UKC

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity. UKC fit club is a rich community with posters sharing their goals, noting successes and failures and offering support to those struggling to maintain motivation. Anyone interested in starting is very welcome to join, but to get the most of UKC fit club you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits and drive you towards achieving your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.
Link to last week’s thread:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/walls+training/ukc_fit_club_week_962-7840...

Derek Furze: Another strong recovery week shows that you are on the right path. I am also pretty sure this week that the first time you did roped climbing since the accident, which is a big milestone. I hope your recovery continue to goes well as i am also pretty sure that you will smash your park pb soon once you are able to run without any break due to shoulder pain.

Exile: I can't remember that you did a lot of running in the last month, so 4 consecutive running days is quite a lot.  I hope you recovered well from that and did not feel too tired, as i pretty sure that i would had severe DOMS after just two back to back running days.

Ian Parnell: I am not a big fan of feet on campusing. Yes, it can get you pumped out of your mind, but you don't learn to keep your technique when tired which is maybe even more important than getting lactate tolerance. If you are targeting high end power endurance i can recommend one exercise. Choose 3-4 boulders that you have done already but are above your flash level but that you have done before. Then try to repeat them 3-4 tries with as little rest between tries as possible. I only did that 2-3 times but believe me, this is really strenous and it also adds a nice mental challenge. Because unlike 4x4, if you fail you need to do it once more which add a nice element of pressure.

biscuit: Looks like an awesome week with a lot of trad mileage. I can totally relate to your experience Surform. Sometimes it is easy to underestimate certain routes and then it is hard to get into right headspace in my opinion, once you have notice that the route requires to be taken seriously. At least you learned a lesson from this experience, which might be more valuable than if you would have cruised the route.

Alan Little: 1500m of vert with 900m of vertical via ferrata up to D/E sounds like a tough day out in the mountain and definitely shows some good fitness. It has been a while since a last did any via ferrata, but as far i can remember the difficulty scale is a little bit misleading. In the end it only grades the hardest section and not the cumulative difficulty which can lead to some big differences between two via ferratas of similar grade.

Ross Barker: Building a bigger base absolutely makes sense, especially if you don't have any 8a project close to your home that you are motivated for. Please continue to be careful with your finger and take the necessary rest when needed.

Somerset swede basher: Looks like an awesome week in Font, with a lot of mileage and an occasional harder ascent. I hope the weather stayed good and that you had another awesome week.

Si dH: Good job on getting Watchtower (7b) and The apprentice (7a+) done really quickly. There is also no need to be too humble about, maybe you are just in great shape and hence they felt relatively easy.

Btphonehome: A brilliant week with a lot trad mileage. Having a training week after that is probably not too bad to stay in peak shape and i hope that it wasn't the last week with good conditions in the Lakes.

mattrm: I would not be too negative about your climbing this week. It has been a while since you done some sport climbing, so you can't expect to be at your peak and what really counts is that you went out and got some mileage in. I hope your niggles will improve soon and that you manage to keep a positive mindset.

ExBristolian: Great to see you back. I hope you had a good time during your holiday and also managed to recover a little bit for the next training block.

Tom Green: I would not to worried about the less than desired results on the fingerboard. In the end you felt strong at the wall, and it is that the thing that counts and that we train for?
planetmarshall: Doings some sport climbing around your max onsight level is probably a good preparation for improving your max trad grades. In the end you learn how climbing around and above your limits feels and it is also a great way to build strength and power endurance. 

Small Step: I hope you recovered well during this week. Taking an easier week when you are feeling tired is definitely the right call, so i hope it had paid off during this week.

AJM: I can fully understand that your week was a little bit unstructured, but as you said if will get better and having the fingerboard set up will be a big milestone.

In reply to Randy:

Mon-Sat: Still feeling sick and did not do anything

Sun: First climbing session since 3 weeks. Still not feeling 100% but much better than the last week. Had a short 1h session and just did a bunch of boulders fom 4a/b up to 6b/6b+. Felt surspringly strong and for a 3 week break i was climbing technically quite well. Skin was as expected not up to mark, felt trashed after 20 minutes and in the end limited the session time to 1h.

In reply to Randy:

Thanks again for the stats again Randy. I have done a lot of running over the years so after a couple of protesting days from my legs (more joint stiffness than DOMs) they tend to kick back in. I felt ok running this week. 

I'm glad you are back to climbing, hopefully over your illness. 

Training / aims:

Spring / Summer 2025 climbing aims:

Weight - keep to daily 78.something kg X

Keep to training programme and climbing through what will be a full on work year ✓

Winter climb when available ✓

Redpoint 7b (Straight Tach, Millside Scar) ✓

Headpoint E6 6b (Exequy, Red Wall, Trowbarrow) ✓

Onsighting harder mountain E2s (eg Equus ✓ Astra ✓ Tumbleweed Connection, Fast Burn ✓)

*Maybe E3s (Cruel Sister, Paladin, Air on a Bow String) & E4s that suit me (One Step Beyond, Malice in Wonderland)

*Maybe Needle and Citadel (Shelterstone) in a day as Comici prep? X

*Big Alpine rock route – 12 to 24hr cardio & climbing effort – Cassin / Comici? X

*Aspirational goals

Longer term climbing aims: 

Regularly have adventures in great places with good friends & family ✓

Continue Alpine route progression to complete more big classic alpine rock routes.

Continue British winter climbing ✓

Continue climbing Hard Rock type routes outside the Lakes.

