UKC

A mate and myself want to do some walking and maybe lower graded climbs I/II in the cairngorms later in november and are skint so would like to stay in bothys. The cairngorm bothy site is down so was wondering if anyone has any experience of this and are there any bothys near some of the easier routes?

In reply to The Dan with no name: Check out the map for the district and its got plenty. rather than me name everyone.

In reply to The brainn: Make sure it's not an old map though, or if it is, check the bothy still exists before you go.

In reply to fishy1:

Tried the MBA site?

http://www.mountainbothies.org.uk/region.asp?region_id=6

In reply to The Dan with no name: Get onto ukbothies.freeforums.org/index.php website and ask in the Eastern Highlands section. You'll get good advice on all the Cairngorm bothies there (and any other bothies).

In reply to The Dan with no name: I stayed in the corrour bothy in the spring and it was great, I had the place to myself(apart from a weird camper outside who dissapeared when I walked over the bridge and reapeared when I left in the morning) with a fairly new toilet the place is much better than its reputation suggests. take a bag of coal/coke with you and you can have a roaring fire!

In reply to The Dan with no name:

A run down-

Bob Scotts Bothy (derry lodge):
Best bothy in the gorms. open fire spacious and sleeping platform. it isn't really near any of the climbs for i suppose provides reasonable access to coire sputan dearg.

Corrour:
Now with a bathroom- of sorts even with a toilt seat!!! :P really nice though often cold unless you bring in your own fuel. small though i have had 15 folk sleeping in there. Provides access to the brariach massiff and garbh coire.

Hutchieson Memorial hut:
The best location in the caringorms!!!!!!! Crag an' coire etchachan is on your door step and it is an hour/2 hours walk over the hill from coire sputan dearg. It is near shelter stone as well (though not many easy routes there) also within distance of hells lum and stag rocks.

As for the popular northern corries your best bet is just to camp in the car park. Hope that was a help!!!

I love botthies btw!!

tom
xx

In reply to The Dan with no name:

forgot to mention that hutchieson hut although it has a cracking location at the top of the derry is so so so so so so so so cold. no fire. it is really brutal in the bad weather. have fun

In reply to deeview:

Me too. Did you deliberately miss out the others from your list though?

S

In reply to The Dan with no name:
To add to the lists above, theres Gelder Shiel on the North side of Lochnager - no fireplace though if thats an issue for you.
Also Queens bothy on the south side of lochnagar which is handy for the Dubh loch, but I doubt you'll get much easy stuff there (Dubh Loch) in November.
You could always bivvy at shelter stone as well as an extra option - not a bad doss at all in winter (if a bid damp).

Theres a bothy up in Garbh Corrie as well, but its also quite damp and run down (last time I was there, which was quite a while ago!)

Cheers,

Stuart

In reply to StuDoig:

It hasn't improved any!

S

In reply to Slugain Howff:
Not revealing the location of your 'Highland Timeshare' then?

In reply to dek:

Whit!!! and risk having it over run by overbearing German holiday makers -nae chunce.

S

In reply to Slugain Howff:
Quite right!
Is it still 'exclusive' due to its location?

In reply to everyone:

Thanks very much, we've both only ever climbed in Coire an t'Sneachda and Coire an Lochain so will need to get the map out and have a look at some of these places, never stayed in bothies either so quite excited about the trip. If anyone has any suggestions for good multi day excursions into the gorms that would be appreciated.

In reply to Slugain Howff:
no i just think those are the ones with greatest comfort factor/climbing area potential!!!!

bothies are sick!!!!

tom

In reply to The Dan with no name:

good multi day excursions?

well.. the gorms are your oyster. me and a mate have done that kind of thing a fair few times going from bothy to bothy with some cracking days inbetween. just go nuts. include the brariach massiff though it is a cracking walk. done it in summer though i can imagine it would be cracking in winter.

In reply to The Dan with no name: There used to be one at Ryvoan (Bynack Stable?) but not been around there for about 10yrs.

In reply to Sean Kelly:

Ryvoan is still there but Bynack gone.

On the matter of the more esoteric dosses is the Garbh Corrie Hilton particularly difficult to find? Assume we are talking early summer and I have a grid reference.

As to the eponymous timeshare apartment I guess I'll have to keep guessing!

In reply to deeview:


If you like to be kept awake all night by drunk, snoring weegies!

In reply to Horse:

No, you can't miss it in clear weather.

Bear in mind that it will only sleep about 3.

In reply to Removed User:

Cheers, would be mid week and just me but I would go prepared with a plan b.

