the conditioning room is considerably bigger than I thought, and pretty well kitted out with space for more stuff too. Highlights include a full set of dumbells and hundreds of free weights, 2 squat racks, a whole host of resistance machines, and best of all, the lattice board has a room to itself! Very impressed, I think it will definitely be worth the 4 quid top up as aside from cardio machines it's pretty much a fully equipped gym.

guy127917 - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to Tom Green:

Nice one! How accessible is the skiing in Oslo? Do you reckon it's worth it for a 3 day trip [if you are not going for business]?

Tom Green on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Super accessible... train for twenty mins from city centre, then ten min walk to the vinterpark. Norwegian public transport seemed ruthlessly efficient!

I think the bigger question is whether there’s enough skiing to keep you interested for three days... in the day that I was there I did everything multiple times, although it was a biggish day as you can ski until 10pm under floodlights!

Si dH - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to Tom Green:

I love how you have multiple ED1+s as an STG and Le Coeur as a BHAG.

Nice one on the VI, keep it up.

Tom Green on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Was the fasted run intentional or accidental?

I've never really played about with fed exercise vs fasted... what are the main benefits of fasted (other than mentally getting used to pushing on when you're running low)

Tom Green on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Yep... pretty sobering! Steve and Scott don't really talk about the impact of faff on the programme!

I'm still mulling over the progression of the time input through the programme... Obviously, the high hours in the base/specific parts make sense -you get out what you put in. But the low volume of low intensity aerobic stuff in the transition period is tougher for me to get my head around. I worry that I'm actually 'detraining' a bit by just doing low volumes of Z1 and super low volumes of Z2/Z3 so I'm tempted to up the vol a bit. However, I don't want to be that smart arse who tries to improve on the advice and then doesn't see the proper benefit (or worse gets injured).

I know Guy's thoughts, but I'm interested to hear what the other TFTNA folk think!

Powderpuff on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Tuesday: climbed 9 of the v3-5 circuit and bosched off the usual sets of execises.

Thursday: climbed 6 of the competition circuit and worked several more which i couldnt quite bag in one session.I  Really enjoy the variety of trying a different circuit, it's what my body needed too. Felt tired at the end so couldn't manage/be arse with my usual exercises (push ups sits up etc)

Sunday:after a few drinks to celebrate my birthday on Friday (&Saturday), I stil managed to complete a slightly shorter max fingeboard session at home consisting of 4 open handed hangs and 4 half crimped hangs.

 

Overall Im pleased to have squeezed 3 sessions in on my birthday week however I feel my diet could be better more goodness. My elbows and fingers were feeling the strain after Sundays session so I'm taking it ease this week to recover. Having had elbow injuries in the past I probably need to open hand only on the fb board for a few weeks stretch lots and ensure I'm climbing with plenty of momentum and push and pull through my feet. All to ensure I dont develope an injury.

A rest might help me fit in 3 wall sessions next week which would be just what the doctor ordered!!!

I agree guy patience on the fingerboard is always wise!

mrchewy - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Rushing about at the moment trying to get squared up before the trip starts on Wednesday, so I'll be brief and I'm also not gonna post for the next five weeks whilst I'm away. I've a few projects I'd like to clear up in Spain but otherwise it's make new friends, see old friends and climb some rock.

Did the usual physio shizzle all week, less hours on it however.

Oh yeah, fitted the hangboard up in my room too and will start regularly when I'm back. STG ticked.

Robin's Hood Stride and Cratcliffe bouldering on Sunday. Started brightly for me, 5B/C was easy enough and eliminated all footholds on one, had a try on Spinal Slab 7A but then the shoulder tendon gave up after on a 5B and 6B slab, too cold I reckon, so stopped straight away. It's okay today, a little sore, so it's obviously getting itself healed as that would have finished me back in October.

Hope everyone keeps ticking and I'll report back in at the end of Feb.

guy127917 - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to Tom Green:

Intentional- nearly all long runs I've done over the last 12 months have been in fasted state (+ all morning cycle commutes). I just get up, have a glass of water and possibly some BCAA tabs and go straight out. Caffeine would be good but I don't want to run on a stomach full of black coffee! Apparently zero carb protein shake would be ok too and may minimize muscle wastage, but I haven't tried that.

Performance definitely suffers as a result. Given that this is a purely aerobic/z1 workout it's no big deal except it feels like a long slog. I generally take a gel with me in case it gets too henious but I think I've only resorted to that once or twice. 