Keep Head/Red Point grade in 7s ✓ and E5s ✓

Onsight up to at least E2 ✓ & V ✓ (winter) each year.

Improve while not getting injured 

M - 25.8.25 -

W -?

am - Climbing @ Giggleswick Quarry. Led Bobs Leaky Boots, 6a+** then RPed Teenage Wasteland, 7a+***.

T - 26.8.25 - 

W - 80.0kg

am - 40min back, shoulder and finger antag'

pm - 30min Scar run 

W - 27.8.25 -

W - 79.3kg

am - 40min back, shoulder and finger antag

T - 28.8.25 -

W - 79.2kg

am - 40min back, shoulder and finger antag

am - Climbing @ Kendal.

Warm up including 3x20mm +10kg hangs (10/9/8secs) & 3x3 shoulder shrugs. 

1hr 25min bouldering up to V5. Close on a V6. 

Weights B

Internal shoulder rotations - 12.5kgx5=

External shoulder rotations - 12.5kgx5 =

Weighted pull ups. - 3x2 PUs+15kg. 

Bench press with bars x9+40kg x6+50kg  x3+60kg 

A. Deadlift  4x3 60/70/80/90kg 

B. Bent over one arm row 3x30kg/30kg/30kg 

6x L sit progressions

F - 29.8.25 -

W - ?kg

No training 

S - 30.8.25 - 

W - 79.7kg

P - 80g

F&V - 5

am - 1hr Brunt Knott run

am - 1hr 30min Scar walk

S - 31.8.25 - 

W - ?

am - Climbing @ Lancaster . 2hrs. Warm up including shrugs then bouldering up to V6

Reflections. An ok week.

Good to lead Teenage Wasteland on Monday. 

An interesting session today. I took a different approach to normal - instead of trying V4s and V5s, usually flashing them, and if I haven't got them in three goes walking away, I decided to try harder. I basically camped out below a V6 until I got it - took more rest than normal, tried it in sections and then put it together. I think this is the way forward for some sessions to help change things up.

Weights up but this will come back in line as I get into the new term and eating routine. 

In reply to Randy:

Request to the fit club massive - tell me about your experiences with creatine (I'm considering using it for my winter training block.) If you've used it did it make any difference? 

In reply to Exile:

I have been using for more than 3 years and so far had a very positive experience. Did not have any noticeable weight gains and i felt some significant improvements in upper body strength in the first 2-3 months. E.g. i went from 5-6s one arm lockoffs to comfortably 10s+ despite not training much pullups when i first started taking it. Regarding recovery i felt it had some positive effect but not a dramatic one.

In reply to Randy: Thanks for the stats glad to hear you’re back climbing. Oddly I’ve often found after a break technically I climb surprisingly well, better?

Mon-Thurs. Nothing. Family holiday in Cornwall. Long drive for just 3 nights but enjoyable as my youngest was on great form.

Fri. Windy Knoll Cave. Re-acquainted myself with Twisting in the Rain (f7A). Initially flummoxed by the crux moves but just as I was about to give up I found a slight shift in body positioning allowed the move to go from impossible to feasible. slapping the hold but not holding it a couple of times. Shredded my skin on the crack moves though.

Sat. Nothing. Final clearance of my parents house drove down Friday night and managed 5 full car loads 2 to charity shop, 2 to tip and 1 to home.

Sunday. Met out with Steve Claw (formally of this parish) at Wintours Leap. Brilliant afternoon surrounded by thunderstorms but with only 2 minor showers. Alternated leads (steve doing the honours on the tough top pitch) of Flyover (E3 6a). Then did the characterful Balls Out (E2 5b) and quality Never Say Goodbye (E2 5c). Love this crag - one of the best in the UK.

Reflection - Very tired today so glad Steve led the hard pitch this afternoon. Need to get in some training this week and try Randy’s power blaster work out!

In reply to Randy:

Thanks Randy, Font was great. No climbing this week but a lot of walking!

Mon and Tues. Disneyland. Lots of time on the feet.

Wed. Travel day. Font to Somerset.

Thurs- Sat. Left the kids with my parents and walked some SW Coast Path with Mrs. Swede. Thursday afternoon and eve Starcross to Babbacombe, Friday on to Brixham and Saturday Morning round to Kingswear ready to get the train back home for lunchtime. 62km in total with two lovely wild camps. Not sure I'm height but it wasn't flat.

Sun. Drive back to Sheffield, unload a fully stacked Berlingo and sort some overdue life admin out after being away for a month.

Normal service should resume next week.

In reply to Randy:

Thanks Randy. Do you take it all year round? 

In reply to Randy:

Thanks Randy. Glad to hear you're back on the wall. There were definitely points in my D/E klettersteig marathon last week where my trusty TX4's were only barely cutting it and I would have been happier in rock shoes. Which (segue!) is what I was wearing on the hill today for the first time in too long, hurrah.

STG: go climbing
MTG (October): Leonidio tufa mileage: half a dozen 6b/c
MTG (November): Kalymnos - tufa 7a
LTG: Be a confident, well rounded low to mid 7's sport climber. For measurable definition see Fit Club 823

M:    Rest day
T:    Bike 1½ hours

W:    Thalkirchen. Non-mileage session trying some slightly harder things. Including flailing on a horrendous 6c sloperfest, and some no more successful but far more enjoyable goes on a nice 7a crimp ladder.