In reply to Horse:
If you doss at Ryvoan, you can nip down to Glenmore lodge for a Pint and Bar meal.

In reply to The Dan with no name: Remember that the Garbh Choire Refuge, apart from being tiny, is now in a very poor state of repair. It leaks badly and no longer has a door.
As for the poster who mentioned the drunken weegies at Bob Scott's ... can't remember the last time I met a Weegie there, drunk or sober.
As someone mentioned, Bynack Stable is now gone. Ryvoan is still there though and can, if you have a car, be used for climbing in the Northern Corries - just walk out each morning, the the car up, then walk bck at night. Not the greatest of arrangements, but if you ain't got no cash...

In reply to OMR:

I don't think we'll be driving either to be honest.

In reply to The Dan with no name: It's a long walk then - better try one of the other bothies and climb elsewhere: plenty good suggestions above. Have a look in on ukbothies though - a lot of the people who use those bothies most will be on there.

In reply to The Dan with no name:
The only 'climber's bothy' (that which is in close walking proximity to any crag) is the Hutchison Memorial Hut. A cold spartan box indeed, but in a wonderful remote location. Well worth, if you have the motivation, a few nights. And very memorable afterwards.

The only 'others' are the Garbh Coire howf or under the Shelter Stone. Both these make the above seem like a hotel. Again though, amazing and very convenient locations if one is climbing in the Garbh coire or at the head of Loch Avon. Ryvoan, Bob Scott's and Corrour (to an extent) are just too remote from their nearest respective crags to be truly convenient.

At one time there was a bothy in Coire an Lochain - Jean's Hut, and the St Valery shelter - just above the Stag Rocks. Both were removed in the 1970s.

There just ain't a substitute, or better option, for being close to many places than taking your tent. And praying it's up to it!

In reply to OMR:

In a perversely 'joyful' way - the reason why it has "gone" was the weather - and particularly the wind. The remains were, apparently, found a mile or so downwind after some winter gales a few years back!

I remember sheltering here during a summer storm, during the day time, a few years back. Listening to the creaks and watching the panels buffeting and bending in the gale made the subsequent story all the more interesting - and very believable.

Reminds me too of an entry someone made in the Shelter Stone visitor book, back when a book was left for visitors. "It moved" was one forlorn winter time entry...

In reply to IainMunro:

yes this is true... very busy all the time... though i have had some good crack with genuine "hill folk" there in the past... whisky fueled somewhat!!!


T

In reply to paul-1970:

Was delighted a few years back then they replaced the dirt floor with a wood one at the HMH. They've just replaced the porch on Ryvoan.

In reply to Humphrey Jungle:

Worryingly there is chat amongst the MBA fo putting a stove into the Hutchie, quite where People will fit in if they do I don't know! It'd be a shame though as its a quite nice climbers doss in a spartan kind of way. Once theres a few folk in and a stove or two on to brew up its warm enough!

In reply to StuDoig:
Now it isn't THAT small! If the MBA put one of those wee 'closey door' (to use it's non-technical name!) stoves that they tend to put in the bothys now, there'll still be plenty of space for a few bodies on the floor and a couple on the platform. It can only be for the better if they stick a wee one in.

It should be noted that Hutchy is the highest bothy in the country - higher than CIC (if one can call the CIC a bothy). And, as one poster said, it IS cold cold cold in the winter.

In reply to paul-1970:


With a few folk in and decent clothing / sleeping bag its not that bad! Even a small stove is going to project a lot into the room and (on a selfish note) attract more peole to what is already a very small bothy (we've squeezed 5 in but any more would be pretty interesting / friendly) With a total lack of anything to burn as well I suspect that it'll spend most of its lift unlit as a cast iron table....

That said, (though I don't think one is needed or should be installed) I can't say in all honesty that I'd be upset to find it burning away after hauling myself in from Derry in crappy weather! :O)

Anyway, enough of my hijacking the thread....

In reply to paul-1970:

It would be a bit warm in there with a stove, specially if close to it;
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/43509

In reply to sutty:

I've always thought the Hutchie would be a perfect candidate for a ground source heat pump and some under-floor heating. That would of course involve choppering in a small drilling unit and ripping up the new wood flooring but what price do you put on home comforts.

S

In reply to Slugain Howff:

You have a hole in your cheek where your tongue went straight through.;-P

In reply to Slugain Howff:
Hmmm sounds like a project to fill in the time between routes in the evening......