The benefits are supposedly twofold (all detailed in the bible  

1. Your body gets better at burning fat as opposed to glucose for your low intensity work. This is ideal for alpine climbing for relatively obvious reasons.

2. The adaptations to aerobic stress are actually stronger if you are more glycogen depleted. Fasted workouts should put you in that state. 

The other variable is what you do the night before- you can intensify the fastedness by doing an evening workout, and only consuming protein and little carbs for recovery, then sleep and go. I've only done this 'by accident' and confirm it does make it worse!

Tom Green on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to Bones [:B:

> First week of TFTNA plan went well. To stay in zone 1 and 2 I need to walk at the moment with very minimal jogging. I have decided to power walk to a cafe to work most days to fit in more zone 1 and 2 sessions so have included these in my aerobic activity. It is pretty hard to know what to include and what not to include when the training is walking as I walk all over the place but I am sure it will become clearer as the weeks go on. 

 

Glad as it’s not just me trying to make sense of Z1 stuff! It seems like I should be doing less on my Z1 sessions than I do in the rest of the day in general life!

Tom Green on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to Si dH:

Thanks Si!

was chuffed to get back on form after a few winter fails a week or two ago. 

Le Couer is hard!! The pockets are miles apart! Whereas ED is just walking and then flailing around with axes a bit!

Tyler - on 15 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

>  “all my new year resolutions dropped by the 2nd” I think that’s absolutely standard, maybe even recommended, behaviour

Certainly standard for me as is my next step which is to start another trining plan and pretend to myself I'll see it out for longer than a week. This time I have, via a friend, got access to some hard core Polish team's training plan which I am going to adapt for my own needs. Unfortunately, as seems to be the fashion these days it involves a lot of high volume easy climbing which I don't think I'll be able to do at BUK soot might be dead in the water. 

This week I just did the usual at BUK culminating in a very poor session on Saturday which means I'm taking Moday off as well Sunday. 

Climbthatpitch - on 16 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

4 days a week would be nice

I don't mind the 2point/3point but the Hitler's dog is fairly easy. I might start the lattice training core video they put in YouTube. It looks a lot tougher.

Climbthatpitch - on 16 Jan 2018
In reply to Tom Green:

My thoughts on TFTNA.  

Last year I managed to get my first trip out to the alps. I bought the TFTNA book and tried to follow but to be honest my diet was poor and I really struggled to stay in the z1 workouts.

I did my best to keep at these but I did not follow the strength training very well. 

The 2 people I went with both trained differently. They both trainined at higher HR.

At the alps I kept up with them just about but they did both want to walk faster than me. I did seem to manage to recover just as quick as them tho and I never once felt tired.

So far this year I have followed the z1 and strength a lot more strict than last year. I am keeping my transition phase a 2 weeks longer than I should as I am off away in February and plan to start the max strength when I get back.

I suppose I will know better then if this is working as I plan on retesting the combine. 

Generally I think that as long as you are doing a small amount of z2/3 you are not retraining as your body is getting the quick hit and not losing the adaptation.

Climbthatpitch - on 16 Jan 2018
In reply to Tom Green:

Well done on the vi

 

How did it feel. Have you got a next one in mind  

Tom Green on 16 Jan 2018
In reply to Climbthatpitch:

> My thoughts on TFTNA.  

Thanks Lee, it’s working really well that there are a few of us all hitting the TFTNA programme at roughly the same time!

 

I think I just need faith in the programme, but I may through the occasional good Z3 in to the transition as a treat!

Tom Green on 16 Jan 2018
In reply to Climbthatpitch:

> Well done on the vi

> How did it feel. Have you got a next one in mind  

Thanks mate, was a great route. A good combination of techy and physical, but probably played to my strengths a bit, being more about body position and footwork than just yarding on hooks. 

I think a good test of whether I’m really at VI will be trying some routes with more face climbing. 

Climbthatpitch - on 16 Jan 2018
In reply to Tom Green:

https://www.uphillathlete.com/forums/topic/how-slow-is-too-slow-2/

 

Post over on uphill athlete about how a marathon runner ran x amount of time at an "easy" pace. 

 

Makes a good argument

 

 

the sheep - on 16 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

> the sheep: Sound plan by the… sound of it?