T:    Office: 2x40 storey stairs
F:    Shoulder & knee routine, stretching

S:    Bouldering, Element. I much prefer the routesetting here to Boulderwelt these days; spent most of my session focusing on body tension-y cave stuff, but I also found an actual hard crimpy slab to play with. Not every day you see one of those in a modern bouldering wall (sadly)

S:    Alpspitze. Some actual climbing in my alpine season, hurrah! A bit of a comedy of errors though. First my mate forgot his harness, but declared himself willing to second a five pitch IV+ with the ropes tied round his waist old school stylee. That went fine, up until the point where we confidently set off from the finish of the route in completely the wrong direction, resulting in a mini epic that ended with us abbing into the middle of the via ferrata and descending the rest of the way down that. It all stayed good humoured though, with the end result being an enjoyable (and amusing) day out in a nice place with a friend. 

In reply to Ian Parnell:

I recall reading years ago - I think it may have been in Udo Neumann & Dale Goddard's Performance Rock Climbing, the OG climbing training book - about muscle memory "engrams" that become more efficient during rest periods.

I have no idea if there's any truth in this or if the idea has stood up to the intervening thirty years of sport science research. If indeed I am correctly recalling where I read it. In which case Udo does have some weird ideas, but otoh he coached Jan Hojer and Jule Wurm at the height of their competition careers so clearly at last some of what he was doing must have been right.

In reply to Exile:

I used creatine for a few months about 18-19 years ago. My experience was different to Randy's. I definitely put on some muscle mass (visible difference) but I'm not sure I got any stronger, and after a while I decided it wasn't worth continuing. However, back then I did not know much about training. I just used to do pull-ups, push-ups, sit-ups and a few unstructured hangs. I suspect if it is going to work for you, you need to be training in the right way. Statement of the obvious I suppose. It may also be affected by age, I was only 23-24 at the time so maybe put on muscle more easily.

In reply to Randy:

Thanks Randy. 

My goals:

- to make the most of my half-days out (twice a month weather-permitting)

- get gradually stronger on the my home board until I can repeat most of the 7As fairly quickly again 

- 3 bodyweight hangs on the 10mm edge each week 

- keep up the current diet (~1900 kcal per day + exercise, LTG is back down to ~75kg from a starting weight of about 84.5kg on 13/04)

This week:

M: I had ideas of doing a board session, but restarting my diet post holiday left me feeling very low on energy so decided against it. I did a few fingerboard hangs instead, including 3 x 8 seconds on the 10mm edge.

T: evening board session, trying the same old 7A as last time again, still couldn't quite do it

W: rest

T: evening board session, trying hard on yet another old 7A, I couldn’t do it either, or even get very close. I think they are all sandbags, at least in summer! At least I have lots of projects Then 2x2 pull-ups with bw+30kg.

F: rest (briefly tried out my new bike at lunchtime, the first time I've ridden on nearly 20 years. It's a hybrid although the tyres are slightly skinnier than I expected and basically slick.)

S: morning session at the Hangar while son No.1 was at Rock Club. I did three whites and tried a couple of others. I could feel myself being low on fuel from the diet, one of the problems was very core intensive and a bit of a whole body workout. Short bike ride in the afternoon.

S: 4 mile brisk walk /jog with my youngest on his bike in the morning. Another lesser walk in the afternoon. Bodyweight in evening 76.6 kg.

It has felt like quite a lot of exercise volume this week and my body would definitely benefit from a rest tomorrow I think.

Si

In reply to Randy:

Yes, this week was a lot more like I hope things will be going forwards.

- I commuted to and fro work twice, for about 32km total. Bit of a shock to the system after not having done any real cycling for years, but it'll be good for me. Assuming tolerable weather I'm hoping to make the bike my main way of getting to and fro work whilst there's adequate light.

- I also recce'ed the way to my son's new school, which is about 6-7km loop. Hoping to cycle (or jog perhaps) with him wherever possible.

- I did two good rehab sessions. Shoulder feeling fairly decent

- I rationalised my fingerboards a bit and got a single piece of backing board that has my lattice rung, my campus rung (15mm and 20mm edges) and beastmaker micros (8mm and 10mm) on it. I've then worked out where it needs to go. I just need a beefy enough drill to get it mounted. I think my cordless one may be knackered, or have a knackered battery.

Plans for the week would be more cycle commuting, more rehab, get the fingerboard mounted. Then either some finger boarding or maybe even some climbing.

In reply to Randy:

Good evening everyone, hope you're all doing well.

I'm on a sunny family holiday this week, so should be nice and restful for the fingers!

An okay week from me, feeling decently strong but not really much climbing in.

Last Week:

Avg weight - 76.4kg.

M - Social cave session, didn't actually pull on much but did a couple OAPUs (not consecutively of course) on each side. Hard to gauge whether my chin passed the invisible bar but it felt good. Popped some mint ollies on the grass.

T - Rest.

W - 45m bouldering including a bit of steady MB. 4x7s OA negatives with 1kg in the free hand. Surprisingly negligible! 5x5s 13mm 3FD. Switching up from F3HC, I am not sure the stress on the DIP joints is encouraging adaptations or just aggravating them at this point. 15m car park skate, some duff ollies but had fun.

T - Rest.

F - Stressed rest.

S - Early start travel, then chill and swim.

S - Swim, then hotel gym. Maxed out the lat machine at 90kg like a true climber, then 3x3 muscle ups and ~7s OA lockoffs on a bar.

Next Week:

M - Rest.

T - Climbing/rehab.

W - Rest.