And whilst we have the drilling stuff up there.... <looks furtively up at creagan a choire etchacan>

In reply to paul-1970:

That's ok, we'd probably be mostly walking anyway, as long as we can get some crampon use we'd be happy, would be nice to get in a route along the way but we'll probably only take a small rack.

Although now I'm thinking my sleeping bag is definitely not up to the job and I can't really afford another one.

In reply to dek:

So I'm not the only one too do that

In reply to The Dan with no name: If your sleeping bag isn't up to much carry in some coal. Both Scottie's and Corrour have stoves and even in winter can be brought up to sauna heat. It's not too much to take in even 10k of coal to Scotties, and if you split it up, 5k apiece for Corrour is still well worth the extra effort - especially since you can't augment it with wood like you can at Scottie's

In reply to OMR:

Yeh that is what I was thinking, just to stay in the ones with stoves! Is there anywhere to buy coal in Aviemore? I assume it's proper coal and not BBQ charcoal sort of stuff you need.

In reply to The Dan with no name: Proper coal is best. You can also take those wax-impregnated fire logs, which are cleaner and easier to carry, but don't give you as much heat or last so long. Not sure about where you get coal in Aviemore - usually garages have it - but Bob Scott's is a long way from Aviemore: if you can get to Braemar, it's easier to get in from there, and then it's just a couple hours to Corrour from there.

In reply to OMR:

Thanks for the tips, it's gonna depend where we can get to from Aviemore because that's where the train/national express goes. I think there's reasonable buses there, we got a bus to the ski carpark once when we were staying in Nethy Bridge and our minibus wouldn't start.

In reply to The Dan with no name:

You'll have a blast!! Your alternative route would be to get to Braemar (other side of the hill from Aviemore) via Aberdeen

I'm assuming that despite the fact that you are skint you will do the right thing and part with £20 and join the MBA. For this you will get the warm fuzzy feeling that your money goes directly to the upkeep of the bothies and even more satisfaction in that you will get the grid reference to all the MBA maintained bothies (100+) in the remoter parts of the UK.
http://www.mountainbothies.org.uk/

S

In reply to The Dan with no name: If you're not constrained by returning to a car a good through route might be an option. All trains and most buses also stop at Kingussie so a trip over the Moine Mor from Corrour to Ruigh Aitcheachan in Glen Feshie would be a fine tramp. The walk out to Kingussie can be done on good paths for about half the way, the rest on minor roads. It took me about 3 hours.
Re your sleeping bag. Why no get a fleece liner for it. It's a cheap way of getting another 5 degrees of warmth. If the mercury plummets whilst you're at Hutchies it will also make a good shroud!

In reply to OMR: I spent a week at corrour, there is bog pine around. Plus "dried" peat if you know where to look or dry your own.

In reply to fishy1: Aye, burnt bogwood at Sheilin' o' Mark one weekend and never felt the bothy very warm (certainly not compared to coal). And you put those inverted commas around the word 'dried' for a reason, didn't you.
But I'll grant you, anything that makes a fire will cheer the place up, and Corrour doesn't need a lot of heating these days. The amount of rubbish we've been finding there this last year or so would fuel a fire of reasonable duration anyway.

In reply to Slugain Howff: One of the few places that can make the Hutchie seem like a good idea!

In reply to Slugain Howff:
And don't forget the 'Fords of Avon Hotel'...
http://su-web2.nottingham.ac.uk/~pineappl/pmwiki2/pmwiki.php?n=Main.FordsOf...
Blackest night's sleep anyone could ever have!

In reply to paul-1970:

Fantastic, does it have a door?

In reply to The Dan with no name: Hey, don't knock it - that was the first bothy I ever spent a night in, almost 40 years ago. It had a door four or five years ago and was (marginally) more inviting than the Garbh Choire, but while it might be very welcome as a refuge, it would be one of the last choices as a bothy.

In reply to The Dan with no name: Another picture -
http://www.lochs-of-scotland.co.uk/cairngorms/glen%20avon/refuge.htm
I haven't been by here for about 3 years or so, but it had a door at the time then. It is correctly known as the 'Fords of Avon refuge' - and it definitely is a refuge! A dank, dirty, windowless shed with stones over it to keep it from blowing away. I'd imagine in the winter it gets completely buried.

And it's about 3 miles away from any climbing ground - so not a convenient place to stay for that purpose.

In reply to The Dan with no name:

It had a door when I was last there, two years ago; I've no reason to think the door would have gone since then. I seem to recall that it looked as though people had been dossing in it, too (this was in the summer, though).

In reply to OMR:

I wasn't knocking it, I think it looks fun in a sort of masochistic way!