Cheers guy, a solid week in the pool gone by, running was ok. Yet to venture out on the bike, not deliberate, just the normal opportunities haven't arisen yet (its also bloody cold..) Week went as follows;

Monday, inset day so looking after the kids. No exercise

Tuesday, 1km lunchtime swim

Wednesday, 2km swim and a gentle 4km evenung run to test the knee, not too bad

Thursday, 1km swim and 4.5 km run, knee not happy at all

Friday, 1km swim

Saturday, buying new running shoes as i figured my old ones were knackered and contributing to knee pain

Sunday, 6km trail run in new shoes. Knee painful to start off but was able to run through it and was fine by the end  Happy days!

Post edited at 10:38
biscuit - on 16 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Cheers Guy.

Not had chance to read through everyone's this week so I hope you're all going well.

The outcome of me not experiencing pain is I've stopped doing my physio. Resolving to get back on it this week.

No climbing last week I don't think - other than pulling on whilst coaching. That's life.

3 rides done. 2 commutes and a longer easy one on the Sunday. 125km ish done in all. Commuting is still getting faster and the increased calorific intake must have something to do with it as I am recovering much better. However I do feel like I've been having too much to eat and so I've dropped it by 250kcal a day. Even that has put me on 3200 today without including the climbing I've done as well. I've had 2500, it's 7pm and i'm full. Going shopping tomorrow for some calorie dense healthy options.

Si dH - on 16 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Ok full update, lots of nerdy strength benchmarking and fingerboard reflection...

STGs:
- Don't reinjure my finger
- Keep up 1 or 2 sessions per week of shoulder/core training
- Follow 5 week trainingbeta advanced finger training program (started 02/12, so should theoretically finish 15 sessions by 07/01/18.) (Complete!)
- Get finger strength up around 8a+ level on lattice edge. (See below.)

New STGs
January-March 2018:
- weight down to 71.5kg (started at 77.0kg evening of 31/12. Down to 75.1 kg by evening of 14/01.)
- get some time on the new woodie at The Climbing Unit, hopefully tick a 7 on it (no idea yet how sandbaggy it is so this may be very easy or very hard!)

MTGs by April: Tetris, 7B in Font, Eastwood Traverse

LTG: either The Mentalist or Caviar depending on whether family commitments allow for any routes next summer.

M: rest

?T: advanced finger training program week 5 session 3 - the last session of the program before a week's programmed complete rest. 2 arm max hangs on 14mm edge half crimp, ceiling pinches, and 18mm edge front 3 drag.

W-S: rest

S: shoulder TRX workout (low rows, reverse flies, IYWs, 4 sets each)

M: rest

T: rebenchmarking fingerstength tonight to see how I've improved over the 6-7 weeks since I started the training programme. I'm really pleased overall. Total max weight hung for 10 seconds has improved as follows:

14mm edge 85.6kg to 92.1kg (half crimp), 89kg to 96.6kg (chisel)

Pinching the ceiling rafters 85.6kg to 96.6kg

3 finger 18 mm edge 97.3kg to 109.5kg (drag)

35 degree sloper 105.3kg to 113kg (probably slightly more but +37kg is the most my system realistically allows without getting really awkward.)

Middle 2 25mm pocket 86.7 kg to 97.0 kg

Front 2 25mm pocket 80 kg to 80.7 kg (but very much not pushing it, I always feel like a tendon could go at any moment on this grip on the beastmaker. I managed to hang bodyweight with front 2 on the smaller pockets tonight, which is an improvement.)

1-arm bm2000 20 mm edge 65.7kg to 69 kg (rh), 63.4kg to 66.8kg (lh)

And for 5 seconds:

1-arm lattice edge 71.7 kg to 72.1 kg (rh), 69.5 kg to 69.9 kg (lh)

Continued...

????

Si dH - on 16 Jan 2018
In reply to guy127917:

Reflections on training programme and benchmarking (ukc's new limit forced a separate post):

 

I didn't properly benchmark myself for 5 seconds at the start on the bm2000 edge but I was slightly weaker than on the lattice edge (maybe half a kilo) to begin with, then probably slightly stronger by the end.

I seem have got stronger by about 8kg (4kg per arm) for the 10 second hangs on most holds. Interestingly the biggest improvements were not on the holds that I had trained on the most (14mm half crimp and pinches) but on the open handed grips.

This hasn't translated well to 5 second max hangs though, where the improvement is a bit smaller on the bm2000 edge, and very small on the lattice edge. I'm not sure why this is or how much it matters. I suspect maybe I had magic conditions or psyche the night I put my lattice edge up 6 weeks ago! (I'm also not sure if my grip on  the lattice edge is slightly cheating, it is a bit weird.)