T - Climbing/rehab.

F - Rest.

S, S - Climbing.

Goals:

Enjoy my holiday!

In reply to Randy:

Hi folks. Thanks for the stats, Randy.

Week 35:

Good start, poor finish.

M: Climbing at Carn Mor. Dragon (E1 5b) -great climb, mostly for the last pitch. Packed up camp and slogged out.

T: Climbing at Stac Pollaidh. Jack the Ripper (E1 5b) A fairly chilled 1-route day as knackered from the previous three days at Carn Mor. Fortunately rain in the morning gave an excuse for a leisurely start!

W: Driving. Lots of it.

T: Big work day.

F: Rest -dropped planned session as felt wiped.

S: CARs, Prehab.

S: Rest (actually, non-restful DIY). Dropped planned session as demotivated.

Week 36:

M: CARs, Prehab, Fingers.

T: Climbing.

W: Climbing.

T: Rest.

F: CARs, Prehab, Fingers.

S: Run.

S: CARs, Prehab, Board.

STG (End Sept):

Three E3s

Get on three E4s

LTG (Nov 2025):

40 E-points (TICK! 43)

Onsight E4.

In reply to Randy:

Thanks again Randy.  You're right, things are definitely moving in the right direction, though this wee3k has been a little slow for one reason or another.  Sorry to hear you had another week of ill health and hope things are back to normal soon.

Sun - rest

Mon - 4 km steady run.  Seated front raises 3x10.  Alternate shoulder press 3x12.  Overhead engagement with band 3x15 and 3x6 lat stretch.

Tues - Oak Tree Crag near Penmaenbach as the weather looked unreliable in the hills.  As it was we got a sharp shower, but the place dries quickly.  First time on bolts since the accident, so a suitably easy crag, which worked well for both of us.  Crag ticked - most things surprisingly pleasant.  Then nipped to the adjacent buttress of the two-pitch route to finish - nine routes in total.

Wed - guest arriving, so exactly the same morning routine as Monday, but stepped weights up - felt it, but in a good way.

Rest of week disappeared in a blur of house guest visit, work build-up, packing for weekend and car issues.  Travel south Friday afternoon in courtesy car for house music party / festival.  Great fun with music starting at midday and continuing all night, albeit at a background volume after 2 am.  Really nice event, though some rain through the evening.  Sun came out to dry off tent as ordered.

Reflection: no after effects from the day of sport, though deliberately on 4+/5 standard all day and mostly at a slabby angle.  Inevitably, such routes do have the odd pull or stretch, so a useful workout and a good gentle build-up.  Lapsed a bit with rehab due to end of week chaos, but back on it this week with a bit more intensity.  Aiming to climb again - possibly twice later in the week.  Had intended to snatch parkrun with daughter on Saturday morning, but event preparation took over.  Can't do the next two either, so will have to up the training runs instead.  A fairly busy period upcoming, including work starting back up, so it will be interesting to see how things develop through the month.  Still thinking that gentle progression is the plan throughout Autumn.

In reply to Randy:

Thanks for doing the stats Randy.  Glad you're feeling better.

Weight - 13st 12lbs (wooo losss!)
STG - 6b
MTG - 6c - 34/100 routes/problems this year
LTG - Western Front Direct (7a) at Navigation Quarry

BHAG - F7A boulder somewhere / kickflip

M - Rest
T - Climbing wall with family
W - Rest
T - 15k mtb ride
F - Climbing wall with son
S - Rest
S - 7k and 282m asc run

Running KMs - 7 kms

Probably should have said last week, that I was really happy to have gotten out, onsighted all the sport routes and generally climbed well even tho it was just easy stuff.  My head and climbing have improved so much from where I was at the start of the year.  Anyway, on to this week.

Weirdly I've been to the climbing wall twice with my family, but not climbed either time.  The hand is still not great, all the tendons in the back of the hand are still quite painful, so I'm going to continue to rest it, as the bike ride in the week made things worse, so want to get fully recovered.  I might climb at the end of the week if it keeps progressing like this, but we'll see.

The ribs are basically ok now, which is nice.  It had been getting annoying, but there's no real soreness there any more thankfully.

However the positive thing is to note, that my family are currently all very keen to climb, so once I'm recovered, hopefully I'll be in a position to get the 2-3 climbing sessions at the wall per week, that I've wanted to do for years.  So this could be the best winter training block ever for me.  Which would be amazing.

Cardio was ok, one ride and one run.  So happy to keep on ticking over with that.  Weight has ticked downwards slightly.

In reply to Randy:

I’m afraid this is going to be a long rambling stream of consciousness as I try to summarise my prospects for alpine climbing now my trip to the Valais is ending.

I went out to explore the area and see if I could hack it mentally and physically. The trip didn’t really tell me anything I didn’t already know but the important thing is I’m keen to go back and it has given me the germ of a plan to do that. If the trip is the start of a process then it will have been a great success, if not it’s been a good holiday where I met and climbed with some great people and saw some fantastic places. 

The good

I’m ok at altitude, I went to 4000m on day one and didn’t get a headache or anything (I know this doesn’t mean it will always be like this).

Fitness - considering I’ve done no hill work or running this year my base is not awful but there is a lot of work to do.

Day to day living - this might seem insignificant but I’m lazy and enjoy my creature comforts but I’ve managed 20 days in the van without it turning into a bio hazard. I’ve not resorted to eating out or snacking and, unusually, I’ve not packed up and come home early!