In reply to The Dan with no name: OMR can be easily offended when it comes to his bothies!

In reply to The Dan with no name:

last time i was at fords or a'an refuge the floor was well er.... a mud bath!

never been to garbh coire "bothy" though would quite like to though.

T

In reply to The Dan with no name: Inshriaich Bothy - not that conveniently located, but decent lodging nontheless
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/268730

In reply to The Dan with no name: Was at El Alamein bothy/basic mountain refuge for the first time last month. Got to be the most bizarrely located of any I've been to. Not much visited for that reason. May be a contender for the highest though.

In reply to Jim Braid:

Surely long gone. Are you referring to the El Alamein bothy on Cairn Gorm that was removed many years ago after the 1971 tragedy?

S?

In reply to Slugain Howff:

That was cetainly the intention, Slug, but they never did get round to it and it's just about still there.

In reply to

Curran and St Valery are long gone of course, Jean's and the Sinclair more recently.

In reply to streapadair:

Thanks for that Mr S. Even on your home patch you can still learn something new.

S

In reply to The Dan with no name:
I'd be wary of climbing 'easy' routes in November. When routes come in with an early snowfall or just a load of hoar, it's the steeper mixed routes you want to climb. Most easier grade I or II routes are gullies. Don't go and climb 'easy' gullies after just a sprinkling of snow. They will be loose and dangerous.
Easy Cairngorm routes that come to mind that could be climbed with just a sprinkling of snow would be Angel's Ridge (I) which is excellent but remote; or in the Northern Corries, Hidden Chimney or The Milky Way, both II/III.
Stay out of gullies early season!

In reply to Slugain Howff:

Still there on 27 Sep 2009. I'll try and upload some photos. I think the only reason it survived is that no one goes there other than those of us who think we know the Cairngorms then find there's a little bit we've never been to.

In reply to Slugain Howff:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/544410

Anybody used the Red House recently? Is it open in stalking season?

In reply to streapadair:

Hmm, might give that one a miss...

In reply to The Dan with no name:

Aye, no danger of carbon monoxide poisoning.

In reply to streapadair:

By the way any updates on what current conditions are like? Have to go early November as my mate is off for a ski season later in the month so we might leave it until later if we're not going to get at least some legitimate (i.e. necessary) walking in crampon use.

In reply to The Dan with no name:

Not looking good for early Nov., warm southerlies for the rest of this week.

In reply to streapadair:

Cheers for the info, wish it was better news.

And most pertinantly, does it still look like this? http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/918116

In reply to Jamie Bankhead: Never knew it was called the Red House but I was past there on 12 Sep 2009. No construction just a bare shell so sort of weather proof and you could overnight there if you weren't fussy. Better than El Alamein but not as palatial as Corrour or Hutchison. Sorry my photos of El Alamein are not up yet but had an email the relevant bit of which is:

"This has been seen by our team of volunteer photo moderators and
referred to the UKC Photo Editor for further checking. This may be
because it is considered inappropriate, or doesn't fit into one of
our categories."

Could be they think it's to do with WWII.

Went for a walk up Broad Cairn today. Very wet.

In reply to The Dan with no name: Most easy routes don't come in to nick early season. Basically you'll be looking to do routes that don't need a build up and are mostly on snowed up rock. Obviously every year is different.

In reply to The Dan with no name:

If you don't already do so, keep an eye on this http://www.phy.hw.ac.uk/resrev/aws/awsgraph.htm , it's the readings from that automatic weather thing near the top of CG that pokes its head out at intervals to sniff the air. It's subject to fairly frequent outages and malfunctions (like now e.g.) but they don't often last very long.

Doesn't measure precipitation though, for that use the rainfall charts on http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/ , and together they can give you a near-realtime handle on what's happening on the tops.

Woops, just checked and it's back on. Not good news though.

In reply to streapadair:

Thanks for that link, but yeh the news does suck

In reply to The Dan with no name: Remember there is that bothy on Jocks RD not sure what it's called. Has a mud floor and wooden frame bed things a right hovel. Its where sadly an Instuctor and kids were killed way back. A black day on the hill that was.

In reply to The brainn:

Davy's Bourach. Called after Davy Glen who was instrumental in building it after the tragedy. Could be difficult to locate in bad conditions. I'll see if I can get a photo up.