However I also wonder if the nature of the training programme led to this: it was almost all with loads just slightly below max, and with a lot of volume (really high, for a max hang protocol - I was fingerboarding for 7-8 hrs per week). Maybe a smaller volume of absolute max hangs would increase peak strength more? Or maybe that real peak 5 second strength is just harder to train in a short period.

I haven't quite made the 8a+ target on the lattice edge that I was after. I've just about scraped it with my right hand (by taking my jacket off!) but am at about 8a strength on my left hand. Moreover those improvements are mostly because I've lost a bit of weight rather than because my absolute strength has improved much (less than half a kilo). The good news though is that the diet is going well and I'm hoping I can lose another 3 kg at least, willpower permitting (I'm sure the current rate of loss will slow a lot). The question then is whether these strength gains turn out to be temporary or how much of them I can keep hold of while losing some more weight... if I can hold on to them then on paper I should be going really well, buy I'll believe that when it happens. I'm hoping that climbing on the woodie a bit will be enough to maintain strength while also doing some occasional grit.

Oh and final reflection...part of me has quite enjoyed doing this training and it fits better with parenting than most alternatives as I'm always at home... but I've really been itching to go climbing more the last 2 weeks or so. I'm not sure if I'd do it like this again. Looking forward to trying out this new woodie now...

Si

Dandan82 - on 17 Jan 2018
In reply to Si dH:

Your Lattice edge scores are really good, what is the bodyweight % needed to hit the 8a+ target? (I assume thats 8A+ boulder?). You're at 96% on the right hand, it can't be much more than that surely?
It sounds like with a bit more weight watching that you will bring that bodyweight % up to the desired level pretty easily.

Could the bigger improvement on the less trained holds be because the less trained holds are your less preferred grips and so there was more scope for improvement on those grips? You know, like the early gains are always the biggest gains so your less preferred grips were able to make faster improvements than your already quite well trained favourite grips?

The high amount of volume almost sounds like the protocol is trying to improve grip endurance rather than absolute max depending on the specifics of the routines, 7-8 hours is a lot of hangboarding! Sounds like a low risk way of doing things though, and the max hang improvements have certainly happened for you so it seems worthwhile. The greatest improvement in max hang I ever got in a short time frame was from doing Chris Webb-Parsons program, short sessions of assisted max 10 and 5 sec hangs on 1 arm on a good crimp edge. 3 times a week, 30 mins per session, it was very easy to squeeze in. A little un-scientific as you assisted by just grabbing something with your other hand (doorframe etc) but it certainly worked, in 6 weeks I went from peeling straight off a med campus rung to being able to hang it easily for 10 seconds (1 hand).

Most importantly, I still find this mind boggling:

>Pinching the ceiling rafters 85.6kg to 96.6kg

I'm sure youve mentioned before that the rafter are not miles apart so I find this crazily impressive!

 

 

Si dH - on 17 Jan 2018
In reply to Dandan82:

Thanks for the feedback Dan.

> Your Lattice edge scores are really good, what is the bodyweight % needed to hit the 8a+ target? (I assume that's 8A+ boulder?). You're at 96% on the right hand, it can't be much more than that surely?

8a+ route, benchmark is holding BW-4kg for 5 seconds, which I just about managed on rh but I'm not quite at with lh. (Note, clothed bodyweight for the fingerboarding was about 76kg.)

> It sounds like with a bit more weight watching that you will bring that bodyweight % up to the desired level pretty easily.

> Could the bigger improvement on the less trained holds be because the less trained holds are your less preferred grips and so there was more scope for improvement on those grips? You know, like the early gains are always the biggest gains so your less preferred grips were able to make faster improvements than your already quite well trained favourite grips?

This makes a lot of sense, but unfortunately isn't true. I did the most training here on the 14mm edge, and that is also a hold I've never trained seriously on before, yet my improvements on some other holds were bigger (note, vast majority of my previous training has been half crimping an 18mm edge, or a 20mm edge, or 3 finger hangs on 30+ mm edge, none of which I was doing here.