Attitude - I enjoy the mountains and want to do more, I’ve realised I need a slow build up and that I don’t need to do ‘big’ routes for it to be worthwhile.

The bad

Mentality - I overthink everything, when I visualise alpine climbing it’s as though I’m on a crumbling vertical face in the teeth of a storm at the point of collapse. I need to replace that with the reality of it being mostly my pretty chill (but very hard work) and that serious accidents are pretty rare and escape/rescue is the more common outcome if things do turn to shite. 

Alpine starts - my big regret of this trip is that I didn’t do a proper alpine start. I have a mental block preventing me sleeping when I have an early start, this becomes self fulfilling and I end up not sleeping, part of this is because I worry about letting partners down. This happened this time when, with a moderate start in prospect, I got literally zero sleep. As it was I coped well the next day so that is a positive to take away.

Joints etc - Walking downhill is painful and a lot of the stuff I’d like to do involves a descent of 2000 meters but the most I did this trip was about 1100m and that was without any weight in my pack. It remains to be seen if physical training can improve this or if it will just deteriorate my joints quicker. 

The plan

• A day of 1000+ meters of ascent/decent per week
• Get up ridiculously early one day a week 
• Start my alpine season early, if i started the trip as fit as I am now I think I’d be able to achieve some objectives I’m after.
• Do some long days in Scotland
• Have a realistic plan of routes for whichever area I end up in. 
• Find an alpine partner to train and/or climb with.
• Plan for a second night in a hut when a big descent is in prospect. Suck up the cost as there won’t be many of these in my lifetime!

Next week

Pizza, ice cream and gentle walks as Fi is joining me for a holiday. 

In reply to Tyler:

A great read and really very positive stuff.  Glad that it went well.  I think the Alpine starts will come with a few more experiences and a bit of regular training.

In reply to Tyler:

Great reflections!

Sounds like you've found something that's lit a spark Tyler!

I think your positives significantly outweigh the negatives. Being able to cope with altitude and having residual base fitness are massive plus points. I've met ultra race winners who just couldn't cope with altitude and so basically couldn't go to the mountains.

Your points under attitude are the big one - the mountains are somewhere where you want to be. The Alps look great to everyone on a postcard but once your actually in them they can feel overwhelmingly huge and scary. The feeling when you can be in these magic places and manage your emotions, move efficiently, be in control of risk etc - is one of the greatest feelings in climbing.

Of your negatives - I think you're naturally a worrier! In many ways its a good thing, much better to be alert to risks than blase - these are serious places. The trick is to get the right balance, develop your mountain judgement and know when to push on or run away. It's a very hard thing to develop that just needs time in the hills. I think your aim to start slowly and not feel the need to get on hard things is a really good one. Building up a base of positive experiences will set you up well. 

I emphasise about the alpine start issue. I rarely slept more than an hour or two before a big alpine day. I came to accept it. It's amazing what the human body can still do on no sleep, no food etc etc. The two key things that did limit performance were dehydration and temperature either over heating or getting too cold. Oh and partners. If your partner's outlook doesn't tally with yours then its a recipe for a bad day.

With joints - poles are really helpful. Also this is very trainable. Stronger muscles protect joints and reduce impact. The classic training is find a steep hill near you. Load up water bottles in a rucksac for the ascent and then empty them on the summit and descend with poles. Its a great time to practice descent technique - lightness on feet, flow momentum etc. In the Peak as the hills are so small we had to do laps on Win Hill. With your issues with running I'd start small and short with low load and gradually build up. Personally I think 1000m ascent isn't a good place to start. It's too much. Better to do less but ofte and gradually build up resilience. For example start with 20mins of very steep ascent unladen and then prob 8-10min to get back down again. Don't do it on road, but on soft mountain ground to start. As you progress then add water bottles - 1 litre at a time. Or add time. Or add more technical terrain. Don't add more than one variable each session. My thoughts are once you are regularly doing an hour of steep technical ascent, laden, at at fast pace and feel you can flow on the descent - you're trained enough if doing regularly (once a week). Of course the occasional huge day out at normal enjoyable pace will be important too.

Big days in Scotland in winter are amazing. But youre also surrounded by amazing hills in Wales that can easily replicate alpine days. Just hook up with Derek for one of his big hill rehab days! 

In reply to Randy:

Hi Randy,

Good to read you’ve embarked on the training journey for autumn. Hope you stay healthy and it goes well for you….your Frankenjura projects are waiting…

I had a great couple of days in the mountains, which limited training / climbing…

Mon – Thu: hut to hut hiking in the Venediger group / Hohe Tauern National Park; 1. ascent to Essen-Rostock hut, afternoon stroll to Simony Lake; 2. Essen-Rostock hut to Clara hut – terrific tour, a real highlight; 3. Clara hut towards Umbal glacier, stopped after ca. 90 min of walking & chilled at a beautiful greyish-green swirling pool – back to the hut and then afternoon ascent to the Neue Reichenberger hut; 4. descent in mist and rain…

Fri: wall, Thalkirchen, very tired plus early start to the session meant I had to kept it at a ‘ticking over’ session: 8 routes, 7 x 6a to 6b, tried to top rope a 7a, went ok I suppose; 40 min of bouldering afterwards
Sat: tired, lots of stretching and resistance band exercises for upper body
Sun: stretching & mobility followed by 30 min jog

September begins and I’m aiming to get back to some structured stuff in the coming weeks.

Wishing all a good week…

In reply to Tyler:

Nice one! Sounds mega!