In reply to The brainn:

Think you're confusing it with the Cairngorm tragedy (18 y.o. unqualified instructor and 5 Edinburgh schoolkids) which involved (and led to the removal of) the Curran refuge, by the Feith Buidhe between CG and Macdui (Nov.1971). The Jock's Rd tragedy was New Year 1959, 5 members of a Glasgow hiking club got lost in bad weather, some bodies weren't found till spring.

Davie Glen was a great local character, tireless in searching for the bodies, and built the bourach with his own hands as a response.

In reply to streapadair:
Good account of the Jock's Rd incident and Davie Glen's part in the search in "The Black Cloud" by Ian Thomson. Did you know that among his many accomplishments Davie was in later life the Scottish "Diddling"champion? I often blethered with him at Nancy Smith's hostel at Fersit where he spent his retirement.
The weekend of the Cairngorm tragedy I was on the Cobbler- I still remember the gale ripping great chunks of windcrust off the snowpack and hurling them through the air. We encountered a school group near the Narnain boulders with a wee lad developing hypothermia. I bombed down to Succoth farm where the Rescue post was in those days. Among the rescue party was the shepherd from Succoth farm. A real hill-man - big bendy shepherd's boots, an ancient tweed jacket and bunnet, and a half bottle of Bell's in his inside pocket!

In reply to Jim Braid: some of the pics here may be what you are thinking of?
http://www.geograph.org.uk/browse.php?p=699671

In reply to streapadair:

One of the many accounts associated with the 50th anniversary of the 1959 Jock's Road tradgedy.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2009/01/02/newsstory12450782t0.asp

S

In reply to The Dan with no name: Photos of El Alamein and Davy's Bourach now up. Thanks for the link Karl.

In reply to Jim Braid: Jim, where is El Alamein? I've heard of an old bothy that used to exist between Lurchers Crag and the March burn above the Laraig Ghru...Is this it?

In reply to deeview:

Bob Scotts' had a Wood burning stove rather than an open fire when I was there 2 yrs ago.

Nick

In reply to drunken monkey:

No. Its on Cnap Coire na Spreidhe overlooking Strath Nethy at NJ 0158 0539. The one you're thinking of may be the Curran bothy which was beside Lochan Buidhe but was removed after the 1971 tragedy.

In reply to Jim Braid: There was also the St Valerie Refuge, built around the same time as the Alamein. I believe it was somewhere above the Stag Rocks, but not too sure about exact position. I think it was removed at the same time as the Curran.

In reply to The Dan with no name: your be lucky to get much snow but if it does, garbh chorie mor the snow seems to stay here and its got a great bothy with load of great climbs near by we used to go there all the time, its got of lot of low grades climbs in easy reach, and its a great walk in defo worth a visit, probably worth taking a bivi bag to the bothy there's no fire, its dead small sleeps 6 max. have a look on you tube to see the area

In reply to strawb: Hmm. As I'm sure has been mentioned on this thread already, the Garbh Choire Refuge is no longer up to much at all. It's not even nearly watertight and has no door. It is in a lovely area though.

In reply to paul-1970:

I've spent a few nights there and it's been ok, watertight anyway. Faindouran is ok a few km down the river as well. Any one stopped at Corndavon lodge, any good?

In reply to Steve Perry: Never been to Corndavon, but it is no longer an open bothy. Wsa closed several years ago.

In reply to Steve Perry: Used to be good but the estate got fed up with the behaviour of some of the users and boarded it up. Very easy to access on the mountain bike for an alternative way up to Ben Avon.

In reply to Jim Braid:

Aye. Invercauld got pissed off clearing up after the raves and having the threat of litigation hanging over them in the event of an accident. Sad given that Farquharson himself took a keen interest in the renovation of Corndavon as a bothy.

S

In reply to Jim Braid:

Both St Valery and El Alamein were built sometime after the war to commerate the men who had served with the 51st Highland Division. St Valery was where the original 51st Highland Dib went into captivity fighting a rearguard action with the French against the Germans including 7th Panzer Divison commanded by a General Rommel. The 51st was reformed in late 1941 and based around the Moray/Aberdeenshire area. El Alamein was the first major action for the reformed 51st Highland Div in October 1942.

If you find the site of the St Valery refuge you'll find a plaque with the 51st emblem on it. My grandfather served with the division from El Alamein right through to the crossing of the Rhine.

In reply to george mc: One of the photos I put on my photo gallery is a close up of the plaque.

In reply to Jim Braid:

Cheers for that Jim - there is also a plaque at the site of the St Valery refuge - same design.

In reply to george mc:

Meant to add - the 51st Higland Division (their symbol being HD) were known as the highway decorators due to their propensity to cover everything in their divisional symbol.