I guess if I measured the improvement as a % of starting total hang weight for each specific hold the numbers would look slightly different, but broad conclusions still similar. I'd be really interested to know if others who have done this programme have reacted, but that's quite a big study. There are several possible causes. Tendons get stronger on this programme faster than pulleys? (Maybe the pinching helps this too?)  Training on a small edge does translate well to bigger holds after all? (I've always felt I was a bit weak on really small crimps, so this might be a personal thing.)

> The high amount of volume almost sounds like the protocol is trying to improve grip endurance rather than absolute max depending on the specifics of the routines, 7-8 hours is a lot of hangboarding! Sounds like a low risk way of doing things though, and the max hang improvements have certainly happened for you so it seems worthwhile. The greatest improvement in max hang I ever got in a short time frame was from doing Chris Webb-Parsons program, short sessions of assisted max 10 and 5 sec hangs on 1 arm on a good crimp edge. 3 times a week, 30 mins per session, it was very easy to squeeze in. A little un-scientific as you assisted by just grabbing something with your other hand (doorframe etc) but it certainly worked, in 6 weeks I went from peeling straight off a med campus rung to being able to hang it easily for 10 seconds (1 hand).

Most hangs were either 10 seconds at an added weight (not toal weight) at 80% of my max, or for the one arms, 5 seconds at my 10 second max. Most were a single hang then a rest for 3 mins, but there were also quite a few that were 3 reps with a very short rest, then a longer rest. I often couldn't complete those.

 

> Most importantly, I still find this mind boggling:

> >Pinching the ceiling rafters 85.6kg to 96.6kg

> I'm sure youve mentioned before that the rafter are not miles apart so I find this crazily impressive!

The two rafters I hold are slightly less than shoulder width apart. If I hang a wider set it is easier but knackers my skin and is obviously more about shoulder strength. Note that they are sanded to remove splinters but still have quite good friction. I don't think my pinch strength is particularly good, it was something I wanted to improve on this programme. Interestingly by the way, the pinching like this with hands slightly narrower than shoulders seems to be an elbow aggravator.

Each session took about 2.5 hours to complete including 20 minutes warm up. On a couple of occasions I stopped as it was going to take even longer but I ran out of time! The number of individual hangs (and rests) was what seemed high.

Edit: just had a brainwave. I'll send these results and my theories to the guys who set up the plan at trainingbeta. Then if they are interested and have seen similar (or not) results in others, maybe the aggregation of data could start to become useful.

Post edited at 07:41
Dandan82 - on 10:55 Wed
In reply to Si dH:

> Thanks for the feedback Dan.

> 8a+ route, benchmark is holding BW-4kg for 5 seconds, which I just about managed on rh but I'm not quite at with lh. (Note, clothed bodyweight for the fingerboarding was about 76kg.)

Ok so you will hit this with no further strength increases if you hit your target bodyweight, assuming you can keep the strength! Good news, yes?

> Most hangs were either 10 seconds at an added weight (not toal weight) at 80% of my max, or for the one arms, 5 seconds at my 10 second max. Most were a single hang then a rest for 3 mins, but there were also quite a few that were 3 reps with a very short rest, then a longer rest. I often couldn't complete those.

Yeah that doesn't look very endurance focussed, i'd expect to see repeaters and stuff like that, I guess it's just a hell of a lot of hangs, well done for getting through it!

> The two rafters I hold are slightly less than shoulder width apart. If I hang a wider set it is easier but knackers my skin and is obviously more about shoulder strength. Note that they are sanded to remove splinters but still have quite good friction. I don't think my pinch strength is particularly good, it was something I wanted to improve on this programme. Interestingly by the way, the pinching like this with hands slightly narrower than shoulders seems to be an elbow aggravator.

I can't help with a bio-mechanical explanation but I can imagine how the narrower spacing might be a potential aggravator, yes. At a guess it isolates the pinching muscles (epicondyles?) much more than a wider spacing, where you can offload some of the effort onto your shoulders. Go careful.

> Edit: just had a brainwave. I'll send these results and my theories to the guys who set up the plan at trainingbeta. Then if they are interested and have seen similar (or not) results in others, maybe the aggregation of data could start to become useful.

Top idea.

 

Eagle River - on 15:59 Wed

General question/hijack

Those of you who've had a Lattice assessment, how useful was it? I'm pretty interested in getting one done because I know what I think my strengths (being light) and weaknesses (everything else) are but I'm a sucker for empirical evidence supporting those assumptions.

If you've had one has it changed the way you train completely?

How well are the training plans set up to cope with laziness/life getting in the way?