And this trip started with a knackered knee... just imagine how good an alps trip you'll have when you go out not broken!

Started writing a long reply to your reflections, but I think Ian has pretty much nailed it.

Maybe use your 1000m vert as a weekly total to begin with (i.e. over 2-3 sessions) and once you're happy your joints can hack it then shift the goal to 1000m vert per sesh.

Despite Andy K's classic "only a fool practices suffering" line, there is definitely some merit to practicing early starts, uncomfortable days out, etc... I think you can become a bit accustomed to these elements, but it also breaks the mystique so stops you worrying about them.

Regarding the constant nagging fear of death, I think it can help to talk about whatever's preying on your mind with your partner. It's easy to try and hide those irrational(?) fears, but then they stay with you all day... whereas a quick 'don't be daft, it's fine' from your partner can break the spell. Or maybe they were thinking the same thing, in which case perhaps your irrational fear is rational and it's time to turn around!

Sign me up for your alpine training... I'll swap you some classic rock enchainments for some help on my north wales E-targets!

In reply to Tyler:

Sounds like a great trip and some sensible reflections. Remember that being still with your eyes closed is almost as good as being asleep. That way you relax and sleep eventually comes. Sleeping next to my partner so that they can wake me up if I fail to helps me sleep too. If I'm meeting them in the morning I always worry that I'll oversleep and leave them without a partner in which case I don't sleep well.

R.e. ascent. Maybe start with 500m twice a week rather than 1000m once. You can then gradually build one of those to larger numbers and keep the other at 500m.

Edit. I always take sticks, even to walk in to local crags if it's more than half and hr or very steep. You're faster uphill and less painful downhill.

In reply to Randy:

The holiday wasn't particularly restful, but fingers and arms weren't stressed by the activities we did do.

Week 35

M – Travelling to Rotterdam, followed by Kilter board session. Managed a good number of 6A to 7C problems and have a couple more 7Cs to go back for.

T – 14hr day

W – 8hr day and travelling home.

T – Lunchtime ride. 31km 63min. A gnat short of 30kph average. Later, overcoming eccentrics with force board, superset with 5x5 55kg bench press and 4x3 pinkie mono assisted OAPUs.

F – Youtube yoga

S – 22km “gravel” ride. A couple of Top10s but no KOMs.

S – Evening board. First time in a while. Surprised myself with completing a 7A+ BM that I’d always struggled with.

p.s. @Tyler - I'm another advocate of poles when carrying a pack and find them super helpful for maintaining balance and pace during snowy/icy walk-ins (Although it's been 10years since I did any of those...)

In reply to Ian Parnell:

Thanks very much for giving such a detailed response and for the encouragement

Unsurprisingly I was thinking the opposite 😂

I’ve certainly bailed too readily in the past. On the other hand I backed off the ascent to a hut (a hut for Christ sake!) yesterday but am completely comfortable with the decision, I’ve never seen terrain like it.

> Building up a base of positive experiences will set you up well. 

This is a good point, now I have more time I’ll be able to go out and not have to jump on my main objectives but bank some wins on easy stuff so the harder stuff is not so pressured.  

This surprises me but is comforting to hear.

This is going to take some will power to test, my natural caution means I’ve not found myself in this sort of situation for a long time.

I use poles religiously, to the point were I worry I’m too reliant on them. I’m just not sure how I’m going to train my legs without knackering what’s left of my cartilage.

Now we are getting to the nub of it. I chose 1000m as in the last week I’ve done 4 walks of ~1000m ascent descent. It’s been over a long period of time but, apart from yesterday, has been pretty continuous. I feel stronger (didn’t use poles at all yesterday as a test), do you think I’ve just been lucky/storing up trouble? Obviously shorter duration is easier for me but I don’t want to be lazy! I suppose the altitude has put quite a break on my pace which may have saved me. 
 

That’s the dream, at the moment I’m descending like a robot

Really? What do I do the other days as I definitely can’t run.

In reply to Tom Green:

Thank you, I may have expected too much given I could barely walk less than a month before leaving but that’s an issue that’s always going to be present  

The idea is early starts aren’t suffering just a case of going to bed earlier, maybe next time you suggest an early start you won’t be met with as much resistance….

This is true although I rarely get too worried whilst n a route, I just need to know there is an out if needed, I’m a commitment phone!

Deal!

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

I did wonder about this after my night with no sleep, I certainly didn’t feel as bad as I should have. Do you know of any studies about this?

In reply to Randy:

Thanks Randy. I am glad you're feeling more like yourself.

I've seen a lot how people feel they are going well after an illness enforced break. Your body (and psyche) has recovered, despite the illness. Imagine how good it'd feel to feel that good all the time? It can be done, we generally just need to do less than we think.

Very kind words. You're right that it's hard to pull it back into serious mode when you've under estimated a route. It tends to spiral off into panic mode more than anything else for me. If this was the first (or even second) time I'd done this your point would be valid. As it is I'm very much guilty of being too blase on a rock type I haven't climbed much on, on a crag I had been told had stiff grading. Hopefully I'll learn the lesson this time....

M – Gym – good session

T – Nothing

W – quick gym

T – 30 mins on auto belays at Depot. 1 x 6a to get going and then they were all 6b or 6b+. Felt good. Tired at the end but never got pumped.

F – Indoor boulder. Got a steep V6 after getting the beta sorted, I am ashamed to think of the beta I was originally trying. We shall never speak of it again.