 

Tyler - on 16:40 Wed
In reply to Eagle River:

I'm going to BUK this evening, I'll give you an assessment - no charge

AJM - on 16:49 Wed
In reply to Eagle River:

I found that it redefined what I think of as a structured periodisation plan (way more rigor and structure than I had managed when periodising my own training). I also got a different diagnosis from what i had self diagnosed, so from that perspective it was useful. 

In terms of laziness/life: I told Tom how much time I had and he (more than) filled that with things to do.

 I know enough now to do (a lot of) one myself and roughly how to train the weaknesses it would identify, but if I didn't I would consider doing it again as/when I get enough time to train rigourously/frequently enough to make it worthwhile...

Eagle River - on 16:58 Wed
In reply to Tyler:

I went yesterday and I can't do consecutive sessions like you do because I'm aware of my own fragility.

Tyler - on 17:02 Wed
In reply to Eagle River:

In all seriousness I think we both suffer from the same issue - a lack of application. I'm trying to address that this winter and a training partner would be good, even though we are at different levels. 

Eagle River - on 17:10 Wed
In reply to Tyler:

I thought your issue was applying yourself to the point of injury and keep applying?

I certainly have a lack of application but what I think I should be doing != what I can be arsed to do and might != what I need to do to improve.

But I'll totally take up the training partner offer in the meantime and book in an assessment to make the sessions more useful (rather than following Paul around BUK telling people I USED to be stronger than him)

 

Bones [:B - on 06:38 Thu
In reply to Tom Green:

Yeh, you do a lot!! It's odd eh - I am working along the lines that it is going to start getting more time consuming and harder. I already managed to miss a strength session last week (week 1) and it looks like I am going the same way this week so just going with it for now to try to build some training habits. Time will tell.

Just Tintin - on 07:09 Thu
In reply to guy127917:

Thanks Guy! So AWOL right now and have reached the point where most days are a countdown to Colorado (Feb)... Have been reminded by Dan'd post that goals and structure are a clever idea, so here goes:

STG: (this month)

* Maintain some kind of training
* Don't get any fatter

MTG: (end Apr)
* Peak Grit unfinished business 3/6 (or substitutes at at least 7A)
* SW 7a+/7b in a day
* Ski tour another CO 14er

LTG: (This Year)
* More days on rock and snow than last year (rock >85, snow >18)
* Improve sleep and start stretching - wrong side of 30 and all..!
* Peak Grit unfinished business list 
* Consolidate trad E3, lead trad tech 6b
* Complete Nicklist in Morocco 
* Do some winter/alpine/DWS
* Embrace sport climbing and do it properly. Jumping on a 7a because it looks onsightable a couple of times a year does not count. Find something inspiring in high 7s and make the effort to see what my redpoint sport max actually is...

 

Appendix A: The Peak Grit Unfinished Business List

Gorilla Warfare (f7A)

Bad Lip (f7A)

Solitude (f6C)

Emerald Crack (E3 6a)

Monochrome (f7B)

Mark's Roof Original (V6)

BONUS: Suavito (f7B)

mattrm - on 21:27 Fri
In reply to guy127917:

STG - Re-establish exercise 'normality' and loose some weight
MTG - 6c at Navigation, then WFD
LTG - Probably bouldering, bearing in mind Trad will be hard for the next few years...

Weight - 14st 6lbs

M - T - Rest

W - 30 push ups
T - Indoor routes
F - S - Rest

Again a nice weekend pootling around the place doing for short walks and the like.  Having said that we did do about three hours of walking on Sunday, up and down the seafront at Porthcawl.  As seems to be normal Thursday was knackering.  Managed 15 routes.  Must remember to do the wall earlier in the week, when I'm not so tired.

TheFasting on 16:32 Sat
In reply to guy127917:

Hello again guy. I actually did buy my rack now, and it's sitting in the post office. I'm going to pick it up today.

Last week I tried out a new setup for my endurance work, but didn't work out too well. Basically I'm experimenting with how to best get the cardio, usually the issue is that I don't have time to do it.

Monday:

1 hour of box steps (536m vertical), then I just did a max rep pull-up test within 60 seconds as part of my biannual Alpine Combine testing.

Got 21 reps, that's a 4 rep PR since this summer. All I've done in between is the one-arm chin-up progression, which seems to do wonders for regular pull-ups as well.

 

Tuesday:

1 hour of box steps (491m vertical). Legs are sore after last time.