Tried two more but couldn’t muster up the effort levels and called it when I tweaked my left shoulder on a beefy gaston.

S – 30 min jog in a flat park, Felt very hard, I had to walk the last few mins and felt like I bonked out

S – Kendal wall again. Serious lack of psyche. I was blaming weather (sad to go indoors and very very humid inside). 6b+, 6c+, 7a+ (second go) then an onsight attempt on another 7a+. Close but one of those routes where you don’t know which are for feet/hands until you touch them and I guessed wrong.

Very tired after. I’ve been REALLY careful this time to make sure I don’t over do anything in the run up to going away but Friday to today tells me all I need to know.

The plan was to rest before we go to Ireland on Thursday and that will deffo be happening now.

In reply to Exile:

Basically its the supplement that has the best effect out of any supplement for strength and power AND it doesn't have any side effects. 

You can slowly load on it to avoid water gain, or just load up and the water gain goes after a while anyway, if it happens at all.

In reply to Exile:

Yes as i don't see any need to cycle of it. The only reason that i could think of where it would make sense is if you notice some water induced weight gain that does not reduce over time. In that case it would sense to stop taking it before performance periods in order to loose that water gain though you still pay the price of having slightly reduced power endurance.

In reply to Si dH:

Another possible explanation is that you did not gain any muscle mass but instead the creatine caused some water inflow to your muscle leading to a visible difference. In the end creatine it self does not cause any muscle gains, contrary to a steriod. Instead my understanding is that it allows you to train harder and more frequently, leading to an increased muscle building stimulus which of course only works if do put in the hours and intensity.

In reply to biscuit:

Thanks Andy. What does slowly load look like in terms of quantity and time span?

In reply to Tyler:

Nope. I've never looked for any incase they tell me I'm wrong! Experience tells me it seems to work though.

In reply to Exile:

My climbing partner has been experimenting with it the last couple of months and his recovery was really good while we were in Font last week. I'll ask if he's had any weight gain from water retention. I've been considering trying it this winter too.

As someone who eats (almost) no meat I presume I'm not getting much through my diet naturally.

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Thanks Dom, I appreciate that. 

In reply to Tyler:

I’m just not sure how I’m going to train my legs without knackering what’s left of my cartilage

I was at my fittest for walking uphill with a pack when I was doing a reasonable amount of hilly road cycling. If you go for this stay in the saddle and spin the pedals, rather than get out of the saddle and so use your weight, as much as possible. (Just be careful you don't accidentally become a cyclist - I did!) 

In reply to Tyler:

Hi Tyler, couple of comments on your comments

So it may seem like I'm suggesting something that seems too little at not particularly high frequency. But bear in mind you're someone who did one run and broke. I think just that tells you a lot on how you should train. You probably have a tendency to do too much too soon, as a result you need to start super slowly and very gradually increase load. Also remember you and I aren't our younger selves - we're brittle old fogeys! It's always better to be slightly under trained than over training and most likely broken.

Am I understanding this right? The last week you did 4 days with 1000m of ascent and then 1000m of descent and so you've planned to do your training at 1000m/1000m blocks. Wasn't that your 'performance week' - training shouldn't just be repeating that. Steve House doesn't start a training block doing a day that's similar to one of his Himalayan pushes. 

I'm assuming we are talking about preparing yourself for a similar alpine visit next year. So even if you do just one alpine training session a week that will still be 50 odd training sessions. If they are progressively increasing in intensity and load you will be much fitter next year than you are now. I'm assuming you'll still be rock climbing away throughout the year so you'll have all the load from that. If you want to add in something else more specific, then double check your alpine training sessions aren't taking too much out of you. Within 24 hours you'll want to be feeling no significant DOMs and pretty refreshed. If so I'd add in a strength exercise session targeting the step up muscles and the shock absorbing strength of quads for descending. So box step ups, squats, lunges etc.

Also just to clarify I wouldn't think of these alpine elevation training sessions as 'walks' these can be intense sessions, you should be sweating and panting, really driving through your legs, pushing through poles and not slacking off for the full 20mins (to start). No rest, no breathers except at the 'summit' when emptying out the bottles. 

In reply to Randy:

Yes that's likely I think.

In reply to Exile:

Hi Huw. No personal experience of use but an interesting discussion about Creatine here:

https://latticetraining.com/blog/creatine-for-climbers-game-changer-or-over...

In reply to Tyler:

Great summary and great discussion in the thread. Definitely inspired me to get some steep hill training in this winter.

Enjoy the pizza and ice cream!

In reply to Exile:

https://www.idealnutrition.com.au/creatine/

Aidan is my go to for all things nutrition. Loads of really good free info.

Basically just go on the maintenance dose rather than fully loading up. It can take about a month instead of a week to reach saturation. But the water weight gain is not huge and maxes out as you reach saturation.

In reply to Randy:

Thank you, Randy.

Nice to read you’re back training following your illness, hope your recovery continues this week.

w/c 25.08.25

Monday

AM – Early dart up to Raven Crag (Langdale). Three brilliant pitches on Pluto (HVS 5a) then decided on an early drive back. This was a great route to finish an awesome weekend in Langdale.

PM – 6km dog walk.

Tuesday

AM – 8km dog walk.

PM - Rest

Wednesday

AM – Rest

PM – Little Depot. 12x Blues. 5x5 shoulder shrugs. Pull Set: Pull-Ups: 2x3 reps. Max Pull-Ups: 5x3reps @ 24kg, Bicep Curls 1x8 @ 15kg, 2x6 @ 15kg, Hammer Curls: 3x8 @10, 12.5, 12.5kg, Bent Rows: 3x8 @ 27.5, 30, 30kg, Hip mobility. Circuit board: 6a, 6a, 6b, 6b.