Max rep within 60 seconds push-up test, got 50 reps (however had a 10 degree arm bend left in my elbow. Whatever, it's progress). Last test I think I got around 31 reps. The one-arm push-up training also helping regular push-ups.

 

Saturday:

First time ever skiing in Nordmarka (the northern forest of Oslo). Found a steep night lit trail, and did laps. Only managed 1.5 laps in 1.5 hours, 7.2 km and 297m vertical. But nice to get my bearings in the area.

Nice view too: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd5o0dvjx5F/?taken-by=thefasting

 

Sunday:

Toproped a WI4+ at  Stryken, and did it without really ever getting pumped. I thought maybe my issues with technique were that I swung too high and moved my feet up a bit too high, making me grip the axe too hard when I stood up to get my weight over my feet. Tried keeping the distance between axes to one axe length, and moving my feet high still, but a bit more conservatively. Seems to work so far.

Goals progress:

I found a guy who wants to join me on Bukkeholstraversen. Also in my research found out that there isn't a documented case of anyone doing that traverse in winter online... Cool!

Goalz:

STG (winter season, before 1st of April):- Do my first ice lead climb, then more. Keep toproping in between those.- Climb Siluetten (M3+) in winter- Climb Store Skagastølstind in winter (Andrews renne (M3)- Climb Fabrikkfossen (WI-3) in Rjukan- Do Bukkeholstraversen (about 20 km, 1900m vertical, 18 2000ers, some exposed scrambling) in winter (might not have been done before)MTG (before June):- Climb the North East couloir of Nordre Soleibotntind (750m, 50-60 degrees)- Climb Eilert Sundts Gate (n5-) and Borchgrevinks crack (n5) (might be overambitious, I dunno)- Do a longer trad holiday to Hægefjell or Bohuslän

I can add two BHAG I guess, but these are the most reasonable of them:

- Climb the 6 classic north faces of the Alps

- Climb every Norwegian 2000er in winter (245 of them IIRC. I don't think it's been done before, but that's not the main attraction. It's training for something bigger)

Post edited at 16:33
leon on 17:24 Sat
In reply to guy127917:

Hello guy

So I've been ill and still recovering

Just before I got ill I was finding stuff previously impossible on my wall very doable.  So the 80(?)minutes a week I was doing obviously paid off.

Hopefully I'll get back on it next week.

Cheers

Si dH - on 17:30 Sat
In reply to TheFasting:

Nice BHAGs.

What are the one arm pull-up progressions - just taking some weight off and gradually reducing it?

TheFasting on 20:14 Sat
In reply to Si dH:

Mostly I've made my own variation on the Convict Conditioning programming. 

You can see it here: https://i2.wp.com/www.factorfad.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Convict-Conditioning-Progressions-Wall-Chart.jpg?ssl=1

Also here from step 5 and up:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2tNzbRIcx0 (ignore the weird narration). Followed that up to step 8, then skipped to step 9 because I could do those. Maybe not smart.

Now I don't know if I'm shooting myself in the foot with bad programming or not, but what I'm doing recently:

1 set for each arm where I first try a full one-arm chin-up, then after jump up with the minimal amount of force I need to pull myself all the way, then do as slow of a negative as I can. I do that for as many reps as I can until I basically just can't brake when I go down. Sometimes I try to stop mid-ROM and pull up again, but I can't do that yet (meaning I skipped step 8 of the CC progression... whoops)

1 set for each arm where I do towel assisted one-arm chin-ups. Recently I've instead one a one finger and one-arm pull-up. You can progress the latter by using progressively weaker fingers as you reach rep goals (currently using index finger. When I get to 10 I'll use my ring finger, then little finger). Release the assisting arm at the top and lower as slowly as you can going down. When you can't do that anymore just keep cranking out the assisted pull-ups until you're dead.

Then finish with 1 set AMRAP regular pull-ups.

I seem to progress by doing that, but if it's optimal I don't know. Still can only do the bottom 25% of the one arm chin-up.

EDIT: Lots of other possibilities too, like starting with one arm from horizontal and progressing until you're upright, or using a pulley and taking weight off as you progress etc. I usually go to 10 reps for 2 sets before I go to a harder variation

Post edited at 20:16
Si dH - on 21:27 Sat
In reply to TheFasting:

Thanks, interesting. Fwiw step 9 looks easier than step 8 to me too, but I guess it depends how low you hold the towel. 


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