Thursday

AM – 5km dog walk

PM – Little Depot. 5x5 shoulder shrugs. Push Set: External Rotations: 3x8 @ 7.5, 10, 10kg, Lateral Raise: 3x8 @ 7.5, 10, 10kg, Chest Press: 3x8 @ 15kg, Shoulder Press: 3x8 @ 15, 17.5, 17.5kg. 1 min on/1min off: x10 on wood circuit board.

Friday

AM – 6km dog walk.

PM – Little Depot: 15 mins exercise bike. Leg Set: Goblet Squats: 3x8 @ 25kg, Split Squats 3x8 @ 20kg, Calf Raises: 3x20 @ 20kg, Deadlift: 3x8 @ 20kg. Mobility work: RDL’s 3x10 reps, Pancake Reaches 3x10 reps. 1 min on/1min off: x10 on wood circuit board.

Saturday

AM – 5km dog walk before she headed back after her holiday.

PM - Rest

Sunday

AM – Max Hangs: 6x10s @ 10kg. Little Depot: 5x5 shoulder shrugs, 5x5 pull-ups on 33mm edge. Pull Set: Hammer Curls: 3x8 @ 15kg, Bent Row: 3x8 @ 30kg, Bicep Curls: 3x6 @ 15kg. Black problems: 3 sets x6 problems 3min rest between. 2min on/1min off x5 on wood circuit board.

PM - Rest

Summary

It's been great having our mates dog and all the additional km's walking it's involved - but also great to have normal systems resumed and the house back! A great finish to the Langdale weekend on Monday but no more outdoor climbing for the rest of the week. Decent weights/conditioning this week but not loads of climbing as part of the training. Currently focusing on organising the next twelve weeks so I'm ready for Morocco, which will be a balance of training but more importantly keeping on top of trad as weather allows. 

Have a good week all. 

In reply to Tyler:

What a great read! Psyched to see where this takes you.

But I will chuck my 2p in with Ian and Tom re smashing out big days when you get back.

You don't need much to maintain what you have built up.

Spread the load (bike, ergo, rower etc).

Your idea of training to run a marathon is to start by running a half marathon every week. That sounds like it will end badly. Start small and build over time. 

GET TO THE GYM. In capitals as this really could be the biggest low hanging fruit of all if you've never done it before. Get stronger = every step is easier = you can go further + it brings a feeling of confidence and robustness + it supports creaking joints better than anything else we know. 

You don't need to learn to deadlift. The machines in the local council gym will do or I can recommend you a very good (quite cheap) app that will sort you out with a home programme with just a set of dumbbells.

In reply to BTphonehome:

Cheers. Thanks fella. 

In reply to biscuit:

Many thanks Andy. 

In reply to Exile:

Reply was, 'maybe a little extra weight but not enough to make a significant difference'.

In reply to Ian Parnell:

Thanks for sticking with me, this is all valued advice! I suspect that we were at slight cross purposes as my 1000m elevation day was going to be a walk (albeit at a constant pace) rather than hill reps which I think I would struggle to maintain motivation for. I ought to have time to manage longer zone 1/2 sessions rather than what you’ve described above.

im not sure last week counts as a performance week, I was viewing it as start of training and on reflection don’t recall getting DOMS but I am definitely getting the message from everyone that I need to go easy and little and often is what I should be doing. 

In reply to biscuit:

Thanks biscuit, I’d already decide that I was going to the gym this winter but that was for upper body, but I’d assumed anything leg related (squats, deadlifts) would be too stressful on my knees, are you saying that because it’s non impact it may be ok?

In reply to Tyler:

Just to support Biscuit's point somewhat.  I listened to a knee specialist on the radio a while ago and he said that 'almost all' knee issues could be traced back to lack of strength in supporting musculature.  He made an argument that we are built to walk and run all day and now spend a lot of time sat down, so the muscles supporting the joints get weaker and that then strains the tendons etc.

He also said that diagnosis was often really hard because the first thing he would notice is basic weakness, which had to be fixed before anything else could be productively explored.

As with the advice Ian has provided, I'd suggest any leg strengthening would be useful as long as you build up slowly.  FWIW, I noticed that I got tweaks when I started back running, but seem to have stopped them recurring through some leg strengthening exercises.

In reply to Tyler:

That does explain quite a bit that I didn't fully get. I think the key with training is doing something you enjoy (or don't hate!) as then you'll do it. So if you have time for the longer walks then great. I would still try and sprinkle in sections of steep technical terrain as these are the areas which will make the difference in the alpine if you can manage them efficiently. s you get fitter and more confident on this stuff then you can push the pace on the steeper stuff too, it'll make your walks more interesting too. Also some leg strengthening will offer big pay back - if only in terms of injury prevention. Enjoy! all this talk is making me miss the mountains.

In reply to Tyler:

If you think of the often quoted 4 x bodyweight going through your leg when running squatting 1.5 x bodyweight (so 0.75 per leg) is not really much - but would be a very handy weight to hit.

Get in the machines at a decent gym - leg extension, curls, calf raises, leg press/hack squat, thrusters. In and out in an hour. 

No need to be wasting time/energy loading bars up, learning technique and feeling terrified staggering about with 100kgs on your shoulders.